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Upgrading between Mobile Station 60653 and 60657 - Mobile Station 60653 and 60657 interoperateability
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Offline aclassifier  
#1 Posted : 13 February 2016 12:33:27(UTC)
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aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
The "New Items for 2016" book page 152 describes the new Mobile Station 60657.

It's not called Mobile Station III, so I assume it's mostly the same internals.

Therefore I also assume that my old 60653 might be upgraded by the new 60657 through the old 60113 connector box?

I see that in the description of the new 60116 connector box it says that it's for 60653 and 60657, which may indicate that its also upgradeable. However, the 60653 is not included in the description of the 60657's connection to the connector box.

The reason I ask is that if the new firmware is in the form if a "Intel hex file" it would be more specifically made for a particular processor's memory layout. If it's more like a "binary file" (and the Mobile Station has a file system) then it's more future safe. Does anybody know of how the upgrade is done, at the technical level?
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 13 February 2016 12:46:22(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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I know that there are two different hardware versions for the 60653 and the file system contains two hardware-specific firmware files.

I think there is no new hardware inside the 60657 - if there was then a third firmware file in the file system would do the trick.

Ask Märklin if you want to be sure, but I assume 60653 will be able to update 60657 and vice versa.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline aclassifier  
#3 Posted : 19 February 2016 18:11:31(UTC)
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aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
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Location: Trondheim
I did ask "service at maerklin.de" about this.

"Is it possible to use 60657 (2.5) to upgrade 60653 (1.81)"

Reply: "yes, this should be possible. But the 60657 will ask you for this update only one time."

I then continued with this question:

"Thank you. Does this mean that 60657 will send its 2.5 to a 60653 max once? So if I need to upgrade two 60653 with 2.5 then I need to move 2.5 from the just updated 60653 to the second 60653? In case, why is this so? (I am a programmer myself, doing embedded fire detection)"

No reply (yet, at least)
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 19 February 2016 18:39:44(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
"Is it possible to use 60657 (2.5) to upgrade 60653 (1.81)"

Reply: "yes, this should be possible. But the 60657 will ask you for this update only one time."
Well - maybe not the full truth.

The firmware file is in the file system of the MS2. You will be asked automatically whether you want to transfer the file. Not sure if that question only comes once. It should come once for every MS2. And IIRC this question comes on the "pulling" MS2, the one with the old firmware.
And it comes once for every file. Several files will be transferred.
Installing the firmware is "pushed" from the MS2 with the newer firmware to the MS2 with the older firmware. Not automatically, you have to invoke a menu item. Can be done as often as you wish. Make sure you do it on the one with the newer firmware.

An upgrade 60653 can pass the upgrade to another 60653. So it is no problem to update two MS2. In the worst case the updated 60653 will update the other 60653. But in my experience this won't be necessary and one 60657 should be able to update several 60653.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Unholz  
#5 Posted : 06 May 2016 19:22:47(UTC)
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Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
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I had a discussion with my dealer's staff today regarding compatibility between the 60657 MS 2 and the older (grey) 60113 connector box (Gleisbox in German). The shop owner thought that Marklin had written somewhere that the 60657 can only be connected to the newer 60116 box, whereas his assistant said that mixing is no problem.

Well, we tried it out at the shop and it worked without problem. Now at home I have installed this 60657 as a slave of the older 60653 master, and everything appears to be running flawlessly. So perhaps Marklin wants to sell more of the 60116 boxes and therefore discourages customers from sticking with their 60113? Blink
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Offline aclassifier  
#6 Posted : 06 May 2016 23:04:00(UTC)
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aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
I had a discussion with my dealer's staff today regarding compatibility between the 60657 MS 2 and the older (grey) 60113 connector box (Gleisbox in German). The shop owner thought that Marklin had written somewhere that the 60657 can only be connected to the newer 60116 box, whereas his assistant said that mixing is no problem.

Well, we tried it out at the shop and it worked without problem. Now at home I have installed this 60657 as a slave of the older 60653 master, and everything appears to be running flawlessly. So perhaps Marklin wants to sell more of the 60116 boxes and therefore discourages customers from sticking with their 60113? Blink


Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I did ask "service at maerklin.de" about this.

"Is it possible to use 60657 (2.5) to upgrade 60653 (1.81)"

Reply: "yes, this should be possible. But the 60657 will ask you for this update only one time."

I then continued with this question:

"Thank you. Does this mean that 60657 will send its 2.5 to a 60653 max once? So if I need to upgrade two 60653 with 2.5 then I need to move 2.5 from the just updated 60653 to the second 60653? In case, why is this so? (I am a programmer myself, doing embedded fire detection)"

No reply (yet, at least)


I got another reply from Märklin. To read all in context, it's at http://www.teigfam.net/o...s_and_firmware_revisions (Disclaimer: there is no money or gift or anything else than fun and hopefully not too much waste of time in any of my blog notes)
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 07 May 2016 08:49:36(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
The shop owner thought that Marklin had written somewhere that the 60657 can only be connected to the newer 60116 box, whereas his assistant said that mixing is no problem.
Märklin write in the German product database about 60657:
"Hinweis: Zum Anschluss der Mobile Station ist die Anschlussbox 60114 bzw. 60112 (Spur 1) oder 60116 bzw. 60113 (H0) erforderlich."

In the English text, the numbers 60112 and 60113 are missing.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 07 May 2016 08:57:53(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I got another reply from Märklin.
A single MS2 can upgrade any number of other MS2s, not just one.
I'm not even sure it only asks once. I think there are tricks to initiate the transfer later.
The real firmware upgrade has to be started manually anyway AFAIK.

Ease of use and clarity of documentation are on the usual Märklin level, but things work OK.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline aclassifier  
#9 Posted : 05 September 2016 23:06:09(UTC)
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aclassifier

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Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
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Location: Trondheim
I have now got my 60657 and have some experience with it.

It certainly upgraded my 1.81 to 2.5 ok.

But I had a catastrophic upgrade with the upgraded unit trying to upgrade 1.3 to 1.81. I have blogged about it here: Märklin Mobile Station 60653 catastrophic upgrade

You may think that I am rather confused. I am. But I shouldn't need to be.
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 06 September 2016 08:34:53(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
But I had a catastrophic upgrade with the upgraded unit trying to upgrade 1.3 to 1.81.
It should be possible to to reanimate the MS2 with a CS2. Just press the red button while you plug the MS2 into the CS2.
Any chance to get near a CS2?

An MS2 running 2.5, but spreading 1.81, was not fully updated yet.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline aclassifier  
#11 Posted : 06 September 2016 15:38:32(UTC)
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aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Is there a chance to "reanimate" MS2 any other way then using a CS2?

With the 1.81 from 2.5 MS2 to the 1.3 MS2 I did wait until everything seemed finished plus some..

Did my 60653 MS2 keep the 1.81 image file when it was upgraded from the 60657?
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 06 September 2016 15:55:07(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
Is there a chance to "reanimate" MS2 any other way then using a CS2?
I don't know if the trick (pressing the red button while plugging it in) also works with another MS2.

Maybe a forum member in Norway can help. The cost would be twice the postage for a national parcel ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline aclassifier  
#13 Posted : 08 September 2016 23:04:52(UTC)
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aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
Is there a chance to "reanimate" MS2 any other way then using a CS2?
I don't know if the trick (pressing the red button while plugging it in) also works with another MS2.

Maybe a forum member in Norway can help. The cost would be twice the postage for a national parcel ...


No, it couldn't reanimate from another MS2.

I live in Trondheim..

I think I found another problem with 2.5. See http://www.teigfam.net/o...st_when_it_partially_was
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