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Offline Tomgi  
#1 Posted : 26 February 2015 14:18:24(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Hi All,

I have a lot of M-track that needs to be cleaned before I use it. I can see rubbing the rails with a cue tip as a method on a working layout but it seems very inefficient with loose pieces of track. Any tips and advice on how to make the cleaning as fast an painless as possible are greatly appreciated. Except advice to change to K-track or C-track. Besides the cost I love my M-track and want my first layout after 20 years to be M-track. So I need to clean it.

Regards,
/Tomgi
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Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 26 February 2015 15:08:20(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Tomgi,

Here is what I did with my loose m tracks.

1. Use a rubber to remove any part of real dirt on the rails.

2. Wash them in warm soapy water with a good brush (max 10 pcs at a time). For turnouts I sprayed the solenoid with a contact cleaner and carefully washed the track upside down.

3. Immediately afterwards blow them dry (I used my air compressor).

4. Use a clean cloths with some alcohol and rub clean the rails.

5. They then looked like new!

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 26 February 2015 17:25:43(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
From my own experience I find that using an eraser (rubber) to clean the rails makes the matter worse, especially if you use the pink or ink style erasers. It essentially is similar to any of the other abrasive track cleaners that do a nice job of cleaning the rail but leave pits and scratches for dirt to accumulate in faster.

The white Staedler drafting erasers are gentler and similar to the Woodland Scenics track cleaning pads and are the only eraser that I would consider using in a pinch.

Normally I use lighter fluid or rubbing alcohol on a cloth or paper towel and that does a better longer lasting job.

Peter
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 26 February 2015 17:58:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
My personal preference for wiping the rail tops is some old heavy duty cotton such as that used in jeans or lab coats. With something like alcohol as a cleaning fluid this seems to remove most of the gunk for normal cleaning.

However for washing complete pieces of track, a warm soapy wash and scrubbed with an old toothbrush or similar sort of brush used for cleaning pots and pans (the sort with nylon bristles, not 'pot scrubbers') seems to work, and then dry them out properly with a gentle air blower like a hair dryer on its lowest warmth setting. I wouldn't recommend a paint stripper hot air blower, I don't think you can get the temperature low enough, you are likely to melt the plastic pieces that hold the center studs in place.

I am hesitant to use stuff like lighter fluid for cleaning as it attacks some plastics and paints.

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Offline Tom Jessop  
#5 Posted : 26 February 2015 21:09:55(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia



For memory there was a item on the old MML where someone used their kitchen dishwasher I am not sure if detergent or the other additive for streak free finish was used or just plain old hot water , this method could not be used for M track that had fibre insulating pads that hold the centre rail /stud section. I think that these were only used on the older solid contact rail . Does any one have the archives of the MML available ?


Cheers Tom in Oz
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Offline hennabm  
#6 Posted : 26 February 2015 21:19:11(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
Hi

I have a track rubber from Peco and then use a substance called "track magic".

I only use the rubber on really bad bits as the track magic fluid is good.

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
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Online xxup  
#7 Posted : 26 February 2015 21:26:18(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I seem to remember someone on the forum starting with washing all of his track in a dishwasher. Not something I would do, but it does make sense in a way. You would need to use something like Track Magic on the rails to seal the metal. See http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DLAC-13


I strongly recommend Track Magic. A friend in the UK introduced me to the product over two years ago and it has nearly eliminated all the maintenance of my m-track layout. I covered all the rails on the layout two years ago and I have only recently redone a stretch with some turnouts.

EDIT: Here's the dishwasher post -> https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postst31530_cleaning-old-3700-Marklin-curves.aspx#post461479 Laugh
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#8 Posted : 27 February 2015 01:18:20(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
I have used Track Magic & very impressed with the results . A bit hard to find in Oz but when on a trip to Melbourne we stopped in at Mittagong & purchased 2 bottles for experiment . A few $$ well spent from what I have observed so far , it comes with a sponge applicator with handle & a small brush thing for those hard to get at places .

Cheers Tom in Oz.


