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Offline mb300e4m  
#1 Posted : 03 July 2016 00:14:27(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Are there any Roco AC experts amongst us?

I recently acquired a Roco 43930 Railcar in original box with all the parts necessary to convert it from 2 rail DC to 3 rail AC so that it can play along nicely with my Marklin AC trains.

I have the spare parts list and user instructions but I do not have any instructions to accomplish the conversion.

Does any member have a copy of said instructions, or know of a source or have the experience to tell me how it is done? The parts that came with it include a center rail pickup and electronic reversing module but no destructions.

Thanks in advance for any help.BigGrin

Peter B.

P6120239.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 03 July 2016 02:14:02(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
In addition to the decoder (digital) or reverse unit (analog) and the slider, Roco AC models also come with the following differences from the DC models:

A) Wheelsets for the AC (Maerklin) which have the profile as set out by Maerklin norms, are uninsulated and may be equipped with traction tires (motor bogie). These wheelsets also have specific spacing that is according to norms set out for operation on 3 rail AC track.

B) The axle contacts on the bogies are connected to each other for common return (ground)

C) Lightbulbs are designed to operate on AC voltage and to tolerate higher voltage than on DC

D) Some Roco models are specifically designed for AC or DC operation. For example, some DC loks have all wheels powered, while the AC version might only have a pair or maybe three of four axles powered. They may also have different bogie undersides for AC and DC, with the AC one having the cutout to accommodate the slider.

Some Roco models came with Parts diagrams that list both the parts for AC (WS) and DC (GS) versions of the same model
Other models came with a specific instruction and parts list for each version. I can tell by the photo that your parts list should list all the parts for the AC version (reference in blue) and the instructions should also cover the AC version. Replace Part 10 with Part 30, 14 and 20 by 34 and 37, 9 by 29 and 1 by 31.
The PC board (12) should be replaced by 42.

AC Parts are 26-37 and 42 -43. You already have 26 and 43 (in the photo).

The parts that you need to convert this model are probably available from APC-Adams in Germany APC Miniaturmodell

Pertaining specifically to this railcar model that you have, I don't know where the reverse unit or decoder was positioned in the OEM AC version.

Model with slider mounted:
http://cdn01.trixum.de/u...52b7f7de7852b7d950a7.jpg
Instruction (part) with AC numbers:
http://cdn01.trixum.de/u...6952748336b6e174d29f.jpg

Here is an auction for an AC version of this model (ending in 12 hours):
http://www.ebay.de/itm/R...Marklin-AC-/351766896570
Here is a buy it now auction for the AC model:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/R...-91-76S3-2-/351651049008

Considering the cost of the parts, it may be worthwhile to bid on the first one if it is less than 100 EUR
I have dealt with Blackjecky before and the transaction went smoothly.

If you get the AC version, you can always sell the DC version to recover some of the money.

If you intend to convert to AC digital, you will need to purchase an ESU or similar decoder. In that case, it might be easier to start with the DC model and upgrade from there. There was NO AC version of the most recent release of this model type.

Should you require more assistance, can you provide the following photos:
1) Underside of railcar showing bogies
2) Photo of railcar interior showing motor, light bulbs, decoder socket (if applicable)

A Maerklin Digital Sound version of this train car was available and can be found here:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...serner-Zug-/122019512220

Regards

Mike C
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 03 July 2016 02:47:48(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
On last afterthought… AFAIR the DC versions of Roco models came with a blue and orange box. The one in your photo is green and orange, which suggests to me that it might originally have been an AC model.

What is the number on the sticker on the side? Is it 43525 (DC) or 43930 (AC)?

At this point, I absolutely need a photo of the underside and a close up of the wheelsets to confirm.
I don't know if this was an AC model that somebody converted to DC or other.
It could be a DC model in an AC box, so as much detail as possible would help.

Have you tested the train car using a DC transformer? If DC it would run. If AC it should short (axles)
If AC, you should be able to test for non insulated axles using a volt meter that measures ohms (resistance).

Post the photos so that I can take a better look.

Thanks

MC
Offline mb300e4m  
#4 Posted : 03 July 2016 17:19:30(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Thanks Mike for both the replies. You have given me a lot to look into, I will take more pictures and will post them.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline mb300e4m  
#5 Posted : 03 July 2016 19:35:47(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Hi Mike,

Here are some pictures.

The box label shows 43930

P7030336.JPG

Here is the underneath view.

P7030335.JPG
P7030332.JPG

It runs on DC and has insulated wheel sets.

Here is a picture of the circuit board.

P7030338.JPG

Would this have come originally with two sets of wheels etc. to allow conversion to AC from DC?

Here is a picture of the parts list and user instructions showing the numbers. The warning label is red not pink. I need a new scanner maybe.

Roco 43930 (1)003.jpg

Thanks for your help Mike.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline loderunner  
#6 Posted : 03 July 2016 23:45:22(UTC)
loderunner

Canada   
Joined: 15/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 40
I also have Roco AC version Art. Nr. 43930. I want to convert it to digital, but to date I have not found what Zimo or ESU decoder is suitable for the wagon. I have googled it a couple of year back but did not find anything on the net. It will interested if anybody here can suggest the DIY instruction to convert this car to digital.
Thanks
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 05 July 2016 15:47:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I am not sure how the electronic reverse unit works on this model. I cannot state with certainty that the reverse unit can simply be replaced by an ESU type decoder and you would be off and running.
What I can suggest is that you consult the parts list for the more recent model 63174 (DC only). I think that the PC board has been updated and it may include a socket for decoder and other modifications that might make conversion easier (Part 129291). The newer version seems to use a different motor than the older one.

See:
43930 https://www.roco.cc/doc/ET/1/DE/43525_9105.pdf
63174 http://www.roco.cc/doc/et/1/de/63174_202927.pdf

I found this on Stummi regarding conversion to digital (in German):
http://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=14629

Regards

Mike C
Offline mb300e4m  
#8 Posted : 04 January 2017 21:15:34(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
After studying this in detail, I have come to the conclusion that it is probably a DC model in an AC box. So I am going to put it up for sale without the extra parts, I can use them elsewhere. I now also have a boxed like-new Marklin Digital one (37580) with "bells and whistles"... an old Anglo Saxon expression.

PC260632.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
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