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jonas_sthlm		#51 Posted : 11 September 2015 09:24:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC) Posts: 890 Location: Stockholm, Södermalm		Yes, it looks like the new development v2.0.4 is done from the older version of application. Should be compatible with older decoder equipment
		Collecting Swedish items since the 80s / CS3+ / MSW / 60175 Booster / 60881 S88 AC / TC10 Gold / K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class Ra / modelltag.se - Forum modelltag.se - Facebook modelltag.se - YouTube
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NZMarklinist		#52 Posted : 13 September 2015 17:52:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist ESU totally ripped off Marklin who paid them to develop the CS1, and Marklin systems, including MFX, whilst ESU also developed the Ecos alongside and the old boffins at Marklin made the agreement so loose, that huge omissions in that agreement allowed ESU to "do there own thing" in parallel IE; the Ecos and after much angst and a new agreement, M4 (mfx) [thank goodness for that ] We don't know whether there was a ripp-off and, if yes, on which side. We do know that adults signed the contracts. The old CEO, at the time, 10 years ago, Paul Adams, was beside himself with "dislike" for ESU apparently, because ultimately he was responsible for the situation and therefore, that the CS1 was a poor cousin compared to the first Ecos which he'd allowed by oversight, to be developed using M's money. Us CS1 owners, then had to pay extra money to have the functionallity of the Ecos. So I believe M and us (CS1 buyers) IMHO, were really ripped off by ESU, not withstanding the fact that I happily forked out for the "CS1 Reloaded"
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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H0		#53 Posted : 13 September 2015 19:02:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Paul Adams was CEO from 2003 till 2006 - he had to go when Kingsbridge came. In January 2008 Märklin published software 2.0.4 for the CS1. At that time Märklin sold many starter sets with the 60212. Later in 2008, the 60213 was announced.I suspect at that time they had been working on it for two years or so. Did ESU let Märklin down? Or did Märklin let ESU down? I don't know. Märklin let the customers down by hailing the 60212 at a time when they silently developed the 60213. History repeating: they announced the new decoders when the old decoders were sold out.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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NZMarklinist		#54 Posted : 14 September 2015 09:37:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: H0 Paul Adams was CEO from 2003 till 2006 - he had to go when Kingsbridge came. In January 2008 Märklin published software 2.0.4 for the CS1. At that time Märklin sold many starter sets with the 60212. Later in 2008, the 60213 was announced.I suspect at that time they had been working on it for two years or so. Did ESU let Märklin down? Or did Märklin let ESU down? I don't know. Märklin let the customers down by hailing the 60212 at a time when they silently developed the 60213. History repeating: they announced the new decoders when the old decoders were sold out. But to get the v2.0.4 software and the S88 and booster connecter that the 60212 came without, you had to send the CS1 back to Marklin ! Much later USA Marklineers could send their CS1's to Marklin Inc for V2 and connections to be added The Ecos was launched earlier with these things already installed I happen to know about Paul Adams from a very well connected member of this forum who told me of his "dislike" for ESU, whilst in Goppingen at Treff 2005 And seeing ESU presented the CS1 in a handicapped state, no wonder M /Adams whoever, decided to do their own thing and create the 60213 CS2 It also took ESU ages to develop a booster, and even longer to make that booster handle Railcom traffic jst btw. It seemed to me Kingsbridge instigated the 60213, but I could be wrong, maybe it was Adams, if he was around any longer I'm sure he would have but it makes sense that it was him ! If you've ever seen inside a CS1 and an Ecos you will know what I mean ! every thing apart from the speed control knobs is identical and mostly, physically interchangeable ! I'm sure M never envisaged ESU would do this, and effectively gazump them when they gave the contract to develop Marklin Systems to ESU As for the decoders, what did ESU do between V3 & V4 ???
