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Offline Rocca  
#1 Posted : 06 May 2013 09:47:05(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
dear Märklin friends,

I need to ask you suggestions how to build a shuttle train route on a loop back which enters in two different station tracks. I have on them 2 different circuit tracks just entering the station. I mean, how can I make the locos leaving the station through the first track and then entering back in the second one and then going back ot first ones and so on?

Thank you in advance
Offline klarinettmeister  
#2 Posted : 06 May 2013 11:41:33(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 798
Location: Kirseberg
Hi Rocca!

I've done a simple thing by fooling the CS that it thinks it´s the same route by connecting the 2 contact tracks on the 2 different trakcs to the same S88 input. Also I´ve used the memory to switch the turnout so that the train will run to the correct track the next time it goes back.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by klarinettmeister
Offline Rocca  
#3 Posted : 06 May 2013 11:54:33(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by: klarinettmeister Go to Quoted Post
Hi Rocca!

I've done a simple thing by fooling the CS that it thinks it´s the same route by connecting the 2 contact tracks on the 2 different trakcs to the same S88 input. Also I´ve used the memory to switch the turnout so that the train will run to the correct track the next time it goes back.



Hi Klarinettmeister,

Thank you so so so much for your advice...it is very precious to me!! so you mean that I can connect the outgoing swicth of the first track with the entering one of the second ones and so the entering ones of the first with the outgoing of the second ones...isn't it?
thanks so much

Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 06 May 2013 12:17:32(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hi Rocco, Please specify your type of controller ?
Peter
Offline Rocca  
#5 Posted : 06 May 2013 12:20:56(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hi Rocco, Please specify your type of controller ?



dear Clapcott,

I have a CS1 and the module S88 is from Viessmann, because the original Märklin isn't yet availbale...Blushing Blushing Confused
Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 07 May 2013 00:47:50(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
.. S88 ... the original Märklin isn't yet availbale... Confused


Hi Rocca
Indications are that the s88 for the CS1 (6088/60880) are being phased out with the likes of LokShop showing "no longer produced"
This was the same status on Maerklins on "Shop" website in Feb, however it is back to Yellow now - possibly acknowledging there will be further demand until their new items ship (These wont help CS2/602x people though)

Edited by user 07 May 2013 04:39:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 07 May 2013 00:53:44(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Rocca,

The Shuttle features of the CS1 and CS2 are significantly different and Davids suggestion will not work for you.

This is because the CS1 "ignores" the sensor (at one end) until the sensor at the other end has been triggered. This is an advantageous feature as it covers a multitude of "events" where the sensor is re-triggered by other bouncing wheels (if using contact tracts) or is pulsed again on the return journey (reed switch).
The CS2 is not so kind to the user and while I can speculate why this may have been done I generally regarded it as a backward step on this product - but that is a different story.

If I understand your trackplan correctly it is something like this...

Shuttle Schematic

2 sensors are needed going to separate s88 inputs (shown as 4 and 8 )
- Create a shuttle route with these two IDs listed and choose your delay time
- set your locomotive BETWEEN the sensors
- (optional but recommended) press STOP on the CS1 (or otherwise isolate the power to the track) so the locomotive does not move over the sensors before you have completed the following steps
- Dial up the speed for the locomotive
- Set the locomotive for the shuttle route created
- Press GO on the CS1 (or otherwise switch power to the track)

Shuttle setup would be something like this ...
Shuttle Setup


Points:
- The Loco speed cannot be changed once it is assigned to a Shuttle route
- With Circuit tracks, you must take into account the location of the shoe on the train (diagram shoes these offset)
- please verify you sensors are functioning first (before jumping to any conclusion that it is the Shuttle function that is faulty)
- - most common "gotcha", is failing to connect the return/ground reference to the s88

Recommend:
- using a locomotive that accepts directionally specific commands

Edited by user 07 May 2013 04:35:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Rocca  
#8 Posted : 07 May 2013 08:48:52(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
dear Clapcott,

Thank you so so so much! your advices are very very usefull!! my trackplan has only a difference for the entrance in the station because there is a turnout for entering the 2 different tracks, but I'll be able to create a route with the 2 other output of the contact tracks, isn't it?
Offline bo  
#9 Posted : 09 May 2013 09:19:41(UTC)
bo

Ukraine   
Joined: 29/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Ukraine
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hi Rocco, Please specify your type of controller ?



dear Clapcott,

I have a CS1 and the module S88 is from Viessmann, because the original Märklin isn't yet availbale...Blushing Blushing Confused




Hi Rocca,

it is not in stock for a long time (old version and new M88, as you know, is not yet available) , so it's better for you to order somewhere else for dealers.
BUT Viessmann is exactly the same as Marklin, BUT its much cheaper!

