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Offline morsing  
#1 Posted : 30 March 2016 20:27:34(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

Just wondering, if you run double-headed, and one loco has a brief power outage and resets, what will happen? Will the other train just push it along till it gets up to speed? That can't be good! Would it be worth hooking them up with current conducting couplers?

Thanks
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Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 30 March 2016 20:45:09(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Hmmm, I am a prolific double-header driver. When this happens on my layout, the affected unit picks up speed immediately. Either the acceleration is set to do that, or there is a capacitor "buffering". Even with a long and heavy tin plate train in tow, I never experienced any derails or other mishaps in such a situation.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#3 Posted : 31 March 2016 20:45:58(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Hello,

I think some of it depends on the loco. One thing recommended to me in the past that does seem to help with Marklin decoders (MM, MFX, whatever), is to turn off acceleration/braking delay of consist members. That way if there is a blip in power for one unit, it doesn't have to ramp backup to speed.

Some models may have a little more trouble than others. For example, when I run MU consists of my MTH 3E+ locomotives, sometimes if the front unit(s) loose power for a second the rear will push them into a slight derailment. With the MTH units, all axles are powered and each locomotive has four traction tires (four tires across 8 axles). MTH models do not "coast" at all, like Marklin DCM based motor models may. As soon as the motor looses power they are dead stop. I have not tried it, but i wonder if this would be an issue with Marklin diesels that have newer style motors and all axles powered.

I also notice that sometimes if the units have weak coupler tongues it may lead to problems, e.g. the Marklin DCM based BR85 and BR44 toolings for example. The newer issues of that tooling sometimes have soft front coupler tongues. You just need to make sure they operate closer to the same speed to begin with, then it's no issue. They are geared similarity.

As AK has said, I never have any issues doing multi unit operations with Marklin F7s, so long as they all have the same type of decoder. I have not tried mixed decoders (say MM and MFX), but I suspect the difference in speed steps would cause some binding, although I would not expect a derailment.

-Brandon
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Offline morsing  
#4 Posted : 31 March 2016 22:35:09(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

I did think of removing the accel/brake delay but it takes some of the realism out of driving it. Just for info, my planned double header is a set of Marklin 39674s (DSB MY1100).

Thanks

Edited by user 05 April 2016 09:34:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline morsing  
#5 Posted : 05 April 2016 09:36:41(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

What do people think of my idea of linking them with conducting couplers? Would is be possible?

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 05 April 2016 10:09:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
What do people think of my idea of linking them with conducting couplers?
Can be done, but if both locos keep their sliders it will have impact on signal braking modules and also on transitions between booster sections.

If only one loco has a slider, it will behave like an ordinary loco.
Regards
Tom
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"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline sgtb  
#7 Posted : 05 April 2016 17:13:40(UTC)
sgtb

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Central Ohio
Hello,

Tried this 2 years ago when I converted to digital and running a vintage layout with m track and signal blocks it was a mess. I haven't done it yet but I'm going to make a long coal train with two Br44's running on one decoder as a header and have the pusher in the rear a dummy unit with no motor, just front lights wired up. With this set up there is only 2 wires between the loks at the couplers.

Came up with this idea after reading other members here running 2 loks on one decoder.BigGrin

All my Loks except 2 are from the 80's and 90's converted with ESU decoders so gutting a motor out of one was no big deal for me, she's just towed now.

Bob
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Offline foumaro  
#8 Posted : 06 April 2016 08:36:17(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
This way of running the locomotives is risky for the decoders and the motors of the locomotives.It is impossible to program them running,stoping or accelerating with the same way,unless they are the same with the same decoders and the same programming.Just my opininion.
Offline Tdl  
#9 Posted : 06 April 2016 15:16:11(UTC)
Tdl

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 71
Location: Amsterdam
All,

On my layout I operate trains with two or more powered units (engines or train sets). Each powered unit picks up power. Thus I can operate any powered unit also independent and combine powered units freely.

As I use computer control, the power pick up can be at any place in the train. There is no need to change the power pick up when the train changes direction.

When powered units are brought together in a train, my software adjusts the velocity profiles of each of the powered units so that these match as good as possible. I do not use consist addresses. My software sends the direction, speed step and function commands for each of the powered units in the train (quasi) simultaneously.

I do operate trains with two or more powered units in three train configurations:

1. A pulled train with two – four engines at the head.
My experience is that when one of the engines loses power due to bad contact, the other engine(s) in the train pull or push the train over the spot where the bad contact is. When the engines are of about the same weight all will stay on track. Hence I see no need to provide a power connection between the two engines for these train configurations.

2. Two – four coupled train sets.
My experience is that when one of the train sets loses power, then a part of the train is pulled or pushed off the track. This will occur for sure when the train is in a curve. Hence I have provided a power connection between each of the train sets. Currently I connect this cable manually. I’m considering to equip the train sets with current conducting couplers that can be uncoupled remotely (the ones that are made by T4T).

3. A train with an engine pulling and an engine pushing. (Such a sandwich is not uncommon in Europe.)
My experience is that one must have power connection between the engines at each end. When not the cars of the train will be pulled or pushed off the track. This requires a power cable through each car of the train and electrical conducting couplers between the cars or groups of cars. I use Viessmann ordernumber 5048. These have two electrical contacts, are rated 1 Amp and can be uncoupled on a standard uncoupling unit.
Alternative for sandwich trains would be to have a powered engine at one end and a dummy engine at the other end.

Regards, Willem
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