I didn't think the Dishwasher article was only from last year ,the old memory must be starting to slip .BigGrin BigGrin Blink
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Offline Tomgi  
#9 Posted : 27 February 2015 01:51:53(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Thanks for all the replies. I must say I'm surprised about the advice of warm water and soap. My gut reaction was Hell No! I do have some recently aquired track in horrible condition I might try it on though. A problem is I don't have a way to air dry the tracks afterwards. No air compressor. No hair drier. The only thing I can think of is my vacuum cleaner if it has a reverse setting. Not sure it does. Just laying it out on towels or sheets to dry seems like a capital letter Bad Idea. A tooth brush has kind of a small contact area. Would a potato brush or a floor brush with tooth brush like bristles work? Will any soap do? What about dish detergents? I also need to find out what exactly rubbing alcohol is in Swedish. :) Quick google tells me it's Isopropyl alcohol, is that what you guys mean by rubbing alcohol? That magic track product seems to be available in Sweden at least.

So, assuming I chicken out on the whole water bath idea, how can I dry clean my track?
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Offline SteamNut  
#10 Posted : 27 February 2015 03:05:27(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Just wondering if you mean dirt as dirt from the back yard or a lot of rust? Personally I do not think there is a "dry" method to clean track or a way that does it that does quickly with little or no effort. If you have a lot of rust examine your track to see if there is pitting on top of the track or anywhere there would by direct electric contact and if there is all your efforts would be for nothing. Everyone has to clean their track periodically no matter what type it is but if it is in bad condition to start off with you can expect more problems then normal. If you run digital loks on your tracks even in analog mode they are more sensitive to bad track then the older loks, at least in my experience. If you do wash your track perhaps you can dry them in a oven set a low temperature. I certainly wish you the best of luck. I have M track also, however I rather wish I stated with K or C to have avoided some of the problems I encountered-Fred
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Online xxup  
#11 Posted : 27 February 2015 03:28:44(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post
I have used Track Magic & very impressed with the results . A bit hard to find in Oz ...


I used to get mine from the UK, but the last escalation of Terror Alert meant the end of even minor solvent liquids arriving by post.. Fortunately, you can now buy it online down here at -> http://www.rcworld.com.au/deluxe-track-magic.html
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Danlake  
#12 Posted : 27 February 2015 06:14:30(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by: Tomgi Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all the replies. I must say I'm surprised about the advice of warm water and soap. My gut reaction was Hell No! I do have some recently aquired track in horrible condition I might try it on though. A problem is I don't have a way to air dry the tracks afterwards. No air compressor. No hair drier. The only thing I can think of is my vacuum cleaner if it has a reverse setting. Not sure it does. Just laying it out on towels or sheets to dry seems like a capital letter Bad Idea. A tooth brush has kind of a small contact area. Would a potato brush or a floor brush with tooth brush like bristles work? Will any soap do? What about dish detergents? I also need to find out what exactly rubbing alcohol is in Swedish. :) Quick google tells me it's Isopropyl alcohol, is that what you guys mean by rubbing alcohol? That magic track product seems to be available in Sweden at least.

So, assuming I chicken out on the whole water bath idea, how can I dry clean my track?


Hi Tomgi,

If you have normal dirty tracks (but not rusty) washing them in warm soapy water will not harm them.

You can just dry them by giving them a shake and a good blow with your lungs to remove most of the water from the rails and contacts.

You could also buy a can of air duster and use that on critical parts.

If you have rusty tracks you will need some king of cleaning fluid and gently abrasion to get rid of the rust.

Subsequently you need to ensure the atmosphere in the train room is not too humid else the rust will come back again.

And the best preventive maintenance is frequent running of trainsThumpUp

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Br502362  
#13 Posted : 27 February 2015 07:27:59(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 680
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Tomgi Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all the replies. I must say I'm surprised about the advice of warm water and soap. My gut reaction was Hell No! I do have some recently aquired track in horrible condition I might try it on though. A problem is I don't have a way to air dry the tracks afterwards. No air compressor. No hair drier. The only thing I can think of is my vacuum cleaner if it has a reverse setting. Not sure it does. Just laying it out on towels or sheets to dry seems like a capital letter Bad Idea. A tooth brush has kind of a small contact area. Would a potato brush or a floor brush with tooth brush like bristles work? Will any soap do? What about dish detergents? I also need to find out what exactly rubbing alcohol is in Swedish. :) Quick google tells me it's Isopropyl alcohol, is that what you guys mean by rubbing alcohol? That magic track product seems to be available in Sweden at least.

So, assuming I chicken out on the whole water bath idea, how can I dry clean my track?


