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Offline steventrain  
#101 Posted : 15 January 2016 17:47:06(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
60174 booster(s) can use with the 60216 - Marklin.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Dgriman  
#102 Posted : 15 January 2016 18:05:27(UTC)
Dgriman

Greece   
Joined: 12/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Alimos
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
60174 booster(s) can use with the 60216 - Marklin.



Hi steventrain,

That's for everything that supports can bus, they will work everywhere the same way, like 60883, 60653, 60174, etc. (at least I hope Laugh )
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Offline steventrain  
#103 Posted : 15 January 2016 18:57:16(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Can the 60213 connect to the 60216? What ref number is the cable between the 60213 CS2 and 60216 CS3plus?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Dgriman  
#104 Posted : 15 January 2016 19:18:06(UTC)
Dgriman

Greece   
Joined: 12/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Alimos
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Can the 60213 connect to the 60216? What ref number is the cable between the 60213 CS2 and 60216 CS3plus?


With 60123 cable, as cs2 to cs2

From the new items 2016 catalog (p151)
"A central station 2 (60214 - 60215 *) can be integrated in the same manner as the CS3+. Existing control with the new central units can thereby be expanded at any time."


*I do not know why they do not include 60213.
the old illustration that shows the interconnections with 60123 between cs2's, shows 60213.

CS2 Connections Map
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#105 Posted : 15 January 2016 20:54:35(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
I can't see actually any true operational diff between cs2 and sc3+


There are no operational differences. The only difference is that you need a CS3+ to be able to use the device as a remote controller, the CS3 does not have (one of) the necessary connectors to support this. You can also use a CS3+ as a remote booster. I'm not sure that those features are worth the 150 euro difference in price.........

Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
3. 32 functions for each locomotive !!!! Sorry m, I'm not looking to be octopus to use one locomotive, pulling the virtually switch to find that Special one function to hear the 4th horn, while wearing my classes for close reading.


LOL LOL LOL BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin - I agree!

Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
6. and last, my true worries are about software updates, I hope the new software that will come in the future, for updates of cs3, to continue support also the old version of sc2 and not become outdated. the same also with the upcoming decoders, supporting modules, locos etc...


I believe there will be at least 1 more software update for the CS2, Marklin originally suggested that it would be late 2015, but as that hasn't happened we hope it is not too far away.
Offline Sankch  
#106 Posted : 15 January 2016 20:55:20(UTC)
Sankch


Joined: 12/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Can the 60213 connect to the 60216? What ref number is the cable between the 60213 CS2 and 60216 CS3plus?


I was asking me the same question, as in Marklin new item catalog, when they refer to the cs2, they mention only 60214 and 60215.

So i wrote earlier today an email to marklin in order to have a answer. I will post here their reply.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#107 Posted : 15 January 2016 21:00:16(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
*I do not know why they do not include 60213.


I think that is because 60213 was the original version of the CS2. 60214 was touted as a 60213 with the updated software that allowed DCC running and additional CS2's to be used as a remote controller. Therefore, a 60213 that had the updated software applied to it effectively became a 60214!



Offline Dgriman  
#108 Posted : 15 January 2016 23:33:01(UTC)
Dgriman

Greece   
Joined: 12/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Alimos
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
*I do not know why they do not include 60213.


I think that is because 60213 was the original version of the CS2. 60214 was touted as a 60213 with the updated software that allowed DCC running and additional CS2's to be used as a remote controller. Therefore, a 60213 that had the updated software applied to it effectively became a 60214!





I agree with you, at the following illustration, you can see that m include both 213 and 214, so, the first maybe is before the version of 60214, and this one with 60214. In any case the connection between them is comming from Can bus, the only thing that is stramge to me, is we they say only 60123, as I know (forgive me if I'm wrong on that) but 60123 needs also the 60124 cable (the one to connect second mobile at 60113).


UserPostedImage


Another issue that is not absolutely clear to me, why should we have to interconnect cs's with special cable, while we can use the cheap local lan that supports long distance to other cs's, as tablets with wifi, or pc application ?

p.s. for the moment I have only one 60215, and I'm not thinking to get another one, only to just try things with more experiments.
My web directory for Model RailRoading (Greek and English Language)
http://trains.dgservices.gr
My Photo Album
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgriman/
My Video Channel
Trainsmodeler Video Channel
Thank you for visiting
Dimitris
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#109 Posted : 16 January 2016 00:20:45(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
.........as I know (forgive me if I'm wrong on that) but 60123 needs also the 60124 cable (the one to connect second mobile at 60113).


I don't think it does. I've just been playing with my 60123 cable (I don't have a 2nd CS2 but brought the cable in case I/we wanted a 2nd CS2 connected to our club's CS2). I wanted to see if it would work via a 60125 terminal box (the label on the 60123 cable says it does), as the 60123 is only 2 metres long, you need some method of extending it to have a remote CS2 any decent distance away from the master CS2.

