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Offline soren36  
#1 Posted : 13 May 2008 01:44:25(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
At L - O - N - G last, my CC40108 has arrived - from China (as clearly noted on the box). Let us see if the SDS propulsion can pull her 7 car consist - lead paint and all wink.

She looks fine - as do all her new M* friends.
A Connecticut Yankee
Online RayF  
#2 Posted : 13 May 2008 14:40:49(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Online steventrain  
#3 Posted : 13 May 2008 17:05:00(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 27,284
Location: Northern Ireland
Very good, Pictures please.
Largest Marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/M-tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50, E103, E120/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline dntower85  
#4 Posted : 13 May 2008 17:24:14(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,216
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I wonder where the Chinese marklin factory is? With the bad earth quake in Chongqing, which is a very modern industrial city, I hope the marklin factory was not near there.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail

era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline kbvrod  
#5 Posted : 13 May 2008 19:06:15(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,

I's rather send out my thoughts and prayers to the thousands of people killed then worry about the Maklin factory being damaged,...[V]

Dr Dirt
Offline Hemmerich  
#6 Posted : 13 May 2008 22:28:19(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by soren36
<br />At L - O - N - G last, my CC40108 has arrived - from China (as clearly noted on the box). Let us see if the SDS propulsion can pull her 7 car consist - lead paint and all wink.

Even all 8 Märklin and some more (same, but with different road numbers) TRIX cars are no problem!
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:She looks fine - as do all her new M* friends.

Yes - very indeed! [:p]

And - you can easily identify the "Chinese manufcturing". biggrin

UserPostedImage
Offline TimR  
#7 Posted : 14 May 2008 00:01:35(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Ah...

That is why they are not trumpeting loudly "Made in West Germany" like in the old days...
Guess those stickers meant that they are made in China, Lutz?

I don't mind though so long as quality is up there.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Troy Yang  
#8 Posted : 14 May 2008 01:54:48(UTC)
Troy Yang


Joined: 10/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 329
Location: San Francisco, California
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dntower85
<br />I wonder where the Chinese marklin factory is? With the bad earth quake in Chongqing, which is a very modern industrial city, I hope the marklin factory was not near there.


Mostly likely in the Canton Pearl Delta area which is close to Hong Kong's infrastructure. Chongging is in the mountain inland - kinda like Colorado. Smile
Troy
San Francisco, USA
Marklin HO - all eras and everything.
Offline Hemmerich  
#9 Posted : 14 May 2008 21:45:29(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR
Guess those stickers meant that they are made in China, Lutz?

Surely means shipped from there; if it's that what the U.S. govmt is eager to know. biggrin

I could as well not care less. wink
Offline David Dewar  
#10 Posted : 14 May 2008 21:49:57(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Made in Germany sent to China and shipped to the USA biggrin

As long as you like it and it works then enjoy.

David
Offline Webmaster  
#11 Posted : 14 May 2008 22:03:13(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 9,484
What does the European CE safety mark have to do with China? Certainly not "Chinese Export"....

Ahhh, you mean that other stuff stamped into the mould, m-something... Well, we all know those are made in China nowadays...biggrin

Hal, could you please post a pic of the box note?


As Kevin says, our main concern should be the quake victims... Even if that thought about the M production plant also up in my head, since the province affected is a big export assembly industry area...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline spitzenklasse  
#12 Posted : 14 May 2008 22:39:15(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
That's funny! Never compared it that way.
The French sure had some unique designs in the fifties and sixties. The Citroen DS series for example.
If I wanted french models, this would be one. I wonder why they raked the windshields like a GM a-pillar dog leg like the cars from 1957? It certainly wasn't to reduce wind drag.
Offline nevw  
#13 Posted : 14 May 2008 22:44:03(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
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Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR
Guess those stickers meant that they are made in China, Lutz?

