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Offline Tom Jessop  
#1 Posted : 25 May 2016 08:12:07(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


I have been following the current debate on the Yahoo ESU forum regarding their new V$4 upgraded decoder with a lot of new gimmicks such as Momentum & Independent brake usage on models . Sounds like a very big step forward has been made by ESU . So far there has been no mention from any "M" user as to how it works on their layout empire . Only comment so far has been from DCC users .

I am looking at selling my CS1 off & going over to a ESU controller as the CS! does not have the capabilities that the ESU one does with their decoders to my knowledge & there are few people in this part of the world to ask about it . Another big outlay which way I decide to go ESU or CS3 .

Any thoughts or comments please . Is there anyone who has tried these new decoders yet , maybe a basic review should do just to wet the appetite before I suggest to the FD that I may need to spend some loot on another plaything .

Cheers Tom in Oz .
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 25 May 2016 08:37:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
The CS1 is an ESU controller - and for those that ordered CS1 reloaded in time it even shows the ESU copyright statement.

I think I haven't heard about the new decoder features before. I will have to investigate that.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 25 May 2016 09:45:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
The V4 has been around for some time, has it not? Or is this a new version of the V4? (Doesn't make sense to me)

I have a few lokpilot V4 in use, including a V4M4 with mfx. My MS2 with software V1.3 would not register this decoder so I disabled mfx in it and I use it as a "non-mfx" V4. I haven't tried it again since I upgraded to V2.5.

In my opinion I could get the older V3 decoders to run locos more smoothly than the V4. There seem to be a lot of new features in these decoders that just get in the way as far as I'm concerned.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 25 May 2016 11:41:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the V4 decoder is more advanced than the V3 and it is for some of us more useful, a.) telex coupling pulse (you can program the pulse in seconds) as Tom mentioned, braking options, neon light (more light functions and this is just a few of the new features V3 hasn't got.

there are again driving characteristics and for some it is more difficult to program them. but it doesn't mean they are worse than V3

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 25 May 2016 14:20:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Information about the "Full Throttle" feature can be found in a PDF on the ESU site:
http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

It's a feature of the Select decoders which are not normally available from European dealers. The sounds available for Select decoders are primarily American.

MRR fans focussing on European models have missed this new feature completely.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 26 May 2016 15:13:06(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Information about the "Full Throttle" feature can be found in a PDF on the ESU site:
http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

It's a feature of the Select decoders which are not normally available from European dealers. The sounds available for Select decoders are primarily American.

MRR fans focussing on European models have missed this new feature completely.


it is available for both the Select and V4, but there are currently only 5 sound files released and they are all American Diesel prototypes.

Any current v4 or Select can be modified to use the new Full throttle feature by uploading to the decoder a Full Throttle enabled project. Only Diesel projects are available at the moment, with Steam scheduled to come out later this year.

As a feature it really suits diesel locos as used by US railroads, as there is a tendency to set the motor speed and then control the loco operation with excitation of the motors and use of the brakes. The Full Throttle function uses a function key to disassociate the throttle knob on the controller from controlling the loco speed in the loco and switches it to act as a brake function as far as I can work out.

I haven't tried it out, but there is a video available on the ESU Youtube channel demonstrating it in action on a layout, done by Matt hermann the uS ESU representative on the layout of someone who was helping beta test the new feature. See this Youtube video for information on the new features.


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Offline jvuye  
#7 Posted : 26 May 2016 17:32:26(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Information about the "Full Throttle" feature can be found in a PDF on the ESU site:
http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

It's a feature of the Select decoders which are not normally available from European dealers. The sounds available for Select decoders are primarily American.

MRR fans focussing on European models have missed this new feature completely.


it is available for both the Select and V4, but there are currently only 5 sound files released and they are all American Diesel prototypes.

Any current v4 or Select can be modified to use the new Full throttle feature by uploading to the decoder a Full Throttle enabled project. Only Diesel projects are available at the moment, with Steam scheduled to come out later this year.

As a feature it really suits diesel locos as used by US railroads, as there is a tendency to set the motor speed and then control the loco operation with excitation of the motors and use of the brakes. The Full Throttle function uses a function key to disassociate the throttle knob on the controller from controlling the loco speed in the loco and switches it to act as a brake function as far as I can work out.