Hi Tomgi,

I have used windscreen washer fluid (vindrute spolarvätska) which is nearly pure isopropyl alcohol to clean just the rails.
There are also with water diluted washer fluids but be sure that you get the raw fluid. Read also the content label
so that it really is isopropyl as there are other substances too. I use Sonax which you will find from autoparts stores at least here in Finland.

Otherwise I use warm water with toothbrush to clean dirty tracks and dry with my wifes hair dryer.


Best regards

Åke
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Offline Tomgi  
#14 Posted : 27 February 2015 15:40:23(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
I took som pictures.

First picture shows tracks in three conditions. To the left is very good, no rust and little dust. In the middle is no rust but dusty. Most of my track falls into these categories. On the right is rusty rails but no rust on roadbed. Som of my track are like this. I also remeber seeing some tracks with rust on the underside of the roadbed but nowhere else but can't find them now.

The second picture shows the nightmare. I have some track in this condition from a recently aquired lot I purchased for the rolling stock. There's also some turnouts in similar condition.

EDIT: I have added smaller pictures that shows without download. The same as the ones to download, just resized.
Tomgi attached the following image(s):
DSC_0003.jpg
DSC_0004.jpg
Tracks01.jpg
Tracks02.jpg
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Offline SteamNut  
#15 Posted : 28 February 2015 13:28:14(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
For the dusty track just use a rag that is damp with lighter fluid. Most good track cleaners are flammable till they are dry. For the rusty tracks you might want to try what my oldest daughter, who owns a bicycle shop, uses for rusty chains. She soaks them in Coca Cola. Give it a try on one section. After the soak rinse them with water and dry them with a hair dryer or perhaps in the oven set at a low temperature. Use Track Magic to help prevent this from happening again
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Offline Yumgui  
#16 Posted : 28 February 2015 21:21:28(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,660
Location: Paris, France
Hi,

In addition to xxup's link above on the "dishwasher" topic, here is another :

https://www.marklin-user...Cleaning.aspx#post441096

As this topic comes up more than regularly, could we please get an intelligent sticky somewhere dear Webmasters; Gen MRR, My Layout ... elsewhere ?

Thanks,

Yum Cool
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all
My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A
Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Tomgi  
#17 Posted : 24 March 2015 21:44:38(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Thanks for all your tips. I have read all the links supplied here, googled but found mostly pages in german which I can't read and watched a lot of youtube vidoes but they all dealt with cleaning tracks on layouts, not unmounted tracks. I am still not convinced warm water and soap is a good idea but for arguments sake, let's say I try it with some of that really dirty track I posted a picture of earlier. I would in that case clean the tracks with warm water and dish soap for hand washing dishes. Not having any way to blow dry them I would shake off as much water as possible and place them on a dry towel on one of those metal plates that fit in an oven. This would then go into the oven at about 50 degrees celsius for some time to dry. How long is recommended? Now for the big question: After the track is dry and out of the oven, how important is it to use something like track magic on it? If no further action is taken after drying, will I have problems with rust or is it good to go?

/Tomgi
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Offline SteamNut  
#18 Posted : 25 March 2015 12:27:48(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
I never tried the oven idea but try a 1/2 hour at a time. You need some type of protective coating to prevent future problems so I would recommend Track Magic (similar to waxing your car to protect the paint). The climate is important as high humidity will damage your track along with your loks and rolling stock. High temperature will warp plastic. Most likely you will need to clean your track once a year as dust and the rubber from the traction tires will be deposited on the tracks. At least the center rail (studs) keep themselves clean by just running your trains. When designing your layout keep in mind you need access for cleaning and derailments. Also you will not believe the amount of dirt (gunk) will accumulate on the wheels of the rolling stock and they will have to be cleaned also. I try to do this also once a year and also oiling my rolling stock to make sure they roll freely. I wish you all the best - Fred
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Offline Tomgi  
#19 Posted : 25 March 2015 22:02:10(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
This is probably not good. I had just dropped 12 pieces of really dirty track with lots of scenery stuck to them into hot water and soap when I got a text: picking you up in 10. Turns out the weekend road trip starts today, not tomorrow. I was completely unprepared and panic packed in 8 minutes. The tracks I placed on a newspaper and covered with a towel. I'll be home again late Sunday and I'm kind of dreading lifting that towel...

