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Offline Collector  
#1 Posted : 31 August 2016 13:26:45(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Hi All,

Have been going through eBay looking for Marklin Locomotives made between 1985 and 2000.

I noticed that the price difference between an analogue, delta and a digital version of a locomotive is not very big. Sometimes as little as 10-20 euros.

So I am wondering is it worth it to get a non-digital version and convert it or should I simply wait until I can find the right old digital model for the right price?


I can imagine that a new decoder has potential advantages to that even a already digital model would need a new decoder.

Anything I need to know/look for to not get into a time consuming nightmare due to e.g. compatibility issues etc?

Any thoughts?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 31 August 2016 14:08:32(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
It is for me.. I buy a Hamo Re460 for A$80. Then add a decoder for A$60 and a new front bogie for $10 - I have a mFx loco for A$150.. Can add a 5-pole motor for another A$40 and get the real smooth runner.. Alternatively, you can get the motor kits and decoders for old deltas and analogues.

If you are talking about sound then the value proposition is not always there - the sound decoders are around A$260 down here.. It gets very close to a good second-hand loco with sound.

Some locos have never appeared in digital (e.g. VT 133) and the only way to run them on the layout is to add a decoder.

Then there is the satisfaction that comes with making something with your own hands - especially when it works correctly.. Blushing

I rarely replace a decoder in an already digital loco - unless it is faulty.. I might replace the armature with a 5 pole unit... The seem to run very well for me - especially when I take the time to clean the wheels on any second hand locos that I buy..
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Collector  
#3 Posted : 31 August 2016 15:42:53(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
It is for me.. I buy a Hamo Re460 for A$80. Then add a decoder for A$60 and a new front bogie for $10 - I have a mFx loco for A$150.. Can add a 5-pole motor for another A$40 and get the real smooth runner.. Alternatively, you can get the motor kits and decoders for old deltas and analogues.

If you are talking about sound then the value proposition is not always there - the sound decoders are around A$260 down here.. It gets very close to a good second-hand loco with sound.

Some locos have never appeared in digital (e.g. VT 133) and the only way to run them on the layout is to add a decoder.

Then there is the satisfaction that comes with making something with your own hands - especially when it works correctly.. Blushing

I rarely replace a decoder in an already digital loco - unless it is faulty.. I might replace the armature with a 5 pole unit... The seem to run very well for me - especially when I take the time to clean the wheels on any second hand locos that I buy..


Hi Adrian,

I think I have seen motor/decoder kits from Marklin for sale/on sale for under 30 euros. So if you buy a 100 euro analogue loco then you end up with a very reasonably priced quality old style loco. The digital version however is not seldom around for 110-120 euros.

With the sound conversion costs quickly seems to go towards 200 euros.

I then saw that e.g. a brand new 39112 which is mfx+ is available for 227 euros ex VAT and I began to wonder if buying old locos and converting them is worth the hassle.


I have never heard a loco with sound on a track because last time I was involved in this hobby all that stuff was not available. It was M-Track and analogue all the way!

Unfortunately I am a LONG way away from the nearest dealer but I am guessing I either need to buy one online and try or plan a trip.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 31 August 2016 16:16:30(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
analog - digital conversions can be priced as Adrian demonstrated but when it comes to sound you may ask more questions about the quality of the sound otherwise you can spend Euro 80.00 and upwards.

I do my digital conversions mainly for sound and aux functions, ball bearings, 5 pole high efficiency motors.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline GlennM  
#5 Posted : 31 August 2016 16:24:49(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
It depends what you want from your locos. Some very early digital models do not have great decoders inside and so are only marginally better than say a delta loco. The older decoders do not have sound, have limited functionality, some lack absolute directional control and some do not allow on/off control of the smoke generator.

The reason to upgrade for me is to overcome these limitations, improve the running characteristics or to digitise an older loco that has never been issued in a digital format.

There are some people on this forum who push the boundaries when updating locos (John and Mortiz being just two), and the result is a unique finished model.

For example here is a wonderful upgrade to an otherwise quite ordinary Kittel railcar





I am not sure that such decisions can be judged purely on a financial basis

BR

Edited by user 31 August 2016 23:07:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline Gregor  
#6 Posted : 31 August 2016 17:02:16(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
...I am not sure that such decisions can be judged purely on a financial basis...

