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Offline clapcott  
#1 Posted : 12 December 2015 11:05:36(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The 72760 Signal control box has recently started shipping.
Märklin Service have promptly replied to my request for a copy of the manual.

I have to say I am still in shock, and I must be on quite a different planet.
Where do these guys get their ideas.

While I still have some questions outstanding about the implementation, the big surprise is that each of these boxes in a cut down (MM) digital controller which simply issues commands to addresses 1-4. (But you need a CS2 to set the address on signals that don't have physical address switches)

My immediate reaction is that a cut down controller is great, but why to I need (to pay for) one for each group of 4, surely an auxiliary (72561?) can provide addresses 5-8 (etc) THROUGH the base control unit and be at a far more justifiable price.

Price aside the ergonomics of a tactile control box has its attractions.
But to be serious about this Marklin should also have telegraphed a unit for turnouts (maybe a 72762 similar to the 72752)

Unfortunately the unit expects you to use fixed length cables (as with the 72751/2) with their own costs.

The power supply needed, but not included, is the now standard 66361/5

I have previously expressed my incredulity that the 72751 has a single, green, LED against each button.
When showing the Hp0 aspect there is no indication.
This shortcoming has, unfortunately, been propagated to the 72760

If you take the price out of the equation, would any of you use one of these boxes?
Peter
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Offline petestra  
#2 Posted : 14 December 2015 13:21:37(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi Peter. Thanks for your posting. I thought that I would order one of these so as not to tie up one of my 2 MS2s. Can I use the 72760 with an

MS2? Thanks, Peter Confused Confused
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 15 December 2015 08:40:29(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: petestra Go to Quoted Post
..... so as not to tie up one of my 2 MS2s.

Yes the MS2 has long been in need of a complementary , ergonomic, device for accessory control.
This is one solution. (The only current one from Marklin)

Quote:

Can I use the 72760 with an MS2?

These devices work along side whatever other controller you have , there is no interconnect electrically for the control aspect - (the signals have a relay that can control the track power, but that is quite separate from the control)

You could even use the 72760 and signals with an analogue controller.

The manual , attached, needs to be taken with quite a bit of salt. Especially in the cabling diagrams which are flawed. (e.g the 71054 cable, which already exists as an extension cable for the Hobby 72751/2 has a male and a female end, The socket needs an adapter to be able to plug unto the left/right side of the 72760.
refer
http://www.maerklin.de/f...art_up_2015_Internet.pdf
- schematic on pg60 (note small un-numbered cable to the left of the 72751 and 72752 - this ships with these units and is just a couple of inches long)
- 71054 cable image on pg62


242327_72760_Stellpult_Profisignale.pdf (9,711kb) downloaded 167 time(s).

Edited by user 15 December 2015 18:49:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#4 Posted : 19 December 2015 12:44:43(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The manual , attached, needs to be taken with quite a bit of salt. Especially in the cabling diagrams which are flawed. (e.g the 71054 cable, which already exists as an extension cable for the Hobby 72751/2 has a male and a female end, The socket needs an adapter to be able to plug unto the left/right side of the 72760.
refer
- schematic on pg60 (note small un-numbered cable to the left of the 72751 and 72752 - this ships with these units and is just a couple of inches long)
- 71054 cable image on pg62

Can't you just use the little included cable as the adapter for the 71054 and extend your cable that way?

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 19 December 2015 20:08:37(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post

Can't you just use the little included cable as the adapter for the 71054 and extend your cable that way?


Probably... as long as you are not referring to the power adapter cable for adapting from the 66361/5 barrel plug shown in Fig.1.

I was highlighting the point that the documentation is silent on the aspect of any other cable and actually provides misinformation by showing the 71054 plugged directly between two 72760s
Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 12 January 2016 09:32:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Just for completion, a picture of the BoM and Contents list.
As noted in the documentation - no screws provided !

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


Some closing comments.

* This unit is frustratingly useless for 3/4 aspect signals

* The unit works fine when wired into a m83

* As the connection is the same as that from the StartUp InfraRed UglyBox 194548, you do not (initially) need to buy a separate Power Supply.

* (Better) Alternative include dusting off that 6020 and using a 6040.

* a nice "testbed" setup - but not much more.

* The 8 ports on the back are identical (just commoned Red/Brown ). But only 4 cables provided

* The output cables (red/brown for direct plugging into signals) have a length of 1800mm each

Peter
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Offline Rwill  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2016 00:12:44(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Ok bear with me for a dumb request/response, which may even go slightly off topic.

