Hi. I am connecting a layout for PC control. I need to have a "complete" answer on exactly how to treat C track in say a 7 piece section of block for occupancy management with 3 sensors over the 7 piece block (one in the middle and one each end for stopping)

Would someone out there running PC control on C track please check or correct the following assumption please?

1. 7 pieces of C track make up a block.

2. I cut ALL the metal connection strips that bridge between the 2 outside rails underneath the C track to 'isolate' one rail as the connector rail.

3. At 'each end' of the 7 piece section of track - I put the red isolator sleeves over the connection rails' track to track connectors (this is to isolate this block from the next block for just the conector rail?)

4. I LEAVE the middle rail and other outside rail - fully connected along the track of the lay out.(not worrying here about booster isolating)

5. I connect 3 S88 connection wires to the 7 piece section of track - 1 in the middle and 1 each end as 'stopping' sensors.

6. SO - question - HOW do I isolate each of the end stopping sections from the middle section of the block? (I asusme red isolating sleeves?)

Please say either yes or no against each statement and if no - please correct for me thanks. If I have missed something entirely - please add as a further number thanks.

I am using "16 connetion" decoders with built in diodes (diode trick process)

Rgds Greg

Hi, Greg, Kevin, all,

The answer is YES: to fully separate the two outer rails, all bridges (two per piece of track) must be cut.
You need one red sleeve at the beginning, one red sleeve at the end of the contact track (both at the same outer rail).

Yesterday I experimented with an old peace of C-track. I took a cut off wheel and cut the rail, I wanted to see if I could make isolated track section similar to the way Dale Schultz makes feed back sections in K-track. The rail will stay in-place after it is cut.
Soon I will try to connect a wire to the isolated rail, this could be difficult do to the stainless steel rail and it can't be solder with normal solder. I may see if I can slip a modified rail joiner on it some how. Or I may slide a peace of thin metal under the rail between the sleepers.

It is the hard way to make a contact point, but I'm trying avoid pulling up blasted track.

Don't see why it wouldn't one section of rail is now isolated I checked with ohm meter to make sure I cut the rail deep enough. As long as I can attach a wire to the isolated rail it will work. the track is isolated like this



.-----------------.
+ + + + + + + +
.--- ---------- ---.

Darrin is talking about C track (plastic track bed, unpainted outer rails) and not M track (metal track bed, painted outer rails).

Because of the plastic track bed, you must be quick when you try to solder wires to the outer rails.

Hi all,
My mistake.Sorry.

Dr D

It worked I was able to slide the wire under the track then add a bit of solder to the other end, its held in place and is making good contact.

Note I did not cut this with my dermal tool I used my air power cut off wheel.

Dale, yes those cuts were huge, that was just a peace of old c-track to test if the rail would stay in place, so I used a tool meant for cutting 1/4" steal. Over kill yes, but it was a test and I had used up or shattered all my dremal cutoff disk.

Dremal now has a new cutoff disk and adapter system with an extra thin cutting disk that I just bought. The new Dremal cutoff wheel did a very nice job. It has a metal insert ring to attach to the shaft, this makes the disk stronger and no more chance of cutting the little screw that mounted the old cutting wheels.

I added 12 feedback sections connected to a now full s88 in a matter of a few hours, much less time than taking up track that had ballast on it, which would of taken several days to have done, and not counting all the damage that might incur.

I have yet to fill in the gaps in the rail but that is on my list of things to do. I don't see any wobble as the train runs over the gaps, there is only a slight clicking, less than rail joiners on standard HO track.

With flux on the bare end of the wire, the solder was sucked into the bare wire filling in any gap under the rail, it surprised even me at how good the contact was, and how well the wire stayed in place .

In this case Darrin is trying to find a solution that does not require him to remove track that has already been laid on the layout.. If you were starting afresh, then the best way would seem to be to cut the links under the track and isolate the ends..

This is a topic that is open to much inerpretation.