/Tomgi
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Offline Tomgi  
#20 Posted : 21 August 2015 17:18:03(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
Here's an update on my attempts at track cleaning. Better late than never. Last post I reported leaving wet tracks under a towel and left town in a hurry. They didn't seem to be any worse for wear when I got back and for unspecified reasons they stayed under that towel for quite some time before I returned to them. But finally I did. I scrubbed them with a scrubbing brush in the sink filled with warm water and dish soap. I also used an old tooth brush. Not really happy with the result as there's still plenty of color, glue and scenery stuff left on them and some factory paint was lost as well. To dry them I put them in the owen at 150 degrees celsius thinking that should evaporate the water quickly. It did. But it also half melted the plastic so the puko rails moved causing shorts when testing the tracks later. Some bending, remelting and general abuse later the tracks no longer causes shorts but I still won't use them. Lesson learned I guess. Oh well, these tracks where junk anyway so no big loss. Pictures attached. DSC_0404_800.jpgDSC_0403_800.jpgDSC_0407_800.jpg

Some questions:

1: Those of you who use Track Magic after cleaning your tracks, do you apply it to the whole piece, top, bottom, rails, everywhere? Or just on the actual rails?

2: What exactly is Lighter Fluid? I see it mentioned in many threads about cleaning but I have been unable to figure out what it is chemically. Basically, what is it called in Sweden if I want to buy it in bulk?
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Offline SteamNut  
#21 Posted : 22 August 2015 00:19:37(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
I use Track Magic on just the rails. Lighter fluid is the fluid in refillable cigarette lighters (like a Zippo) and comes in 12 fluid oz. (355ml). Maybe you can glue ballast on the outside bases to improve their appearance.
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Offline analogmike  
#22 Posted : 22 August 2015 03:04:28(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 736
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
wash n dry is fine for most track but when they get as bad as the rusty ones you have got here i would put them in the box for "special projects". perhaps paint them grimy- black and use them in the lok shop or in a coal mine. most dealers always have fair condition m-track for sale for cheap. when the rust is as bad as this you are going to experience all sorts of ground problems. mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline Mike863  
#23 Posted : 22 August 2015 07:14:19(UTC)
Mike863

United States   
Joined: 19/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Florida
I have had plenty of problems with lots of old M track but it is usually not that hard to make it functional again. As far as cosmetically improving the looks of track that has old scenery paint and so on, I don't have much to offer that others haven't covered.

If you need to clean up some cosmetic rusty areas like the body of the track or the sides of the rails, wiping down with a light oil will clean those up nicely. As far as surface rust, wiping down the rusty parts of the track with light solvents/oils like WD-40 or something similar or even a penetrant like Liquid Wrench will help tremendously to 'fix' the rust, like with a carbon steel knife or an old blued gun barrel. This even works great on rusted railings and so on on the cars and lasts for a long time to prevent the rust from coming back. Just keep in mind that any oil is not going to help with electrical contact. You can wipe down the rusty stuff on the sides of the rails and the rest of the track body with a light oil to hold down the rust for a good while and then carefully clean up the oil from the contact surfaces if needed with a solvent.

If the track seems clean with no rust on the contact surfaces but does not work real well, you may just have lots of oily, rubbery residue. Wiping down with the solvent based cleaners should take care of that. It seems that most of the track cleaners are intended to rub dirt and greasy residues off the newer plated track without any real abrasive action, so not likely to do all that much good with old rusty M track if the rust is the main problem.

If the contact areas (tops of rails and pukos) are lousy with rust or the rails are pitted from lots of electrical arcing, don't be afraid to scrape them down a bit (back edge of a knife, screwdriver tip) or even use some emery paper (real fine sandpaper). You have to have clean bare metal for good electrical contact. Danlake hit on one of the basics. Run the locos a lot and they will over time scrape along and clean up the track and keep it all going. Living in Florida with really high humidity, the M track always gets a light rusting on the contact surfaces if it isn't used constantly. I usually have to let some locos and cars just beat and pound around the track for a while to get everything going right again most every time I decide to run the trains. The rails are easy enough to scrape or carefully sand down a bit when needed (as I said, you need bare clean metal for a good contact) but you may never need to do it again after getting the track 'rehabilitated' the first time if you keep the layout in use. The pukos are tougher and probably best dealt with by just running the trains and letting the slider scrape of the points unless you have some tough spots that just need some more agressive treatment at first until things get going again.

