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Offline DaleSchultz  
#1 Posted : 03 January 2016 03:24:31(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I have spent some time recently updating my software to do the right thing with my distance signals.

I have made two videos which you can find at http://cabinlayout.mixmox.com/1/Distance_signals

The first video shows how the main signals and the distance signals flow down the route ahead of a train.

The second shows how the system can handle distance signals that server multiple main signals (due to one or more turnouts between them) and also how multiple Vr signals can serve any given Hp signal, due to converging tracks.

All this came about because I was about to install a pair of combination signals (HpVr) at two tracks that come into my main station, and I realized that I would then have at least one track with an exit signal that would need to be served by more than one distant signal. So it was time to get back into the code!

For some time I have had a single HpVr signal serving multiple main signals and that was all working fine.

I ended up rewriting all my signal code because I also wanted it to work across chained routes and also have the Hp1 signals properly walk down the route ahead of the train. This was also implements a while back but the interaction of one to many and many to one distance signals combined with that called for a new approach!
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 03 January 2016 03:46:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,716
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Dale, I still have to come to turns with signals and one day will spend more money to put the correct signals for the correct location. What you have done and shown us is amazing, its a proper train control system on a smaller scale, congratulations and what an effort.
one question: how can one person oversee all the changes made by the computer signal operation which I assume have different windows to look at what is going on, in the end it is up to the person who is at the controls physically to oversee everything works fine and is on track. unless you have certain amounts of monitors whereas you can watch all the operations and movements and signal changes taking place.
I assume this code configuration has more to do with being authentic than what you need personally to see what's going on

John

Edited by user 09 January 2016 06:03:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2016 13:04:05(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Dale, I still have to come to turns with signals and one day will spend more money to but the correct signals for the correct location. What you have done and shown us is amazing, its a proper train control system on a smaller scale, congratulations and what an effort.
one question: how can one person oversee all the changes made by the computer signal operation which I assume have different windows to look at what is going on, in the end it is up to the person who is at the controls physically to oversee everything works fine and is on track. unless you have certain amounts of monitors whereas you can watch all the operations and movements and signal changes taking place.
I assume this code configuration has more to do with being authentic than what you need personally to see what's going on

John


If you wish to learn about German signalling, the German Railway Society (based in the UK, but has world wide membership) have three excellent booklets that take you through the German signalling system, the notations used, and how they are numbered. It also covers a little of the signalling linked to points.

I'll take a picture of my set later on and find some prices - but I will tell you this, it is cheaper to become a member of the GRS and purchase them at members rates than to purchase them at non-members rates. They are not cheap, but for those who don't have access to German sources they are about the most comprehensive source of information on German signalling.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Robert Davies  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2016 13:29:13(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

If you wish to learn about German signalling, the German Railway Society (based in the UK, but has world wide membership) have three excellent booklets that take you through the German signalling system, the notations used, and how they are numbered. It also covers a little of the signalling linked to points.

I'll take a picture of my set later on and find some prices - but I will tell you this, it is cheaper to become a member of the GRS and purchase them at members rates than to purchase them at non-members rates. They are not cheap, but for those who don't have access to German sources they are about the most comprehensive source of information on German signalling.

These were a Christmas present to me from my son this year and I have had my head buried in them ever since. While I have a reasonable understanding of German signalling principles and they haven't taught me that much at a basic level, I have picked up a lot of details such as track and point numbering and also a lot about the history of signalling in Germany and some of the underlying principles. For someone whose German is pretty basic, these are to be recommended.

On the other hand, if your German is good, you cannot beat the 4 MIBA Reports on "Signale". The first three by Stefan Carsten cover principles and the layout of equipment while volume 4 covers modelling.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2016 15:22:30(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
My layout diagram all fits onto one screen and it shows the track, train, signals, schedule as well as additional buttons and control to switch things on and off etc.

Some of the signals in hidden areas are virtual, they exist only in the track definition, but display correctly on the screen. The purpose of these is for cab views in which someone is viewing the track as if from the cab of a train, so those signals appear to them too. It is possible to drive the train manually from a cab view, so the signals are important, especially in hidden areas!

The computer screen and the layout are in synch with each other so one can be looking at the layout or the screen and see the signals. Control of the layout is certainly possible by one person, the computer does all the booking, speed regulation, loco functions, turnouts, signals, sound effects and even station announcements. Routes can schedule additional routes so the whole thing can run for as long as there is no derailment or shorts.

