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Offline Minok  
#1 Posted : 11 April 2016 22:01:40(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Yes, this is the German language version; no idea if they will produce an updated English version. You would think they might, as its a good language to use to cover most other nationalities.

But anyway, I asked them, given the CS3/3+ are coming out soon, will they be updating the 03081 book "Einstieg in Märklin Digital" (Entry into Märklin Digital) some time soon to reflect that new gear and how it would be used with the stable of digital technologies and what one could do.

So I got the "well we have to actually wait for the CS3 to appear" typical customer service silliness.
Because, you know, despite you having controllers in house that are likely 85-98% of what you will deliver later this year, you could not possibly be already writing the copy to put in the book so you could publish it shortly after the CS3 is released, right? I mean, books on Windows operating systems and other computer applications are never written until the product is for sale.

The folks did say that early 2017 would be the likely earliest an updated version would be available.
Given the insane shipping being charged for a book to ship from Germany (doesn't anyone use the 'book/media postage rate' anymore? Its pennies per pound/kg of paper).... I don't see spending $40-60 for a $22 book if its going to be missing some interesting new content a few months later.

So if you don't already have the book, and are thinking about it, I'd suggest waiting till next year, unless you can get the current edition in your hands for under €15.

http://www.maerklin.de/d...e/details/article/03081/
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 11 April 2016 23:28:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post

So I got the "well we have to actually wait for the CS3 to appear" typical customer service silliness.


That will always be the case. There will be software revisions right up until it is released, and until there is a stable software version released they can't rewrite the book.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post

So if you don't already have the book, and are thinking about it, I'd suggest waiting till next year, unless you can get the current edition in your hands for under €15.

http://www.maerklin.de/d...e/details/article/03081/


Where have you seen it for €15? Best I have seen is €19.
Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 12 April 2016 02:07:31(UTC)
Minok

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Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Yes, the software will be updated here and there up to (and beyond the release) but the core functionality and features of the CS3/3+ should now be set for the most part - they could be writing the chapter on the CS3/3+ already based on the current functionality. I'd bet they can have 80% of the chapter finished based on the current spec and functionality.

My point on the price is the current edition is going to be outdated later this year or early next, so I'd only buy the current edition if you can get it for very cheap. Paying full price of €19 plus shipping (+€40 from Germany it seems), or $39 + shipping within the US from a dealer, for a soon to be outdated version is to be avoided. I'm not suggesting anyone can find the current edition for a song, but I'd not buy it unless you can get it for that cheap. We are in that "months until the next iPhone is released" period for this book - just don't buy the current version unless you can get it for a steep discount and will not want/need the CS3/3+ info.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 12 April 2016 04:19:44(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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There seems to be 2 different covers for this book, are there any differences in the text of each of these?


Capture2.JPG


Capture1.JPG
Offline MaerklinLife  
#5 Posted : 12 April 2016 05:50:07(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
The book is a collection of previously published Märklin Magazin articles. The coming Märklin Magazin articles are going to be about the CS3. If you sign up for the Märklin Magazin in English, you can start getting the information as it arrive. Perhaps later a book will come, but I would not expect it until they have enough articles to justify a book. The current article collection dates back to 2011.

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
There seems to be 2 different covers for this book, are there any differences in the text of each of these?

There is only one version. The first cover was the mock-up they used as a placeholder before the original cover was known. They have not used it since.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by MaerklinLife
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 12 April 2016 06:00:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
The first cover was the mock-up they used as a placeholder before the original cover was known. They have not used it since.


Maybe so, but sellers on ebay seem to be advertising either or!

Offline Minok  
#7 Posted : 12 April 2016 07:23:41(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
. Perhaps later a book will come, but I would not expect it until they have enough articles to justify a book. The current article collection dates back to 2011.



They already have enough for a book- the current book. All they need to do is add the new articles (give what you say) to the existing content. And publish. The old stuff still applies. It's an all in one synopsis.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#8 Posted : 12 April 2016 07:46:23(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
There seems to be 2 different covers for this book, are there any differences in the text of each of these?


Capture2.JPG




Someone should raise that pantograph.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Iamnotthecrazyone
Offline MaerklinLife  
#9 Posted : 12 April 2016 10:55:14(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Maybe so, but sellers on ebay seem to be advertising either or!

