Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Paul24  
#1 Posted : 08 February 2016 00:48:08(UTC)
Paul24

United States   
Joined: 07/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: California, Pleasant Hill
I'm relatively new to both Marklin trains and this forum, and I don't pretend to know electronics details. I'm getting desperate for some plain-English instruction about how to get my outdated digital controls to work, because the manuals I've got have been awful in explaining many basics.

These are the facts: (1) I've got a limited budget and bought a My World Starter Set (29162) for my grandson (and myself) because it had the cheapest digital loco; (2) As I became more familiar with Marklin, I decided to try to transition from the IR controller in the starter set, which had worked fine, to more regular digital control; (3) Since I couldn't afford the newest devices, I decided to go on eBay and buy the older digital devices, a 6001 transformer and a 6023 Central Control-i because the layout would not be that big in the near future; all I would need was to control a few locos and turnouts; (4) I set up the wiring for the transformer and Central Control, and placed the digital Henschel-type DHG on the track, but got no movement. The ancient booklet for the 6023 was no real help, and I was pushing buttons almost randomly, to no effect.

I think I understand the basics about digital control, and that I need to have the Central Control-i and the locomotive decoder in sync. And I've learned that my 6023 is set up to control four locos on the 10, 20, 30, and 40 addresses. Trouble is--as was pointed out in another forum discussion I was looking at--my loco seems to have a factory-set address (#72) that I'm now thinking can't be changed, at least not by me. According to the starter-set instructions, there are four addresses on the IR controller that you can use, but none of them is 10, 20, 30, or 40 (instead it's 78, 72, 60, and 24; don't understand the logic there). I was able to open the loco up, but I didn't see anything that looked like it could be adjusted. Here are some basic questions I have for anyone considerate enough to help me out:

(1) Do I need to alter my locomotive's address to either 10, 20, 30, or 40, to get the loco to respond and does that mean I have to actually go into the loco itself to accomplish that, or is it something that can be accomplished remotely, say, through the Central Control?
(2) Am I stuck with a digital loco that cannot be controlled with a 6023 (or 6021)?
(3) If I ever solve the address problem, what, in plain English, is the usual sequence of buttons I typically need to push to control, say, any one of the four locos that I could theoretically have. The "Function" button, without any more explanation about exactly what it does, is not the easiest thing to figure out for someone new to Marklin.

I really appreciate any information anyone may have on this topic. PaulM
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 08 February 2016 08:26:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Paul,
Welcome to the forum.

Re 2: The loco can be controlled with the 6023 once the address was changed. The loco supports any address between 1 and 255.

Re 1: I know the 6021, but never had my hands on a 6023. Programming instructions for the 6021 can be found here:
https://www.maerklin.de/...ogrammieren_mit_6021.pdf
And there is the first catch: to change the address of the loco, you either have to use address 80 or the current address of the loco.
So to use the loco with the 6023, you need the help of a friend, club, dealer, ... who will change the address for you.
Once the loco is set to one of those four addresses you may even be able to change the address with a 6023.

You can buy e.g. a 6021, Mobile Station, Mobile Station 2 if you want to make the changes yourself.

Re 3: What the function button does depends on the loco. In most cases it controls the headlights.
As I understand it you have four loco buttons - and function will control the headlights of the loco you recently selected with one of the four loco buttons. Similarly the speed knob controls the speed of that loco.

A 6021 will give you 5 function buttons - nice for locos with more than one function. And it supports 80 addresses and changing loco addresses.


The logic behind the addresses? Maybe there is none.
10, 20, 30, 40 were chosen by a human. It could have been 01, 02, 03, 04. I think both sets are equally easy to remember.
The addresses 78, 72, 60 and 24 were chosen based on the pattern of decoders with DIP switches. This simplified the wiring inside the Delta controllers of that time. They were not chosen to be easily remembered by humans - but at least they make it easy to remember the DIP switch configuration needed on the decoders.
Since about 2004 decoders no longer have DIP switches.

For older locos with DIP switches you can set the address with a screwdriver (some locos do not have DIP switches and require a soldering iron to change the address).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 08 February 2016 09:20:35(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Paul,

In addition to Toms comments..

- a 6035 (Control 80) or 6036 (Control 80F) may be plugged into the right of the 6023 to provide access to all 80 addresses.
The "F" in "Control 80F" just indicates support for the 4 Extended function buttons F1-F4 - but the 6023 will ignore these.

If you can find a 2nd hand 603x this will be the simplest solution, as you can leave your locos unchanged and use them on either the IR unit or the 6023 without changing addresses.