You are completely right. I inherited 28 analog locomotives from my uncle. We spent together many hours building his layout and running trains. I have converted them all to digital, although financially it would have made more sense to replace some of them with other, digital versions.

I never consider the trains as an investment anyway.

Best regards,
Gregor

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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#7 Posted : 31 August 2016 17:20:34(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
It comes down to this for me: I end up running digital stuff MUCH more than analog, for all the convenience and wiring reasons, especially on a carpetbahn setup.

I have a relatively large roster of analogue locomotives that I can't decide what to do with. I don't need the sound, so the answer will likely be a cheap but functional decoder conversion. I'll never get the investment back out of them, but thats ok if I do get the enjoyment I would not have gotten otherwise because they sat on a shelf.

At the moment I don't have a layout, so I'm not going to make the investment as its not relevant. I'll just throw an extra loop or two of track out on the floor to run analogue Love

From a buy one version vs. the other: my advise is just buy the digital one for the extra 10-30 euros. The resale and lack of hassle makes it worthwhile, and unless you are super fussy about running any 37xx series loco onwards runs just fine. (although I would avoid anything with a 6080 or delta decoders)
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline Collector  
#8 Posted : 31 August 2016 17:47:06(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
It comes down to this for me: I end up running digital stuff MUCH more than analog, for all the convenience and wiring reasons, especially on a carpetbahn setup.

I have a relatively large roster of analogue locomotives that I can't decide what to do with. I don't need the sound, so the answer will likely be a cheap but functional decoder conversion. I'll never get the investment back out of them, but thats ok if I do get the enjoyment I would not have gotten otherwise because they sat on a shelf.

At the moment I don't have a layout, so I'm not going to make the investment as its not relevant. I'll just throw an extra loop or two of track out on the floor to run analogue Love

From a buy one version vs. the other: my advise is just buy the digital one for the extra 10-30 euros. The resale and lack of hassle makes it worthwhile, and unless you are super fussy about running any 37xx series loco onwards runs just fine. (although I would avoid anything with a 6080 or delta decoders)


Any particular reason for avoiding the 6080 and delta decoders?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline mario54i  
#9 Posted : 31 August 2016 18:03:38(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Torino,
Once you are used to recent ( say after 2000 ) digital locos you will find 6080 and delta equipped locos unbearable and sooner or later you will leave them in the cupboard.
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Offline nitramretep  
#10 Posted : 31 August 2016 18:42:27(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
I had only analog and was deeply reluctant to switch to digital. How ever I did and will stay digital, analog seems so old! I still like my older analog rolling stock and the older M track, but the mFx rolling stock and locos are just amazing. I can switch 21 turnouts without a single additional piece of wire, that was enough for me to switch.
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Offline ktsolias  
#11 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:10:10(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
First of all conversion is a big satisfaction.

Of course the cost depends to what do you want to do, and what locomotive you are going to convert.

If you want to run a DCM Locomotive in Digital with basic functions (fo, f1, f3) no mFX and no sound and have LED lights as well, you can use 60760 set for less than 40Euro (motor & decoder & Led etc). This cost is Ok even for a 3000 that you have unused.

If you want sound, MFX, and motor, the cost is more than 150 Euro.

In comparison A good new Loco cost at least 300 Euro plus

I am converting at the moment a 3352 Crocodile, a 3009 Br 85, a 3528 Br E 91.
All these locos were the most expensive in the catalog in their time.

I bought the 3352 150 Euro, the 3009 80 Euro the 3528 120 Euro boxed in excellent condition. (there are pictures in marklin-users.net).

I belive that for this level of locos are worthy the 100Euro that is the mean cost for the conversion.

I will post all the conversion process and the cost, and everybody will decide if is worthy.

Any way model railroads are just a Hobby and we spent money for something without any practical value, just for our enjoyment.
The conversion alone is a great procedure!!!!

So go on give live to the old Ladies. Locomotives are to run on the tracks not to stay in sealed boxes!!!!

