Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline kimballthurlow  
#1 Posted : 23 January 2016 03:22:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
Due to my lack of knowledge of the Marklin system, and not understanding the use of some components, I would very much appreciate some assistance with a project.

UserPostedImage


Track 1 is a main line, left bound (at all times for all trains).
Track 2 is a main line, right bound (at all times for all trains).
Track 3 is a relief track, and can be occupied by both right and left bound trains (not at the same time of course).
The coal train in the photo is not relevant to my query.

You can see from the photograph, that a left bound train is able to cross the right bound train at a diamond crossing. (Red arrows).
A hobby signal (perhaps a 74391) will be placed at the position at extreme left, shown by the little rectangle, with a piece of "isolated" track to halt the right bound train.
I want the signal to switch to Hp0 (Stop, red) when the 24611 turnout is switched to allow the left bound train to cross the diamond.

I already have:
1. Turnout 24611 with built-in electric solenoid (74490/1) to switch the route.
2. 72720 control box which I use for switching solenoid signals, I assume I can use this to control the turnout.

What device do I need to control the signal automatically from the switched turnout?

As a bonus, maybe I can use a parallel control to protect the 24711 turnout on the right bound track, if it is switched for a train coming in to that track.

PS: I already have a few digital signals, with intermittant problems, so I would rather stay with the traditional methods for this project.

Also,
Track 4 is a main line, left bound.
Track 5 is a main line, right bound.
Tracks 6 and 7 are sidings.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 28 January 2016 02:56:04(UTC)  | Reason: changed subject heading

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Gusaya45  
#2 Posted : 23 January 2016 05:56:20(UTC)
Gusaya45

Canada   
Joined: 14/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Due to my lack of knowledge of the Marklin system, and not understanding the use of some components, I would very much appreciate some assistance with a project.

UserPostedImage

You can see from the photograph, that I have a dual track, with the left bound train able to cross the right bound train at a diamond crossing.
I wish to place a hobby signal at position to the left shown by the little rectangle (perhaps a 74391), with a piece of "dead" track to halt the right bound train.
The signal will go to Hp0 (Stop, red) when the 24611 turnout is switched to allow the left bound train to cross the diamond.

I already have:
1. Turnout 24611 with built-in electric solenoid to switch the route.
2. 72720 control box which I use for switching solenoid signals, I assume I can use this to control the turnout.

What device do I need to control the signal automatically from the switched turnout?

As a bonus, maybe I can use a parallel control to protect the 24711 turnout on the right bound track, if it is switched for a train coming in to that track.

PS: I already have a few digital signals, with intermittant problems, so I would rather stay with the traditional methods for this project.

regards
Kimball

HI KIMBALL

YOU MAY NEED SOME 24994 OR 24995 and if you like your loco stop smooth you will add the 72442 to your 74391.let me know if you need help with the installation. by the way tell me which system you have, example cs1 ,cs2.
Regards
Gustavo
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 23 January 2016 21:31:11(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
May I suggest that you need to plan ALL your routes first, this includes the 24611 below the 24711 and any other 24711 below where you indicate the signal.

You should also plan for a signal at every entry point of a route (it would seem logical to combine the 24611 and 24711 identified above - if EITHER is Red' - with a single signal, but you also need one at the top right before the 24611 (double arrows). If your proposed operation is ever likely to allow trains to run in the reverse direction, then a signal in that direction also needs to be incorporated into your route logic.

Then you would need a "state" device (eg a relay/switch) to indicate which route is set
and another "state" device to indicate if the block is occupied/reserved (imagine a lokführer with a section tablet, or track permit).

Some logic to consider.
- A Signal may only be set to green if the route is in its favour AND the block is unoccupied,
- NO points may be changed and no signal may be set to green IF the block is occupied/reserved.
(for simplicity, the above presumes that it is the setting of a signal to green that also reserves the route. If you wish to separate these two functions, then a "signal to Green" would be permitted IF a route is reserved BUT ONLY IF the route/reserve was in its favour - as long as the block was unoccupied)


As to control, you may choose to just have buttons on your control desk to control the states.
The buttons on your control desk for any signals or points would not allow direct setting of the signal/point, but would trigger (inhibit) based on the two states.
Optionally you may -
- add a "block clear" sensor , that is triggered by the train, however this will need to take into account the MAXIMUM length of a train or your operation setup must have the trigger (e.g. magnet for a reed switch) ONLY on the rear most wagon/coach
- provide for a sensor to detect when a train has entered the block and trigger the relevant signal back to red.

