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Offline Tomgi  
#1 Posted : 11 March 2015 17:07:57(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Hi All,

I recently aquired a CE 800 loco in a lot of Märklin with some other stuff I was after. It runs in both directions but needs some spare parts and a cleaning. Namely a spring for the reverse relay, new light bulbs and the screw to attach the body to the chassis is missing. Tips on where to get thos parts are welcome of course. I also wouldn't mins knowing what version it is.

But now to the main problem. Some previous owner repainted it brown and did a bad job. Looks really bad imo. So I want to remove the newer paint and hopefully retain the original paint from the factory, probably green. I have tried gentle rubbing with a watered piece of cloth but I was not lucky enough the paint was waterbased. If the brown paint can't be removed without also removing the factory paint I have miniature wargaming friends that can help me repaint it with spray paint. Pictures below. Any advice/ideas are welcome.

/Tomgi

Tomgi attached the following image(s):
DSC_800_0020.jpg
DSC_800_0021.jpg
DSC_800_0022.jpg
DSC_800_0023.jpg
DSC_800_0024.jpg
DSC_800_0025.jpg
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Offline hgk  
#2 Posted : 11 March 2015 20:27:51(UTC)
hgk


Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 455
Location: Pacific Ocean
Hello Tomgi,
There are a number of youtube videos on stripping model paint, most of them on stripping all the paint from plastic models. If the original factory paint hasn't been removed and the new paint is somewhat recent, then there might be a chance that the new paint will come off leaving some or all of the original. The least aggressive remover seems to be the stronger household cleaners like simple green or purple power (common cleaners sold in the US). You want to occasionally check on the process and try using a soft toothbrush to see how it's progressing. Other paint solvents are also mentioned but I would recommend starting with the household cleaner as a first attempt. It looks like the wheels were also painted but be sure to leave the wheels in place and hand clean them with isopropyl alcohol or a mild paint thinner.
Offline Janne75  
#3 Posted : 11 March 2015 21:18:44(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hejsan Tomgi,

It is CE 800 or CEB 800. CE 800 (green) was produced only in one version during the years 1953-1958. CEB 800 (brown) was produced only in one version during the years 1955-1958, but from 1957 it's box had a number "3002". Both have texts "CE 800" and "E63 02". But the "real" 3002 was produced in two versions, in 1958-1959 version 3002.1 with number "3000" and in 1960-1961 version 3002.2 without numbers "3000" or "CE 800".

Source is www.lokshow.de and you can click "wertermittlung" and write in "artikelsuche" the model you want = CE 800, CEB 800 or 3002.

Ha det bra! BigGrin

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 11 March 2015 22:06:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
This is what I could find:
http://www.maerklin.de/s...r.php?artikelnummer=3001

Here are some sites that may help you locate parts:

http://www.buco-hag-maer...e.ch/82/maerklin-spur-h0
www.apc-miniaturmodell.de
http://www.bahn-web.de/sehling/pages/w14.pdf

General info:
http://www.wedero.de/mae...otiven/ce_800/ce_800.htm

My recommendation would be to look for a better looking body on ebay.de and then make one restored model using parts from both locomotives if the second one is not fully operational.
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i...29+Maerklin&_sacat=0

Regards

Mike C
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Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 11 March 2015 23:04:10(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France

Some parts (not all!) could be found here:

http://ritter-restaurati...l=;usrPwd=;katKey=1.10.1

On the other hand, the screw is a pretty standard one- M 2.5 x 6 mm, nickeled, with countersink head diam. 4mm
Luckily you live in a metric country, so you may find these easily.

BTW, looks like you're missing the springs for the pantograph too, but at least you have the original double whip one!