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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H0		#55 Posted : 14 September 2015 12:06:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist If you've ever seen inside a CS1 and an Ecos you will know what I mean ! every thing apart from the speed control knobs is identical and mostly, physically interchangeable! We don't know whether Märklin knew that right from the start or whether they expected exclusivity for their 60212. It was a contract worth millions of Euros and both sides could afford lawyers that check the contract for unwanted loopholes. You can get the Märklin 36 VA power supply also with a Roco logo. You can get the Märklin soldering station also with a Voltcraft logo. Not everything that comes in a Märklin box comes exclusively from Märklin. Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist I'm sure M never envisaged ESU would do this, and effectively gazump them when they gave the contract to develop Marklin Systems to ESU I am not sure. This would mean there was a gross negligence on Märklin's side. When you hire a subcontractor you have to make sure that you obtain all rights in the works the subcontractor develops on your behalf. Maybe this was meant to be a co-operation right from the start, allowing ESU to sell the controller under the name ECoS and Märklin to sell it under the name Central Station. And then something led to the development of the CS2 - new CEO, new company owner, technical problems, unexpected delays, whatever. Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist As for the decoders, what did ESU do between V3 & V4??? There was a while when you could buy both types - there wasn't even a discount on the V3 decoders. Some folks preferred the V3 decoders to avoid the V4 teething problems. Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist But to get the v2.0.4 software and the S88 and booster connecter that the 60212 came without, you had to send the CS1 back to Marklin! Nope. My 60212 came with version 2.0.3 installed and I installed 2.0.4 myself. I didn't have to send it back to Märklin, it came with all connectors.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kimballthurlow		#56 Posted : 14 September 2015 13:09:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,669 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Originally Posted by: H0 ........ When you hire a subcontractor you have to make sure that you obtain all rights in the works the subcontractor develops on your behalf. ...... Sorry OT. Not even IBM did that with Bill Gates (aka Microsoft). So it does happen, to the BIGGEST companies. regards kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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mbarreto		#57 Posted : 14 September 2015 14:45:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		If the new sound decoder fits inside a Märklin BR18.4 I will buy one for testing. They say the dimensions are the same of the previous decoders, but I don't know if the previous fits inside that loco. Relative to the announcement of the new decoders after the old ones are sold out, I understand it well. I think anyone that buys technology knows that sooner or later (and the later is usually not far in time) it will be replaced with new, probably cheaper and better technology. Indeed we can look at it as a kind of green initiative: instead of have decoders not being used, basically being waste, this way they (the current, now old decoders) are doing something :)
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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river6109		#58 Posted : 14 September 2015 15:17:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,726 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Have I missed something ? is there any specification about the decoders Aux functions ? John
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jeehring		#59 Posted : 14 September 2015 15:37:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Please remember one thing : there had to be two CS1: CS1 Marklin + CS1 Trix DCC. All leaflets & documentation were printed, the Trix CS1 should have been available a few months later ..... Then the CS1 Trix became an....Ecos ! Edited by user 14 September 2015 19:00:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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H0		#60 Posted : 14 September 2015 21:53:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Originally Posted by: H0 ........ When you hire a subcontractor you have to make sure that you obtain all rights in the works the subcontractor develops on your behalf. ...... Sorry OT. Not even IBM did that with Bill Gates (aka Microsoft). So it does happen, to the BIGGEST companies. Microsoft did not develop MS DOS on behalf of IBM, they bought it cheap from another company and improved it. IBM did not insist on an exclusive license. In the beginning IBM offered three operating systems for the IBM PC. And PC DOS was by far the cheapest, so they got a better deal from Microsoft than from the other two. Co-operation lasted longer than 10 years. Not really a rip off (only Seattle Computer Products may have been ripped off). Back to Märklin digital: the Arnold 86035 looks a lot like Märklin 6035 and it is fully compatible. Same for many other components from the old Märklin digital era. No exclusivity back then. Did they really expect exclusivity with the CS 60212?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#61 Posted : 14 September 2015 23:08:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: river6109 ..... is there any specification about the decoders Aux functions ? John Nothing like a fit of insane laughter to start the week. However with the (21 pin) decoders now shipping and IMA/MarklinDays this weekend , I do hope that those attending will report more of the substance and specifications than just the eye-candy. Hopefully Marklin technical (not marketing) people will be in attendance to provide this type of information. Specifically, I would like to know when/if the CS2 will be updated with the ability to configure locos by itself , rather than just as a conduit for loading a mDT Project created on a PC. p.s. I do not, in the least, mean that I think there should be less eye-candy - just more supporting information to flesh it out and add contextual meaning. Edited by user 15 September 2015 09:20:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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H0		#62 Posted : 15 September 2015 07:47:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: river6109 ..... is there any specification about the decoders Aux functions? There is no successor for the 60940 "Spezial" decoder. This implies that you cannot install the mSD/3 into locos that require the 60940 decoder - at least not without modification.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Hackcell		#63 Posted : 15 September 2015 15:33:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC) Posts: 521		What I would really love to see are aftermarket decoders capable to support 2 motors, like the ones installed on the UP F7 (37629) and the ALCO PA1 (37610).
		Danilo Jiménez Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models. Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!) Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses. Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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clapcott		#64 Posted : 16 September 2015 00:05:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: river6109 .. is there any specification about the decoders Aux functions ? John From the Aug2015 manual : 260057/0815/Ha1Ef - 60975 Conversion Decoder Set for a Steam Locomotive - 60976 Conversion Decoder Set for a Diesel Locomotive - 60977 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive Technical Information • Continuous current load at the motor output ≤ 1.1 amps • Current load at the light outputs ≤ 250 milliamps • Current load at AUX 1 - AUX 4 each ≤ 250 milliamps • Current load at AUX 3 - AUX4 (logical output) — • Current load AUX + light ≤ 300 milliamps • Current load for motor and AUX 5/6 ≤ 1.1 amps • Maximum total load ≤ 1.6 amps • Maximum voltage ≤ 40 volts • Sound performance (at 4 Ω /8 Ω) 2.75 watts / 1.6 watts • Short circuit and overload protection at the outputs lights front (LV), lights rear (LH), AUX 1 – AUX 4 and at the motor outputs.