Any "two" state device function (e.g. occupied v unoccupied) could be provided by a 7244 or equivalent
As the number of route permutations you are describing is more than two, this COULD be provided with multiple 7244s and a birds nest of wires, but might be more efficiently provided using the Memory function and some basic relays (e.g. 6084 or equivalent) to an S88
Peter
Offline kimballthurlow  
#4 Posted : 23 January 2016 23:15:48(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Gustavo and Peter,

Thanks for your input, it has got me thinking, and checking the possibilities.
I use a CS1, but I don't think the manner of train control is material to this project.
I may want the smooth stop brake module, but I would rather deal with the basic requirements first.

As to setting up routes, I am unwilling to motorise all my turnouts (most are accessible for manual control), so this does not figure strongly with me.
Block occupancy detection is something that I have never used, because my layout is a reasonably simple double track, all within a limited space.
I understand in this digital age, that I am not using complete functionality. Because it is a hobby, I need to be comfortable and in control
A signal at top right (outside of picture) is a possibility, but not a priority.
Yes, it does make sense to combine the functions of the 24611s and 24711s in the pic. (if I motorise them).
Trains will NOT run in reverse direction.

The whole idea is to stay with simple manual panel control of this project, which is to "protect" the diamond from right bound traffic.
I am not a fan of using my controller screen for accessories.
So when I switch the turnout to allow a left bound train to cross the right bound track, I want to stop any train that is travelling right bound.
Both a signal, and an isolated section of track for the on/off track current, will do.
In fact I could do without the signal, it would be for show anyway.

I don't need the 24994 or 24995, as these are controlled by the train, and not the turnout.
But I think I need the 7244 universal relay, which will be activated at the same time as the turnout mechanism.
From my reading of the Marklin controlling book (07421), it appears that if I connect the 72720 control panel to both the 7244 relay and the turnout mechanism, they will work in concert.

Peter, your mention of "state" device, has led me to follow this possibility.
The latest Marklin catalog (2014/15) showing the 74391 signal, says it can be controlled ONLY by the 72751 control panel.
I already have one of these signals, controlled by a 72750 panel, which I presume is the same and earlier version of the 72751.
The catalog also says: "The 74391 signal cannot be operated with other controllers."
Does that mean I am unable to control it using the 7244 universal relay??

I think the next step is to buy what I think I need, and see if it all works.
What I intend therefore, is the following connections:
1. 72720 panel to turnout motor/solenoid
2. Parallel this same connection to 7244 relay
3. 7244 relay to 74391 signal, which itself will control the isolated track section (on or off).

Do you see a problem with this?

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 24 January 2016 05:56:14(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

I use a CS1, but I don't think the manner of train control is material to this project.
I may want the smooth stop brake module, but I would rather deal with the basic requirements first.
Quite true,
I do however like to ensure that any path forward takes into account what is already at hand, and, while it may not be used as a package initially it is worth considering it for the future. Or at least not heading off in a totally incompatible direction

Re:
Quote:

... I am unwilling to motorise all my turnouts (most are accessible for manual control), so this does not figure strongly with me.
Presuming you do mean motorise and no digitise, I would suggest you reconsider.
By being able to reach across and change a point lever you are removing any protection that is available.
If you motorise and have the wire going to a button on your control desk, then it is possible to insert a switch (7244/relay) to inhibit this action if the conditions are not correct.

Re:
Quote:
I need to be comfortable and in control
DITTO

Re:
Quote:

A signal at top right (outside of picture) is a possibility, but not a priority.
Regardless of whether you have a physical signal is up to you, but you do really need a controlled dead section to prevent a train from entering the crossing if it is not permitted


Re:
Quote:

So when I switch the turnout to allow a left bound train to cross the right bound track, I want to stop any train that is travelling right bound.
Fair enough. But you also want to prevent/inhibit that action if the crossing is already reserved for right bound traffic

Re:
Quote:
... it appears that if I connect the 72720 control panel to both the 7244 relay and the turnout mechanism, they will work in concert.
Yep!, good old pedestal logic.

Re:
Quote:

The latest Marklin catalog (2014/15) showing the 74391 signal, says it can be controlled ONLY by the 72751 control panel.
I already have one of these signals, controlled by a 72750 panel, which I presume is the same and earlier version of the 72751.
The catalog also says: "The 74391 signal cannot be operated with other controllers."
.. actual , while the text page 272 does refer to the 72751 but doesn't use the term "only".

