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Offline Gregzim  
#1 Posted : 03 June 2016 15:33:03(UTC)
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Gregzim

Australia   
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I have a Swiss based layout - lots of curves and climbs and hidden passes. The most frustrating thing is I cant find any normal coupler that works going backwards up hills and curves. All the normal loop types just jam and derail everything in long goods trains.

Ive tried 6 of the European ones and wonder if anyone has had success with others such as Fleishman knuckle types or the USA/Kadee prototypical types. I need the couples to swivel around each other as the opposing coupler arms move in different directions ahead of each other and under the pressure of being pushed rather than pulled. None of the ones I've tried allow the opposing buffers to get close to each other (which is the reason they are on real locos)

Any good experiences and types welcomed thanks.

Rgds

Greg
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 03 June 2016 15:50:58(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Greg!
Originally Posted by: Gregzim Go to Quoted Post
All the normal loop types just jam and derail everything in long goods trains.
Yes, but any close coupler should work: Märklin, Roco (Universal or Close), Fleischmann Profi Coupler, ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline waltklatt  
#3 Posted : 03 June 2016 15:54:57(UTC)
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waltklatt

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 138
Hi Greg,

I also have a small Swiss alpine theme layout (Noch Birkenfeld 1970) and found that the couplers that are flexible within the truck (double axle) don't work.
The double trucks that have a fixed coupler at the end are less likely to derail and jam.
For the single axle trucks, it's best to have a limited or stiff type sprung coupler.
The couplers that are flexible tend to deflect under a bit of pressure and the causes the jamming and derailing.
Also make sure all the track joints are smooth and straight. I teased all of the joints on my layout to the point where running a fingertip will not catch or snag.

Walter
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Offline Gregzim  
#4 Posted : 04 June 2016 05:58:13(UTC)
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Gregzim

Australia   
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Tks - what are examples of " limited or stiff type sprung couplers' thanks?

Greg
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Offline waltklatt  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2016 15:12:39(UTC)
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waltklatt

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 138
Greg,
Several types come to mind now.
I'm not near my layout.
The older tinplate (pressed steel) marklin passenger cars with the fixed couplers to the trucks.
Lima (not preferable) passenger cars.
Klienbahn passenger cars.
All the above have the couplers fixed at the ends of the trucks.
You can also use the single axle truck freight and passenger cars from marklin with a stronger spring to keep the couplers straight.
I'm not sure about the plastic nem type couplers though.

And if you look at the couplers, the large flat contact area below the prong for the hook should be rounded. Straight will lead to the couplers bending out causing a derailment.
The newer close couplers might work better. I have not tried them.

Maybe others will chime in.

Walter
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2016 15:47:33(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Marklin close couplers form a rigid link between the two wagons when coupled together, so they are ideal for situations where you have to push wagons through curves.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2016 16:12:47(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Marklin close couplers form a rigid link between the two wagons when coupled together
All close couplers do, as this is required to make the guiding mechanism work.
But Märklin close couplers can lead to derailments when non-Märklin rolling stock is used - sometimes they are a suitable solutions, sometimes they are the problem.

Non-rigid loop'n'hook couplers used with guiding mechanisms will lead to problems going downhill or in reverse.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 06 June 2016 17:33:27(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: Gregzim Go to Quoted Post
I have a Swiss based layout - lots of curves and climbs and hidden passes. The most frustrating thing is I cant find any normal coupler that works going backwards up hills and curves. All the normal loop types just jam and derail everything in long goods trains.

Ive tried 6 of the European ones and wonder if anyone has had success with others such as Fleishman knuckle types or the USA/Kadee prototypical types. I need the couples to swivel around each other as the opposing coupler arms move in different directions ahead of each other and under the pressure of being pushed rather than pulled. None of the ones I've tried allow the opposing buffers to get close to each other (which is the reason they are on real locos)

Any good experiences and types welcomed thanks.

Rgds

Greg


I made a decision a few years back to outfit my push-pull passenger trains (SBB LION, SBB EWIV, IC2000 double deck and EWIII (SBB and BLS)) with Fleischmann's 6505 Profi Coupler. It seems to provide the best push-pull operation. Most of these trains are run as units and as the same consist, so they don't need to be coupled to other coaches. The first and last (pilot coach) are equipped with normal couplers, either Maerklin 7203 or Roco Universal (40397) and the loco has similar couplers front and back.

As far as freight trains, almost all of my cars are equipped with Maerklin 7203 or Roco 40397. I do not mix new (close coupled) and old (standard coupling) cars.
It is not normal procedure for freight trains to be pushed. I have run the occasional train with a pusher locomotive. I have a few dummy locos (Re 4/4II, Re 460 and Re 482) that I can run at the end of a train. Using a powered locomotive can in some circumstances lead to a derailment if that loco pushes too hard against the load in front of it. Using a heavy metal loco can place too much strain on the cars in front, causing them to tip in curves.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline baggio  
#9 Posted : 08 June 2016 05:33:16(UTC)
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baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Have you considered using the old fashioned hook-like couplers as are used in the Marklin 30000 (and the old 3000)?

You would need a NEM pocket, obviously to insert the hook on one car and use a regular coupler on the other car that attaches to it.

Give it a try and see what happens.

My usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin
Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 08 June 2016 06:47:34(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Give it a try and see what happens.
In curves under pressure, hook and regular coupler will move to the outside of the curve and buffers collide on the inside of the curve, leading to derailment.

A rigid connection is needed. And it could be that the Fleischmann Profi coupler makes a very rigid connection.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Gregzim  
#11 Posted : 08 June 2016 09:00:25(UTC)
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Gregzim

Australia   
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Tks all for the endless examples. I just set up a whole train of 15 wagons using Fleischmanns Profi and they worked beautifully not a glitch uphill and down dale around curves going up and curves going down. For me at least - that's now sorted. I just ordered lots to redo the whole layout. I came to the conclusion that the Profi's absolute inter connection clipping together - thus forming n un movable bar type link was the key. Of course the value add bonus is to separate cars you simply lift up the car - sooo easy.

Rgds

Greg
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Offline baggio  
#12 Posted : 08 June 2016 14:07:51(UTC)
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baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Gregzim Go to Quoted Post
Fleischmanns Profi


Great! ThumpUp

Do you have a picture and/or article no. for these couplers?

Thanks.
Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
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Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 08 June 2016 19:39:59(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
The number for the Fleischmann Profi coupler is 6515 https://www.reynaulds.co...ts/Fleischmann/6515.aspx
Box of 50 is 386515


A current conducting version of this coupler is available from Viessmann. (Single pole)

Regards

Mike C
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