		Peter
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river6109		#65 Posted : 16 September 2015 03:59:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,726 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: river6109 .. is there any specification about the decoders Aux functions ? John From the Aug2015 manual : 260057/0815/Ha1Ef - 60975 Conversion Decoder Set for a Steam Locomotive - 60976 Conversion Decoder Set for a Diesel Locomotive - 60977 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive Technical Information • Continuous current load at the motor output ≤ 1.1 amps • Current load at the light outputs ≤ 250 milliamps • Current load at AUX 1 - AUX 4 each ≤ 250 milliamps • Current load at AUX 3 - AUX4 (logical output) — • Current load AUX + light ≤ 300 milliamps • Current load for motor and AUX 5/6 ≤ 1.1 amps • Maximum total load ≤ 1.6 amps • Maximum voltage ≤ 40 volts • Sound performance (at 4 Ω /8 Ω) 2.75 watts / 1.6 watts • Short circuit and overload protection at the outputs lights front (LV), lights rear (LH), AUX 1 – AUX 4 and at the motor outputs. thanks Peter, this is quite impressive, total load capacity 1.6 amp, you've mentioned Aux 3 + Aux 4 logical output and there are Aux 5 + 6, what are they for ? another thing I've noticed 64Mbit for the sound and 31 Sound slot functions I assume. I think this is getting now to the ridiculous stage, having 31 sound slot functions, how could you remember them when you have several locos with sound decoders. What I would like to see, the sound functions to be able to activate them external. I also like the new lokprogrammer, much cheaper than the ESU Lokprogrammer and a handy tool to have, this will be on my list when I get some feedback from the new decoders sound capability. Wouldn't mind Zimo producing a lokprogrammer John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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NZMarklinist		#66 Posted : 16 September 2015 05:22:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist If you've ever seen inside a CS1 and an Ecos you will know what I mean ! every thing apart from the speed control knobs is identical and mostly, physically interchangeable! We don't know whether Märklin knew that right from the start or whether they expected exclusivity for their 60212. They would be foolish not to surely It was a contract worth millions of Euros and both sides could afford lawyers that check the contract for unwanted loopholes. I suspect M & Paul Adams took a lot of things for granted You can get the Märklin 36 VA power supply also with a Roco logo. Lucky them You can get the Märklin soldering station also with a Voltcraft logo. I believed it was made by Viessmann, but it could be Voltcraft ? Not everything that comes in a Märklin box comes exclusively from Märklin. I think, most of us understand that Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist I'm sure M never envisaged ESU would do this, and effectively gazump them when they gave the contract to develop Marklin Systems to ESU I am not sure. This would mean there was a gross negligence on Märklin's side. I personally think there was When you hire a subcontractor you have to make sure that you obtain all rights in the works the subcontractor develops on your behalf. Maybe this was meant to be a co-operation right from the start, allowing ESU to sell the controller under the name ECoS and Märklin to sell it under the name Central Station. If that was the case how come the 60212 was first released without the Booster & S88 connections ie an inferior item compared to the Ecos ? (again M or Paul Adams took a lot of things for granted IMHO And then something led to the development of the CS2 - new CEO, new company owner, technical problems, unexpected delays, whatever. Probably all of those things, maybe more Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist As for the decoders, what did ESU do between V3 & V4??? There was a while when you could buy both types - there wasn't even a discount on the V3 decoders. Some dealers did discount them, and yes this was not the first occasion, users were wary of a new ESU product Some folks preferred the V3 decoders to avoid the V4 teething problems. Indeed, the new V4 decoder programming software, apparently seemed to "conflict" with the V3 software on some technicalities (according to "The Train Dr) Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist But to get the v2.0.4 software and the S88 and booster connecter that the 60212 came without, you had to send the CS1 back to Marklin! Nope. My 60212 came with version 2.0.3 installed and I installed 2.0.4 myself. I didn't have to send it back to Märklin, it came with all connectors My first 60212 CS1 in its own box, purchased in 2006, didn't have them so I sold it in 2007 when I got another one in a starter set, but IIRC that did not have them either so I sold that too ! Just FYI my "present" CS1 I bought rather "cheaply" second hand on our TradeMe, but when I installed the ESU Reload, it introduced new icons down the left hand side of the programming screen that I could not access, due to a "dead patch" in the LH bottom corner of the screen so our local ESU Dealer, Toottoot, who luckily I'd purchased the reload from, sent my old second hand CS1-R back to ESU and a completely different (new ) unit was returned with a new reload disc which to this day continues to operate without fault @ V3.3.3 .