As well as your 72750, (which is functionally equivalent, but has other power considerations), the text further down the page does reference the use of a 60841. And this is something I think you could consider.
Put aside for the moment the fact that most would call this a digital device because you can also use it in analogue mode with a button wired to the appropriate contact in with a standard switch (72720).
BUT YES it would allow you in the future to work with your CS1! which is something the 7275x cannot.

Re:
Quote:

Does that mean I am unable to control it using the 7244 universal relay??
Principally correct - however, if you wish to get into a lot of extra wiring with some resistors etc, then it is possible.

If you only want one dead section then either the 7275X or 60841 can provide this. However, in context, the 7244 can work off the same button that I suggested for the 60841 input (This could be a 72720 or one from an electronics store). The 7244s other switch contacts would be use to inhibit/permit the switch of contra traffic.

Re:
Quote:

3. 7244 relay to 74391 signal, which itself will control the isolated track section (on or off).
As above, not an optimal solution, but possible with some wiring.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Shamu  
#6 Posted : 24 January 2016 10:55:49(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Hi Kimball,

I noticed you mentioned using 74391's...... I'd have to double check the paperwork but I picked up 20 of them (along with matching 74380's) about a year ago for absolute peanuts. I found a module from IEK (Signal-Decoder "Hobby") that will control 4 per unit and I'm fairly sure they will also control breaking sections and the points. From memory they were €44 a piece.

I had to do a translation of the instructions but will see what i did with them and post if i can find it. Will be a cheaper alternative than all the Marklin bits and bobs.

EDIT;

Found the instructions, they are a bit dodgy but you will get the gist Blink

IEK_SIG-DEC Hobby.pdf (1,155kb) downloaded 50 time(s).
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Shamu
Offline xxup  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2016 11:00:11(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
I have one of those IEK units. This one came from the Nifty Nev sell out in 2014. I made my own translation and you are welcome to a copy. It is on the layout and controls 4 of the hobby signals (also purchased from Nifty Nev)..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
Offline Shamu  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2016 11:23:14(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I have one of those IEK units. This one came from the Nifty Nev sell out in 2014. I made my own translation and you are welcome to a copy. It is on the layout and controls 4 of the hobby signals (also purchased from Nifty Nev)..



LOL, didn't everyone on the east coast get something from Nifty's clearance sale. I scored 5 semaphore 2 of the 76391's and a couple of boxes of god knows what. Might have even got one of the 5 IEK units from him as well.......... must give him a call and check on the young lad.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Shamu
Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2016 12:09:29(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
Miss 16 and I saw him just before Christmas. He was still alive at that time. I don't know if he will last much longer, when Rita finds out about his latest plan to extend the N scale railway in the garage. LOL
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by xxup
Offline kimballthurlow  
#10 Posted : 25 January 2016 00:04:17(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Shane and Adrian,
Thanks for your input.
I have read the instructions for the IEK, and it seems pretty straight forward.
I will give that a lot of thought, it appears to be a well thought-out alternative.
(including the fade in/fade out).

About 5 years ago, I sold all my 74391 signals, because I had successfully installed one digital 76391.
As it turns out, I don't like using the CS screen for accessory control, and the 76391 is as dodgy as all hell anyway.
So here I am back buying a 74391. :-)

Now to reply to Peter.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#11 Posted : 25 January 2016 00:47:48(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Peter,
Thanks for going to that effort to understand, and reply to my queries, I appreciate it.
In response, I have ordered a 60841 and will experiment with that.
Maybe that will give me new insights into how these devices can operate, and may to lead to a good understanding, and perhaps a more useful implementation of Marklins control systems.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
.... any path forward takes into account what is already at hand, and, while it may not be used as a package initially it is worth considering it for the future. Or at least not heading off in a totally incompatible direction


Noted, and thanks. My layout is physically complete, so there is no path forward, except for the type of controlling additions I propose.

Quote:
Presuming you do mean motorise and not digitise, I would suggest you reconsider.
By being able to reach across and change a point lever you are removing any protection that is available.
If you motorise and have the wire going to a button on your control desk, then it is possible to insert a switch (7244/relay) to inhibit this action if the conditions are not correct.


Good point, I should consider that as I gradually create the control additions I need. I do crash trains, and it is something I wish to avoid where possible.

Quote:
Regardless of whether you have a physical signal is up to you, but you do really need a controlled dead section to prevent a train from entering the crossing if it is not permitted.