Anyway, there is one socket on the 60125 that the 60123 plugs into (the single one on one side of the 60125 - 2 other sides have a pair of sockets and the 4th side has the incoming cable), and the other end plugs directly into the 6 pin socket on the CS2 that has a square with an arrow pointing inwards as a logo. The 60123 can also plug directly into a CS2 using the 9 pin plug end.

See https://www.marklin-user...onnect-a-CS2-to-Cs2.aspx

Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
Another issue that is not absolutely clear to me, why should we have to interconnect cs's with special cable, while we can use the cheap local lan that supports long distance to other cs's, as tablets with wifi, or pc application ?


I agree fully, why they didn't use a RJ45 ethernet cable (like they did with CS1) instead of the Mickey Mouse method they did use, I'll never know. Whether it is a hardware limitation with the CS2 - CAN bus related?? (unlikely I would have thought) or a nefarious plot to make us all buy expensive cables and terminals (more likely), common sense seems to have not prevailed.

Offline H0  
#110 Posted : 16 January 2016 07:56:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
Another issue that is not absolutely clear to me, why should we have to interconnect cs's with special cable, while we can use the cheap local lan that supports long distance to other cs's, as tablets with wifi, or pc application?
The special cable transports the track signal, allowing AUX CS2s to be used as boosters. This was not possible with a LAN connection.
The LAN connection could be an alternative for those who don't need the booster.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline clapcott  
#111 Posted : 16 January 2016 11:19:52(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Lets take a step back for a minute.

There is nothing new in the inter-connection of the CS2 to the 6021, the CS1 or with, other CS2s or with PCs (including smart phones as mobile throttles)
The CS3 appears to be a simple variant of the CS2<->CS2 inter-connect, which is via the system bus. (using the 60123 cable)

As to the marketing blurb that neglects to include the 60213, this may be a typo. . . . . .
However I think there is a need to differentiate between "will work" and "will work with limitations"

To this end I note the following.

The 60213 is NOT the same as the 60214 (As with the 60173 NOT being the same as a 60174). The track output for 60213 and 60173s needed to be isolated at BOTH the rail(Brown) and stud(Red) when crossing booster sections.
Refer http://www.maerklin.de/d...ationen/booster-upgrade/

So in this case the limitation inferred may be that the 60213 is not 100% compatible as a booster. If may (should?) be operationally OK as just a slave throttle or layout/memory console. BUT there may also be a software/resource limitation whereby the internal memory/processor is not able to be updated to a level that will allow functional interoperability. I would hope that a software connection would at the very least be be possible, but it maybe of reduced function if there is a resource issue.



Tom has already referred to the fact that an ethernet connection does not provide for 100% in sync track signal (Ethernet is, in this respect asynchronous , and IP is a loosy protocol) . This is why the (early) architecture diagram that included the CS1 connection, via an ethernet connection, specifically showed that its section of track was NOT connected to the layout controlled by CS2 and boosters. While the content of the signal information may have been the same the pulses/timing could never be guaranteed to be sychronised.

It is imperative that, at any transition from one booster section to another (including the CS2/CS3 internal booster), the track signal be in sync and only a fixed clock via the system bus will provide for this. You can forget about a network communication protocol ever achieving this!

For those that care, you may want to research the Connect-60212 product - This was an adapter for the CS1 to connect to the CS2 via the system bus (e.g. see in the 2008/9 catalogue). This may have provided the in-sync alignment we are talking about but it was never ever delivered. instead we ended up with the TCP/IP connection we have now over the ethernet.


The 6017(6015) legacy support also needs to be analysed. . .
Depending on which version of information you read, interoperability, like the original CS1 interoperability, was depicted with a totally separate section of track - i.e. you should not run a train from a CS2 track section into a 6017 section.
While we know , from experience, that this "can" be made to work it has its operational problems. Also we have to appreciate that the CS2(or CS1) with its mFX read-back capability puts an onus on decoders to send information onto the track that the 6017 was never designed for. So while the 6017 and the locomotiev decoder may be able to "tolerate" it, there is prudence to be had from relegating the 6017s use to a separate circuit (e.g. the k83/k84 accessory bus)
Peter
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Offline Goofy  
#112 Posted : 16 January 2016 11:23:22(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post


I agree with you, at the following illustration, you can see that m include both 213 and 214, so, the first maybe is before the version of 60214, and this one with 60214. In any case the connection between them is comming from Can bus, the only thing that is stramge to me, is we they say only 60123, as I know (forgive me if I'm wrong on that) but 60123 needs also the 60124 cable (the one to connect second mobile at 60113).


UserPostedImage


Another issue that is not absolutely clear to me, why should we have to interconnect cs's with special cable, while we can use the cheap local lan that supports long distance to other cs's, as tablets with wifi, or pc application ?

p.s. for the moment I have only one 60215, and I'm not thinking to get another one, only to just try things with more experiments.