Thanks
Costas
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Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:19:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I echo the opinions expressed by most on here. I enjoy digital conversions of analogue locos, and also make extensive use of the 60760 decoder kits to transform the performance of Delta and 6080 locos.

I don't give much importance to sound, and only have it on locos that are sound equipped from the factory. I place a lot more importance on good running characteristics in so far as slow speed running and acceleration and braking delay is concerned.

I keep a small collection of analogue locos for the nostalgic appeal, and those will not be converted for now. Everything else is converted to digital.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Collector  
#13 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:26:18(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: nitramretep Go to Quoted Post
I had only analog and was deeply reluctant to switch to digital. How ever I did and will stay digital, analog seems so old! I still like my older analog rolling stock and the older M track, but the mFx rolling stock and locos are just amazing. I can switch 21 turnouts without a single additional piece of wire, that was enough for me to switch.


My last layout was 30 years ago and it was M-Track and obviously analogue.

The wiring spaghetti drove me crazy.

So I was hoping to cut out loads of wiring when going digital too, but somehow it seems you still need a lot of track pieces isolated etc which means still more wires than I had hoped for.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline ktsolias  
#14 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:29:05(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
It comes down to this for me: I end up running digital stuff MUCH more than analog, for all the convenience and wiring reasons, especially on a carpetbahn setup.

I have a relatively large roster of analogue locomotives that I can't decide what to do with. I don't need the sound, so the answer will likely be a cheap but functional decoder conversion. I'll never get the investment back out of them, but thats ok if I do get the enjoyment I would not have gotten otherwise because they sat on a shelf.

At the moment I don't have a layout, so I'm not going to make the investment as its not relevant. I'll just throw an extra loop or two of track out on the floor to run analogue Love

From a buy one version vs. the other: my advise is just buy the digital one for the extra 10-30 euros. The resale and lack of hassle makes it worthwhile, and unless you are super fussy about running any 37xx series loco onwards runs just fine. (although I would avoid anything with a 6080 or delta decoders)


Any particular reason for avoiding the 6080 and delta decoders?


From the point of functionality and of course running quality only the locos with 5 pole motor (or better) and 6090 decoder or newer are acceptable. Better of course the fx -mfx (609xx decoders)
6080, 6081, DELTA, AC motors, 5***** are for the scrap yard. Are just good for collections and for display models.
Costas
Offline ktsolias  
#15 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:32:14(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I echo the opinions expressed by most on here. I enjoy digital conversions of analogue locos, and also make extensive use of the 60760 decoder kits to transform the performance of Delta and 6080 locos.

I don't give much importance to sound, and only have it on locos that are sound equipped from the factory. I place a lot more importance on good running characteristics in so far as slow speed running and acceleration and braking delay is concerned.

I keep a small collection of analogue locos for the nostalgic appeal, and those will not be converted for now. Everything else is converted to digital.


I agree with you Ray and specially for the sound.
Has anybody try to run on a station 4-5 locos with sound on????
Plus the noise of the rails, motors, wagons etc BigGrin BigGrin

Costas
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Offline Collector  
#16 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:35:35(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I echo the opinions expressed by most on here. I enjoy digital conversions of analogue locos, and also make extensive use of the 60760 decoder kits to transform the performance of Delta and 6080 locos.

I don't give much importance to sound, and only have it on locos that are sound equipped from the factory. I place a lot more importance on good running characteristics in so far as slow speed running and acceleration and braking delay is concerned.

I keep a small collection of analogue locos for the nostalgic appeal, and those will not be converted for now. Everything else is converted to digital.


Regarding the running characteristics, I have seen locomotives advertised as keeping a constant speed when they go up and down ramps when they have a certain motor/decoder. The Marklin terminology for this escapes me at the moment. Do you get this as well after you have converted a locomotive with one of those 60760 kits or does that depend on the unit having a specific motor to start with?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline Collector  
#17 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:38:46(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
It comes down to this for me: I end up running digital stuff MUCH more than analog, for all the convenience and wiring reasons, especially on a carpetbahn setup.