Left bound trains have priority, are always permitted, which is why I want a single control from that turnout.
However, I do admit that if the destination track (it is a relief line) is occupied, as in the photo by a coal train, then permission should not be available.
This is something on which I rely visually, but maybe there is a future (by the classic Marklin ground occupancy method) to automate such a permission.

Quote:
.....But you also want to prevent/inhibit that action if the crossing is already reserved for right bound traffic.


True, except for my foregoing rule and note.


Quote:
.. actual , while the text page 272 does refer to the 72751 but doesn't use the term "only".
As well as your 72750, (which is functionally equivalent, but has other power considerations), the text further down the page does reference the use of a 60841. And this is something I think you could consider.
Put aside for the moment the fact that most would call this a digital device because you can also use it in analogue mode with a button wired to the appropriate contact in with a standard switch (72720).
BUT YES it would allow you in the future to work with your CS1! which is something the 7275x cannot.


My catalog is the 2014/15 version but I found the relevant pages. Now I am certainly up for a 60841 (ordered). Who knows where that will lead? More extensive control than I dreamed of perhaps.


Quote:
re: 7244 relay.....Principally correct - however, if you wish to get into a lot of extra wiring with some resistors etc, then it is possible.
If you only want one dead section then either the 7275X or 60841 can provide this. However, in context, the 7244 can work off the same button that I suggested for the 60841 input (This could be a 72720 or one from an electronics store). The 7244s other switch contacts would be use to inhibit/permit the switch of contra traffic.


I will experiment.
There will probably be more questions when I get to use the 60841.
By the way, a long time ago I was given about 5 of the k83 (the old 60830), I guess I could start experimenting with that?

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 25 January 2016 03:41:03(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
...By the way, a long time ago I was given about 5 of the k83 (the old 60830), I guess I could start experimenting with that?

Please do! This is goldmine stuff, what else do you have stashed away rearing to go.

At the risk of getting into "Nail soup" territory...
Given the agreed poor ergonomics of the CS1 for accessory(route) control, are you open to the idea of deploying a control board with a layout and switches of your own making. And feeding the switches into a S88 which can trigger both individual turnouts/points AND routes?

? Has your CS1 got the hardware upgrade module (Booster/Sniffer/S88)

? Do you have a S88, some wire and some switches.
personally I prefer the (on)-off-(on) toggle type rather using two pushbuttons
http://nz.element14.com/...-spdt-mom-off/dp/1550179

? Are you interested in a solid packaged variant of the 7244 (i.e. turns your k83s into k84s on a per port basis)
- uses a latching relay, requires a small amount of soldering , and diodes (1N4001/4).
I have a historic preference for the Panasonic unit with the way the pins are laid out conducive to veroboard construction. other options do exist.
http://nz.element14.com/...dpdt-30vdc-2a/dp/2103619
A k83 port can drive 2 of these so you end up with a 4PDT configuration , akin to the 7244.


Peter
Offline kimballthurlow  
#13 Posted : 26 January 2016 08:38:08(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Whooaa........!
Now these are things that will get beyond me very quickly, and I will lose any incentive I had.
BigGrin

My CS1 (v 2.0.3) is the latest that Marklin made, so I guess it has nothing special in it.

Anyway, controlling from switches on a board is OK, but first I will experiment with the few things I have ordered, and progress from there.
I like the look of the Panasonic latching relay, but having never employed relays on anything anywhere, I will first see how Marklin 60841 works, and progress from there.

Thanks, Peter.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2016 12:38:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Kimball there are several ways you can achieve this, via a route system or by a pulse system, the one I'm using (pulse system). whether you use switching tracks or my new design reflective opto couplers, the principal is the same.

you need a breaking module (for the train to brake slowly on track 2, signals of course which have no input regarding your train control.

what you need is: 1 braking module, 3 switching tracks

with this option you don't need a route.

to finalize it in simple terms, both track will always have a green/yellow green signal = trains traveling from right to left
I'm a bit mystified by the marked turnout 24711 and its function unless there is another train going from left to right on track 3 what is the purpose of this turnout ? as the train turning off from the right hand side is going over a crossing and not a double switch. if you have 2 trains traveling from left to right (track 2 and 3) than the situation would change again.

track 1 and 3 will determine which way the turnout is facing with the understanding they are going from right to left and no train is going from left to right on track 3 if this is the situation I would have to alter the configuration.