This show of the chart tells to me about Märklinist madness,by expand digital system. ThumbDown
One CSx,tracks and locomotives is enough.
Just put locomotive on the track and start drive! ThumpUp

LOL

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#113 Posted : 16 January 2016 13:03:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

I can't see actually any true operational diff between cs2 and sc3+

As I understand things,
1. the build in s88 Connection sounds to me that cs3+ include a small version of L88, that supports the NEW s88 with Ethernet. So maybe the old flat ribbon cable is a history, except if you want to use the original L88 with connection to can bus.

2. the bigger screen is useless, because the make screen bigger but they remove the function buttons, so if you want to use them you will take space from the screen as they are virtually.


I think they have done a sensible thing with the function icons - hide them away so you can have a track diagram on the screen to allow operation of the points etc, then pop out the functions by touching the loco item when they are needed. It doesn't make sense to have the loco controls cluttering the screen and the track diagram hard to get at when you need it. The loco speed on a bar graph makes a heck of a lot of sense instead of the graph used on the cs2.

If only they had applied this screen system to the cs2 - maybe in the update that gives us the 32 functions, but I'm not holding my breath.

Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post

3. 32 functions for each locomotive !!!! Sorry m, I'm not looking to be octopus to use one locomotive, pulling the virtually switch to find that Special one function to hear the 4th horn, while wearing my classes for close reading.


You don't need to be an octopus. But I do wonder what useless things they see these functions being used for. They already seem to be putting useless things on functions with only 16 functions available.

Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post

4. how many versions of CS3... we are going to see, we had 3 versions of cs2 (60213 ~ 60215) with many hardware versions for each of them .... !!!


I think at least two of those versions were to get around hardware problems that they hadn't anticipated (but possibly should have!!). The last version was to provide a higher output power for G1 and LGB. I would think that the lessons have been learnt, and there will only be the cs3 versions we see in the NI brochure until it is time for a cs4.

Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post

5. what do you think about that "Central Station 3 plus is multiple device capable" what do you think it means, interconnections between many cs3+ to share the layout, or to be together one next to other making one big screen extended to many CS3+ ?

6. and last, my true worries are about software updates, I hope the new software that will come in the future, for updates of cs3, to continue support also the old version of sc2 and not become outdated. the same also with the upcoming decoders, supporting modules, locos etc...


Dimitris


I suspect that one of the cs3 products will drop out in time. I cannot see the rational for the difference between them. If the idea was to use the cs3 as controller in the mega start sets ((and why are there no mega start sets announced in the NI?) it is not cheap enough. I still get the feeling they should have one with a single control knob and built in wifi to allow cell phones and tablets to be used as controllers with the app without additional hardware.

Maybe they will come up with a 29001 kit that will have a cs3 instead of an ms2 ...
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Offline Dgriman  
#114 Posted : 16 January 2016 14:55:06(UTC)
Dgriman

Greece   
Joined: 12/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Alimos
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
.........as I know (forgive me if I'm wrong on that) but 60123 needs also the 60124 cable (the one to connect second mobile at 60113).


I don't think it does. I've just been playing with my 60123 cable (I don't have a 2nd CS2 but brought the cable in case I/we wanted a 2nd CS2 connected to our club's CS2). I wanted to see if it would work via a 60125 terminal box (the label on the 60123 cable says it does), as the 60123 is only 2 metres long, you need some method of extending it to have a remote CS2 any decent distance away from the master CS2.

Anyway, there is one socket on the 60125 that the 60123 plugs into (the single one on one side of the 60125 - 2 other sides have a pair of sockets and the 4th side has the incoming cable), and the other end plugs directly into the 6 pin socket on the CS2 that has a square with an arrow pointing inwards as a logo. The 60123 can also plug directly into a CS2 using the 9 pin plug end.

See https://www.marklin-user...onnect-a-CS2-to-Cs2.aspx



Ops !!! then, the cable I have is not 60123, and if it is not 60123, which one is !!! Scared
I need to make a research what cable is the one I use for railuino (it is long, about 2 meters, the one side is a male 10 pole mini din, the same as the one we found at mobile station, and the other side is also a male 8 pole mini din, that fits with the female one at cs, named Sx)

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post
Another issue that is not absolutely clear to me, why should we have to interconnect cs's with special cable, while we can use the cheap local lan that supports long distance to other cs's, as tablets with wifi, or pc application ?


I agree fully, why they didn't use a RJ45 ethernet cable (like they did with CS1) instead of the Mickey Mouse method they did use, I'll never know. Whether it is a hardware limitation with the CS2 - CAN bus related?? (unlikely I would have thought) or a nefarious plot to make us all buy expensive cables and terminals (more likely), common sense seems to have not prevailed.


I believe strongly, with all these technology, we have start loosing the point of our hobby, always for me the target was the trains, and I thought, that the technology should serve our hobby, and now I see that the roles have change some how, we serve technology with all these we need to learn to make a locomotive run. Sad , and as I see this, we are the "victims" of a high tech war between companies for the smartest, most functional, most intelligent system. Sad

Of course I will continue learning and experiment, but is awful, my job comes into my hobby !!!