Surely means shipped from there; if it's that what the U.S. govmt is eager to know. biggrin

I could as well not care less. wink


Probably Made in China., as there is no Marking saying Made in Germany.
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#14 Posted : 14 May 2008 23:53:01(UTC)
john black

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Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw
<br />... as there is no marking saying Made in Germany

Well Nev - those markings are long gone. As well as good ol' german quality that made 'em famous ... [xx(]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Offline nevw  
#15 Posted : 15 May 2008 01:01:20(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
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Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
Thanks John,
Had a Look at a lot of my items. nothing new in the past 2.5 years has Made in Germany on them. Older items have so I presume that for the past 3-5 Years M has been manufacturing in other countries in Europe and that C Word Country.

Looking at older M Items and the newer there is a definate drop in Quality.

Impossible to put priesers into dining cars. just not enough room.

I was looking at some HAG and Fleischmann Dining Cars and there is ample room to insert Dining Priesers. Hag quality is superior to M. you have to pay for it but it is worth it.

wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#16 Posted : 15 May 2008 01:13:24(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
biggrin[^]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline soren36  
#17 Posted : 15 May 2008 01:52:52(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Impossible to put priesers into dining cars. just not enough room.


Nev - try the Preiser "Made in China" line. Perhaps more compact Smile
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline john black  
#18 Posted : 15 May 2008 02:12:57(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Yeah. Or try Flash D's. He cut their feet ... [xx(]biggrin
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Online RayF  
#19 Posted : 15 May 2008 19:30:28(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I can only see little red "x"s.

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline soren36  
#20 Posted : 15 May 2008 19:56:03(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
That's weird, Räy (wink) - on my screen they are fine. I'll try again when I get home this evening. Photos are not bad so worth the effort.
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline David Dewar  
#21 Posted : 15 May 2008 20:07:15(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Just red X for me.

David
Online RayF  
#22 Posted : 15 May 2008 20:37:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Looks good! Just peel that little sticker off the box and it's perfect!

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Hemmerich  
#23 Posted : 15 May 2008 20:46:24(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster
Ahhh, you mean that other stuff stamped into the mould, m-something...

Nope! Take another close look - otherwise I'll have to open a new thread in the quiz section. biggrin
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Well, we all know those are made in China wadays...biggrin

Another Nope! The "märklin" mark in the mold simply indicates that it is a Märklin product and could have been assembled at and shipped from any of their worldwide manufacturing locations (currently still nearly 90% of all Märklin products are manufactured and delivered from their own factories in Germany/the EU).
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:...since the province affected is a big export assembly industry area...

Not related to or affecting the current Märklin subcontractors in the PRC.
Offline VT 08.8  
#24 Posted : 15 May 2008 22:01:41(UTC)
VT 08.8


Joined: 11/05/2006(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: France
Very fine, Hal

It was worth waiting for her
Perhaps some pics with the PBA coaches ?

Märc
Regards

Märc
Offline Hemmerich  
#25 Posted : 15 May 2008 22:01:43(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by soren36
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Impossible to put priesers into dining cars. just not enough room.


try the Preiser "Made in China" line. Perhaps more compact Smile

Nothing is impossible for the advanced and informed model railroader. Cool
Preiser indeed offers both, unpainted and painted figure sets with the "correct" size. biggrin

UserPostedImage

PS: I had no problem so far downloading and viewing those pictures. Thanks! wink
Online steventrain  
#26 Posted : 15 May 2008 22:14:50(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 27,284
Location: Northern Ireland
Very nice, Thanks for the pictures soren36.Smile
Largest Marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/M-tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50, E103, E120/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline David Dewar  
#27 Posted : 15 May 2008 23:11:05(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Got pics now Thanks

david
Offline nevw  
#28 Posted : 15 May 2008 23:21:26(UTC)
nevw

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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar
<br />Got pics now Thanks

david

REd Crosses for me
N
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#29 Posted : 15 May 2008 23:27:21(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Same like Nev - red x here, too ...
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline nevw  
#30 Posted : 15 May 2008 23:29:55(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster
Ahhh, you mean that other stuff stamped into the mould, m-something...

Another Nope! The "märklin" mark in the mold simply indicates that it is a Märklin product and could have been assembled at and shipped from any of their worldwide manufacturing locations (currently still nearly 90% of all Märklin products are manufactured and delivered from their own factories in Germany/the EU).
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:...since the province affected is a big export assembly industry area...