I would need some clarifications how many trains are passing from which directions on which track at the critical overlapping point. are you intending to manually operate the turnout going from right to left or are trains from this direction going to 1 train straight, 1 train turns off, 1 train straight ? or random ?

having another look at your track plan I assume track 2 from right to left, this track can be approached from both sides and if so I have to alter the configuration

John

Image (45).jpg
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline kimballthurlow  
#15 Posted : 28 January 2016 02:49:31(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi John,

Thanks for the very comprehensive diagram, your methods are certainly worth keeping in mind.
Can you tell me what these items from your diagram are:
1. the three connections box at middle left.
2. The S2 [G Y] box
3. The item at bottom right corner, you have three of these in your diagram.
UserPostedImage

I will not at this stage go with a braking module - I may do that in the future.

To explain, my layout is completely manually controlled by me, as the train driver, (via a CS1), there is no automatic operation or sequence.
The trackwork and operation thereon is quite rigid, in that left and right bound trains use left and right bound tracks respectively.
There is no random scenerio.

My photo should have explained the track relationships.

Track 1 is a main line, left bound (at all times for all trains).
Track 2 is a main line, right bound (at all times for all trains).

Track 3 is a relief track, and can be occupied by both right and left bound trains (not at the same time of course).
These trains come from or go to the main lines.

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
.....I'm a bit mystified by the marked turnout 24711 and its function unless there is another train going from left to right on track 3 what is the purpose of this turnout ? ...

The left most 24711 allows right bound trains to cross from relief to the 24711 on the main (Track 2). It will be possible (in the future) to use the SIGNAL to protect this crossing also.

Because of my limitations with electronics, I want to start with the solution to the immediate "problem", with as few components as possible.
Which is:
STOP a right bound bound train (Track 2), when the 24611 is switched from Track 1 to the crossing.
So I will start with the basic Marklin components first.
In fact I am thinking now to use just two separate control boxes, one to activate the turnout motor, and one to activate the signal.
I just need to activate both at the same time. SIMPLE!!!!

The following tracks are easily accessible for manual control of points, so will unlikely ever be motorised.
Track 4 is a main line, left bound.
Track 5 is a main line, right bound.
Tracks 6 and 7 are sidings.

At the moment I have ready, a hobby signal and control boxes (one for signal, one for turnout) so I can get started this weekend.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 28 January 2016 07:29:16(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Kimball, well this explains it more precise and I'm getting to know what you're after, as you explain the whole switching and direction process will there not be a time when 5 trains will cross this section in question and I wonder whether you have the ability to control them all at the same time. however the current issue is when a train goes from track 2 or 3 over the crossing while a train from track one turns off from right to left into track 3,

explanation:
the box with 3 dots and 2 signs are the turnout motors, the front sign --- is straight and the sign behind is turning off, the next box is the signal one dot is green and the other yellow, when the train goes straight the signal is green and when turning off its green and yellow. the other boxes are switching tracks but these can be replaced by pulse switches and operated manually as you intend to do so.


you've mentioned you're not going to motorize each turnout and this will mean that some turnuts in your picture such as turnout on track 3 facing left to right (24611) will stay in a straight position and when a train from track 1 goes into track 3 the turnout will use its spring tongue mechanism and possible turnout (24711) on track 2.

the braking module will provide you with 2 relays which you will have to use in any case. I don't know how far you want to go down the track to install signals when trains are converging with each other from one track to another.

my idea of controlling these trains manually is by stopping trains going from the left to the right (track 2 and 3), a.) this will always leave track 1 free whether the train turns off or goes straight, the difficult task is to determine trains coming from left to right (track 3 and trains from track 1 (right to left) who gets the priority over track 2 and 3 and track 1 and 3 (from right to left) in actual fact you could have 2 trains coming from track 1 and 3 (right to left). there is also a conflict over priority on track 4 and 5 (from right to left) and track 3 and 5 (from left to right), all in all it depends how many trains you are intending to operate and whether you can manage them.

as a helper one can't get the vision what your maximum amount of trains will be and how many times will it be, whereas how many trains will cross over this crucial junction.

the current setup you've got there is impressive but to analyze the full train operation is not distinguishable enough to be able to control each scenario when it unfolds.

In most cases it is completely clear for the inventor how it should function and his or her vision is also crystal clear in their mind and there are always scenarios in hindsight, I should have done it this way in the first place.
One has to ask oneself is it manageable, is it too complex or is it physically and mentally possible to control all these trains manually, I'm sure there are many modellers out there who have had done such tasks for years and years (analog)

What I can visualize is there could be a maximum of 5 trains arriving at this junction at the same time.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.775 seconds.