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Offline Dgriman  
#115 Posted : 16 January 2016 15:01:02(UTC)
Dgriman

Greece   
Joined: 12/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Alimos
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Lets take a step back for a minute.

There is nothing new in the inter-connection of the CS2 to the 6021, the CS1 or with, other CS2s or with PCs (including smart phones as mobile throttles)
The CS3 appears to be a simple variant of the CS2<->CS2 inter-connect, which is via the system bus. (using the 60123 cable)

As to the marketing blurb that neglects to include the 60213, this may be a typo. . . . . .
However I think there is a need to differentiate between "will work" and "will work with limitations"

To this end I note the following.

The 60213 is NOT the same as the 60214 (As with the 60173 NOT being the same as a 60174). The track output for 60213 and 60173s needed to be isolated at BOTH the rail(Brown) and stud(Red) when crossing booster sections.
Refer http://www.maerklin.de/d...ationen/booster-upgrade/

So in this case the limitation inferred may be that the 60213 is not 100% compatible as a booster. If may (should?) be operationally OK as just a slave throttle or layout/memory console. BUT there may also be a software/resource limitation whereby the internal memory/processor is not able to be updated to a level that will allow functional interoperability. I would hope that a software connection would at the very least be be possible, but it maybe of reduced function if there is a resource issue.



Tom has already referred to the fact that an ethernet connection does not provide for 100% in sync track signal (Ethernet is, in this respect asynchronous , and IP is a loosy protocol) . This is why the (early) architecture diagram that included the CS1 connection, via an ethernet connection, specifically showed that its section of track was NOT connected to the layout controlled by CS2 and boosters. While the content of the signal information may have been the same the pulses/timing could never be guaranteed to be sychronised.

It is imperative that, at any transition from one booster section to another (including the CS2/CS3 internal booster), the track signal be in sync and only a fixed clock via the system bus will provide for this. You can forget about a network communication protocol ever achieving this!

For those that care, you may want to research the Connect-60212 product - This was an adapter for the CS1 to connect to the CS2 via the system bus (e.g. see in the 2008/9 catalogue). This may have provided the in-sync alignment we are talking about but it was never ever delivered. instead we ended up with the TCP/IP connection we have now over the ethernet.


The 6017(6015) legacy support also needs to be analysed. . .
Depending on which version of information you read, interoperability, like the original CS1 interoperability, was depicted with a totally separate section of track - i.e. you should not run a train from a CS2 track section into a 6017 section.
While we know , from experience, that this "can" be made to work it has its operational problems. Also we have to appreciate that the CS2(or CS1) with its mFX read-back capability puts an onus on decoders to send information onto the track that the 6017 was never designed for. So while the 6017 and the locomotiev decoder may be able to "tolerate" it, there is prudence to be had from relegating the 6017s use to a separate circuit (e.g. the k83/k84 accessory bus)


Excellent Analysis !!! respect !!! ThumpUp
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http://trains.dgservices.gr
My Photo Album
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My Video Channel
Trainsmodeler Video Channel
Thank you for visiting
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Offline H0  
#116 Posted : 16 January 2016 18:21:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The 60213 is NOT the same as the 60214 (As with the 60173 NOT being the same as a 60174). The track output for 60213 and 60173s needed to be isolated at BOTH the rail(Brown) and stud(Red) when crossing booster sections.
The old 60214 have 2.4 A track output and do not have the galvanic insulation, so technically they are identical to the 60213.
The new 60214 are identical to the 60215.
Some 60214 are the same as the previous 60213.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#117 Posted : 16 January 2016 20:56:52(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some 60214 are the same as the previous 60213.


Yes, Tom is correct. My 60214 has the same hardware version as a 60213 (v3.1), so they are similar (no galvanic isolation, 2.4 amp booster) apart from the software version installed OOB. I think it was hardware version 4.2 or 4.3 (something like that) where the 60214 had galvanic isolation and a 5 amp booster.

However, I can use my 60214 with the 60174 boosters, in fact I have two 60174 boosters to the layout and no track connection from the 60214 CS2.
Offline Webmaster  
#118 Posted : 16 January 2016 21:22:35(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I'm a bit disappointed that the touch screen is just marginally bigger than the current one.
There is still a lot of dead unused surface at the top of the unit due to the design of the box...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline db ice3  
#119 Posted : 16 January 2016 23:40:31(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The 60213 is NOT the same as the 60214 (As with the 60173 NOT being the same as a 60174). The track output for 60213 and 60173s needed to be isolated at BOTH the rail(Brown) and stud(Red) when crossing booster sections.
The old 60214 have 2.4 A track output and do not have the galvanic insulation, so technically they are identical to the 60213.
The new 60214 are identical to the 60215.
Some 60214 are the same as the previous 60213.



so how tell tell which 60214 you have? ... the 1 like 60213 or like 60215?

