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Offline PeFu  
#1 Posted : 06 November 2015 10:19:20(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,209
As I'm going for C tracks and CS2 for my carpet layout, now I need to be updated on how to solve (S88?) feedback to the CS2 and also computer software. On the old M track layout (with Märklin 6051 Computer Interface) more than 8 years ago, I really liked the LDT RM-GB-8-N feedback module:

The RM-GB-8-N was very reliable providing integrated track occupancy detection via the pickup-shoe and the power supply to the isolated center conductor. Using the Märklin S88 modules, "kidnapping" one of the two outer rails, was then less reliable and also deteriorated power back from the engines. Seems like the RM-GB-8-N is still around! (according to the enclosed image from LDT)

Confused But what other competing feedback modules are there out there, for the C track and CS2 combo?

My intention also is to use the Railroad & Co TrainController PC softeware, if that would help...

BigGrin Peter

LDT RM-GB-8-N for S88 feedback and Marklin CS2 60215.jpg
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 07 November 2015 04:37:27(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Peter,

For feedback I use mainly contact tracks (detection on one of the outer rails) connected up to S88 detection modules from Viessmann.

I also use the Traincontroller software, but for feedback coms with PC I use LDT-HSI 88. Beware that some users have faced issues if you using the CS2 for feedback with Traincontroller and at some stage it was only supported partly by Railroad & Co. See more on website:

https://secure.freiwald....Marklin+feedback#p152483

I never had any problems with my setup or disruption in performance due to using one rail for feedback detection.

Another advantage with occupancy detection is that the block will show occupied as long as there is rolling stock within. With centre rail or momentarily detections you will not have this added advantages.

And C track is dead easy to make the contact tracks yourself in any length you would like.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline PeFu  
#3 Posted : 07 November 2015 10:35:13(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,209
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

For feedback I use mainly contact tracks (detection on one of the outer rails) connected up to S88 detection modules from Viessmann.

I also use the Traincontroller software, but for feedback coms with PC I use LDT-HSI 88. Beware that some users have faced issues if you using the CS2 for feedback with Traincontroller and at some stage it was only supported partly by Railroad & Co. See more on website:

https://secure.freiwald....Marklin+feedback#p152483

I never had any problems with my setup or disruption in performance due to using one rail for feedback detection.

Another advantage with occupancy detection is that the block will show occupied as long as there is rolling stock within. With centre rail or momentarily detections you will not have this added advantages.

And C track is dead easy to make the contact tracks yourself in any length you would like.

Brgds Lasse


Thanks Lasse!

I'm also interested in the LDT HSI-88. Was it because of the CS2 problems you decided for the HSI-88?

About making your own C track contact tracks: How are they made?

BigGrin Peter
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline Hackcell  
#4 Posted : 07 November 2015 15:55:02(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Viessmann 5233 track occupancy modules are quite reliable.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline fhp2  
#5 Posted : 07 November 2015 20:43:25(UTC)
fhp2

France   
Joined: 11/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 84
Location: paris
Hello,
I am using the LDT HSI88-USB directly linked to my PC. The track occupancy system i use is by the outer rail (not by current consumption) using LDT RM-88-N-O.
It works fine.
Is there other users using on C-tracks the current consumption detection (LDT RM-GB-8-N for example)? Is it better than with the outer rail ?
Francois.
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Offline Danlake  
#6 Posted : 08 November 2015 03:34:45(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Peter,

Yes, a few years ago the CS2 was not working well with feedback (if you upgraded to CS2 to higher than 2.7). There was also issues with delays in how the CS2 was polling feedback.

For this reason I decided to skip it. The LDT methods is probably one of the fastest solution you would get.

However with recent Marklin updates I believe some of the feedback polling issues have been resolved, but issue remains that Marklin is not very open about their software, for this reason Railrod and Co cannot guarantee all functionalities (still some small bugs when Traincontroller has to read the locomotive database from CS2).