I haven't tried it out, but there is a video available on the ESU Youtube channel demonstrating it in action on a layout, done by Matt hermann the uS ESU representative on the layout of someone who was helping beta test the new feature. See this Youtube video for information on the new features.




Pretty cool feature! I love it.
This is (finally!) diesel sound in 3D!BigGrin
The obvious choice for my US Diesels when future conversions/ upgrades will have to be performed!
Thanks for bringing this up!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 26 May 2016 17:56:18(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
I have ESU latest catalog 2016 and there is no information standing about new upgrade decoder V 4.0!
Do you mean upgrade lok programmer instead,to program sound decoder?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 26 May 2016 18:03:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Interesting concepts for those who like to play at running their trains rather than watch them go round in circles.

I like the idea of the independent braking function. I would use that. Very often, especially when the loco has the braking delay set quite high, it becomes a hit and miss affair to know where the loco will come to a halt at a station. With a "brake" button you can presumably be more accurate in stopping the loco in the right place.

As I understand it the "Full Throttle" function decouples the loco speed from the throttle, so that the throttle only controls the engine sound, leaving the speed constant. Though probably looking very realistic I wonder how long it would take to get tired of playing with this before going back to having the sound and speed linked as we normally do.

I won't rush out to buy these decoders, even if they become available for European prototypes.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 26 May 2016 18:06:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I have ESU latest catalog 2016 and there is no information standing about new upgrade decoder V 4.0!
Do you mean upgrade lok programmer instead,to program sound decoder?


It wasn't announced until about three weeks ago. They have been working on it for a while, and as far as I can ascertain some US modellers have been beta testing it for about 3 months. There was a teaser video available to those on the yahoo Loksound email group about the middle of April, and that was the first announcement of it.

It is primarily aimed at the US market I believe, as that is how they operate their locomotives. To have this facility you need to download an updated sound file into the decoder. To do that and set up the decoder you need an update to the Lokprogrammer software. Currently there appears to be some small problems with some other features that have been introduced on the Lokprogrammer software which have been reported on the Loksound list.

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Offline jvuye  
#11 Posted : 26 May 2016 22:58:09(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Interesting concepts for those who like to play at running their trains rather than watch them go round in circles.

I like the idea of the independent braking function. I would use that. Very often, especially when the loco has the braking delay set quite high, it becomes a hit and miss affair to know where the loco will come to a halt at a station. With a "brake" button you can presumably be more accurate in stopping the loco in the right place.

As I understand it the "Full Throttle" function decouples the loco speed from the throttle, so that the throttle only controls the engine sound, leaving the speed constant. Though probably looking very realistic I wonder how long it would take to get tired of playing with this before going back to having the sound and speed linked as we normally do.

I won't rush out to buy these decoders, even if they become available for European prototypes.



Well indeed these expressions like "Notch 8" and "Dynamic brakes" are typical of US railroad lingo, but honestly, the sound files for Marklin US loks lacked a bit of realism, especially when transitioning from one mode to the other.
The sound on the Märklin WP Cal Zephyr F7, was a nice step forward, but still was far remote from reality. Those of us who have experienced US railroading sounds with their own ears know what I am talking about.
But frankly, Ray , I wouldn't mind hearing a BR 218 with more realistic sounds!
Let's see (and hear!) what ESU will come up with for European prototypes...
Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 26 May 2016 23:23:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Interesting concepts for those who like to play at running their trains rather than watch them go round in circles.

I like the idea of the independent braking function. I would use that. Very often, especially when the loco has the braking delay set quite high, it becomes a hit and miss affair to know where the loco will come to a halt at a station. With a "brake" button you can presumably be more accurate in stopping the loco in the right place.

As I understand it the "Full Throttle" function decouples the loco speed from the throttle, so that the throttle only controls the engine sound, leaving the speed constant. Though probably looking very realistic I wonder how long it would take to get tired of playing with this before going back to having the sound and speed linked as we normally do.

I won't rush out to buy these decoders, even if they become available for European prototypes.