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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NZMarklinist		#67 Posted : 16 September 2015 05:30:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: river6109 Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: river6109 .. is there any specification about the decoders Aux functions ? John From the Aug2015 manual : 260057/0815/Ha1Ef - 60975 Conversion Decoder Set for a Steam Locomotive - 60976 Conversion Decoder Set for a Diesel Locomotive - 60977 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive Technical Information • Continuous current load at the motor output ≤ 1.1 amps • Current load at the light outputs ≤ 250 milliamps • Current load at AUX 1 - AUX 4 each ≤ 250 milliamps • Current load at AUX 3 - AUX4 (logical output) — • Current load AUX + light ≤ 300 milliamps • Current load for motor and AUX 5/6 ≤ 1.1 amps • Maximum total load ≤ 1.6 amps • Maximum voltage ≤ 40 volts • Sound performance (at 4 Ω /8 Ω) 2.75 watts / 1.6 watts • Short circuit and overload protection at the outputs lights front (LV), lights rear (LH), AUX 1 – AUX 4 and at the motor outputs. thanks Peter, this is quite impressive, total load capacity 1.6 amp, you've mentioned Aux 3 + Aux 4 logical output and there are Aux 5 + 6, what are they for ? another thing I've noticed 64Mbit for the sound and 31 Sound slot functions I assume. I think this is getting now to the ridiculous stage, having 31 sound slot functions, how could you remember them when you have several locos with sound decoders. What I would like to see, the sound functions to be able to activate them external. I also like the new lokprogrammer, much cheaper than the ESU Lokprogrammer and a handy tool to have, this will be on my list when I get some feedback from the new decoders sound capability. Wouldn't mind Zimo producing a lokprogrammer John what are they for ? Hi John, How about Telex couplers individually switched, the function for older CSine drive, Coach lighting or Train tail lights and twin Smoke units in the Class 53's and Big Boys etc, etc You could also possibly even use them to replace blown decoders in the old "Dance car" for instance !!
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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H0		#68 Posted : 16 September 2015 07:55:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		I didn't find the manual. Where did you find it, Peter? Originally Posted by: river6109 thanks Peter, this is quite impressive, total load capacity 1.6 amp, you've mentioned Aux 3 + Aux 4 logical output and there are Aux 5 + 6, what are they for? AUX5/6 are the motor outputs, used as function outputs. You can configure the decoder as a function decoder and use AUX5/6 instead of the motor. At least it was like that with the older mLD generation. Logical level for AUX3/4 would imply that the decoders now comply with NEM660 (like the old mSD "Spezial") and that AUX3/4 need external amplification. But maybe it's just another "copy'n'paste" error in the manual.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#69 Posted : 16 September 2015 12:07:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		.. attached here temporarily until M update their publications page. The file was sourced from Marklin Service. Webmaster feel free to remove if you think this is an issue. Ref http://medienpdb.maerkli.../1/pdf/60975_betrieb.pdf Edited by user 26 September 2015 20:24:03(UTC)  | Reason: Formal publication on Marklins website
		Peter
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clapcott		#70 Posted : 16 September 2015 12:16:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: clapcott I am suspicious about the "automatically calibrate" feature. Nothing is 100% automatic. At the very best this might mean "when first installed after programming" , however there has to be other considerations e.g. perform on roller-desk and/or with no load (wagons) on a flat gradient. And there has to be something about ensuring the gears and transmission including side rods are free with no binds. .... My understanding is that the ESU automatic motor calibration feature works extremely well. All that is needed afterward is to set up the speed curves. From the manual Automatic Calibration for All Protocols • The type of motor must be selected (see CV 52) before calibration. • ... Go into the locomotive configuration on the Central Station-> CV-> Info for automatic calibration of the locomotive. --- [for mfx] In the field Firmware, overwrite the first digit with 77. --- In the protocols MM/DCC, enter CV 7 directly in the configuration mode. Overwrite the value 77 and store it in the locomotive. • Enter a speed with the speed control knob. Now the locomotive starts slowly, accelerates to the fastest speed, and then stops after a short while. After that, the locomotive tries several times to start up. If the locomotive finally remains at a standstill, the calibration process has ended. So it is not fully automatic - and the question is... How will people translate the motor they see in front of them into one of the options in th table for CV52?
		Peter
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H0		#71 Posted : 16 September 2015 13:02:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: H0 Logical level for AUX3/4 would imply that the decoders now comply with NEM660 (like the old mSD "Spezial") and that AUX3/4 need external amplification. There is a dash behind the logical output, so these decoders have AUX3 and AUX4 amplified with a maximum load of 250 mA. New feature: CV 51 can be used to configure AUX3 and/or AUX4 as logic level outputs. This makes the former mSD "Spezial" redundant.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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biedmatt		#72 Posted : 16 September 2015 13:41:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,343 Location: Southwest Ohio		Originally Posted by: clapcott How will people translate the motor they see in front of them into one of the options in th table for CV52? Will they now publish exactly what motor you get in that loko? Doubtful.