These are almost impossible to find (I still have a couple in my own treasure chest )

Good luck with you project





Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 12 March 2015 00:59:18(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
to tell you which version it is, it can help us if you know the road number, Märklin made several of them including Primex but these had been a simpler version with imitated handrails.

to take the paint off is more or less impossible and some of the original paint job wasn't that crash hot either, paint peeling off and this was most probably the reason the person repainted it but as you said didn't make a good job of it.

you had locos with road numbers 6302, 6304, 6308 (green = Primex) and 163001-1 (hobby version), they consisted of colours: green, brown, wine red, carmine red


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Janne75  
#7 Posted : 12 March 2015 05:45:36(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

This one is definitely with road number E63 02 when you look closely to those photos. What also makes it CE 800, CEB 800 or maybe Märklin 3002 (not Primex 3002) is that double whip pantograph and old type reversing unit and motor.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline analogmike  
#8 Posted : 13 March 2015 00:56:15(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 737
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
wow; they even got paint on the window! and that color; oy vey! i would try to dilute a water based paint remover. maybe start with 75% water and 25% remover and see how it goes. also scrub with a stiff toothbrush. i would also recommend removing all handrails and window acetate before beginning. as to the wheels and frame; i would try a soft brass brush dry (gently on wheel spokes) and repaint gloss red with a tiny paintbrush. remove rods and carefully scrape away paint with x-acto knife then polish with brillo soap pad & water. good luck, take it slow, patience is key. mike
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
Offline Tomgi  
#9 Posted : 24 March 2015 18:57:08(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Quick update: I have soaked a cotton swab in chemically clean isopropyl aclohol and rubbed at some paint on the chassi inside the loco. The paint came off easy. I then used the same swab to rub at a point on the body which also came off rather easily and revealed that yes, the original color is indeed green. Since this is a back burner project for me it will probably be some time before I can show any pictures of a restored loco but now I know it can be done. I just couldn't get it out of my head hence this thread. I will post pictures once there's anything worthwhile to show, just don't hold your breath waiting for them!

/Tomgi
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Offline Dangermouse  
#10 Posted : 26 March 2015 11:01:05(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
I had a similar one a few months ago with a later version of this loco. Previous owner had painted the roof and in the process caked the insulators and other detail parts solid in paint!

Carefully unbent the split pins holding them on, stripped the roof down, scrubbed the excess paint off with a nailbrush and then hand-painted it with acrylic aluminium silver. Still need to sort the running out (has a Lokpilot but doesn't always want to move in one direction) but it looks much better now.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline Tomgi  
#11 Posted : 19 November 2015 16:46:05(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
UserPostedImage
DSC_0451.JPG
[Edit: Copied the attached file location to the insert image function so it will show directly in the post. Shown image and attached file are the same.]

Update: My nephew, age 4, saw this loco on my workbench and has been asking me when I'll get it fixed. Last time he was here he also wanted to play with the green loco he had seen me traveling with on photos, ie the Crocodile when it visited Sweden. I don't have a Crocodile but I showed him the patch on this loco I had cleaned and said "Look, this loco is green under this bad paint. I can clean it and fix it and then you'll have a green loco to play with next time you visit me." He accepted that.

Next time is on saturday and it's not running yet! Scared

I have attached a photo of it's current condition. Almost all the brown paint has been removed with isopropyl alcohol, an old toothbrush, cotton swabs, tooth picks and tissue paper. Unfortunately some of the factory paint went with it but it can charitably be called green as promised. I have removed the brushes and can easily turn the wheels with my thumb but I can also see that the gear train is rather dirty. I have tried to carefully remove the motor shield to clean behind it with lacknafta (as far as I can tell that's basically lighter fluid) but I can't get it off. I have been unable to find disassembly instructions for the CE 800 and I don't want to break anything.

So, how do I best clean the gear train and the commutator? Where, how and what do I disassemble to accomplish that?

Oh, the brushes installed where both carbon brushes. I assume that is wrong and this loco should have one copper mesh brush and one carbon?