Not related to or affecting the current Märklin subcontractors in the PRC.


How can you be so sure of the 90% being made in Europe.
If M is using factories in other low cost countries what % of M products are made outside of Germany. THis would include other EU countries and China.confused
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#31 Posted : 16 May 2008 00:08:18(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Me too won't buy that number (a twenty years back he were right). But today - nope [xx(]
Just propaganda stories, that is. I say 90% China and 10% Germany production biggrin
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline nevw  
#32 Posted : 16 May 2008 02:16:18(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by soren36
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Impossible to put priesers into dining cars. just not enough room.


try the Preiser "Made in China" line. Perhaps more compact Smile

Nothing is impossible for the advanced and informed model railroader. Cool
Preiser indeed offers both, unpainted and painted figure sets with the "correct" size. biggrin

UserPostedImage

PS: I had no problem so far downloading and viewing those pictures. Thanks! wink


Lutz,
Thanks for that information.
I did not know that you could gt 1:100 scale Priesers. Cannot find any in hte stores here so maybe have to look elsewhere.

Have you actually fitted any into the Dining/restaurant cars?

Thanks again.

Nev

Post Scriptum:
I had a look at the Preiser Site and the 1:100 and 1:120 Seated Figures are NOT Suitable for sitting at the tables of the Dining Cars.
Funny seating angles. Unfortunately there is nothing in the 1:100 scale that matches the 10391 Figures

The Seated Figures that you show do not fit into M Dining Car Seats.

Nev
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline soren36  
#33 Posted : 16 May 2008 02:57:50(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
When intending to edit - DON'T DELETE! Silly me ! [B)]

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline kbvrod  
#34 Posted : 16 May 2008 03:54:34(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster
As Kevin says, our main concern should be the quake victims... Even if that thought about the M production plant also up in my head, since the province affected is a big export assembly industry area...


I very much doubt that some care about that,as long as we get our train&toys& things and the Marklin factory wasn't damaged.

Dr [V]
Offline soren36  
#35 Posted : 16 May 2008 04:07:38(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
"Made in China" does not mean "transhipped" through China. It means, by KYOTO, by US and by EU authorities that the last "substantial transformation by manufacturing or processing" of the product took place in that country.

At the risk of boring some readers:

On "Country of Origin" - it seems that some believe this is an American matter of concern, however, the concept actually has its roots in British and German competitive situations in the late 19th century. Its conceptual complexity grew steadily as markets began to perceive that certain products made in certain countries were superior to all others. This, of course, led to an expanding variety of attempts by third parties to "deceive" buyers by labeling products in ways that "suggested" origins other than actuality.

The United States simply seeks to assure compliance with labeling requirements in an attempt to prevent one of many potentially deceptive practices engaged in by unscrupulous manufacturers from all over the globe.

Here are some brief extractions from KYOTO (1974):

FROM THE 1974 KYOTO CONVENTION ON “COUNTRY OF ORIGIN”:

The concept of the origin of goods enters into the implementation of
many measures whose application is the responsibility of the Customs.
The rules applied to determine origin employ two different basic
criteria: the criterion of goods " wholly produced " in a given
country, where only one country enters into consideration in
attributing origin, and the criterion of "substantial transformation",
where two or more countries have taken part in the production of
the goods. The " wholly produced " criterion applies mainly to "
natural " products and to goods made entirely from them, so that goods
containing any parts or materials imported or of undetermined origin
are generally excluded from its field of application. The "substantial
transformation " criterion can be expressed by a number of
different methods of application.

In practice the substantial transformation criterion can be expressed:

- by a rule requiring a change of tariff heading in a specified
nomenclature, with lists of exceptions, and/or

- by a list of manufacturing or processing operations which confer,
or do not confer, upon the goods the origin of the country in which
those operations were carried out, and/or

- by the ad valorem percentage rule, where either the percentage
value of the materials utilized or the percentage of the value added
reaches a specified level.


