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Märklin digital and DCC together - 2 standards together
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Offline oranda  
#1 Posted : 09 October 2015 22:38:31(UTC)
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oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: ENGLAND
Hi


Apologies if this is a stupid question, but can I operate a mixed population of Märklin mfx and DCC equipment together on one layout?


I'm thinking of mainly DCC signals with mfx locomotives together.
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#2 Posted : 09 October 2015 22:46:09(UTC)
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sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but can I operate a mixed population of Märklin mfx and DCC equipment together on one layout?

There are no stupid questions. :-)

Yes, you can run mfx and DCC together using the CS2.

Please be aware that you cannot run MM, mfx and DCC together - at least not with the CS2. Other control systems might give you other options.

With the CS2, your options are:
- mfx + DCC
- MM2 + DCC
- MM2 + mfx

If you do not have any MM2 locomotives, you are in good shape. Otherwise your MM2 locomotives will need a new decoder that supports either DCC or mfx, or both (Märklin, ESU M4).

Update: If you use Auto-mode instead of selecting any particular protocol, you can run MM2+DCC+mfx together on the CS2.

Edited by user 10 October 2015 08:03:33(UTC)  | Reason: Updated the answer with correct information. Striked out wrong part of the answer.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Hackcell  
#3 Posted : 09 October 2015 22:52:47(UTC)
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Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: oranda Go to Quoted Post
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but can I operate a mixed population of Märklin mfx and DCC equipment together on one layout?

There are no stupid questions. :-)

Yes, you can run mfx and DCC together using the CS2. Please be aware that you cannot run MM, mfx and DCC together - at least not with the CS2. Other control systems might give you other options.

With the CS2, your options are:
- mfx + DCC
- MM2 + DCC
- MM2 + mfx

If you do not have any MM2 locomotives, you are in good shape. Otherwise your MM2 locomotives will need a new decoder that supports either DCC or mfx, or both (Märklin, ESU M4).


Hi,

Are you sure? If I'm not mistaken if you leave the CS2 protocol in auto, it will recognize the 3 protocols.

I'll test later today.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline 3rail4life  
#4 Posted : 10 October 2015 01:10:44(UTC)
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3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Yes, with all three protocols enabled this can be done with the MS2, CS2 and ECoS.ThumpUp

Cheers,
Gordon
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 10 October 2015 02:23:10(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
If I'm not mistaken if you leave the CS2 protocol in auto, it will recognize the 3 protocols.


That's my understanding.

The caveat to this is if a loco supports both mFX and DCC, the CS2 will always use mFX when the CS2 protocol setting is set to 'auto'. The same with mFX / MM.
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#6 Posted : 10 October 2015 07:50:05(UTC)
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sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Are you sure? If I'm not mistaken if you leave the CS2 protocol in auto, it will recognize the 3 protocols.

You're right. I completely forgot about the "auto" mode. In auto mode, the CS2 will of course recognize all 3 protocols. I was focused on an option called "mm2+dcc+mfx" so I completely overlooked the auto-option.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline baggio  
#7 Posted : 10 October 2015 08:03:11(UTC)
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baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
And if you use a Roco Multimaus, can you run any Trix locos or American manufacturer's locos? I think I can. Am I right?

What about Marklin, verboten?

Thanks.

Toronto Model Trains Fun Club
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#8 Posted : 10 October 2015 08:10:34(UTC)
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sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
And if you use a Roco Multimaus, can you run any Trix locos or American manufacturer's locos? I think I can. Am I right?

According to the manual, the Roco MultiMAUS supports DCC only. So you can run any DCC compatible locomotive, which includes those from Trix and presumeably every digitally fitted American locomotive. The MultiMAUS is NMRA compatible.

Almost all Märklin locomotives are MM or mfx. This will not work with the MultiMAUS. Only a few of the newer Märklin locomotives supports DCC; but I am still not sure whether or not this is a new trend or just a coincidence.

You can check the manual here: http://www.roco.cc/uploa...S/10810_multimaus_en.pdf
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 10 October 2015 09:47:36(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Only a few of the newer Märklin locomotives supports DCC
That statement is correct for H0 Märklin, but there are many I gauge Märklin locos with DCC.

DCC was invented for Märklin because MM protocol initially could not be used with I gauge.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 10 October 2015 10:04:26(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
The Intellibox II can now (or at least in 2016 when the module is released) support mfx as well as DCC and MM - there will be a new module that you need to purchase, but with it the IBII can support mfx - see

https://www.marklin-user...goes-mfx--new-mfu-module

You would then be able to use any combination of protocol that you may require with the IBII.
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Offline TouchCab  
#11 Posted : 10 October 2015 10:55:30(UTC)
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TouchCab

Denmark   
Joined: 04/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 149
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
DCC was invented for Märklin because MM protocol initially could not be used with I gauge.


Not entirely correct.
DCC was developed by the NMRA based on a system that was developed by Lenz for Märklin.
http://www.dccwiki.com/DCC_History

Many gauge 1 locos use the MM protocol. Are you referring to something earlier than that? What was the restriction for gauge 1?
Best regards,
Jens
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 10 October 2015 11:19:00(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TouchCab Go to Quoted Post
Many gauge 1 locos use the MM protocol. Are you referring to something earlier than that? What was the restriction for gauge 1?
Old MM decoders don't work if red and brown are swapped. Gauge I without centre rail: turn the loco around and it won't work.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline oranda  
#13 Posted : 10 October 2015 14:12:20(UTC)
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oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: ENGLAND
Many thanks to everyone who responded to my request for information.

It certainly has given me an even greater reason to get a CS2 and run it in AUTO mode, and more reason to investigate the other protocols available and how to apply them.
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Offline witzlerh  
#14 Posted : 10 October 2015 15:21:30(UTC)
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witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
I use my CS2 for MM, mfx, mfx+, and DCC. There are no problems with running them.

One word of awareness ( caution if you get easily frustrated and throw things...Flapper )
When programming a new multi-protocol decoder, do set the CS2 to the protocol you want to program in and then the 2nd thing you should program, (after programming the decoder address ) is to limit the protocols the decoder will speak or recognize.

I once spent hours trying to program a multi protocol as MM and it would only respond to DCC.
If I am correct, when a command is sent from the "auto" CS2, it sends out DCC first, MM next and then MFX.

Now I temporarily set my CS2 to MM ( or the protocol I want my decoder to be), I would then have no problems programming the decoder. Once done programming, I would then set my CS2 back to "auto".

Voila!
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 10 October 2015 15:43:24(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: witzlerh Go to Quoted Post
If I am correct, when a command is sent from the "auto" CS2, it sends out DCC first, MM next and then MFX.
Maybe I didn't get your point, but when a command is sent to a DCC loco it will be a DCC command - same for mfx and MM.
With protocol set to DCC only, no commands will be sent to MM or mfx locos. But MM commands will still be sent to MM turnouts.

Märklin decoders default to ignore their MM address when they detect DCC or mfx on the track and they ignore their DCC address when mfx is present on the track, unless those protocol with higher priority have been disabled in the decoder.
ESU decoders treat MM, DCC, and SX alike, but ignore all three when mfx is present on the track and not disabled in the decoder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 10 October 2015 16:26:29(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
This is what you use with Märklin digital system:
CS2 and MS2 trains:MM,mfx,mfx+ and DCC
CS2 and MS2 turnout/signal:MM or DCC
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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