Cheers!

Boris
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bo
Offline Rocca  
#10 Posted : 10 May 2013 18:20:03(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Rocca,

The Shuttle features of the CS1 and CS2 are significantly different and Davids suggestion will not work for you.

This is because the CS1 "ignores" the sensor (at one end) until the sensor at the other end has been triggered. This is an advantageous feature as it covers a multitude of "events" where the sensor is re-triggered by other bouncing wheels (if using contact tracts) or is pulsed again on the return journey (reed switch).
The CS2 is not so kind to the user and while I can speculate why this may have been done I generally regarded it as a backward step on this product - but that is a different story.

If I understand your trackplan correctly it is something like this...

Shuttle Schematic

2 sensors are needed going to separate s88 inputs (shown as 4 and 8 )
- Create a shuttle route with these two IDs listed and choose your delay time
- set your locomotive BETWEEN the sensors
- (optional but recommended) press STOP on the CS1 (or otherwise isolate the power to the track) so the locomotive does not move over the sensors before you have completed the following steps
- Dial up the speed for the locomotive
- Set the locomotive for the shuttle route created
- Press GO on the CS1 (or otherwise switch power to the track)

Shuttle setup would be something like this ...
Shuttle Setup


Points:
- The Loco speed cannot be changed once it is assigned to a Shuttle route
- With Circuit tracks, you must take into account the location of the shoe on the train (diagram shoes these offset)
- please verify you sensors are functioning first (before jumping to any conclusion that it is the Shuttle function that is faulty)
- - most common "gotcha", is failing to connect the return/ground reference to the s88

Recommend:
- using a locomotive that accepts directionally specific commands



Hello, dear Clapcott,

I ask you again for help! . See in the attached file a sketch of my reversing loop that enters through turnouts two tracks of the end station. The module S88 I use is Viesmann 16 ports, item 5217. I connected it to the CS1 and then one of the grounding socket to ground of the layout. When I start the shuttle train, the loco gets to step 2, it stops, reverses and starts, but when it comes to station 1 does not seem to recognize the bus and the train continues going. In the settings window of the shuttle train these are the specifications: Module 01 and Port 01, Module 01 and Port 02.
What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance again
Stefano


[img]UserPostedImage[/img]
Offline Rocca  
#11 Posted : 11 May 2013 18:25:01(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
well, thank to everybody! Problem solved...the wires need to be bended very hard and now it is working properly!

Best regrads
stefano
Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 12 May 2013 12:30:45(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Rocca,

It is good you have a solution.

However, your experience just goes to show and emphasis that it is important not to jump to a conclusion of "there is something wrong with the shuttle function" when the base components have been tested. Too many times I hear complaints about computers and digital when, as in our scenario, the same problem would have prevented an analogue solution from working.

That said, the availability and use of diagnostic tools like the Sensor boxes on the S88 panel are invaluable. ESU really stuffed up with the presentation - no numbering and an illogical right->left representation - but once you understand that this panel can be savior.
Peter
Offline Rocca  
#13 Posted : 12 May 2013 21:30:05(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Rocca,

It is good you have a solution.

However, your experience just goes to show and emphasis that it is important not to jump to a conclusion of "there is something wrong with the shuttle function" when the base components have been tested. Too many times I hear complaints about computers and digital when, as in our scenario, the same problem would have prevented an analogue solution from working.

That said, the availability and use of diagnostic tools like the Sensor boxes on the S88 panel are invaluable. ESU really stuffed up with the presentation - no numbering and an illogical right->left representation - but once you understand that this panel can be savior.



Hi, dear Clapcott,

Thanks again!! Anyway now I'm having another strange thing: I want to use two routes for switching the turnout entering to the end station and so I have connected the other two wires of the swtching tracks to two other ports of the S88 (properly the 4 and 6) and when the port 4 switch the route 1 is all working fine, but when the train comes to the port 6 I don't guess why but the switching track switches the route 2 just when the loco is entering the rail and not when it leaves it.
and Anyway if I try the switching with no loco on, it works properly and the routes are switching only if the switching rails are jumped in the right direction...!!
Any suggestion?
Thanks in advance

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