		Matt Era 3 DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control. With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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H0		#73 Posted : 16 September 2015 15:10:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: biedmatt Will they now publish exactly what motor you get in that loko? They saw no need for this with the previous decoders, why should they see the need now? I am sure the motor in the TRAXX hobby locos is not a c90 motor, but in my experience the mLD/mSD works best when set to "c90". With "DC soft" and "DC hard" results are worse. When I look at a motor, how do I know whether it is "soft" or "hard"?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#74 Posted : 18 September 2015 10:19:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Can some one please do a technical as well as English translation - i'm struggling with what google is giving me . I can interpret CVs34/35/36 and CVs33 and 37 appear to be reference pointers to places in the 80 row table of commands. But how is a write/update actually performed to set the data (and read it out)? Funktionsmapping Das Funktonsmapping ist sehr weitreichend und komplex. Jedes einzelne Mapping wird über drei Einstellungen vorgenommen. Dabei wird festgelegt: - Wie wird die Funktion ausgelöst - mögliche Bedingungen gelten für diese Funktion - Welche Funktion wird ausgelöst Diese Informationen werden, nachdem sie eingestellt wurden, gemeinsam in einer „Zeile“ gespeichert. Insgesammt können 80 Zeilen (0 – 79) gespeichert werden. Das Vorgehen 1. In CV 33 wird eingetragen, welche der 80 möglichen Zeilen eingelesen werden soll. Wird ein neues Mapping angelegt, kann diese CV leer bleiben. 2. In CV 34 wird der „Auslöser“ angegeben (siehe Tabelle „Auslöser & Ereignisse“). 3. In CV 35 können Bedingungen angegeben werden (siehe Tabelle „Bedingungen“). Diese CV kann auch leer bleiben. 4. In CV 36 wird angegeben, welche Funktion ausgelöst werden soll (siehe Tabelle „Auslöser & Ereignisse“). 5. In CV 37 wird angegeben, in welche Zeile das aktuell angelegte Mapping eingetragen werden soll. Wird hier eine schon belegte Zeile angegeben, so wird diese durch die neuen Einstellungen überschrieben. Ein neu angelegtes Mapping ist erst gültig, wenn es in eine Zeile geschrieben wurde.
		Peter
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kimballthurlow		#75 Posted : 18 September 2015 10:47:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,669 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Originally Posted by: H0 ... When I look at a motor, how do I know whether it is "soft" or "hard"? I used the current MSD decoders in my 1970s brass locos (these had early generation can motors) and I set the relevant CV to "hard". It seemed to work fine. Just a guess. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
		WWW
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mbarreto		#76 Posted : 18 September 2015 11:13:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		Originally Posted by: clapcott Can some one please do a technical as well as English translation - i'm struggling with what google is giving me . I can interpret CVs34/35/36 and CVs33 and 37 appear to be reference pointers to places in the 80 row table of commands. But how is a write/update actually performed to set the data (and read it out)? Funktionsmapping Das Funktonsmapping ist sehr weitreichend und komplex. Jedes einzelne Mapping wird über drei Einstellungen vorgenommen. Dabei wird festgelegt: - Wie wird die Funktion ausgelöst - mögliche Bedingungen gelten für diese Funktion - Welche Funktion wird ausgelöst Diese Informationen werden, nachdem sie eingestellt wurden, gemeinsam in einer „Zeile“ gespeichert. Insgesammt können 80 Zeilen (0 – 79) gespeichert werden. Das Vorgehen 1. In CV 33 wird eingetragen, welche der 80 möglichen Zeilen eingelesen werden soll. Wird ein neues Mapping angelegt, kann diese CV leer bleiben. 2. In CV 34 wird der „Auslöser“ angegeben (siehe Tabelle „Auslöser & Ereignisse“). 3. In CV 35 können Bedingungen angegeben werden (siehe Tabelle „Bedingungen“). Diese CV kann auch leer bleiben. 4. In CV 36 wird angegeben, welche Funktion ausgelöst werden soll (siehe Tabelle „Auslöser & Ereignisse“). 5. In CV 37 wird angegeben, in welche Zeile das aktuell angelegte Mapping eingetragen werden soll. Wird hier eine schon belegte Zeile angegeben, so wird diese durch die neuen Einstellungen überschrieben. Ein neu angelegtes Mapping ist erst gültig, wenn es in eine Zeile geschrieben wurde. This is just a guess as I don't know the process: Maybe after you write to cv33 the line you want to read, you read cv 34, 35 and 36 with the values that are there. just to know what is in that line. Then you change those 3 CVs to what you want. After that you specify the row in wich you want them written by wrtining CV 37. Then you write the CV 34, 35 and 36. You may try this and see if it works. You can also try write in reverse of what I said: First write CVs 34, 35 and 36 and after 37. Miguel
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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H0		#77 Posted : 18 September 2015 12:11:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: clapcott I can interpret CVs34/35/36 and CVs33 and 37 appear to be reference pointers to places in the 80 row table of commands. But how is a write/update actually performed to set the data (and read it out)? I assume that CVs 33 and 37 have magical side-effects: writing a valid row number into CV 33 will update CVs 34/5/6 with the values from that row. Writing to CV 37 will transfer CVs 34/5/6 to that row. With mfx you will probably see the table on the screen and won't have to mess with those CVs.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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mbarreto		#78 Posted : 18 September 2015 14:33:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		The new mDecoder tool is available for download: http://www.maerklin.de/d...pdates/decoder-tool.html Not in english yet...
