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Offline Cargodog  
#1 Posted : 28 July 2015 08:45:35(UTC)
Cargodog

Denmark   
Joined: 29/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 132
Location: Middle east
Hey guys,

I've now connected all turnouts and servos to my ECoS II via switchpilots. All but my 3 way turnouts (5214) and the uncouplers (5112).

5214 has 1 yellow and 2 blue on one side, and 2 more blue wires on the other (total 1 yellow, 4 blue). Does anyone know how to connect these wires to the Switchpilot? As usual the ESU instructions are clear as mud. The only info I could find online was that I need to use 2 of the switchpilots 4 outputs for this kind of turnout. If anyone has done this, can you please explain how it's done?

5112 has 1 yellow and 1 blue wire. I tried connecting it to the Switchpilot, and got a response, but it just stays in the raised (uncouple) position. I got sidetracked, so it was left with the power on, and after a while, it got really, REALLY hot. Obviously not the way it's done. Should my Switchpilot be set to K84 to operate these units?

If anyone can point me in the correct direction, it'd be much appreciated.


Cheers, René...
If everything's under control, you're just not going fast enough.
There are two types of men. Those who want to build a big layout, and those who didn't get permission from the wife.
Offline biedmatt  
#2 Posted : 28 July 2015 12:16:57(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Perhaps the best way to visualize the 5214 three way switch is to think of it as two separate switches (left and right) placed one atop the other. The two blue wires on one side make that set of points to straight or turned and the same for the blue pair of wires on the other side. You will need two separate switchpilot outputs to operate it. But I would think you could configure the controller and switch pilot so pressing the "straight" icon on the ECoS will cause both separate points to transfer to the straight position or route, ie: one icon selection generates two switchpilot outputs. Or you could identify which blue wire from each side sets the points to straight and connect both blues to the same output of the switchpilot. Then when you select the straight route, both switches will transfer to straight.

On the 5112, it sounds like the switchpilot is configured for constant output, keeping the decoupler constantly energized. Configure that output to momentary so it will automatically deactivate when you release the button or icon on the ECoS.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline Cargodog  
#3 Posted : 29 July 2015 22:53:32(UTC)
Cargodog

Denmark   
Joined: 29/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 132
Location: Middle east
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps the best way to visualize the 5214 three way switch is to think of it as two separate switches (left and right) placed one atop the other. The two blue wires on one side make that set of points to straight or turned and the same for the blue pair of wires on the other side. You will need two separate switchpilot outputs to operate it. But I would think you could configure the controller and switch pilot so pressing the "straight" icon on the ECoS will cause both separate points to transfer to the straight position or route, ie: one icon selection generates two switchpilot outputs. Or you could identify which blue wire from each side sets the points to straight and connect both blues to the same output of the switchpilot. Then when you select the straight route, both switches will transfer to straight.

On the 5112, it sounds like the switchpilot is configured for constant output, keeping the decoupler constantly energized. Configure that output to momentary so it will automatically deactivate when you release the button or icon on the ECoS.


Thanks, Matt,


I'm not sure what I was thinking with those 5214's. After reading your reply, I gave it another go, and they're now working perfectly. Thanks...

Same thing goes for the 5112's. I've got it working now. It stays in the decouple position until I push the "button" again on the screen of the ECoS. That's the way they're supposed to work, right? I've never used one before. The only danger I see in this is that, of, after decoupling, you forget to release the coupler, it'll stay raised, and I'd potentially run into the same overheating problem?

Now that I (think I) got the 5112 working properly, I have another question about it. It states in the Switchpilot (SP) manual that it can handle four switches or up to 8 lights, decouplers, etc. That means that, if I want to connect 8 decouplers to 1 SP, obviously 2 decouplers need to be installed in every one of the 4 outputs on the SP. If i decide to connect two decouplers via port 1, how should i connect that? Should i connect the 2 Yellow wires in the same center port, and then connect to blues on other side? No matter how they're physically connect, it'd still be 2 SP's in one port. How can I tell my ECoS which one to operate?

Thanks, René...
If everything's under control, you're just not going fast enough.
There are two types of men. Those who want to build a big layout, and those who didn't get permission from the wife.
Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 30 July 2015 01:25:27(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,272
Location: Port Moody, BC
For the decouplers, that should be a momentary output to the solenoid so that it raises to the decouple position and then drops back down. If it stays in the raised position you could have 1 of 2 problems - the electrical contact stays closed keeping the solenoid energized (eventually will burn out) or you could have residual magnetism keeping the decoupler raised. If it is a residual magnetism case I have solved the problem by opening up the solenoid case and placing a small piece of tape on the actuator in order to create enough of a gap that the residual magnetism is not strong enough, and the bar drops down when the power to the solenoid is off.

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PMPeter
Offline biedmatt  
#5 Posted : 30 July 2015 04:33:24(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hi René,

Pairing an ECoS input to an SP output is not something I have done yet, but maybe an electrical explanation which I am familiar with, can help. The switches are double solenoid devices requiring one solenoid to power to make the points to a turn and a second solenoid to make the points to straight. Each solenoid is connected to a blue wire. Those blue wires are switched on and off with power so the solenoids will operate and move the points. The yellow wire is a common (shared) electrical return path for the voltage for both solenoids. The decoupler is a single solenoid device using power to raise the decoupler and gravity to cause it to fall back down. What is done for eight decouplers on a switch pilot is as you believe, plug two into a single switchpilot position. Plug one in where you would plug a switch's blue wire for straight and the blue wire on a second decoupler to where you would have plugged in that switch's blue wire for a turn.

