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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2015 20:41:03(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I am going to make some drastic changes to my simple layout. I am thinking of either using R3 curves (Marklin) or R4 curves (Roco, they are the same size).

I am wondering if instead I could not just add mid-way through the semi circle in R2 a 1/2 piece of straight track rather than buy a new set of R3 track. I have done something like this and seems to work.

However, a clerk in a store suggested that this is not a good idea because I break the continuity of the curve and the wagons end up getting a jolt.

What do you think?

Thanks.
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Offline jcrtrains  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2015 21:02:39(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
The broader the curve, the more realistic the longer carriages and engines look. Maximize the radius and also the switch length.
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Offline baggio  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2015 21:11:02(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
What does "switch length" mean?
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2015 21:29:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
However, a clerk in a store suggested that this is not a good idea because I break the continuity of the curve and the wagons end up getting a jolt.
If the cars have close couplers with guiding mechanism then the train will be longer in curves than on straight track. Mixing curves and straight track will increase the stretching and contracting.

I'd do this only to get larger radii that are not available out of the box. Or for testing/temporary layouts.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jcrtrains  
#5 Posted : 20 November 2015 21:43:25(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
What does "switch length" mean?


Switch length and radius of the curve in the switch. In K track parlance, the 2262 is shorter and less radius than the 22715.

Many other track manufacturers refer to switch length in the standard NMRA numbers of 4, 6 or 8. I believe someone makes a 5 as well. A number 4 is 15" radius and a number 6 is 43". In general, I have number 6's on the mainline and passenger station and number 4 everywhere else.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2015 23:41:41(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Yes, and there is more to this: easements. I described them in another thread.

The late John Armstrong addresses and illustrates this topic here ("The Mighty Bantam"):

https://books.google.pt/...%20armstrong&f=false
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 21 November 2015 00:42:05(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I am going to make some drastic changes to my simple layout. I am thinking of either using R3 curves (Marklin) or R4 curves (Roco, they are the same size).

I am wondering if instead I could not just add mid-way through the semi circle in R2 a 1/2 piece of straight track rather than buy a new set of R3 track. I have done something like this and seems to work.

However, a clerk in a store suggested that this is not a good idea because I break the continuity of the curve and the wagons end up getting a jolt.

What do you think?

Thanks.


Hi,
Marklin trains are designed to stick to the rails like glue.
And that is how they behave on my layout.
There is no problem introducing a straight anywhere between curve pieces.
Like you say, in a 180 degree arc it can achieve the same width as a larger radius.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 21 November 2015 09:04:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Marklin trains are designed to stick to the rails like glue.
That's the rule. There are some exceptions to the rule.
Some trackplans help to find those exceptions.
Another rule of thumb says that problems increase when trains get longer. A 10-piece TGV may behave different than a tank loco with 3 Donnerbüchsen coaches.

Trains will run smoother if you can use a larger radius without straight tracks between curves.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 21 November 2015 11:29:11(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
I am even more concerned about aesthetics - i.e. the appearance of coach consists - than "jolting". Besides the easements issue, the variety of M* curve segments allows for a continuos curve without short straights in-between.
:o/
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Offline baggio  
#10 Posted : 22 November 2015 04:50:42(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Thank you, everyone, for your helpful feedback. ThumpUp

What I am thinking of doing is to put together 5 concentric loops. The first one (R0, since it does not exist in the Marklin C track; in fact, I will Use K track and it will be a dual loop, AC-DC).

The second and third one will be Roco analogue tracks (R1 and R2 in Marklin parlance, but R2 and R3 in Roco parlance). These will be joined by one or two sets of turnouts (which you guys call "switch" or "points", I am not sure what the difference is).

Then I will use two sets of Marklin R2 curves that I already have, but will expand them with straight track in order to reach about a size R3 and R4 and I will see what happens. I'll let you know.

This exercise,however, will have to wait for a while since I first need to find the space in my basement for the extra length of track. Blushing

Have a great Sunday, everyone.