The older steel rails (and other Marklin metals on the older cars like the railings, for example) appear to be initially 'blued' to prevent rust. Once the bluing is worn through, the only option is to keep the metal contact surface clean and free of rust. A little bit of oiling can help hold off the cosmetic rust on other parts of the track off but does not help on the contact surfaces. Other newer track has different composition and coatings so sanding and scraping is likely to cause big problems and may cause permanent damage.

For comparison, just look at the sliders. Those seem to be chrome plated over brass or something similar. Once the chrome is worn through, they start to corrode. Once they get that bad, you can sand them down and get a little more life out of them but you might as well replace them. They'll never be as good as a new one once the chrome layer is gone.

There is still plenty of M track available. If you clean them up, oil off the rusty sides for looks, scrape down and clean up the contact areas for function and still have some real problem pieces, just toss them aside and get some others. Out of hundreds I got the same way in larger bulk deals to get the locos and cars with plenty that were pretty rusty and rough, I only have a handful of tracks that are still totally useless after a little bit of work and retired to the scrap box.

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Offline baggio  
#24 Posted : 23 August 2015 07:30:32(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Personally, I would NEVER, EVER put tracks in water. Scared

In order to clean the tracks I use Isopropyl (rubbing alcohol) and a clean J cloth. I apply it either to the track itself or I use a Marklin track-cleaning wagon. moisten the pads with the Isopropyl. The results are good.
Offline Tomgi  
#25 Posted : 23 August 2015 16:26:49(UTC)
Tomgi

Sweden   
Joined: 20/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Uppsala Lan, Uppsala
First off: Thanks for all the replies and tips. Now for some targeted answers.

@SteamNut: So you're not worried about the rest of the track piece rusting?

I know people mean zippo lighter fluid but thanks anyway. Someone else might not know and see your answer. That's how I learned in another thread after all. The problem is branded lighter fluid, like zippo, is expensive and comes in small containers. I want to buy large containers of no-name lighter fluid but when I tried to google exactly what lighter fluid is I found out that the definition of lighter fluid is rather fluid (pun intended). I was unable to find any rock solid information about what exactly zippo lighter fluid is called when the same stuff is sold in bulk to be used for cleaning. That was in english. Try finding a chemical product in swedish(or any language) when you're not sure about what it's called in english where you first learned about it. I have no desire to play guessing games with chemicals I plan on using so any in depth help here would be really appreciated.

@analogmike: I have plenty of good or easily made good track so lack of track is not an issue. I just wanted to see if track in this condition could be salvaged. It's from a job lot I purchased for the rolling stock and other accessories at a good price not counting the tracks. They look really rusty in the pictures but when I look closely with the Mark I Eyeball it's hard to tell what is painted to look like rust and what really is rust. Biggest issue seems to be paint and glued on scenery/ballast. Lots of it. My thought was that if I could find a way to restore the nightmare track to good working order preparing the merely dirty tracks would be easy. Maybe I should change my approach and start with the easiest tracks first and work my way down to the hopeless cases to not get discouraged along the way?

@Mike863: Please define "light oil" in ridiculous detail. :) I have WD-40 so I'll try that as you suggest on some of the nightmare pieces I have already ruined. Soak in it, spray and pray or scrub with a brush? As for abrasive methods all my reading on the subject has made me reach the conclusion anything more abrasive than pink pearl erasers or soft wood is a big no no as more dirt will collect in any scratches. So I'll stay away from emery paper and the like if at all possible.

@baggio: That's my plan for most of my tracks. That I used water on the nightmare tracks was simply a case of trial and error. If it got worse they where no loss and if it got better I had more usable tracks. So far my experiments have landed me somewhere in between.

General question: Has anyone tried polishing their M-Track after cleaning and rust removal with metal polish like autosol used by Martin T on the moving parts inside a turnout in his thread "M-rail switch 5202 - How to make a total upgrade"? Primarly the trackbed and not necessarily the rails. To prevent it rusting again.
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Offline rorosha  
#26 Posted : 23 August 2015 19:05:32(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: Tomgi Go to Quoted Post
First off: Thanks for all the replies and tips. Now for some targeted answers.

@SteamNut: So you're not worried about the rest of the track piece rusting?