I have a relatively large roster of analogue locomotives that I can't decide what to do with. I don't need the sound, so the answer will likely be a cheap but functional decoder conversion. I'll never get the investment back out of them, but thats ok if I do get the enjoyment I would not have gotten otherwise because they sat on a shelf.

At the moment I don't have a layout, so I'm not going to make the investment as its not relevant. I'll just throw an extra loop or two of track out on the floor to run analogue Love

From a buy one version vs. the other: my advise is just buy the digital one for the extra 10-30 euros. The resale and lack of hassle makes it worthwhile, and unless you are super fussy about running any 37xx series loco onwards runs just fine. (although I would avoid anything with a 6080 or delta decoders)


Any particular reason for avoiding the 6080 and delta decoders?


From the point of functionality and of course running quality only the locos with 5 pole motor (or better) and 6090 decoder or newer are acceptable. Better of course the fx -mfx (609xx decoders)
6080, 6081, DELTA, AC motors, 5***** are for the scrap yard. Are just good for collections and for display models.
Costas


Are those 5**** motors not 5 pole?

If you convert an ancient locomotive with a 60760 kit, does the motor then get converted from AC to DC?

Oh boy it looks like I need to do some homework!!
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 31 August 2016 19:40:00(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I echo the opinions expressed by most on here. I enjoy digital conversions of analogue locos, and also make extensive use of the 60760 decoder kits to transform the performance of Delta and 6080 locos.

I don't give much importance to sound, and only have it on locos that are sound equipped from the factory. I place a lot more importance on good running characteristics in so far as slow speed running and acceleration and braking delay is concerned.

I keep a small collection of analogue locos for the nostalgic appeal, and those will not be converted for now. Everything else is converted to digital.


Regarding the running characteristics, I have seen locomotives advertised as keeping a constant speed when they go up and down ramps when they have a certain motor/decoder. The Marklin terminology for this escapes me at the moment. Do you get this as well after you have converted a locomotive with one of those 60760 kits or does that depend on the unit having a specific motor to start with?


This is called load regulation. The 60760 is indeed a load regulated decoder. This decoder comes in a kit which includes a 5 pole motor conversion for DCM motors. You can also use the decoder in conjunction with 60943/60944 5 pole motor kits for SFCM and LFCM motors. It does not work too well with other motors such as 3 pole or can motors, and for these it's best to buy an ESU lokpilot decoder or similar.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Collector  
#19 Posted : 31 August 2016 20:02:31(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


This is called load regulation. The 60760 is indeed a load regulated decoder. This decoder comes in a kit which includes a 5 pole motor conversion for DCM motors. You can also use the decoder in conjunction with 60943/60944 5 pole motor kits for SFCM and LFCM motors. It does not work too well with other motors such as 3 pole or can motors, and for these it's best to buy an ESU lokpilot decoder or similar.


Is there a definitive list somewhere with which Marklin locomotives have which motors inside?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 31 August 2016 20:33:18(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


This is called load regulation. The 60760 is indeed a load regulated decoder. This decoder comes in a kit which includes a 5 pole motor conversion for DCM motors. You can also use the decoder in conjunction with 60943/60944 5 pole motor kits for SFCM and LFCM motors. It does not work too well with other motors such as 3 pole or can motors, and for these it's best to buy an ESU lokpilot decoder or similar.


Is there a definitive list somewhere with which Marklin locomotives have which motors inside?


Helmut Kern's website is very useful for this. It has most Marklin models up to about 2005. Models from after that date will have good decoders anyway.

http://www.hfkern.gmxhome.de/
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Collector  
#21 Posted : 31 August 2016 20:56:09(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


This is called load regulation. The 60760 is indeed a load regulated decoder. This decoder comes in a kit which includes a 5 pole motor conversion for DCM motors. You can also use the decoder in conjunction with 60943/60944 5 pole motor kits for SFCM and LFCM motors. It does not work too well with other motors such as 3 pole or can motors, and for these it's best to buy an ESU lokpilot decoder or similar.


Is there a definitive list somewhere with which Marklin locomotives have which motors inside?