Offline H0  
#120 Posted : 16 January 2016 23:44:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
so how tell tell which 60214 you have?
The newer ones have a sticker at the bottom, indicating the galvanic insulation. You can also tell it from the hardware revision the CS2 shows on one of its screen, but I don't have the version numbers at hand.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mbarreto  
#121 Posted : 17 January 2016 00:04:09(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257

What arguments one can have to buy a CS3 instead of a CS3+?

1- If one wants to have one or more slave CS3, then the CS3+ is the only option
2- If one already have S88 (6088 or 60880) modules and insists in connect them directly to the CS3, although that is not necessary if a L88 60883 (80 euros max.) is used. IMHO the L88 is preferable.

I am not having more ideas to justify it and considering just the ones above I think very few of us need the + version.

Do you know more reasons to buy a CS3+?

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline mbarreto  
#122 Posted : 17 January 2016 00:12:51(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257

I forgot to write a doubt I have: I didn't find specification about the power supplies that must be used with the new CS3s, so one must assume the current existing ones for the CS2 are the ones to use, right?

It was very good the power supply was bundled with the CS3, but knowing M as we do, that is difficult to happen...

The current CS2 power supplies are not dark grey and so I have many doubts they can work well with the new CS3s LOL
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#123 Posted : 17 January 2016 00:43:33(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
The current CS2 power supplies are not dark grey and so I have many doubts they can work well with the new CS3s LOL


Then you will have Grey matter coming out of your CS3 than rather than Dark matter! OhMyGodBlink
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Offline Dgriman  
#124 Posted : 17 January 2016 00:48:45(UTC)
Dgriman

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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some 60214 are the same as the previous 60213.


Yes, Tom is correct. My 60214 has the same hardware version as a 60213 (v3.1), so they are similar (no galvanic isolation, 2.4 amp booster) apart from the software version installed OOB. I think it was hardware version 4.2 or 4.3 (something like that) where the 60214 had galvanic isolation and a 5 amp booster.

However, I can use my 60214 with the 60174 boosters, in fact I have two 60174 boosters to the layout and no track connection from the 60214 CS2.


My First CS2 (60215) the hardware was version 4.3, the one that give me problems with updates and i send it back to m to repair it, if you remember the story from this topic https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/m483504-CS2-GFP-v2-43--downgrade#post483504



The NEW 60215 that i receive from m, have hardware version 5.1.

I have one feeling, there is a mess with all these versions of everything, article number, hardware version, software version, tfp version, database version, Linux version, boot version .... Confused

how peaceful period of life was the 6021 ERA BigGrin Flapper
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Offline Dgriman  
#125 Posted : 17 January 2016 01:00:12(UTC)
Dgriman

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Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I'm a bit disappointed that the touch screen is just marginally bigger than the current one.
There is still a lot of dead unused surface at the top of the unit due to the design of the box...


I agree with you, and I'm afraid that we will see many versions of CS, before we see an almost borderless screen, like new monitors and tablets.
It is absolutely true, if I say that I prefer to use all from my ipad than from cs, do not say that the best configuration for me, was, is and will be a pc with large touch lcd monitor !!!
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#126 Posted : 17 January 2016 01:00:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
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Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
so how tell tell which 60214 you have?
The newer ones have a sticker at the bottom, indicating the galvanic insulation. You can also tell it from the hardware revision the CS2 shows on one of its screen, but I don't have the version numbers at hand.


The 60214 had galvanic isolation and 5 amp booster from hardware version 4.33 onwards.
Offline Dgriman  
#127 Posted : 17 January 2016 01:07:23(UTC)
Dgriman

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Location: Alimos
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

What arguments one can have to buy a CS3 instead of a CS3+?

1- If one wants to have one or more slave CS3, then the CS3+ is the only option
2- If one already have S88 (6088 or 60880) modules and insists in connect them directly to the CS3, although that is not necessary if a L88 60883 (80 euros max.) is used. IMHO the L88 is preferable.

I am not having more ideas to justify it and considering just the ones above I think very few of us need the + version.

Do you know more reasons to buy a CS3+?



I think the equal version to older CSs is the CS3+ (60216) , the other version 60226, is a limited version, and so far we haven't see the small letters under it. So maybe there are more limitations than the ones we know. I'm afraid that the interconnections will be limited to more things, maybe no connection from pc, or maybe will not offer connection to tablets (these are thoughts and no rumors, I do not know really what other limitations may have), who knows !!!. We should better wait to see it live !!!

Also I can not understand why the old CS2 (60215) remain more expensive than the new CS3+ (60216) !!!
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#128 Posted : 17 January 2016 01:31:51(UTC)
NZMarklinist

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Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Hi All,

CS3 now on youtube ;

EN


DE


Looks Good ThumpUp possibly every thing that has been asked for Wink


Edit;
Yes well, sorry, I hadn't read the previous page, but to answer a few earlier questions;

It seams the colour could be dark grey, not black Blink

A wifi router will be required to connect I Thingys

A network connection is there ThumpUp

The present MS2 will remain, (newer ones (at least in the new starter sets) seem to be upgraded to the new (Dark Grey ?) colour)

Not previously asked but............!