I personally feel most comfortable knowing that every piece of track (except turnouts) is used for monitoring purposes. I am currently using C-Track and right at the start I setup the track where one of the outer rails is separated on each piece of track and sections of track are connected to a S88 input. By monitoring all sections of track possible it is easier to know the state of all blocks (except for the turnouts). I am also using a Märklin three rail system.

To me this is the simplest way to reduce and hopefully eliminate collisions. So far it has proven to be very effective as the program I am using will only release a train if the blocks which are required or have to be crossed are not occupied.

As I have said before "Copper wire is cheap, repairs to locomotives are not".

Matthew

I'm not adding a solution to the question but what a dilemma trying to isolate the outside track or part there off. You better off going to the butcher shop and asked for a clean cut.
Dremel cut off wheel has always been the thinnest wheel all you had to do, be careful when cutting into metal and don't try to put too much force onto it.
You also have to make sure, the track sections you cut will not move when trains run over and over again.
Although it can be a solution for one person, it doesn't look very attractive cutting into the plastic part of the track as well.
To solder a wire onto the c - track is from my point of view not recommended, the plastic part of the track doesn't take the heat likely.
There have been instructions from Marklin how to separate the outer track by cutting off the connection underneath the track between the 2 tracks, thus leaving the 2 connector pads on either end and adding the isolating sleeves on each end of the track in less time and less messing around and in the end you wouldn't know anything was done to the track.
The metal connection (outside rails) goes underneath the slightly raised middle rail and is secured on one side with a plastic pin, on the other side you'll find the outside track connector and right next to it you can cut it with a small pair of cutting pliers. When you cut this small section you may put a drop of super glue (recommended), doing this will prevent the connector moving or twisting when connecting a wire to it. You can also bend the raised part next to the middle track downwards away from the connection pad.

So before you turn your c - track into an abstract deformed art form try this option.
If you ever decide to reverse the isolation just solder the cut off section together again

If I'm right to say, this is the reason we've joined this forum to ask questions, to compare and to seek help when needed before you apply your outdated butcher skills to a healthy looking c - track, it looks more like a scene from a WW2 movie were someone has or is trying to blow up the railway track.

the photos show the cut section on each end of the track, although the cut is made on the opposite side of the track it still leaves you with one connection pad.

John

Thanks Fredrik for the detail - I will now go and start cutting under the rails but I have two last questions please -1. which outside rail is isolated between blocks? - I assume the one you are isolating/cutting and the other one is constant all over the layout (booster use excepted)? & 2. I also assume for entry and exit contacts per block I also HAVE to cut the rails in the block so there are three sectors per block? (or is there another way such as using IR or light sensors inthose place instead of isolating the rail by cutting it ?? Tks Greg

You're welcome!

There are a few options on how to create the entry-/exit contacts you mention (personally I see them as "stopcontact" in each direction):

1 - Use the required length of fixed track pieces (as I implement this as "stopcontact" I use 1 short piece at each end), isolationg as a separate block and connection to feedback input.

2 - Like you say: Cut the rail where needed! I then fill the gap with a piece of plastic (glued in, and filed off) to give the impression of an insulation joint AND to assure the rails dont move closing the gap...

3 - Use IR-sensors or other techniques (don't know which as I'm completely satisfied with 1 & 2).

I usually have used #2 this far as I'm running K-track right now but am considering #1 if I switch to C-tracks.

Which side you use for common and block-detection doesn't really matter - you might even have to change around the layout - just be assured which side is which at all times...

You may be interested to know that what started this enquirey is the new ecosdetector from ESU allows 'either' centre rail contact 'or' outside rail contact or both (differentblocks of course) form the same detector which has 16 contacts on it. So I thought I would delve a bit deeper into centre rail use. What I had never thought about with centre rail use however was the fact that even though the loco (poss th eonly pwer drawing item in a tain)has left the block - (and stopped as they do) in th enext block - the rest of the train of course is still stuck in the first block but the software doesnt know that using centre rail contact and allows another loco in to smash into the end of the first train.

That pretty much stopped most of my interest in centre rail use at that point !!

Stephen,

could you possibly add a wiring diagram of where the blue wire you soldered to the middle rail connects?


r/Thomas