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Question Wiring a diorama for 2 & 3 rail - I would like to wire a layout for using AC & DC locomotives
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Offline kokomo  
#1 Posted : 18 January 2015 16:23:04(UTC)
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kokomo

Argentina   
Joined: 28/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 75
Hi!

I'm planning to build a new layout (diorama) with one piece of track only.
The thing is I would like to run AC or DC engines here so I need it to wire it for both systems.
I am thinking of using Peco 100 flexible track with concrete ties and I purchased Peco's SL-17 strip as Pukos.

My question is how best to wire this so throwing a switch I can either use it with AC or DC.
Does AC need both rails to be of the same polarity or can I have one of them insulated without problem?

I must confess I do not know much about electricity

Thanks!

Edited by user 18 January 2015 22:55:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Modeling Central European trains. Eras III, IV and V
Mostly UserPostedImage UserPostedImage UserPostedImage but can also get some French or Italian articles too
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 18 January 2015 18:36:44(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kokomo Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

I'm planning to build a new layout (diorama) with one piece of track only.
The thing is I would like to run AC or DC engines here so I need it to wire it for both systems.
I am thinking of using Peco 100 flexible track with concrete ties and I purchased Peco's SL-17 strip as Pukos.

My question is how best to wire this so throwing a switch I can either use it with AC or DC.
Does AC need both rails to be of the same polarity or can I have one of them insulated without problem?

I must confess I do not know much about electricity

Thanks!


How are you going to make a centre rail to run Marklin style locos (I assume this is what you mean by AC running? Confused ).

My preferred method if you are going to use Peco track is to use Weichen-Walter centre studs, which are designed for use with Peco track. See the Weichen-walter web page on fitting it for further information.

[/edit]
whoops, I didn't read your post properly, I see you have bought Pecos centre strip to use with it, personally I find that very ugly.

As to your question on the rails, you only need to connect to one rail when using the centre studs, but dirty wheels and track may be a problem, so your switch may as well connect both rails together.
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Offline pederbc  
#3 Posted : 18 January 2015 18:40:05(UTC)
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pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 182
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi,

Today in the digital MR era it's better to talk about 2- or 3-rail. As far as I know all AC uses 3-rail and DC using 2-rail. In digital MR it doesn't matter, it's the same power, DC with digital signal overlay. so what you want to do is use a 3-rail system where you can separate the 2 outer rails electrically. Märklins C- and K-tracks can do just that. Then another issue, not to forget, is the difference in wheel geometry between AC and DC. Märklin who I suppose invented the 3-rail system designed wheels slightly different but it can make quite a difference when it comes to derailing etc.

/Peder
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 18 January 2015 18:42:20(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Today in the digital MR era it's better to talk about 2- or 3-rail. As far as I know all AC uses 3-rail and DC using 2-rail. In digital MR it doesn't matter, it's the same power, DC with digital signal overlay. so what you want to do is use a 3-rail system where you can separate the 2 outer rails electrically. Märklins C- and K-tracks can do just that. Then another issue, not to forget, is the difference in wheel geometry between AC and DC. Märklin who I suppose invented the 3-rail system designed wheels slightly different but it can make quite a difference when it comes to derailing etc.

/Peder


yeah, but he is making a diorama so really only needs power to the loco etc for lighting and other effects.
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Offline kokomo  
#5 Posted : 18 January 2015 19:35:39(UTC)
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kokomo

Argentina   
Joined: 28/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 75
hi guys!

thanks for all the prompt replies.

Ok, so I will re-phrase my previous post to something like this.

I am planning to build a small diorama where I would like to run, for a short distance i.e. 90 cm, either Marklin or any other loco (2 rail or 3 rail).

I am wondering if anything such as what I draw below would be feasible for 3 Rail.

UserPostedImage


Or, if not, how best to wire for having the right rail alternate either from Positive to Negative polarity

Thanks again!
Modeling Central European trains. Eras III, IV and V
Mostly UserPostedImage UserPostedImage UserPostedImage but can also get some French or Italian articles too
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kokomo
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 18 January 2015 19:46:54(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

Instead of "positive" and "negative" I will call it "red" and "brown".

You can get a two-pole ON/OFF/ON switch.
Left rail will always be brown.
Centre rail will be connected to the switch with red/not conn./not conn.
Right rail goes to the other pole of the switch with brown/not conn./red.

Cost-effective solution that uses both rails for three-rail operation.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline kokomo  
#7 Posted : 18 January 2015 21:44:51(UTC)
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kokomo

Argentina   
Joined: 28/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

Instead of "positive" and "negative" I will call it "red" and "brown".

You can get a two-pole ON/OFF/ON switch.
Left rail will always be brown.
Centre rail will be connected to the switch with red/not conn./not conn.
Right rail goes to the other pole of the switch with brown/not conn./red.

Cost-effective solution that uses both rails for three-rail operation.


Thanks!

What kind of switch do you mean? A DPDT one for instance? Only one switch does it all?

Modeling Central European trains. Eras III, IV and V
Mostly UserPostedImage UserPostedImage UserPostedImage but can also get some French or Italian articles too
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 18 January 2015 21:55:52(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
I'd go for a DPCO (double pole, centre off) with three positions for three-rail, off, two-rail.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
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