Helmut Kern's website is very useful for this. It has most Marklin models up to about 2005. Models from after that date will have good decoders anyway.

http://www.hfkern.gmxhome.de/


THANK YOU!!
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
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Offline GlennM  
#22 Posted : 31 August 2016 23:15:35(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


This is called load regulation. The 60760 is indeed a load regulated decoder. This decoder comes in a kit which includes a 5 pole motor conversion for DCM motors. You can also use the decoder in conjunction with 60943/60944 5 pole motor kits for SFCM and LFCM motors. It does not work too well with other motors such as 3 pole or can motors, and for these it's best to buy an ESU lokpilot decoder or similar.


Is there a definitive list somewhere with which Marklin locomotives have which motors inside?


Just a quick thought if you buy any loco secondhand, I would just open it up before you plan to do anything, as you will not be the first person to have bought a model that may already have been upgraded in some way and the before different from the original version, I for one have had a few surprises buying secondhand locos.

BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 01 September 2016 05:24:01(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
as you know I do convert locos for people I get introduced to and yes I agree financially it isn't viable, unfortunately many of you aren't aware of the pitfalls when purchasing second hand locos, some dealers claim they are new or hardly used but its a different story when I get them. wheels almost fall off, motor is over oiled, parts missing like buffers and sometimes broken bits. but the buyer is between 2 hard rocks, leaving at it is (analog) isn't an option, throwing it away or using it as a stationary loco isn't a option either and converting it into digital with sound is not cheap, so financially you most probably are worse off but technically you've gained a loco with many different Aux functions and a sound and you should have many years of fun and the conversions I do you couldn't buy off the shelf anyway, especially with steam locos, e.g. smoke generator (BR 78), gear light, led's front & rear, ball bearings on both sides of the armature, cab light, telex coupling and sound. I could be wrong but Märklin I don't think has ever produced a loco with all these Aux functions (not including ball bearings), and if they have you could be looking at least Euro 500 - 600.00.

you may get exited if Märklin brings out a loco with several Auxiliary functions which would contain mainly led's or led circuit boards and doing it yourself would bring the cost down by at least Euro 100.00-150.00.
it is harder for collectors or obsessive buyers who has to have the loco regardless of the price or Aux functions.

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline mike c  
#24 Posted : 01 September 2016 07:13:11(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I have glasses to view my computer monitor and TV, glasses to view my laptop or cell phone. Neither of them allows me to work close up with small objects, making repairs and modifications of my model trains much harder than it was a decade ago. What I have done in a few cases was to obtain a digital model at a reasonable price and then to swap shells with the model that I wanted to convert. In many cases, this simultaneously allowed me to upgrade the model to white LEDs or to a model with sound.

Here are a few examples:

I purchased a Trix 22631 with the intent to convert it to AC digital
When Maerklin released the similar 37446, I was tempted to go for it, but was not pleased with the paint job of the new model.
I managed to find a pair of 37446 at a very good price, as well as a Trix 22631 and 22636 for just over 100 EUR each. I was thus able to swap shells and I now have a SBB Re 482 and a Crossrail 185 in AC with sound and Swiss light changeover. The total cost came out to under 300 EUR per model and I intend to offer the DC (Trix) chassis with 37446 shells for a reasonable price to recover more of my investment.

I managed to find a number of 37342 Re 4/4IIs at a good price and swapped the chassis with other Re 4/4II to have white LEDs and digital instead of yellow LEDs and delta. The Delta chassis and 37342 shells were sold to recover some of the costs. I also swapped the shell of my 37349 with a spare from a red 37344 and I use the digital model for Era IV NPZ trains. I already have enough digital Re 4/4II TEE, so that was beneficial. Currently, the 37349 shell sits on the Delta chassis from my 83434 technology edition, the shell is stored in reserve.

I have also managed to do the same for most of my Re 460s and Ae 6/6s, including replacing the pantographs on many of the Era V models with the grey ones from the 37360.
The same applies to my Re 6/6. I swapped the chassis of my 37320 with one from a 37322 to get full sound and all my models now have the grey pantographs too.

I would love to do the same for my Hag loks at some point in the future.