AND, FURTHER DEFINING “SUBSTANTIAL TRANSFORMATION”:

the term " substantial transformation criterion " (4) means the
criterion according to which origin is determined by regarding as the
country of origin the country in which the last substantial
manufacturing or processing, deemed sufficient to give the commodity
its essential character, has been carried out.

A Connecticut Yankee
Online RayF  
#36 Posted : 16 May 2008 08:59:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
So, according to your first paragraph, the products should be labelled "Made in China" also in the EU, which is not the case.

My conclusion is that the US uses a different criterion for deciding on "Country of origin" labelling. I therefore believe that you are wrong. It is 'de facto' an American matter of concern.
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Troy Yang  
#37 Posted : 16 May 2008 09:11:48(UTC)
Troy Yang


Joined: 10/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 329
Location: San Francisco, California
Does the engine perform well?
Troy
San Francisco, USA
Marklin HO - all eras and everything.
Offline VT 08.8  
#38 Posted : 16 May 2008 09:23:46(UTC)
VT 08.8


Joined: 11/05/2006(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: France
Does this help? (Soren36's pics)

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Regards

Märc
Offline nevw  
#39 Posted : 16 May 2008 10:24:37(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
My 2 cents worth.

If all of the parts are made in China and assembled in China = Made in China
All parts Made in China and assembled in Germany or any other country in the Eu = Made in China Assembled in EU or Germany as the country of final assembly. Does not matter if the design is in G* or USA.
If most of the components are made in China they are made in CHINA and M* cannot claim to be made in Germany [xx(]

In OZ Land we have had a change. If the product was packed in Australia it could be claimed to be Australian Made or Australian Product.

NOW we have truth of packaging for Food. Manufacturers and resellers (Supermarkets) have to display the Country of Origin of the items in the packet. so we have Australian Packed , and product of China.
Bet that would not go over in Germany or the EU
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Online RayF  
#40 Posted : 16 May 2008 11:09:30(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Unfortunately it's a 21st Century world, but we're still thinking in terms of what was appropriate in the 20th century.

In today's "globalised" economies, manufacturing is done wherever it creates more profit for the shareholders. This is a universal phenomenon.

Fifty years ago, you associated particular countries with excellence in manufacturing. This is no longer the case, as manufacturing technology is easily transported from one country to another.

Today, we need to look at the experience of the company designing the new product. In the case of Marklin, I believe it's still professionals sitting in Germany who come up with the ideas, design the products, and then deliver the specifications to the manufacturing plant. Whether that is in Germany, Hungary or China, I believe it's still a German product. The last Madonna CD could quite possibly have been pressed in the Far East. Does that make it oriental music?

OK, coming off my soap-box now, The 39401 does look like a lovely model (Thanks to VT08.8!). Troy make a good point, "Does the engine perform well?" If it looks good, and performs well, what more do we want?

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline nevw  
#41 Posted : 16 May 2008 11:24:36(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
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Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
Ray,
I totally agree with you . But I hate it when People say it is made in Germany when it is not the truth .

If it looks good , is strong and runs well It is OK
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Online RayF  
#42 Posted : 16 May 2008 11:50:02(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
On the boxes I've seen, it doesn't say "Made in Germany", but neither does it say "Made in China". I think nowadays it is actually more accurate to leave it out completely, as Marklin is doing, rather than give the wrong impression.

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline David Dewar  
#43 Posted : 16 May 2008 12:24:03(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Here in the UK all goods have the label of the country where they were made (and I think we are still part of Europe) My view is that items made in China which sell cheaply are usually not worth buying .. and in the case of toys can be dangerous.
I would have to buy my Marklin items from a UK shop to see where they are made but as I buy from Germany then I do not know the country of origin.
There was a time when items made in Japan were considered inferior but now they make some of the best products available. In the years to come maybe China will go the same way.
I would not buy Marklin now just because they are made in Germany as little is made there now which is better than any other country but i buy because i like the models and if they work well then thats OK by me. Same goes for Brawa and HAG although i think HAG may still be made in Switzerland hence the high price and better quality.