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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clapcott		#79 Posted : 18 September 2015 23:27:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: mbarreto The new mDecoder tool is available for download: Functional, but in general a rather underwhelming UX, especially with relation to the chaining of actions. (Marklin please get rid of the fuzzy ICE - really unprofessional !) And, while I can see how to configure F16-F31, I am still at a loss as to how these might be called up on the CS2. Maybe, when the decoder is recognised by the CS2 it presents additional options
		Peter
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kiwiAlan		#80 Posted : 19 September 2015 22:16:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,109 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: mbarreto The new mDecoder tool is available for download: Functional, but in general a rather underwhelming UX, especially with relation to the chaining of actions. (Marklin please get rid of the fuzzy ICE - really unprofessional !) And, while I can see how to configure F16-F31, I am still at a loss as to how these might be called up on the CS2. Maybe, when the decoder is recognised by the CS2 it presents additional options When talking with Dieter Lorenz from Marklin, he said there will be an update to handle functions up to 31, but it won't be before December.
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Goofy		#81 Posted : 20 September 2015 09:40:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		An interesting note about CV50. Bit 0=analog AC But you cannot disabled this with the CU6021! Bit 4=mfx+ Only Märklin personal handle this program in the decoder and when you want to use simulate cabinet in the CS2,the program must been locked by of personal at Märklin company. I´m not sure if there will be simulate cabinet for the DCC protocol?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Purellum		#82 Posted : 20 September 2015 22:09:32(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Why would anybody buy Märklin's most advanced digital decoder, and then set it to analog ?? And are you sure you understand what is written in the notes ?? Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.
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H0		#83 Posted : 20 September 2015 22:35:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy Bit 0=analog AC But you cannot disabled this with the CU6021! Why not? I could. Maybe you can't.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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H0		#84 Posted : 20 September 2015 22:45:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Purellum Why would anybody buy Märklin's most advanced digital decoder, and then set it to analog? Analogue is enabled by default. And you can get sound with analogue operation, too - so why not? People who run their trains analogue only probably won't buy those decoders, but people who use analogue and digital might.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#85 Posted : 20 September 2015 23:04:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan When talking with Dieter Lorenz from Marklin, he said there will be an update to handle functions up to 31, but it won't be before December. Thanks Alan, Can you be a bit more specific about what update, or updates, refers to - Existing CS2 update ? (CS2 firmware) - Existing Decoder update ? (mLD/3 mSD/3 already shipping) - Existing mDT update ? - an updated CS ? (Hardware) - an updated MS ? (Hardware)
		Peter
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NZMarklinist		#86 Posted : 21 September 2015 08:00:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan When talking with Dieter Lorenz from Marklin, he said there will be an update to handle functions up to 31, but it won't be before December. Thanks Alan, Can you be a bit more specific about what update, or updates, refers to - Existing CS2 update ? (CS2 firmware) - Existing Decoder update ? (mLD/3 mSD/3 already shipping) - Existing mDT update ? - an updated CS ? (Hardware) - an updated MS ? (Hardware) Hello Peter, I think you will find it to be a CS2 firmware update, that like the Ecos 2, provides three extra rows for on Screen Function Icons next to the Function Buttons, ie; F0-7 on the hard buttons, then three more rows of 8 on screen = 31 It would be nice if these were assignable, like Decoder functions, so that your most used Functions could be easily got at by the "hard" buttons, particularly when in other screens
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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clapcott		#87 Posted : 21 September 2015 08:26:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Hi Glen, Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist I think you will find it to be a CS2 firmware update, that like the Ecos 2, provides three extra rows for on Screen Function Icons next to the Function Buttons, ie; F0-7 on the hard buttons, then three more rows of 8 on screen = 31 Did this information come from Marklin? Quote: ....It would be nice if these were assignable,.... What do you mean? Currently decoder functions are assignable to the existing 16 buttons of a CS/2!
		Peter
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kiwiAlan		#88 Posted : 21 September 2015 08:30:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,109 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan When talking with Dieter Lorenz from Marklin, he said there will be an update to handle functions up to 31, but it won't be before December. Thanks Alan, Can you be a bit more specific about what update, or updates, refers to - Existing CS2 update ? (CS2 firmware) - Existing Decoder update ? (mLD/3 mSD/3 already shipping) - Existing mDT update ? - an updated CS ? (Hardware) - an updated MS ? (Hardware) He was talking specifically of a cs2 update. I didn't ask about ms2 updates, but I suspect that may become a difference between the two controllers, rather like the ms1 could use only 8 functions. Now that the IMA is over they are going to go into documentation translate mode, so expect the manual and the PC program that drives the programmer to appear with multiple languages available in the near future. Also there is to be a decoder tester fitted with motor, speaker, etc to be produced in the near future. It will plug into the programmer in place of the PCB that the decoder plugs onto. There will also be adapter boards for large decoders as used in G1 & LGB, and also one for decoders fitted to the smaller items such as Minitrix. I would suggest that all these will get announced in the 2016 NI brochure. There will be no locos fitted with the new decoder until next year, so the Br01.5 will have the existing decoder. The Marklin staff seem to be pretty sure that the new decoder will match the Loksound/Lokpilot for many features. There may some small areas where it is better, and some where it doesn't quite match the ESU ones, but even when the staff members would go 'off piste' and express personal opinions they seem pretty upbeat about it.