The Lok icon on the bottom corners of the larger screen opens up a three row (24 function) keyboard, which probably expands to four rows if a 32 function decoder is present. Also a touchable throttle scale is there for the Lok ThumpUp

There are two touch stop buttons at the top corners of the screen, as well as the familiar BB one at the bottom of the unit ThumpUp

The screen size appears as if the old one was expanded over the old tactile buttons. I would guess the physical size of the CS3 is the same as the CS2

The drop down menu from top of screen gives access to the CS3 menu, then an accessory screen with 8 of the last used accessories ready to hand, but there is three more pages for a total of 32 accessories, and probably more readily available from the top of screen drop down menu.

It seems as if the track diagram, has it's own dedicated button at the bottom of screen ("is always the centre piece") ThumpUp Altho that menu button could be the help menu !?

With the faster processor all sorts of improvements will come, notably better Cab Control screens in MWO, at first bigger ones at least Wink
Maybe live video !?

Also note three USB ports Smile
An icon on one of them suggests an auxiliary power supply (for just the controller) can be plugged in. I would also have a guess that the new decoder programmer can be plugged in here too !?

There are two card slots, at least on the RH side, one for Lok cards, and one for an SD card !?

The 4 GB internal memory can be expanded to 32 GB, (see above)

There is an internal speaker, ThumpUp and stereo ones can be connected (as with CS2)
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#129 Posted : 17 January 2016 03:21:34(UTC)
NZMarklinist

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Whomever the Moderator is that hamfistedly locked my topic on the video and credited it steventrain as first posting is quite wrong as arnpao from Italy posted it first. Glare

I was going to add the information from my post above to it, which meant it became a factual thread not filled with idle speculation and guesses about Maerklin's new Controller

Also there's only one "n" in my name Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#130 Posted : 17 January 2016 05:52:22(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Whomever the Moderator is that hamfistedly locked my topic on the video.....


Twasn't me - I was going to merge the 2 topics but saw it had been locked. I left it like that because the forum's merge function is not working too well, and it is some effort to merge topics.

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
........credited it steventrain as first posting is quite wrong as arnpao from Italy posted it first.


Actually, Stephen did post it first, but in the '2016 New Items' thread. Later on I posted the English video into that thread after someone published the link.

Arnpao did not post the video to this thread - he created a new thread, and since there was already a CS3 thread, I merged them - hence my 'Topics merged' post earlier in this thread.
Also member BestRipper also created a thread with the CS3 video in it which I merged with this thread, so yours was the 4th thread opened on the CS3. No need for 4 threads all on the same topic - such is the life of a Moderator.

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
I was going to add the information from my post above to it, which meant it became a factual thread not filled with idle speculation and guesses about Maerklin's new Controller


Well, you will get speculation when Marklin post webpages in their product database on the new CS3, and then remove them a few hours later. I'd rather keep one thread on the CS3 simply to keep all info in the one place, speculation and hot air notwithstanding.
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Offline nitramretep  
#131 Posted : 17 January 2016 16:33:39(UTC)
nitramretep

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Location: lower hudson valley, ny
I agree with the comment regarding the slight screen size increase. I also wonder what the real connection is between the CS3 and a PC; the scematic shows it as being direct, I think it is via a router or switch. Marklin should be a little more forthcoming regarding these marketing tools and videos.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#132 Posted : 17 January 2016 18:06:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
The current CS2 power supplies are not dark grey and so I have many doubts they can work well with the new CS3s LOL


Then you will have Grey matter coming out of your CS3 than rather than Dark matter! OhMyGodBlink


LOL LOL LOL LOL Please don't turn him into a Goofy Scared

But realistically I would expect the existing cs2 power supply to be suitable for the cs3 or cs3+.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#133 Posted : 17 January 2016 18:10:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: Dgriman Go to Quoted Post

how peaceful period of life was the 6021 ERA BigGrin Flapper


yeah - but the 6021 went through a number of software updates, you just don't know which one you have, and it wasn't ever published that there was a change. I guess if it was sent back to Marklin it might have been upgraded if the fault was something related to the software, but the only way to update it was to change the pre-programmed microprocessor chip.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#134 Posted : 17 January 2016 18:18:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post

Also note three USB ports Smile
An icon on one of them suggests an auxiliary power supply (for just the controller) can be plugged in. I would also have a guess that the new decoder programmer can be plugged in here too !?


Someone suggested it is for charging the battery operated My World trains ... Cool

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post

There are two card slots, at least on the RH side, one for Lok cards, and one for an SD card !?

The 4 GB internal memory can be expanded to 32 GB, (see above)


I presumed that is by adding a USB drive or SD card. I haven't seen reference to a cover that can come off to fit RAM internally.

Offline H0  
#135 Posted : 17 January 2016 18:55:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Also note three USB ports Smile
An icon on one of them suggests an auxiliary power supply (for just the controller) can be plugged in.
Nope. Two USB ports for USB devices, one USB port that only provides power.