I know people mean zippo lighter fluid but thanks anyway. Someone else might not know and see your answer. That's how I learned in another thread after all. The problem is branded lighter fluid, like zippo, is expensive and comes in small containers. I want to buy large containers of no-name lighter fluid but when I tried to google exactly what lighter fluid is I found out that the definition of lighter fluid is rather fluid (pun intended). I was unable to find any rock solid information about what exactly zippo lighter fluid is called when the same stuff is sold in bulk to be used for cleaning. That was in english. Try finding a chemical product in swedish(or any language) when you're not sure about what it's called in english where you first learned about it. I have no desire to play guessing games with chemicals I plan on using so any in depth help here would be really appreciated.

@analogmike: I have plenty of good or easily made good track so lack of track is not an issue. I just wanted to see if track in this condition could be salvaged. It's from a job lot I purchased for the rolling stock and other accessories at a good price not counting the tracks. They look really rusty in the pictures but when I look closely with the Mark I Eyeball it's hard to tell what is painted to look like rust and what really is rust. Biggest issue seems to be paint and glued on scenery/ballast. Lots of it. My thought was that if I could find a way to restore the nightmare track to good working order preparing the merely dirty tracks would be easy. Maybe I should change my approach and start with the easiest tracks first and work my way down to the hopeless cases to not get discouraged along the way?

@Mike863: Please define "light oil" in ridiculous detail. :) I have WD-40 so I'll try that as you suggest on some of the nightmare pieces I have already ruined. Soak in it, spray and pray or scrub with a brush? As for abrasive methods all my reading on the subject has made me reach the conclusion anything more abrasive than pink pearl erasers or soft wood is a big no no as more dirt will collect in any scratches. So I'll stay away from emery paper and the like if at all possible.

@baggio: That's my plan for most of my tracks. That I used water on the nightmare tracks was simply a case of trial and error. If it got worse they where no loss and if it got better I had more usable tracks. So far my experiments have landed me somewhere in between.

General question: Has anyone tried polishing their M-Track after cleaning and rust removal with metal polish like autosol used by Martin T on the moving parts inside a turnout in his thread "M-rail switch 5202 - How to make a total upgrade"? Primarly the trackbed and not necessarily the rails. To prevent it rusting again.



Zippo Lighter fluid used to be just plain Naphtha, it is now some modified form of Naphtha that has less of an odor. The CAS Numbers (Chemical identification numbers) listed on the bottle are 68410-97-9 and 64742-49-0. With those numbers, and the internet, you should be able to determine exactly what you're looking for. I would recommend just going to the Home Improvement Center, or Paint Store, and simply buying a can of Naphtha, sold as a cleaning solvent, related to painting.

Rodger
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Offline Mike863  
#27 Posted : 24 August 2015 07:17:31(UTC)
Mike863

United States   
Joined: 19/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Florida
Tomgi, you have two rust problems. You have cosmetic rust affecting the appearance of the track and you have rust and other problems on contact surfaces affecting track performance.

The cosmetic rust can be taken care of and greatly slowed down by oiling the rusting metal. Any oil rubbed on rusted carbon steel will help remove the surface rust (applied with cloth, brush, whatever and a little elbow grease) and will hold down the rust from returning due to a light surface coating that you leave behind. Even 30 weight motor oil will work, but too much of such relatively heavy oil will likely make a mess and may eventually get on to your contact surfaces and cause other problems. I suggest a light oil because it is easier to control how much you apply and easier to clean up any that does get on contact surfaces. WD-40 or anything similar has a very light amount of oil and also some other solvents that loosen rust and other sticky residues but relatively quickly evaporates. Use a cloth, brush it on and wipe it off with a cloth... Any old oily stuff will work wiped on the surface rust and will hold off the surface rust for a good while to keep it from coming back (maybe for years). Thin loco lube (expensive), sewing machine oil (where to get?), WD-40 or similar sprayed on a cloth, almost anything will work when rubbed on surface rust to loosen it and help get most of it off, and then keep it from coming back very quickly.

Oil does wonders for holding off surface rust but oil on the contact surfaces will cause more grief. It does not conduct very well. You could actually thoroughly rub down the rusty rails with oil to get rid of the rust and then come back and clean the oil off the top of the rail contact surface by wiping with a solvent (paint thinner, naptha, alcohol). The outsides of the track bases will rust where the paint has come off and the steel is exposed. The track were originally very well painted, but sharp edges can erode or chip, etc., for many reasons, and expose bare metal. Once the rust starts, it will work its way under the paint where it eventually chips off and you may find rusted unpainted areas. A quick wipe with some oil will slow this down and clean up the appearance.