My main short term goal is to have it running by saturday even if it looks like crap. After that I don't rightly know. I might go all out and clean all paint off by soaking so it can be repainted and look good afterwards. I'd have to enlist some help with that though since I don't have the equipment or experience to a good job with it. I do have some friends that play various types of miniature battles that should be able to help me. But that's for later.
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Offline Tomgi  
#12 Posted : 07 December 2015 14:00:59(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Next time has come and gone and I almost got the loco ready in time. It was cleaned and only needed oiling and reassembly. Luckily my nephew was at first occupied with all the guests and stuffing his face with generous helpings from both birthday cakes, the baking of which had kept me from finishing with the loco. Once he remembered he was easily distracted by letting him run a larger loco than ever before, a 3095 steamer.

When I finally reassembled and oiled the loco it ran well except there's a problem with reversing direction. In the pictures posted earlier in the thread you can see the reverse relay. It's a four stage one that needs two pulses to reverse direction. The current problem is the loco is jumping ahead a little at the first pulse which puts in neutral. At the second pulse it takes off at high speed after which it runs fine in the same direction it races in which is the reverse direction compared to before the previous pulse. So it changes direction with two pulses but jumps at the first and races at the second. This behaviour is with a brand new 7194 relay spring situated at the first hook, ie the shortest length.

I first used a somewhat abused spring from another loco awaiting repair and service. I tried with that spring on both hooks hooked to various places on the spring to vary the tension. That spring is now very abused but I never managed to get the loco to behave properly with it. I got results ranging from buzzing moved relay arm but no movement, minor to major jumps when reversing, loco setting off at high speed and loco moving even when it should stand still with lights on. So I used a brand new spring which I tried at both hooks without success. It moves and it changes direction but it never stands still when reversing whatever I do.

I'm wondering if the 7194 is the right spring for this relay? If not, which spring should I use and how do I get it? If the problem is something else I'd be grateful for any advice, tips or instructions for dummies thrown my way.

Thanks!
/Tomgi
ps.
I'm not sure I'm using the right terms to describe what's happening so I'd appreciate being told what terms to use.
ds.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 07 December 2015 16:38:28(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Tomgi Go to Quoted Post

I'm wondering if the 7194 is the right spring for this relay? If not, which spring should I use and how do I get it? If the problem is something else I'd be grateful for any advice, tips or instructions for dummies thrown my way.

Thanks!
/Tomgi
ps.
I'm not sure I'm using the right terms to describe what's happening so I'd appreciate being told what terms to use.
ds.


Oh, I think you are using the right terms OK. I understand what is happening.

I suspect you are observing the reason those reverse units didn't seem to last too long as production units. They were changed to a different one later that didn't show the same JATO assisted takeoff on the second pulse. Blink

I don't think it is possible to adjust this mechanism to avoid this on the second pulse.

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Offline Tomgi  
#14 Posted : 07 December 2015 22:42:10(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


I don't think it is possible to adjust this mechanism to avoid this on the second pulse.



Bummer. I'll have to look into replacing it with a newer type of reverse relay then as I want to keep this loco analog. As long as it races like this I'm not comfortable letting my nephew play with it, he gets enough derailed cars and wagons as it is anyway.

I have recently seen a photo of the same type of reverse unit that had a copper spring. The photo was good enough to see it was copper and not rust. Can't find it now of course. Is that a thrid party spring or something Märklin produced way back when?

/Tomgi
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Offline CDVernell  
#15 Posted : 23 December 2015 16:15:19(UTC)
CDVernell

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Ontario, Ottawa
100_2203 (Copy).JPG

I find this thread very apropos, given that I am trying to put my old CE800 back into running order after several decades in less-than-ideal storage.
On my test track, I too have been experiencing that jump from a standing start on reversal; glad to know it isn't just me.
My loco has the original green paint on a green plastic body, though the silver roof is flaking off. A corner of the roof has broken off; I may try a repair with a piece of styrene, eventually.

Edited by user 28 December 2015 01:07:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Tomgi  
#16 Posted : 23 December 2015 22:49:36(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
I haven't found a solution yet, but if I do I'll post it here.

/Tomgi
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