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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 22 November 2015 16:25:43(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
As some of you may know, I recently purchased a great Roco starter set that included a Roco Ice train.

I am happy with the Ice train especially because it is fast (seems faster in digital than analogue), but it does have a pretty important flaw: the couplers.

Rather than being the normal train couplers with a hook of sorts, they are made of plastic. You need to physically push (pretty hard) to make them couple onto the receptacle of the other wagon/engine. To undo them, you then have to do the same things.

If you try to just pull apart the wagon and the engine, you risk breaking the receptacle. I almost did that when I tried to couple them the first time and had the wagon and engine onto the track. Scared

What you need to do is turn them upside down, and holding them on your lap you fumble with the under carriage so you hold tight the receptacle while you insert the plastic "arrow", being careful not to damage the pantograph (that never seems to want to stay down). ThumbDown

This would be bad enough, but when you try to attach the THIRD piece, you then really have to do a balancing act to assemble the train holding the two pieces already assembled and trying to attach the third one. Trying to put a fourth or fifth wagon would be next to impossible.

Seems a silly way of making the train assemble and takes away from the pleasure of owning the train.

Question: Are ALL Ice trains like this? I mean Marklin and other makes as well?

Thank you.

Silvano


Offline Unholz  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2015 17:06:46(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
I have the Marklin ICE-S Insider model no. 39710. On this item, one also has to push very hard to connect the couplers, but it doesn't seem likely to break something. However, every time when trying to uncouple the individual cars, I fear that damage will occur because the couplers are very tight and I can't see any easy separation method (like inserting a small screwdriver or pressing something together).

It seems as if the manufacturers think that these railcars are assembled only once and then stay like this forever. ThumbDown
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2015 17:41:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
It seems as if the manufacturers think that these railcars are assembled only once and then stay like this forever. ThumbDown
Märklin's ICE 3 has different couplers. The manual explicitly states "Avoid coupling and uncoupling the cars frequently."
I think this type has 8 small contact pins - and care must be taken not to bend any of the pins accidentally.

I think the Senator from Märklin has even more pins. And I know two club members who managed to bend some of the pins.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2015 17:46:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
maybe you need one of these to store the train once you have it assembled.

When I visited Tom's (HO) group last year a number of the members brought pre-assembled consists along in the travel version. There is an adapter that plugs onto your favourite track system and then the unit plug into that to drive the train out and in.

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Offline baggio  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2015 19:47:32(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I went on the website and they look very nice. Maybe I should buy/make a simple one for myself.

Thank you for sharing the info, Kiwi. BigGrin

Ho, what happens if one or two pins get bent out of shape? Can you pull them out and keep going or ... Scared ?
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2015 20:27:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
what happens if one or two pins get bent out of shape?
Sometimes you can bend them back, sometimes they will break off when you try.
If the pins are used for sounds or lights only, the train will still be able to run, but with some malfunctions. If the pins are used for power (slider change-over), then the train won't run at all.

In the worst case you have a dead seven-piece train and you don't know where the problem is and you have to check all six connectors.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2015 02:54:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
any pictures of the couplings (Roco ICE train) ?
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline baggio  
#8 Posted : 23 November 2015 03:09:17(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
No, but they are very easy to picture:

Two small arrows (one for each set of two wagons or wagon and loco; one slightly longer than the other one.), made of plastic, the size of a match for cigarettes. The points are hooked, like an appetizer fork.

Each goes into a tiny receptacle, much like regular wagon receptacles.

Hope this helps.
Offline baggio  
#9 Posted : 23 November 2015 03:58:47(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
On second thought, I did get two extra couplers, so I attach a picture of the instructions on how to couple the train (fig. 1) with a "picture" of the couplers at the very bottom. (The "picture" is not very clear, sorry.)

Couplers for Ice train with instructions.pdf (49kb) downloaded 89 time(s).
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 23 November 2015 06:46:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
On second thought, I did get two extra couplers, so I attach a picture of the instructions on how to couple the train (fig. 1) with a "picture" of the couplers at the very bottom. (The "picture" is not very clear, sorry.)

Couplers for Ice train with instructions.pdf (49kb) downloaded 89 time(s).


it doesn't look like an electrical coupling, this is an ordinary coupling if you are concerned why not use different Roco couplings ?
so far connecting all the carriages, yes it can be painful and this also applies to my Roco 4 pin electrical couplings sometimes you can slide them together but if this doesn't work you can ruin the whole alignment of the pins, hence I lay the whole train (as you've done) upside down and than carefully connect each carraige holding both coupling shafts, turning them up again making sure you don't have too much of an angle and I agree with you there is a danger of braking the coupling shaft. you need enough room to do this otherwise your chances of breaking it increases.

right I just had an other look at these couplings and the standing up not lying down. so an ordinary coupling wouldn't work, back to square one.
Ok another option is not separating the train, or get an ordinary coupling cut the end off and rotate it by 90° and superglue it. I've done similar ones whereas I've drilled a hole into the end bit just between the split tongue and drilled a tiny hole as well into the coupling itself and pushed a wire through and super glued it. it involves some work and craftsmanship.

I can make you some up if you like.


Roco ICE0000.JPG


Roco ICE0001.JPG


the Märklin ICE 1 had similar couplings but they had a male and female fitting and this was much easier to separate.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline baggio  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2015 14:22:40(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Thank you, Zig Zag, but I am going to leave the plastic couplers as they are.

I am thinking of making something like the company Kiwi indicated and carry the whole train on and off the track as a set.

I think the manufacturers somehow assume that once you put the train on the layout, there it stays for good. If so, not a sound assumption.

Incidentally, the battery Ice train by Marklin has magnetic couplers that work VERY well. You can take the train apart and put it back together without a problem (except for the engine and the permanently attached first wagon). ThumpUp Somehow, I assumed the more expensive Ice train would be the same way....
Offline Unholz  
#12 Posted : 23 November 2015 14:41:14(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Incidentally, the battery Ice train by Marklin has magnetic couplers that work VERY well. You can take the train apart and put it back together without a problem (except for the engine and the permanently attached first wagon).


Such current-conducting magnetic couplers already exist also for more sophisticated products and might be an alternative to the delicate ICE couplers - see here (sorry, in Italian language only, but the pictures should speak for themselves Wink ):

- http://www.trainpassion....;link=11&_height=100
- http://www.almrose.it/prodotto/8-104103/

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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 23 November 2015 15:44:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Incidentally, the battery Ice train by Marklin has magnetic couplers that work VERY well. You can take the train apart and put it back together without a problem (except for the engine and the permanently attached first wagon).


Such current-conducting magnetic couplers already exist also for more sophisticated products and might be an alternative to the delicate ICE couplers - see here (sorry, in Italian language only, but the pictures should speak for themselves Wink ):

- http://www.trainpassion....;link=11&_height=100
- http://www.almrose.it/prodotto/8-104103/



Stefan, the only problem with the Roco ICE couplings they are not horizontal but verttical

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline baggio  
#14 Posted : 23 November 2015 19:29:24(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Why do you say that, John?

They go parallel to the wagon/engine, below the carriage. They are horizontal. Take another look at the diagram.
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