The rails will rust where they are down to bare metal (on top) and on the sides where the original bluing treatment has simply been overcome. Rust on the top of the rails will prevent the loco wheels from making good contact and will affect the train running. Rust on the side of the rails only affects the look.

If the steel rail surfaces on M track are badly rusted and pitted so that you are getting lousy electric contact, you can't do much harm by taking the surface down to a smooth metal surface if it is bad enough. Like I said, scraping or rubbing hard with another piece of steel will do the trick most of the time, sanding if needed. Think of this as burnishing the metal back to a smooth clean surface. The problems I see with my M track are lots of use and abuse over the years, including rusting, physical dents, scratches and gouges, and pits and carbon buildup likely caused by electrical arcing. Get that back down to a smooth clean surface and most of the problems will go away. Run the locos often enough and it should stay in good shape since the constant friction keeps the surfaces clean.

Other newer tracks are different. I am not entirely sure about K track, but C track seems to be coated with chrome. Destroy the chrome coating, and you will probably have a major problem and need to replace it. This is where nothing but a light solvent (alcohol, naptha, paint thinner, whatever - all will get rid of gummy residues as will enough rubbing with a just a cloth or a felt pad or a rubber eraser) and minimal abrasion is your best bet.

M track is a different story. The couple of included photos seem to show some rails with the rail surfaces fairly beat up and some rusty. Work them over and they will probably be fine. Rust and pits on the surface of the rails will cause electrical problems but rust on the sides of the rails and the rail base is just cosmetic. I also see some rust underneath at the center rail connections that would be a whole different problem to fix if they cause problems. Those are just mechanical connections.

I am not too sure about any hot water and soap treatment for metal track that already has rust problems. Most likely will cause even more rust to form on the freshly cleaned surfaces unless something else is done immediately afterward to coat the surfaces to prevent rust.

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Offline MarcStermer2024  
#28 Posted : 09 January 2024 19:33:46(UTC)
MarcStermer2024

United States   
Joined: 09/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Ohio, Cleveland
After reading through this topic I tried the recommended method of removing rust (1) soaking in white vinegar for 6 hrs followed by (2) scrub brush followed by (3) deactivation in Baking Soda followed by (4) drying and lubrication. The results were completely unacceptable, as it completely removed all the paint from the roadbed and ruined the track. Also, it did not remove any of the rust. Its rather frustrating to follow advice here and have it ruin the track. I did find a product called "Iron Out" (in a spray bottle) which completely removed rust without damaging the painted surfaces. I also used a product called "Boeshield T-9" which is an anti-corrosive lubricant used on airplanes, this also does not harm the paint. My advice is, DO NOT use the vinegar method unless you want to remove all the paint from your M-track. Boeshield.jpgIron Out.jpg
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Offline DB Fan  
#29 Posted : 10 January 2024 02:09:16(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Where did you get Iron out? Know about Bo shield. Using it on my wood lathe to keep the bed from rusting.

Robert
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#30 Posted : 10 January 2024 11:33:05(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi
M Track being made of iron is prone to rusting.
Restoring a proper status includes:
- discarding those rail sections which are too rusty (where rust has created "holes" on the rolling surface. Also discard those bent rails.
- removing surface rust without creating groves (so use of abrasive material must be limited to very fine grain (1000 to 1500)
- rust causes issues not only on rails but also on studs (so don't forget to process them).
- using chemicals (non-neutral PH liquids) calls for neutralisation at the end of the process (which many won't do).
- restoring M tracks includes straightening of rail joiners. A tool for squeezing back the joiners is easy to do and to use.
- using a small bit of hard wood to remove rust is probably the best method.

So it will take a little time (no dream method made in a jiffy) but the track is so nice that it is worth it.

Cheers
Jean
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Offline marklinist5999  
#31 Posted : 10 January 2024 13:35:30(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,070
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
Where did you get Iron out? Know about Bo shield. Using it on my wood lathe to keep the bed from rusting.

Robert

Try Home Depot, Lowes, other type stores, Aco, and hardware. Amazon?
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