So there are three ports that can be used to charge smartphones or My World trains, but only two can be used for mouse, keyboard, and thumb drive.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mbarreto  
#136 Posted : 17 January 2016 21:18:17(UTC)
mbarreto

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Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
The current CS2 power supplies are not dark grey and so I have many doubts they can work well with the new CS3s LOL


Then you will have Grey matter coming out of your CS3 than rather than Dark matter! OhMyGodBlink


LOL LOL LOL LOL Please don't turn him into a Goofy Scared

But realistically I would expect the existing cs2 power supply to be suitable for the cs3 or cs3+.


Off course I was kidding ;) If M connects it to IBM's Watson, then it may seem CS3 as grey matter inside ;) and who knows what can happen to our locos Blink

About the Power Supplies from CS2 to be usable with CS3, I think it is desirable too, but it is not super critical. I say this because if you
sell your CS2, you will probably do it with the power supply. If you want to keep your CS2 working as a slave of the CS3 (with so many possibilities for client devices it will not be a must..) then you also need the power supply you already have. Only if you intend to kepe your CS2 boxed in the shelf or as a collectable item you may be interested in use your CS2 PS to power the CS3.
Off course there maybe other use cases, but probably not so probable...



Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline Bigdaddynz  
#137 Posted : 18 January 2016 00:46:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
.......but the 6021..........you just don't know which one you have........


Actually, I don't believe that is true......(I haven't tried this myself)

If I recall correctly, this tip came from Tom (H0)

"Typing "94" and then "93" should flash the LED once, twice, or thrice - depending on the firmware of the 6021"
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H0
Offline NZMarklinist  
#138 Posted : 19 January 2016 04:01:12(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post

Also note three USB ports Smile
An icon on one of them suggests an auxiliary power supply (for just the controller) can be plugged in. I would also have a guess that the new decoder programmer can be plugged in here too !?


Someone suggested it is for charging the battery operated My World trains ... Cool

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post

There are two card slots, at least on the RH side, one for Lok cards, and one for an SD card !?

The 4 GB internal memory can be expanded to 32 GB, (see above)


I presumed that is by adding a USB drive or SD card. I haven't seen reference to a cover that can come off to fit RAM internally.



I'm surprised the CS3 is equipped with a charge port for My World Trains as those younger operators would not normally have a CS3 !?
That said, the new Description on the M website mentions two usb hosts for mouse keyboard and usb stick, and 1 usb loading socket"
see; http://www.maerklin.de/e...s/details/article/60226/
and; http://www.maerklin.de/e...i1%5Bsubgroupchoice%5D=0


Alan, the video shows an SD card caricature, appearing in the slot as they talk about expandable memory, logical and simple too, and less likely to get accidentally disconnected, and it is mentioned in the new product descriptions on the M website (which I think were posted in the last day or so)
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline H0  
#139 Posted : 19 January 2016 07:42:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
I'm surprised the CS3 is equipped with a charge port for My World Trains as those younger operators would not normally have a CS3!?
Maybe rather for the smartphone and tablet users.
Wireless control with a charger wire is not really wireless - but playing is not over when the battery is low.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#140 Posted : 19 January 2016 12:24:09(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post

Also note three USB ports Smile
An icon on one of them suggests an auxiliary power supply (for just the controller) can be plugged in. I would also have a guess that the new decoder programmer can be plugged in here too !?


Someone suggested it is for charging the battery operated My World trains ... Cool

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post

There are two card slots, at least on the RH side, one for Lok cards, and one for an SD card !?

The 4 GB internal memory can be expanded to 32 GB, (see above)


I presumed that is by adding a USB drive or SD card. I haven't seen reference to a cover that can come off to fit RAM internally.



I'm surprised the CS3 is equipped with a charge port for My World Trains as those younger operators would not normally have a CS3 !?
That said, the new Description on the M website mentions two usb hosts for mouse keyboard and usb stick, and 1 usb loading socket"
see; http://www.maerklin.de/e...s/details/article/60226/
and; http://www.maerklin.de/e...i1%5Bsubgroupchoice%5D=0


Alan, the video shows an SD card caricature, appearing in the slot as they talk about expandable memory, logical and simple too, and less likely to get accidentally disconnected, and it is mentioned in the new product descriptions on the M website (which I think were posted in the last day or so)


Oh, I dunno, charging juniors train on dads layout, sounds reasonable to me BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

But it doesn't make sense to me to provide the socket without full USB functionality. That is real weird. If you have a mouse and keyboard plugged in where are you going to plug the USB stick to upgrade or backup? Just doesn't make sense.

Maybe that port has higher current capability than the other two, that would make more sense.