Regards

Mike C
Offline ktsolias  
#25 Posted : 01 September 2016 23:59:24(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
Hi all
I did some calculations today and I like to share them with you, on the cost of the conversion.
1st case:
3528 E 91
IMG_8132_1_resize.JPG
I paid 120 Euro for this 5***** model
The conversion:
Motor 060941 32.00 Euro
Decoder 060977 (sound) 105.00 Euro
Decoder 060972 (no sound) 42.00 Euro
LED, resistors etc 5.00 Euro

Total cost: 120+32+105+5=262 Euro with sound or 120+32+42+5 Euro=199 no sound
Prices are from my local dealer, you can find cheaper on web shops.

The same model E 91 in the 2016 catalog is 37294 and the price is 383 Euro !!!! near the double !!!!

2nd case:
3611 Wutt C
IMG_08886_1_resize.JPG
I paid 130 Euro for this 6081 based digital Loco with a Faulhaber DC motor
(In 1987 Catalog was the most expensive model 568 DM, in the same catalog 3652 "Crocodile" was 409 DM !!!)

The conversion:
Motor: don't needed
Decoder: 060975 (sound) 105.00 Euro
LED, resistors for cabin Lighting: 1 Euro
Smoke Generator 72270: 26 Euro

Total cost: 130+105+1+26=262 Euro (without sound is only 200 Euro but in my opinion is not recommended for a Loco like the "Beautiful Lady")

In 2016 catalog there is the same Loco 37117 in the BR 18.1 version and with ESCAP motor who is in the same price like Faulhaber, the price is 417 Euro + 26 Smoke Gen = 443 Euro !!!

Plus the satisfaction from the conversion.

I think that the conversions are cost effective.
Marklin may has a lot of problems, but we must recognize that never forgot the old models.
They have motors, decoders and everything you need in up-todate technology to keep all of their models from the last 60+ years to run on computer controlled digital layouts, exactly the same way like the today models.
That's really a very big achievement!!!
Thank you Marklin !!!

Thanks all of you
Costas

Edited by user 02 September 2016 21:48:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Collector  
#26 Posted : 02 September 2016 01:16:55(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Thanks Costas,

That puts some numbers on it specifically that steamer would have been good oldfashined made in germany quality for a very good price as it appears to be in totally mint condition.

I havent seen any deals that well priced on ebay. Did the other bidders sleep?


On the newer one, if you deduct a little bit of the new list price and then take the VAT off the difference between the new and the conversion gets squeezed a bit. Still worth considering though.


Thanks,

Mike
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
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Offline ktsolias  
#27 Posted : 02 September 2016 09:57:41(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Costas,

That puts some numbers on it specifically that steamer would have been good oldfashined made in germany quality for a very good price as it appears to be in totally mint condition.

I havent seen any deals that well priced on ebay. Did the other bidders sleep?


On the newer one, if you deduct a little bit of the new list price and then take the VAT off the difference between the new and the conversion gets squeezed a bit. Still worth considering though.


Thanks,

Mike


Hi MiKe

I got these Locos and ten more from a private sale from Italy.
The prices are closer to Kolls prices not the overpriced e-bay ones that stay there for ever, as most are not in auction but in fixed price.

Most people buy from the e-bay thinking that they have find the big opportunity, but actually they don't know what exactly they get.

After are looking for conversions to be done by other persons or trying to do whithout experience!!!!!
There are hundreds of cases like this in this forum and in other forums as well.

So again my advise to anybody who wants to buy old Locos from the second hand market is: Before you pay find exactly what you are going to buy. Ask for photos of the wheels (how much used is the Loco), and photos with the cover removed (what is inside). That's the only way to know what model is, the modifications in the past etc.

Of course ask for boxes, papers etc. otherwise the price of the item must be very cheep. Look for the price of leerkartons on e-bay to see the 30-70 Euro for a single box!!!

The difficult thing in a conversion from my experience, is not the conversion itself, but what we want and what we can do with a specific loco.
Everything is possible, but in a price in money, tools, experience..... So many times and for the most of us a new model ready to run is a better choice.