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biedmatt		#89 Posted : 21 September 2015 19:35:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,343 Location: Southwest Ohio		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan The Marklin staff seem to be pretty sure that the new decoder will match the Loksound/Lokpilot for many features. There may some small areas where it is better, and some where it doesn't quite match the ESU ones, but even when the staff members would go 'off piste' and express personal opinions they seem pretty upbeat about it. Based on all the published specs, it looks like a matter of catching up with the Jones's. They have created a PC based programmer, but the decoder must be removed from the loko. Not convienent if you archive your decoders. Some CVs can only be set while you watch the loko run, ie: steam chuff synchronization and scale max speed. Now you need to remove the decoder to archive those CVs. Will they unlock the decoders supplied with the lokos, or is this programmer useless with those? They will offer a decoder tester, will it have the ability to connect to your controller as well as the PC based programmer? This can be a helpful maintenance tool before you put the decoder in the loko. They have added automatic motor tune, but you need a circle of track where the loko can run at full speed. Some M lokos can run at near warp speed, how big a circle will you need? They have not done anything with their ten year old automatic brake control. A third generation decoder with first generation ABC. I hope the sound is good, because the rest doesn't impress. https://www.marklin-user...h-LeoSoundLab#post492676 Edited by user 22 September 2015 13:59:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Matt Era 3 DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control. With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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mbarreto		#90 Posted : 21 September 2015 20:33:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		Matt, MFX with the new decoders have/will have 32 functions - that is an evolution. There is now MFX+ - that is an evolution. Maybe not the most wanted ones, but for sure there is evolution and it is good. Regarding the new decoder tool I would like to see what connector pins are being used. It was great if it was just the ones of the red and brown wires so we could use the tool connected to a "prog" track. Most probably they use more for have some more control, but I don't know...
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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biedmatt		#91 Posted : 21 September 2015 20:47:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,343 Location: Southwest Ohio		Hi Miguel, I agree M has made progress, but they are still no equal to ESU's now 3+ year old V4 decoders and all the support material ESU offers for their decoders. The only interesting item is the slider changeover board, item 60973. ESU's does not offer solder pads for the functions, you must solder to the solder pad the MTC21 pin connector is soldered.
		Matt Era 3 DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control. With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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mbarreto		#92 Posted : 21 September 2015 21:10:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		Hi Matt, ESU has the 51970 I/O extension board that takes a lot of volume but I think addresses your concerns relative to them. ESU is mainly (although trying to be much more than that and with success, I think) a decoder company, so it is natural that they are hard to beat. I think if one is a tech guy and focuses deep in the technical electronic/digital/electric and mechanic aspects of the hobby it is better to stick to ESU. They address that market better IMHO. Märklin tries to be more user friendly, still having high tech in their products, tries to make them long lasting, collectable, valuable and fun and enjoyable o play with. I have interesting expectations relative to the sound capabilities of the new M decoders. I don't know if the ESU decoders use the same number of bits/sample and if they have the same amount of memory. Off course great recordings and projects will account for the difference. One good thing is M decoders are cheaper. Let's see...
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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H0		#93 Posted : 21 September 2015 21:46:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: mbarreto There is now MFX+ Is there? I don't see that in the product database, I don't see that in the manual that leaked on this site. Not that I'd care for mfx+. One thing that annoys me about the mSD/mLD decoders: the time factor for CVs 3 and 4 depends on the protocol you are using. I want to have 20 and 15 seconds respectively with all protocols. Judging from the leaked manual, there was no progress here.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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mbarreto		#94 Posted : 21 September 2015 21:58:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: mbarreto There is now MFX+ Is there? I don't see that in the product database, I don't see that in the manual that leaked on this site. Not that I'd care for mfx+. One thing that annoys me about the mSD/mLD decoders: the time factor for CVs 3 and 4 depends on the protocol you are using. I want to have 20 and 15 seconds respectively with all protocols. Judging from the leaked manual, there was no progress here. When I talked about MFX+ I was not thinking in the new decoders, but in the protocol itself. MFX+ exists now and didn't exist when MFX came to life and during some years after it. Despite that, you can see the manual in the Märklin German site says that bit 4 for CV 50 refers to MFX+. Don't know anything else about how to use it with the new decoders. We don't need to use the leaked manual as it is out of date. Use the German official one instead: http://static.maerklin.d...mSD3_Zusatzanleitung.pdf About the CVs 3 and 4 I totally agree with you. Competition between ESU and Märklin is good for us
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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H0		#95 Posted : 21 September 2015 22:14:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: mbarreto We don't need to use the leaked manual as it is out of date. Use the German official one instead The "official one" is just the addendum with the information they forget in the printed manual. I assume the leaked version is the same as the printed version that comes with the decoders and it is not obsolete.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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mbarreto		#96 Posted : 21 September 2015 23:01:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,265		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: mbarreto We don't need to use the leaked manual as it is out of date. Use the German official one instead The "official one" is just the addendum with the information they forget in the printed manual. I assume the leaked version is the same as the printed version that comes with the decoders and it is not obsolete. :) Good to know because it seemed with very few information ( Anyway we can see there the mfx+ bit 4 of CV 50). Is there any leaked version of the full manual? I also hope the future translated versions are in a better English that the Märklin Magazine English. ESU also takes time to translate . At least when they announce their products, usually they announce in german first. Although it may seem the opposite, I also really like ESU products. Anyway Märklin is not only technical and it all counts.