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Offline Mark5  
#141 Posted : 19 January 2016 19:02:16(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
How about a charge port for future plug and play wireless controllers that Märklin might be planning to come out with in the future, like the ESU one discussed here on another thread? Save a bit on having a dedicated iPhone or iPad to use a s a controller. After all you might want to answer calls when you control your trains. BigGrin
- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#142 Posted : 19 January 2016 20:33:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
But it doesn't make sense to me to provide the socket without full USB functionality. That is real weird. If you have a mouse and keyboard plugged in where are you going to plug the USB stick to upgrade or backup? Just doesn't make sense.


I agree!

Offline Hackcell  
#143 Posted : 19 January 2016 22:25:08(UTC)
Hackcell

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Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
But it doesn't make sense to me to provide the socket without full USB functionality. That is real weird. If you have a mouse and keyboard plugged in where are you going to plug the USB stick to upgrade or backup? Just doesn't make sense.


I agree!



Perhaps that's one of the reasons behind of the SD card slot. If both ports are busy, you can upload sounds/updates using it.

Danilo Jiménez
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Offline Sankch  
#144 Posted : 28 January 2016 07:21:30(UTC)
Sankch


Joined: 12/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: ,
In the latest Märklin Magazin 1/16 you will find an article about the new CS3 and CS3Plus. Just a simple presentation and a few facts on 4 pages.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#145 Posted : 28 January 2016 09:17:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Location: New Zealand
There's a few minutes on the CS3 in Episode 76 of Marklin TV. In the video Marklin confirms that the difference between the CS3 and CS3+ are the S88 port options and the ability to use the CS3+ as a remote controller.

The SD Card slot can be used to increase the internal storage of the CS3 from 4Gb to 32Gb.
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Offline clapcott  
#146 Posted : 28 January 2016 19:34:22(UTC)
clapcott

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Originally Posted by: Sankch Go to Quoted Post
In the latest Märklin Magazin 1/16 you will find an article about the new CS3 and CS3Plus. Just a simple presentation and a few facts on 4 pages.

The 01.2016 Marklin Insider News is also available online - but not a peep about the CS3
http://www.maerklin.de/f...01-2016_012616_EN_rp.pdf

So much for any premium an Insider might have in being kept informed about the latest offerings
Peter
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Offline steventrain  
#147 Posted : 29 January 2016 18:04:20(UTC)
steventrain

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CS3Plus video - Moving loco icon from loco list to control knob by touchscreen at 2.08

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline nitramretep  
#148 Posted : 29 January 2016 20:23:51(UTC)
nitramretep

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Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
I am not in love with all the touch screen features. Glad you posted this thread as I was comparing my CS2 to the new CS3 and think I will stay with my CS2. I have Tablet and the screen is always covered in goo from other peoples fingers not to mention the concessional over eager finger pressure marks or dings. I like the CS2s side switches that are quite functional and though it may have lower resolution it still seems adequate if not perhaps as good.
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Offline NewComix  
#149 Posted : 29 January 2016 22:29:55(UTC)
NewComix

Germany   
Joined: 17/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Harsefeld, Niedersachsen
Hi,

Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
But it doesn't make sense to me to provide the socket without full USB functionality. That is real weird. If you have a mouse and keyboard plugged in where are you going to plug the USB stick to upgrade or backup? Just doesn't make sense.


Plug in a wireless nano router into the network port and use the USB Port near to it for the power of the Router/Access Point - now you have a CS3 with WLAN - does it make sense?

Kind regards
Jörg


Offline clapcott  
#150 Posted : 30 January 2016 10:40:41(UTC)
clapcott

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Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
<Just thinking out loud>

Pending some hard facts, that will probably only emerge after the device is deliverd.....

One of the points that nags me about the marketing hype for the CS3 is the statement ".. the processor alone is about seven times the speed of is predecessor...."

At a very fundamental level ...
If I overlay Moores law on the CS2 and its GA in 2008 (4Q=Fall), surely the intervening 7(8) years would warrant a compound 5 fold increase - i.e. 16 times the processing power ?

However the bit that really concerns me is the insistence, by the way the message is phrased, that there might only be ONE processor.
I really would hope that there would be dedicated processors (not just multicores) ....
- for the track management (sending information and retrieving mFX data) - lets call it a Track Control Processor
- for "system bus" priority stuff - especially S88 and mfX via Booster feedback
- for network stuff (ethernet, MS App and other parasitic software
- the GUI (including mFX+ CAB mode rendering)
- Sound processor (internal/external speaker)

Given the bloat-ware associated with the help assistant and the fancy layout editing function, I would really hope that this would have zero impact on the essential business of train messaging (i.e. a dedicated processor).


Another , slightly conflicting set of statements, is seen regarding the compact memory expansion. either it is UP TO 32GB or AN ADDITIONAL 32GB
However , with current standards supporting petabytes and current devices supporting 100s of GB , why would you make such a limiting statement. It is not as though Marklin are selling Compact Memory devices and have a competitive view of things.

</Just thinking out loud>

P.S. is it just me , or does the touch/screen behavior shown in the few emerging videos, appear "sluggish" when compared to what one expects from a tablet/smartphone these days
Peter
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