My set up is currently a 6021 plus a keyboard and a white and black transformer all on k track. We have four k83 decoders that obviously "fill" the keyboard capacity. Lets say there are 16 turnouts (in fact there are a couple more near the operating chair which I flick manually) and half a dozen uncouplers which are wired back to an old fashioned (6210?) control box.

I fancy trying out a couple of signals and find that all my old 7239/40 etc have not survived storage and we have no control capacity anyway and have been eyeing up a couple of 76493's for inclusion in the March birthday list.

It seemed to me that one of these control boxes 72760 was my eureka solution but now you may now have put me off!

So first dumb question - for a 76493 is that one and a half switches on either a control box or keyboard?

Second DQ -Where would the control box get its power or is it just a brown and red from the line?

Third DQ - for all the points raised is a 72760 a workable and sensible
solution?

So my thoughts are should I ditch the 6021/keyboard set up in favour of a mobile station 2? A second hand ebay keyboard seems almost as much as a good offer on a new MS2. I am slightly worried in that I like the good solid click feeling of control 80f and keyboard and am not the worlds greatest operator of things like mobile phones, big, old pudgy fingers and a befuddled brain about a century behind on technology - I still have a fax machine!!! I also have an irrational longing to find a 6043 memory and see if I can master that. My March birthday is the big one -at 65 I officially become retired so I will have time but not pots of money so like a lot of things in my life despite my lustful longings my Marklin set up will not have great expansion in the future

I am worried about the natural expiry of the 6021 over time - we have a sticky number 2 and the reversing knob seems to need quite a bit of force to action. 2 is the most popular number in my lok codes and I know I could renumber a few, my brain has just about remembered them now ( hey there's not hundreds more like 10!) and I know its possible on a 6021 but renumbering my little kof away from 23 is too hard!

Enough of my rambling any response would be gratefully received!
Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2016 00:46:24(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I am only too happy that you are thinking this through before potentially wasting money on an unsatisfactory solution

Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post

So first dumb question - for a 76493 is that one and a half switches on either a control box or keyboard?

No, you really have to reserve 2 pairs (not one and a half)

This relates to my prior comment about "This unit is frustratingly useless for 3/4 aspect signals"
How the 72760 works is that send a pulse for a particular aspect BUT the buttons are latchon/latchoff type.

Setup = 76493 set to address 1/2
So if you set a 76493 to Amber (2nd button on 72760 down) and then set the signal to green (1st button down - Note 2nd button still shows green!)..
If you now want to set it to amber again you have to toggle the 2nd button off then on (Note 1st button light does not change and is thus also misleading) . In doing so any device with half its address on 2Red will be affected.

For 2 aspect signals this is "OK"

Quote:

Second Q -Where would the control box get its power or is it just a brown and red from the line?

Absolutely not from your 6021 brown/red
By design you need to buy a 66361 for power

Quote:

Third Q - for all the points raised is a 72760 a workable and sensible solution?

I personally do not think so.

For the price of a single 72760+66361 you would be well on your way to getting a 2nd 6040 (all be it 2nd hand)

Quote:

.. should I ditch the 6021/keyboard set up in favour of a mobile station 2?

Absolutely not ditch!!.

By all means consider a MS2 for its more modern locomotive capabilities (mFX, DCC, FX(81-255), LokCard) but I would keep your 6021/6040 for just the accessories anyway
(Totally separate Brown/Red wiring buses).

RE....
Quote:

.. I like the good solid click feeling of control 80f and keyboard ...

DITTO !!

RE...
Quote:

I also have an irrational longing to find a 6043 memory and see if I can master that.

Personally , I think this is an excellent challenge.

However, be aware that the 6043 has a battery that will have expired (unless serviced) and just as probably leaked - corroding the circuit board.
If you do find a 2nd hand one do not buy it sight unseen. Only buy it if the battery hasn't already leaked AND replace the battery anyway!

Re:
Quote:

I am worried about the natural expiry of the 6021 over time - we have a sticky number 2 and the reversing knob seems to need quite a bit of force to action.

This may be a driver towards a MS for loko control, however I would still retain the sub-system for your accessories.

You may find that a bit of maintenance, (contact cleaner on the keypad contacts) and a check of the shape of the reversing contacts will allow for another 30 years of service. Failing that, a second (second hand) 6036 Control80F may be worth considering.

"Click" aside the MS is OK for a throttle, as long as you do not have to juggle screens if you also have your accessories connected to it
Note: However, if your trains are of a generation where you have lighted carriages with old, power hungry, bulbs, the 6021 does still provide more power than the MS.
Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by clapcott
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