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.
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NZMarklinist		#97 Posted : 22 September 2015 02:06:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: clapcott Hi Glen, Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist I think you will find it to be a CS2 firmware update, that like the Ecos 2, provides three extra rows for on Screen Function Icons next to the Function Buttons, ie; F0-7 on the hard buttons, then three more rows of 8 on screen = 31 Did this information come from Marklin? Quote: ....It would be nice if these were assignable,.... What do you mean? Currently decoder functions are assignable to the existing 16 buttons of a CS/2! Hi Peter, No I do not have any secret intelligence from Marklin It just seemed like common sensed to me, as I have experienced the three rows of function icons on an Ecos 2, they've had it for years ! and M will need it to take advantage of the extra new functions of the new decoders Wot I mean by assignable functions, is that you can, as you know, with Loksound, as well as MSD's, assign the functions of a decoder to any desired button, so by default yes you can therefore assign them to the 8 "hard buttons of a CS2, Ecos et al. However if you have a new future M Lok with a Marklin factory, always locked, decoder, I am not so sure you can alter it in the same way, even with the M programmer, so it would be convenient to bypass say braking noise cancellation, or some undesirable station announcement for instance, in the first 8 functions, to something desirable down the list. (I am thinking of future new Marklin Loks with their factory, decoders, having more than 8 functions.) hence my wishing out loud comment ! perhaps too wishful, and maybe confusing !
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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NZMarklinist		#98 Posted : 22 September 2015 02:35:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: mbarreto Hi Matt, ESU has the 51970 I/O extension board that takes a lot of volume but I think addresses your concerns relative to them. ESU is mainly (although trying to be much more than that and with success, I think) a decoder company, so it is natural that they are hard to beat. I think if one is a tech guy and focuses deep in the technical electronic/digital/electric and mechanic aspects of the hobby it is better to stick to ESU. They address that market better IMHO. Märklin tries to be more user friendly, still having high tech in their products, tries to make them long lasting, collectable, valuable and fun and enjoyable o play with. I have interesting expectations relative to the sound capabilities of the new M decoders. I don't know if the ESU decoders use the same number of bits/sample and if they have the same amount of memory. Off course great recordings and projects will account for the difference. One good thing is M decoders are cheaper. Let's see... See this, just FYI for all, my Friend Norm in Sydney did this Marklin Tristan conversion, three years ago with Loksound V4 micro decoder & Zimo sugar cube speaker The decoder is in DCC mode and railcom activated, It registered on his Ecos II in not much over a second It had more than 16 functions IIRC count them perhaps and just btw, coach lighting is LEDs ! see here for Tristan arriving at Hamburg Dammtor I had just asked Norm if he knew that with Loksound decoders, that the whistle defaults to the Joystick on the Ecos (if you haven't done a total remap that is) So he gave the thing a good try out See Norm's Ecos at the end ! LCD Screen is for cameras in Schattenbahnhioff ! Edit; I really hope the new Marklin decoders bring all this versatility to us
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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clapcott		#99 Posted : 22 September 2015 09:46:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: mbarreto There is now MFX+ Is there? I don't see that in the product database, I don't see that in the manual that leaked on this site. Not that I'd care for mfx+. The mFX+ sub-topic came up when someone queried whether there would be a different decoder for the mFX+ loco that Marklin will bring out in the future. The pointer to CV50.4 just indicated that the decoder architecture had this capability - that it was mFX+ ready. If Marklin have this bit locked from the factory , and not able to be set with the retrofit decoders, that does not mean that the same decoder (design) is not being used for both
		Peter
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H0		#100 Posted : 22 September 2015 10:07:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: clapcott If Marklin have this bit locked from the factory , and not able to be set with the retrofit decoders, that does not mean that the same decoder (design) is not being used for both mfx+ requires a firmware that supports it - and maybe it has some hardware requirements. The old decoders came in different configurations: mfx, MM, DCC when sold separately, mfx and DCC when sold in Trix locos, mfx and MM when sold in Märklin locos. But there ain't a bit in a Märklin loco that activates DCC (or de-activates mfx). The appearance of bit 4 in the addendum does not indicate that the decoders support mfx+ right from the start. Additionally it takes a few bytes of firmware code to actually activate mfx+.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
2 users liked this useful post by H0		NZMarklinist, mbarreto
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New Märklin decoders brand and programming (Digital) by mbarreto 21/02/2010 21:15:23(UTC)

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