I can click on signals on the screen to change their aspect manually if I want to, but the computer sets them all for me.

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Dale, I still have to come to turns with signals and one day will spend more money to but the correct signals for the correct location. What you have done and shown us is amazing, its a proper train control system on a smaller scale, congratulations and what an effort.
one question: how can one person oversee all the changes made by the computer signal operation which I assume have different windows to look at what is going on, in the end it is up to the person who is at the controls physically to oversee everything works fine and is on track. unless you have certain amounts of monitors whereas you can watch all the operations and movements and signal changes taking place.
I assume this code configuration has more to do with being authentic than what you need personally to see what's going on

John

Edited by user 04 January 2016 18:04:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Mark5  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2016 05:53:22(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Hi Dale,

Thanks so much for posting your progress here and the other posts about the Viessman 5211 (k83 type) kits.

First question is, do you have photos of how you have the light signals on the same post... I read your post carefully and watched your short animations a number of times and I am unclear about how you have multiple distance signals working with multiple main signals. How would the driver or the signal know which main signal it is indicating. Does that change depending on the availability of the track, and/or does the driver just trust that the signal would be for any of the possible main signals it is about to encounter on the available track. I know of course, this is functioning automatically, but just to imagine how the prototype would correspond to the lokführer's/driver's decision making process with the model and visa versa.

Secondly, I like the idea that the lights dim off slowly as with the prototype, when you use the V-5211. So, a more general question: I was wondering if this could be achieved with K83 or M83 by using a capacitor before the power source of the bulb, without messing up the signal.

Thanks again for posting your work. Great to see how things onscreen can correspond to the actions in real time.
Do you use VB for your programming or something else?
- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 08 January 2016 19:03:41(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Hi Mark,

A good bunch of questions...

1. When a distance signal is on the same pole as a main signal it looks like this:
distant on same pole

The distance signals always indicates the aspect of the next main down the line. The driver has to trust that the signals are correctly set and locked. You cant have the driver making decisions, it has to be exactly right. In practice, the signalling around a station is designed with locking systems so that the signals and turnouts can never be out of synch.

2. The dimming of the lightbulbs is done by the Viessmann 5210 module, not the 5211 which is used to trigger the different aspects on the 5210 module.
See http://layout.mixmox.com/1/signals-1 for how they are arranged.

the digital signal goes through a 5211(=k83) which sets the aspect in the 5210 - which sends DC current to the signals.

--------> [ 5211 ] === [5210] ------ HpVr

The DC current to the signals fades from the nominal voltage to zero to simulate the bulb fading out.

It is probably possible to do this with a capacitor, but you need to also latch the aspect once triggered by the 5211/k83 or use k84 type moduels that keep the current on. If you go that way you also have to control each light independently to do Vr2 and Hp2 signals etc. I.e. it is much simpler to use their module.


Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Dale,

Thanks so much for posting your progress here and the other posts about the Viessman 5211 (k83 type) kits.

First question is, do you have photos of how you have the light signals on the same post... I read your post carefully and watched your short animations a number of times and I am unclear about how you have multiple distance signals working with multiple main signals. How would the driver or the signal know which main signal it is indicating. Does that change depending on the availability of the track, and/or does the driver just trust that the signal would be for any of the possible main signals it is about to encounter on the available track. I know of course, this is functioning automatically, but just to imagine how the prototype would correspond to the lokführer's/driver's decision making process with the model and visa versa.

Secondly, I like the idea that the lights dim off slowly as with the prototype, when you use the V-5211. So, a more general question: I was wondering if this could be achieved with K83 or M83 by using a capacitor before the power source of the bulb, without messing up the signal.

Thanks again for posting your work. Great to see how things onscreen can correspond to the actions in real time.
Do you use VB for your programming or something else?
- Mark

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 09 January 2016 06:16:28(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,716
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Well I have through a friend from Berlin (Bernd) got circuits board made up to simulate the fading in and out of signal lights and I'm chucked with it, there is a restrictions what I can do at the moment, either red-green or yellow to green to red, no shunting signal or any other combinations have been designed as yet but I can't see any reasons why distance signals cannot be operated in the same manner.

I'm slowly in the process of putting all my electronic modules together which include:

1.) reflective coupler module
2.) braking module
3.) Signal fading in-out module
4.) a slow tongue K-track turnout operation via an ESU servo motor coupled to an ESU Switch Pilot servo module

its slightly off topic but I've included the whole parcel.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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