Thanks
Costas

Edited by user 02 September 2016 19:53:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Bones  
#28 Posted : 23 December 2016 05:14:16(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Queensland
I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth now

After buying 2 digital loco's one with and one without sound, I am now going to convert at least half of the 14 I already have to digital

I have four that are my favourite ones

1 103
2 194
3 110
4 111

then there is

5 1120
6 V220
Offline icerails  
#29 Posted : 25 December 2016 11:42:55(UTC)
icerails

Australia   
Joined: 22/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: QLD
Yes. Digital conversion is the way to go. It is often much cheaper to buy an older model like a Re460 and convert to digital than it is to buy a current model with a decoder. Those marklin sound kits can be very expensive down here so I rarely use them in my conversions. I find it can be very fiddly fitting the speaker units. Easy work for some, but not for me.
Offline river6109  
#30 Posted : 25 December 2016 15:11:34(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
converting about 200 locos to digital says something in itself but it is the end product your seeking, ok for some and a waste of money for others. however there is a change in technology within the Märklin camp, especially electric locos, more of them come out now with a DC motor and powers all axles, therefore smoother running and less noise, suppose the 36... and 37... series which have the 5 pole motor is worth converting, sound in M♪2rklin locos has also improved 100 %, and another vital point is you can now program your Märklin decoder.

I still buy locos on offer at a heavily reduced price and than convert them to my likings. there are always bargains with train sets , keep the loco and rolling stock and sell the rest.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Collector  
#31 Posted : 11 January 2017 20:39:11(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: icerails Go to Quoted Post
Yes. Digital conversion is the way to go. It is often much cheaper to buy an older model like a Re460 and convert to digital than it is to buy a current model with a decoder. Those marklin sound kits can be very expensive down here so I rarely use them in my conversions. I find it can be very fiddly fitting the speaker units. Easy work for some, but not for me.



The other option is to buy a used one which is already digital. What I have seen so far is that if you have some patience you will find an older digital loco for roughly the same price as the analogue version of the same.

Ok, that will be a digital loco with an old decoder but it should work without having to get the soldering iron out
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline DaleSchultz  
#32 Posted : 11 January 2017 20:55:56(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
some additional thoughts... I find sound decoders overrated. Yes, get one or two for the 'wow' factor but having a room with multiple sound decoders gets tiresome very fast.

They are typically way too loud (and yes volume can sometimes be controlled)
The steamers often have the same inane shoveling sound effect and sometimes it cannot be switched off while leaving other nice sounds on.

You can cut the hassle of finding space for a speaker.
Non-sound decoders are cheaper.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Minok  
#33 Posted : 11 January 2017 21:27:21(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
some additional thoughts... I find sound decoders overrated. Yes, get one or two for the 'wow' factor but having a room with multiple sound decoders gets tiresome very fast.

They are typically way too loud (and yes volume can sometimes be controlled)
The steamers often have the same inane shoveling sound effect and sometimes it cannot be switched off while leaving other nice sounds on.

You can cut the hassle of finding space for a speaker.
Non-sound decoders are cheaper.


I'd agree that having several trains running with sound and having them, say, blow the horn before entering a tunnel, doing station announcements when they are at a station, and having normal running sounds... the train room can quickly sound like a cocktail party gone awry.

The way I see my layout working (if I can get it there) is that the automated locos will not be using sound and I'll only be sounding the ones I'm running manually or the specific train I'm interested in following/working with... thus only one of them, and at a reasonable level.

I already cringe at every US based youtube layout video because that tinny diesel loco sound (as if coming from a paper towel tube) is grating like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline RayF  
#34 Posted : 11 January 2017 23:02:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm glad others here share my opinion on sound locos.

I only rarely run my locos with the sounds on, and when I do I never run more than one with sound at any one time. I find it a quick way of getting a headache!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Rwill  
#35 Posted : 11 January 2017 23:27:17(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm glad others here share my opinion on sound locos.

I only rarely run my locos with the sounds on, and when I do I never run more than one with sound at any one time. I find it a quick way of getting a headache!


I agree totally with you here - influenced perhaps by the fact that I have quite a severe high frequency hearing loss which distorts the sounds that emanate anyway!. I also note the examples of identical models with and without sounds such as 39550 and 39551 result in a 80 euro price difference and the non sound models become end of shelf bargains quicker. I feel the same way about "world of operation" loks which are totally lost on my MS2 and I reckon is another 80 Euro cost. I am often quite happy with a 36xx well maintained lok with it 6080 decoder purring (ok grinding ) round the layout quite happily.
Offline applor  
#36 Posted : 12 January 2017 00:20:15(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Also depends on the actual model.