BigGrin
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 22 November 2015 08:46:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
These will be joined by one or two sets of turnouts (which you guys call "switch" or "points", I am not sure what the difference is).
America and Britain are two nations, divided by a common language.
"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language." (Oscar Wilde)

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#12 Posted : 22 November 2015 09:25:46(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
These will be joined by one or two sets of turnouts (which you guys call "switch" or "points", I am not sure what the difference is).
America and Britain are two nations, divided by a common language.
"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language." (Oscar Wilde)



Yeah.. Tell us about it.. The language is called English and invented by the (wait for it) English.. Then the Americans come along and misspell key words like colour and Sulphur. Then they mess around with the grammar of the language. Laugh Don't get me started on what they did with the imperial measurement system - the gallon that is not a gallon.. LOL I really feel sorry for anyone trying to learn English.. I really understand and support the French efforts to keep their language pure..
Adrian
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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 22 November 2015 10:05:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I wish they would make televisions specifically for America so if you buy an Australian television American programmes are automatically banned and deleted but let any interesting and educational program go through.

We don't use the word trash its called rubbish here but you can't change it and I hate this and when you put the word colour you get corrected by the spelling of color., I hate this, and than there is the date we write 21/11/2015 but the American way is 11/21/2015, I hate this BigGrin
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline baggio  
#14 Posted : 22 November 2015 15:31:01(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
"we write 21/11/2015 but the American way is 11/21/2015" not necessarily.

NEVER trust a date given in numbers only because is is not guaranteed that the writer/company wrote the date in any particular order. For this reason when I look at a receipt, I am never sure what the date was that I made a purchase (for example). Scared

Incidentally, in Italy the date in numbers is also written "day-month-year". I suspect it is so all over Europe.

(I suspect we are going a tad off topic, however... LOL )

-- Weather report: Today in Toronto is a wonderful sunny day, even if a bit cold: 2 degrees Celsius. ThumpUp
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 22 November 2015 17:20:35(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Incidentally, in Italy the date in numbers is also written "day-month-year". I suspect it is so all over Europe.


I believe South Africa use year/month/day which is a nice way to have it as it makes computer sorting by date easy ... BigGrin

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Offline Angus  
#16 Posted : 23 November 2015 10:44:30(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Incidentally, in Italy the date in numbers is also written "day-month-year". I suspect it is so all over Europe.


I believe South Africa use year/month/day which is a nice way to have it as it makes computer sorting by date easy ... BigGrin



In SA it all depends on the origin of the software being used or whether the person could be bothered to write the date correctly but the norm is also supposed to be Day/Month/Year.

Maybe we should get back to the original topic.

I have a R2 (C-track) curve with a 24094 in the middle of the curve and the few long passenger coaches like it. The second hand Liiliput ones I do have (sorry don't know there Model numbers), don't like it. Old metal 'short' Marklin passenger coaches (4051?) seem to be fine with it.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#17 Posted : 23 November 2015 11:13:19(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Whoa! Please dont mix sharp curves and short straights in order to make a bigger curve. That is exactly the WRONG thing to do (IMHO, of course ;-) )
Especially close-coupled long waggons will look terrible running through that kind of trackwork.

You could even do more! If you can fit in a "pure" R3 curve, it might be preferrable to do R4+R2+R4 for a 90º curve instead of R3+R3+R3. Well, it is just an example. Everything depends on the actual situation and space available. (R9+R2+R2+R9 is another example)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline PJMärklin  
#18 Posted : 23 November 2015 11:55:02(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
America and Britain are two nations, divided by a common language.
"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language." (Oscar Wilde)



Hello folks,

Yes, and also Winston Churchill spoke of the "English-Speaking peoples of the world"
Little did he know that in due course China {multiply by a small percentage of English-speaking people [when we were last there a progressive Chinese girl would not go out with (American : read as "date") a boy who did not speak English] by population of 20 billion (can you get your mind around that number) } would become the biggest "English-speaking nation" in the World !!!

Regards,

PJ

P.S. Another Oscar Wilde notable comment " my education was interrupted by a period at school !!!


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Offline PeFu  
#19 Posted : 23 November 2015 12:39:55(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Incidentally, in Italy the date in numbers is also written "day-month-year". I suspect it is so all over Europe.


I believe South Africa use year/month/day which is a nice way to have it as it makes computer sorting by date easy ... BigGrin



In Sweden, it's also year/month/day... Laugh
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 23 November 2015 13:13:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
1. Day-Month-Year,

2. Gibraltarian English

3. Use the largest curve radius possible and avoid sudden changes in radius, including straight tracks in between curves.

BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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