Well indeed these expressions like "Notch 8" and "Dynamic brakes" are typical of US railroad lingo, but honestly, the sound files for Marklin US loks lacked a bit of realism, especially when transitioning from one mode to the other.
The sound on the Märklin WP Cal Zephyr F7, was a nice step forward, but still was far remote from reality. Those of us who have experienced US railroading sounds with their own ears know what I am talking about.
But frankly, Ray , I wouldn't mind hearing a BR 218 with more realistic sounds!
Let's see (and hear!) what ESU will come up with for European prototypes...
Cheers



Indeed, I welcome improvement in locomotive sounds, and from my own experience I find that every new loco I get with sound is more realistic than previous versions.

My own model of the Marklin Br218 has excellent sound compared to some my older locos, but more recent locos do sound better.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 27 May 2016 03:17:02(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Am I missing something ? they're all for scale "0" the information says = LokSound L V4.0 & LokSound Select L =

1. Edition, August 2015
LokSound Select L / LokSound L V4.0
LokSound Select L V4.0 & LokSound L V4.0 The new LokSound L V4.0 and the LokSound Select L are made to fill a huge void in the O scale DCC Market. The LokSound L V4.0 and LokSound L Select decoders will easily use the many respective ESU V4.0 and Select sound files already on the market as they are of course programmable with the famous ESU LokProgrammer hardware. With a constant current of 3Amps continuous the decoder’s load control will power all current O scale locomotives whether having 1 or 2 motors with ease. The decoder’s hardware includes 11(!) function outputs, ability run 2 servos, and inputs for 3 hall sensors (commonly used for syncing Steam Chuffs). You can also add 2 speakers as there are 2 separate speaker outputs (one Channel). Additionally there is the ability to add an external volume control and external power pack. All LokSound L V4.0 / LokSound Select L will be shipped with an adapter board that makes installation easy.


regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 27 May 2016 08:09:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Am I missing something?
Yes.
Full throttle is just a software feature that is also supported by ESU V4 decoders sold years ago. It just takes the latest ESU LokProgrammer software and new sound projects.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 27 May 2016 15:43:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
For those not going to the ESU Loksound yahoo group, here is another video.

No commentary, just subtitles. Sit turn up the sound and watch.

Offline biedmatt  
#16 Posted : 27 May 2016 16:32:42(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
If I understand it right, this will simulate the diesel on a diesel-electric running at full speed to generate max electric power, where the speed of the prototype is controlled by varying the amount of power flowing to the electric motors on each axle instead of varying the amount of power generated by the generator to control speed, which would be done by changing the speed of the diesel. Perfect for diesel-electrics, but not what you would want on a diesel-hydraulic.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline jvuye  
#17 Posted : 28 May 2016 18:28:17(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
If I understand it right, this will simulate the diesel on a diesel-electric running at full speed to generate max electric power, where the speed of the prototype is controlled by varying the amount of power flowing to the electric motors on each axle instead of varying the amount of power generated by the generator to control speed, which would be done by changing the speed of the diesel. Perfect for diesel-electrics, but not what you would want on a diesel-hydraulic.


Well, you are right.
A diesel hydraulic will have a totally different sound file, but it will have similar features!
For example the lok may be running at cruising speed , but the diesel motor would be practically idling because of light load.
With current Märklin sound files, the diesel sound is directly linked to the lok's speed i.e. throttle "full open" unless stopped!

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline jcrtrains  
#18 Posted : 30 May 2016 12:57:44(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Has anyone found reasonable pricing on the v4 full sound decoder? I am seeing 139 us$ which is rather a lot if you have quite a few locomotives.
Offline biedmatt  
#19 Posted : 30 May 2016 13:27:05(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone found reasonable pricing on the v4 full sound decoder? I am seeing 139 us$ which is rather a lot if you have quite a few locomotives.


$110 with quantity discounts beginning at 5 or more:
http://store.sbs4dcc.com...coder21MTCConnector.aspx

If you're a masochist and must have MFX, add another $10:
http://store.sbs4dcc.com...SoundDecoder21MTCCo.aspx
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 30 May 2016 13:45:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Sound is expensive, especially when you retrofit a sound decoder. I only have a selection of my locos which I've bought new with sound. All my conversions are silent.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#21 Posted : 30 May 2016 15:09:47(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Sound is expensive, especially when you retrofit a sound decoder. I only have a selection of my locos which I've bought new with sound. All my conversions are silent.

That is what I do as well. You are right - sound is very expensive to add.

My older loks which came without sound generally stay that way - I primarily want the smooth operation that the newer electronics provide.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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