- the 6023 has an integrated interface that may connect to the serial port of an old PC/Laptop. Like the 6035, this connection will also allow you to access the 80 addresses PLUS the 256 accessory addresses.

Depending on your inclination, you may find some existing software on the internet or you may be interested in a project for yourself and you son to try your hand at doing this yourself.

Comment, I do not want to suggest that the PC take over, quite the contrary. It is just a tool and in the most fundamental form your program may just allow you to type the address and use the up and down keys to increase/decrease the speed.
Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Rwill  
#4 Posted : 08 February 2016 12:51:06(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
My introduction to Marklin 28 years ago was through a start set which incorporated the 6023 which as you say has four specific lok addresses limited to one function and a keyboard facility for four accessories. At the time that was considered the bees knees and you could never envisage needing anything (or being able to afford) else! Over time I added as suggested above a 6036 control 80f and a 6040 keyboard and eventually a 6021 and I am now considering a MS2. My best ever purchase was Marklin 0303 a ring bound publication - Model railroading digitally controlled - written in English and not a German English translation. It accompanied me to bed, to the loo and in my briefcase to work. My wife used to say if I keeled over she would throw that in the box to keep me happy. It is not "up to date" but covered that era well. There is a pdf "copy" here: www.ebis.ca/marklin/0303/0303.html. On page 49 there is a short section on the 6023. As has been suggested you can add the components however buying things like an ebay or garage sale 6036 etc is always a bit risky I personally in the circumstances you describe would go straight into a MS2 and get the 29000 start set otherwise you will forever be trying to overcome a compromise.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Rwill
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 08 February 2016 21:00:29(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
While newer options "should" always have something to offer, I will happily stand up for the 6023/6035 as better option, even now.
Sure, age may have worn a few item, but the fact that they have lasted over 20 years says something - The MS1 on the other hand has died with far less of a struggle.

Subjectively,
- better ergonomic control - throttle
- tactile feedback - click of the buttons (the small rubbery excuses on the MS2 just do not cut it)
- Better ROI - If in the future another loco controller is selected, the 6021 may continue to be used for accessory control in a practical manner.

Objectively,
- (with 6035) quicker loco selection
- more power
- Computer interface (With ASCII and binary option)
- S88 feedback capabilities (up to 3 = 48 contacts)
- expandable with 6040 accessory control (Note: This is a cost proposition and the PC interface option may win out)

On considering operation use, a MS2 may have ....
- extended function support (F1-F15)

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
H0
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 08 February 2016 21:54:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
While newer options "should" always have something to offer, I will happily stand up for the 6023/6035 as better option, even now.
Sure, age may have worn a few item, but the fact that they have lasted over 20 years says something - The MS1 on the other hand has died with far less of a struggle.


Yeah, but the ms1 died for the same reason as the cs1 - its ESU heritage which went sour after the bust up between them and Marklin.
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 08 February 2016 22:16:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
No problems with my CS1.
One defective MS1 - warranty repair after 23 months.
One defective MS2 - warranty repair after about 2 weeks.

No reason for ESU bashing on my side.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 08 February 2016 23:20:03(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, but the ms1 died for the same reason as the cs1 - its ESU heritage which went sour after the bust up between them and Marklin.
I am not sure I agree that the CS1 is dead - I would (do) still use this item - plenty of ROI here (And I do not even have the reloaded variant)

And I really don't care who designed or made the MS1 unit , I simply do not think it was fit for purpose.
A good part of that equation, in my mind, is simplicity

I do take the point that the MS1 might better be compared with the Delta Control rather than a 6023.
This just reinforces the discussion on the comparison for potential ROI.




Peter
Offline Paul24  
#9 Posted : 09 February 2016 02:20:10(UTC)
Paul24

United States   
Joined: 07/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: California, Pleasant Hill
I sincerely appreciate all the helpful comments from the forum members who took the time to reply. I'm going to have to reread and reabsorb all the info in the comments so that I can make a sensible decision about how to resolve my particular problem, which is having a transformer and a controller but an immobile locomotive. I assume I'll gradually catch on to Marklin methods. Thank you so much. Paul24
Offline 3rail4life  
#10 Posted : 09 February 2016 06:33:13(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Hi Paul,

In my opinion, your best move here would be to return the 6023 & 6001 to the seller and look for a MS2 setup. The old Märklin digital equipment is cool and all, but the 6023 is just too limited by today's standards and is not well suited for use with current locomotives.

Gordon
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.674 seconds.