Probably just using stock photo. Either because they do not know any better, or simply does not care. I have yet to see a picture of an actual book with that cover.

Offline MaerklinLife  
#10 Posted : 12 April 2016 10:58:13(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
They already have enough for a book- the current book. All they need to do is add the new articles (give what you say) to the existing content. And publish. The old stuff still applies. It's an all in one synopsis.

...you missed my point: Articles about the new thing still needs to be written. They will be in the Märklin Magazine for months (and years) to come. I would assume that they would need a bit more information about the actual use of the product and its features, before they can justify printing a new book.
Offline Hackcell  
#11 Posted : 12 April 2016 18:37:36(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
They need with a more technical book than this one. IMHO, the latest version seems to me more like a well documented commercial/ad/propaganda of M digital products than a technical knowledge resource.

Edited by user 12 April 2016 22:16:17(UTC)  | Reason: grammar error

Danilo Jiménez
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Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
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Offline Minok  
#12 Posted : 13 April 2016 00:39:55(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
They already have enough for a book- the current book. All they need to do is add the new articles (give what you say) to the existing content. And publish. The old stuff still applies. It's an all in one synopsis.

...you missed my point: Articles about the new thing still needs to be written. They will be in the Märklin Magazine for months (and years) to come. I would assume that they would need a bit more information about the actual use of the product and its features, before they can justify printing a new book.


Ah, then I will re-evaluate the utility of the book at all. Märklin knows the product itself and what it is intended to be used for. They should be able to write up an article for describing new central stations and what new features those models provide. If they don't have their own authors and are relying on external submissions then it would take longer as real users in the field would need to want to bother writing the magazine articles. If they are internally written at Märklin then there is no reason their writers cannot already be going at producing such articles. Again, the company knows most of what the features are and how they should be used. Its not like they are producing a product that has some wide feature range and are throwing it out there with the expectation that the consumer market will figure out interesting and useful ways of using it that they have not thought of.

Now if they intend to FIRST publish such articles in a magazine for some months after the product is released, and only then bundle that content into the new book, fine, that pushes back the book needlessly (in my mind) to the benefit of selling magazines (which may be the right business decision).

However I have to think that if the book has any technical value at all, having it being available as close as possible to the launch of the hardware is a good thing. That is how every other book-to-go-with-product pairing I've come across works.

I don't know the business model for the magazines and books -I don't have any of them. I'm just an engineer building a layout who wants to buy one book that covers the broad variety of digital products and how they are used to include the new stuff coming out in 2016. It sounds like there's a more complex interaction that goes on with the hardware, magazines and books that I knew about nor would have expected.

But I'll stand by the notion that if the new CS3/3+ are coming out later this year, that any internal to Märklin, and even typical external, writers of these articles and content cannot already be writing some of these articles based on what they know will be available and new. If the product is due to ship later this year the features/functions have got to be mostly locked down ad they have prototypes and early production units they can work with to produce the content.


I would like to see a more technical treatment. Thats one of the reasons I am looking to the book - because the general manuals are so much hand-waving that it hides technical information under marketing and naming conventions and confuses technically savy users. It would be nice if a newbie, at whom such a book is aimed, could learn the various hardware to be used in digital today, and how they are used to what modeling situations are solved with what parts arranged how, and why, if all of that could be found in this book for an 80-90% solution.

Rather than having to read dozens and dozens of PDFs scattered about the internet, visit lots of forums to learn the knowledge handed down in posts and your never quite sure if that post from 2004 still applies to the technology in 2016 or not...
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 13 April 2016 00:46:29(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Maybe so, but sellers on ebay seem to be advertising either or!

Probably just using stock photo. Either because they do not know any better, or simply does not care. I have yet to see a picture of an actual book with that cover.




There is also this cover, which I assume is from a much much older edition - claimed from the 1994 edition.

UserPostedImage
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 13 April 2016 02:06:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Location: New Zealand
Yes, that is the older digital book - I have the German version. There was also an English version of that book, so hopefully there will be an English version of the new book sometime.
Offline MaerklinLife  
#15 Posted : 14 April 2016 07:07:47(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Again, the company knows most of what the features are and how they should be used. Its not like they are producing a product that has some wide feature range and are throwing it out there with the expectation that the consumer market will figure out interesting and useful ways of using it that they have not thought of.