In one of the latest digital newsletter from the marklin digital club there is a good explanation with photos on how to make contact tracks. I'm presently travelling do don't have access to my train files, but maybe some other member can sent the PDFs file to you.

But if you look carefully underneath a C track you will notice you need to make to small cuts on the steel wire tape (one in each end). Then you need to also isolate the rail end with marklin isolator 74030. See link:

http://www.andresaris-hobby.nl/electronics.html#!prettyPhoto/-1/

So you can take any C track (from the smallest 64 mm straight to 24530 curve tracks and make into a contact track).

Note that if you have a long block (e.g. 2 meter) you do not need to isolate the whole section physically. Normally you would have 3 seperate contact tracks (one for entry, one in the middle and one for exit). In Traincontroller you can then setup up e.g. Shifted braking and stopping markers. Also a good idea to have a time delay on each contact sensors (to avoid the sensor flickering due to dirty wheels).

As said before with current consumption detectors you would ideally then need a pickup shoe on the last wagon in your consist to physically detect when the block is actually clear.

If you are planning on using c track and PC software - contact track is a no-brainer IMHO!

On these pages I have uploaded my track plans including schematic from Traincontroller, so you can see how I have divided my layout in blocks:

https://www.marklin-user...ted-July-2015#post493787

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline PeFu  
#7 Posted : 08 November 2015 09:52:43(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,209
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

Yes, a few years ago the CS2 was not working well with feedback (if you upgraded to CS2 to higher than 2.7). There was also issues with delays in how the CS2 was polling feedback.

For this reason I decided to skip it. The LDT methods is probably one of the fastest solution you would get.

However with recent Marklin updates I believe some of the feedback polling issues have been resolved, but issue remains that Marklin is not very open about their software, for this reason Railrod and Co cannot guarantee all functionalities (still some small bugs when Traincontroller has to read the locomotive database from CS2).

...

Brgds Lasse


Thanks a lot for your input everybody, it's appreciated!

After your first post, Lasse, I googled around for issues on "CS2" and "TrainController", and there seems to be a lot. Hm, my decision to go for the CS2 as a Rolls Royce actually brings me s fake Volkswagen diesel...

Confused Is there anyone in the community with of CS2 and TrainController, who can confirm that the combo is working smooth now, with direct connection between CS2 and S88 modules? (i.e. without the LDT HSI-88). I cannot really find this confirmation in the forums (for TrainController). I would really like to spend approx. 130 EUR on something else than a HSI-88...

About power consumption detection via RM-GB-8-N type of modules: As I will start with a carpet layout, I like the RM-GB-8-N as no modification on the tracks are required. Going for a permanent layout will be a different thing - The cost for each outer rail contact will also be much lower.

About the need of having a loco pickup shoe at the end of the train: I remember I solved this in TrainController with a rule like "don't release the block until the end of next block is reached", or something. This option was selected at a check box I think....

BigGrin Peter
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline blid  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2015 10:21:55(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I have a transfer table and around it are M-tracks. That is where I use the LDT RM-GB-8-N. They will only be occupied by engines anyway, no cars. The rest of the layout has C-track and some K-track with feedback thru s88 and LDT HSI-88 to TC – not the CS2. All tracks have separated rails except the turnouts. I have set the delay in TC to 1 sec on ON.

Pefu: I sent you a PM (in Swedish) yesterday in case you haven’t noticed.

Blid
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 08 November 2015 12:07:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,103
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post

After your first post, Lasse, I googled around for issues on "CS2" and "TrainController", and there seems to be a lot. Hm, my decision to go for the CS2 as a Rolls Royce actually brings me s fake Volkswagen diesel...


I am not sure that the cs2 can be equated to a VW diesel ... yet ...

My understanding of the situation is that a major part of the problem is RR&Co Train Controller which needs to run as multithreaded software to provide real time updates when feedback events occur, but the software is written as single threaded, and the owner sees no reason to update it.

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