Older models tend to have less detail (no brakes etc) and shiny metal wheels - I won't run anything without burnished wheels/rods.

In that case there is often negligible difference in price, except buying factory with digital/sound avoids the hassle of doing conversion and programming (which to do right usually means you also need lokprogrammer)

Some models I have regretted buying then going through the conversion process, others I have been quite happy with.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline sjbartels  
#37 Posted : 12 January 2017 07:12:22(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
For me yes, some of the Swiss 460's have some excellent art work and yet are just Delta and run ordinary at best. For the cost of a DIY conversion, I consider it worth it.
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline baggio  
#38 Posted : 14 January 2017 01:50:52(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
For me yes, some of the Swiss 460's have some excellent art work and yet are just Delta and run ordinary at best. For the cost of a DIY conversion, I consider it worth it.


Delta = digital.

As a result, what advantage do you see in upgrading the decoder( unless you add sound)?

Thanks.
Offline applor  
#39 Posted : 14 January 2017 07:09:06(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
For me yes, some of the Swiss 460's have some excellent art work and yet are just Delta and run ordinary at best. For the cost of a DIY conversion, I consider it worth it.


Delta = digital.

As a result, what advantage do you see in upgrading the decoder( unless you add sound)?

Thanks.


Well Delta is not considered to be a proper digital decoder (even though it is) since it has only 5 addresses, no motor regulation or functions - upgrading to a digital decoder is quite an improvement.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline Dave Banks  
#40 Posted : 14 January 2017 08:29:05(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
I haven't read all the above comments but will just add my two cents worth. Anything "Train wise" purchased in Australia / New Zealand is hellishly expensive. Like John I have done heaps of conversions for myself and others. I got a lot of satisfaction doing the job to as near perfection as possible & felt really good at the final outcome / Achievement. Financially it was just way too expensive & just as soon as you have done the conversion, a newer later & possibly cheaper decoder kit comes on the market. So in a nutshell what I have learned in 20 yrs of doing this my suggestion is buy smart & get the loco you really want with all the bell's & whistles at a bargain price on eBay / model auctions & yes you may have to wait for a while for your item to surface.I cannot speak for Europe or USA but we are doing it a little tough down under & one has to be practical & sense able when doing purchases this side of the globe.Sad
D.A.Banks
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Offline H0  
#41 Posted : 14 January 2017 08:29:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Well Delta is not considered to be a proper digital decoder (even though it is) since it has only 5 addresses, no motor regulation or functions - upgrading to a digital decoder is quite an improvement.
Delta is about as good or as bad as the digital decoders of the 6080 generation.
Delta decoders support 80 addresses, but normally only 15 addresses can be used without rewiring.
Like the 6080 decoders (used in 36xx locos) they have no load regulation and no acceleration and braking delay.

36xx locos are fully digital models. But since they have no load regulation, many owners are tempted to upgrade them to more modern decoders with load regulation.

Märklin decoders:
First generation: 6080, 36xx locos, no "fx", no pots, no load regulation, 14 speed steps.
Second generation: 6090, 37xx locos, no "fx", but have load regulation and pots (acceleration and braking delay), 14 speed steps.
Third generation: 6090x: "fx" with DIP switches, no clear number pattern for locos anymore, 27 speed steps.
Fourth generation: programmable "fx" decoders without DIP switches (made by ESU, 28 speed steps)
Fifth generation: programmable "fx" decoders without DIP switches (not made by ESU, 14 speed steps)

Delta matches the first generation. Replacing a Delta decoder with a 6080 decoder is not a big upgrade - it can even be a downgrade as some Delta decoders are better than the 6080.

Märklin 37641 (Dutch State Railways class 6400) last appeared in the 2003/2004 catalogue: no "fx", no load regulation, only 14 speed steps.
Fully digital, but also a digital dinosaur and an upgrade candidate IMHO.
Always take a close look at the product description if you want to avoid such oldies.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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