Actually, some times, it feels that way.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Now if they intend to FIRST publish such articles in a magazine for some months after the product is released, and only then bundle that content into the new book, fine, that pushes back the book needlessly (in my mind) to the benefit of selling magazines (which may be the right business decision).

That would be my guess, simply because they did that with the previous book. As long as no new or updated book has been announced, I believe they will do that again.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
However I have to think that if the book has any technical value at all, having it being available as close as possible to the launch of the hardware is a good thing. That is how every other book-to-go-with-product pairing I've come across works.

I completely agree, but having a good and informative user's guide covering all aspects of a technically complicated product is also how most other things work, but that has not stopped them from not having that as well. So I am not surprised or anything if they continue down the path they have been on for so long.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I would like to see a more technical treatment. Thats one of the reasons I am looking to the book - because the general manuals are so much hand-waving that it hides technical information under marketing and naming conventions and confuses technically savy users. It would be nice if a newbie, at whom such a book is aimed, could learn the various hardware to be used in digital today, and how they are used to what modeling situations are solved with what parts arranged how, and why, if all of that could be found in this book for an 80-90% solution.

A more technical book would be great. I have the book from around 1994 when the 6021 came out, that one covers in depth information about how the digital system actually works. It is quite interesting, and much of the information is still relevant as nothing basic has really changed. I was expecting the new book to be somewhat similar in content to the book from 1994, but when I started reading it, I very quickly had a feeling that I have read the text before, and that's when it hit me: The entire book is a reprint of Märklin Magazin articles, there is nothing new in it.

I look at it as a handy way of finding older articles, without having to look through my collection. But that is about it. The book is great if you do not know anything about digital and wants to get started, but an advanced user that hungers for in depth information will surely be disappointed.
Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 14 April 2016 19:49:13(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post

A more technical book would be great. I have the book from around 1994 when the 6021 came out, that one covers in depth information about how the digital system actually works. It is quite interesting, and much of the information is still relevant as nothing basic has really changed. I was expecting the new book to be somewhat similar in content to the book from 1994, but when I started reading it, I very quickly had a feeling that I have read the text before, and that's when it hit me: The entire book is a reprint of Märklin Magazin articles, there is nothing new in it.

I look at it as a handy way of finding older articles, without having to look through my collection. But that is about it. The book is great if you do not know anything about digital and wants to get started, but an advanced user that hungers for in depth information will surely be disappointed.



That is a good case for purchasing both the 1994 edition (for the in depth detail) and the current version (when did it come out? 200x?) - but the cost of such a thing is prohibitive for what you get I think.

Maybe in the end I'll just build my own book from what I can find on the internet.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline MaerklinLife  
#17 Posted : 15 April 2016 06:12:42(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
That is a good case for purchasing both the 1994 edition (for the in depth detail) and the current version (when did it come out? 200x?) - but the cost of such a thing is prohibitive for what you get I think. Maybe in the end I'll just build my own book from what I can find on the internet.

The current edition was announced around 2014, but came out around december 2015, just af "few" months ago. Which is also why I do not think a reprint is around the corner. Smile

I have learned a lot from the 1994 book. So I really recommend it, especially for those being into Märklin Digital. It covers Delta and the first MM protocols. Theory is the same for most digital system though, making it a great resource.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 16 April 2016 13:30:51(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
That is a good case for purchasing both the 1994 edition (for the in depth detail) and the current version (when did it come out? 200x?) - but the cost of such a thing is prohibitive for what you get I think. Maybe in the end I'll just build my own book from what I can find on the internet.

The current edition was announced around 2014, but came out around december 2015, just af "few" months ago. Which is also why I do not think a reprint is around the corner. Smile


There have been two articles in the marklin Magazine on the cs3 features, and the second article lists about six more to come (I received my 02/2016 Trix Proficlub mailing about a fortnight ago, but not seen the Marklin one yet). So expect any updated reprint of the book to be at least a year away, and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't announced until the 2018 NI, with delivery anything up to a year beyond that.

Offline steventrain  
#19 Posted : 16 April 2016 14:04:33(UTC)
steventrain

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Marklin might print English edition in the future - Marklin facebook.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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