Graphically showing the decoupler on the ECoS and pairing the outputs of a single position on the swithpilot to two different icons is where I am unable to help. My track is still analog for the switches. It is small enough that changing from analog to digital didn't make financial sense. I will most likely be asking you that question in a couple years when I finally get the kids out of school and get that raise I hear about.

One final note, the decouplers are meant to be used by pushing the freight or passenger car across the decoupler. Do not pull the car across the decoupler. The couplers have the pre-uncoupler devices that keep the cars from coupling back again as long as you keep pushing the car. This way you can uncouple as you drive across the decoupler and then continue pushing the car to the spot in the yard you wish to leave it. Then just back away from the car. Used this way, only one coupler at the entrance to a yard is needed. If you pull the cars across the decoupler, then you need a decoupler in every branch of the yard you wish to leave a car.

Edit: This image will show what I am trying to explain with the couplers. The image at the bottom left shows the couplers after they have been pushed across the decoupler. You can see the pre-uncoupler tab holds the coupler loops up and prevents them from re-engaging. As long as you keep pushing the car, they will not couple back together. Once you back away, the loops fall down to their normal position and will recouple again if the cars are pushed back together. This works with the Relex coupler shown and with the close couplers too. The only requirement is the pre-uncoupler tab identified in the top right image. LOL, I just noticed they have the text wrong. From top to bottom the parts should read "coupler loop", then "pre-uncoupler tab" and finally "coupler hook". Wish I could locate a copy of the uncoupler instructions from the 1970's. It had a few images showing the progression of the couplers across the uncoupler, making it much easier to see and understand.

UserPostedImage
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline Cargodog  
#6 Posted : 01 August 2015 00:03:07(UTC)
Cargodog

Denmark   
Joined: 29/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 132
Location: Middle east
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
For the decouplers, that should be a momentary output to the solenoid so that it raises to the decouple position and then drops back down. If it stays in the raised position you could have 1 of 2 problems - the electrical contact stays closed keeping the solenoid energized (eventually will burn out) or you could have residual magnetism keeping the decoupler raised. If it is a residual magnetism case I have solved the problem by opening up the solenoid case and placing a small piece of tape on the actuator in order to create enough of a gap that the residual magnetism is not strong enough, and the bar drops down when the power to the solenoid is off.

Peter


Thanks, Peter.

I just found a YouTube video showing how it's supposed to work. Wiring it for a momentary output is not a problem, soon should be able to wire it properly when I get home. Thanks for clarifying.

Now I just need to find a way to connect 8 uncouplers to 1 SP. ;-)

Cheers, René...
If everything's under control, you're just not going fast enough.
There are two types of men. Those who want to build a big layout, and those who didn't get permission from the wife.
Offline Cargodog  
#7 Posted : 01 August 2015 00:20:37(UTC)
Cargodog

Denmark   
Joined: 29/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 132
Location: Middle east
Thanks for the brilliant explanation, Matt.

LOL. A at the first reference to the picture, I skipped the rest of your post, and looked at it, but couldn't make any sense of the description. No wonder, when they got it wrong.

You write about pushing and/or pulling cars across the decoupler. I just wanna make sure. I'm supposed to stop the train with the coupling right on top of the decoupler, give it a flick, then push the cars, right? As shown in this YouTube video:


The reason I'm asking is that, if I look at the symbol for the decoupler on my ECoS II, it has two "positions". One shows the decoupler "decoupled", the other it shows the decoupler "coupled". Why would it show two different symbols, if it's just meant to be a momentary action? In effect, my ECoS symbol will toggle between coupled/decoupled position/symbol regardless of the fact the physical decoupler will always be in the "coupled" position, save for the momentary flick.

Cheers, René...
If everything's under control, you're just not going fast enough.
There are two types of men. Those who want to build a big layout, and those who didn't get permission from the wife.
Offline biedmatt  
#8 Posted : 01 August 2015 03:24:31(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
The video is perfect, only instead of stopping, press the button to energize the decoupler as the cars you want to separate pass over the uncoupler then continue pushing them to the place you wish to spot them in the yard. Then back out and configure the switches to a different siding, proceed forward, pop the uncoupler and push that car(s) into a different branch in the yard. Used in this manner, you only need an uncoupler at the yard entrance. Like the real railroads, you can take an incoming train and then split it up between several sidings in a yard so the cars can continue on to their separate destinations. Now we are running a railroad and not playing trains. Generate a set of cards with the road numbers of the incoming cars, randomly place them in a different pile representing the sidings you have available and then break it up placing the right cars together in their respective sidings. Now a road loko can enter the yard, couple to the newly created consist of cars and proceed to the next yard or final destination.

As a kid I used my uncouplers wrong. When I got back into it as a young adult I finally could understand what Marklin was explaining in the manual and how to operate the uncoupler and push the cars into place rather than just dumping them off as you pass over an uncoupler. Used as intended, you can do so much more. Now you'll feel the need to go looking for all kinds of shunting lokos so you can play in a yard. LOL I think I have a dozen or so. Or you could really go ape, build a humping yard and buy a Marklin 7043 humping signal and push the cars up an incline, fire the uncoupler and then watch the car(s) roll down the other side into their respective sidings creating a new consist.

The ECoS is a universal controller meant to be used with several different manufacturers. Perhaps there are some that require a push on/push off function.

http://up.picr.de/11587720af.jpg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSM_Tyfmts

Edited by user 01 August 2015 13:50:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
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