David
Offline nevw  
#44 Posted : 16 May 2008 12:36:52(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 11,612
Location: Strathpine QLD
as an old goat I can remember toys and other items that were packaged and sold as Made in England. Made in USA et etc.

Actually they were made in Japan in towns named England, USA etc. This was the really cheap junk that came from Japan in the late 30a early 40s.
Nev
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Online RayF  
#45 Posted : 16 May 2008 12:56:28(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Dave, I've bought loads of Marklin stuff in the last couple of years from UK dealers. None of them have country of origin on them.

I've noticed that, in the place where the boxes used to say "Made in West Germany", and then "Made in Germany", they now have the little symbol with a child and 0 - 3 crossed out.

This is obviously an EU requirement. Maybe the country of origin label is not?

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline john black  
#46 Posted : 16 May 2008 13:02:46(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Agree with you, friends Smile

But besides of the various jurisdictions there is another most valid point.
Why can't they be <u>honest to us</u> and tell us clearly where it's made confusedconfusedconfused

F.E., Daughter-in-Law got this little SUZUKI, and for its name one might think it's made in Japan.
But no - the label on the B-pillar clearly reads "MADE IN HUNGARY BY GENERAL MOTORS ESZTERGOM PLANT".
Well, that's what we call honest customer information Smile

Forget boxes. The only cause we must suspect why M tries to keep its customers in the dark [xx(]
when <u>deleting the country of origin on the loco</u> is they wanna pretend it were still German quality ...


Such is aggravated insult to the IQ of all of us. Didn't work. Now, who's the idiot ... [}:)][}:)][}:)]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
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Offline soren36  
#47 Posted : 16 May 2008 14:16:47(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Ray -

"My conclusion is that the US uses a different criterion for deciding on "Country of origin" labelling. I therefore believe that you are wrong. It is 'de facto' an American matter of concern."

Perhaps we are dealing more with semantics than substance here. The criterion is the same, i.e., "substantial transformation" rules. The American issue is "to label or not to label" (that is the question wink.

And Troy - she runs well and looks good. Personally, I don't care where it's made. In fact, these days, in the US, one is hard pressed to find any manufactured consumer item that is not "Made in China".
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline David Dewar  
#48 Posted : 16 May 2008 16:16:02(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Ray It looks like the dealers in the UK are not showing the origin of the product which they should do but then again being imported in small numbers probably nobody cares. I know that some still sell transformers with the German type two pin plug and not the UK three pin with earth. This is also not legal but again with such low sales I suppose nobody will notice unless there is a fatality.
You are right in saying that if it is good quality it does not matter where it is made but then again I like to think the people making the stuff are being paid a reasonable wage and the paint that is used is suitable and lead free.

David
Online RayF  
#49 Posted : 16 May 2008 16:35:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,713
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
You're right, David, those are the most important things.

When I bought a Starter set from Gaugemaster I was given the option of having the 2 pin plug changed for a 3 pin at the shop. I guess that gets them round the legal obligation.

On the question of the country of origin labelling, I would actually be interested in reading the letter of the law on this, as I'm pretty sure that there would be an EU directive on this which all EU member states have to abide by. In the same way as they have to include the "not suitable for under 3 year olds" label, which they do, they should then not be able to get out of a legal obligation on the country of origin. The fact that they do means to me that the law is not as clear cut as some think it is. Marklin would not be able to put on the market a product with illegal labelling.

Ray
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline David Dewar  
#50 Posted : 16 May 2008 17:11:10(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Hi Ray Gaugemaster are a well organised firm and it is good to see they offered to change the plug. Most manufacturers from Europe etc would have the correct plug fitted when sending goods to the UK but the German model rail manufacturers ( includes Fleischmann) dont bother but seem to get away with it. I am not sure about Roco as anything from them that I bought here had the correct plug but it may have been dealer fitted.
Not completely sure what the European law on labelling is but it may well be different here in the UK (if the currency is different then perhaps many other things are)
I think again that being toy trains - which to date I presume have not killed any children - nobody is really concerned.

David
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