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Offline Munich 1860  
#1 Posted : 10 November 2010 02:47:30(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Hello friends of the old time Märklin products,

I have uploaded a couple of pictures and additional information on the topic of the 1950ies first Märklin stud contact tracks, the model track series 3900 (1953 until 1957) here:

Märklin Modellgleise


Have fun,
and many regards,

Hans

I edited my posting because for some reason I found that the original link did not work anymore. I have no idea what kind of mistake I had made there ....
Modellgleise

model tracks 3900

UserPostedImage

The Marklin Model tracks 3900 and 3800 came out in 1953 and were the first stud tracks (Pukos - Punktkontakte) from Märklin. By 1957, the tracks had disappeared from the catalogue, they had been replaced by the Märklin m-track which you all know, series 5100.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

There are two different kinds of power joints: one is copper, slightly reddish, the other one looks silverish and is broader.

UserPostedImage

It is pretty interesting to see that Märklin used a whole array of different labels during this relatively short period. Here you can see level crossings 3900 K with three different labels.

UserPostedImage

Another glance at the boxes and their different labels.

UserPostedImage

Now every now and then a model track can be found on Ebay. Sometimes it is hard to find out whether it is indeed a modeltrack or somebody just cleverly photographed 5200 curves, especially with the typically blurred and dark Ebay photos.

To give you all a little help, here is a picture of the main kinds of track.

To the left there is the standard curve 3900, which actually is the LARGER of the two radii. 3900 A 1/1 alongside 3900 A 1/2 and 3900 A 1/4. A 3900 A 1/1 curve has 32 sleepers which of course means that the half track has 16 and the quarter track has 8.

Next to it you can see the parallel inner curve 3800 A 1/1 and 3800 A 1/2. There was no quarter length available. A 3800 A 1/1 has 30 sleepers and the half track 3800 A 1/2 has 15.

Then there is an assortment of straight track. Full length were called 3900 D 1/1. Accordingly the smaller types are called 3900 D 1/2, 3900 D 1/4 and 3900 D 1/8. And the pretty important extra track piece 3900 D 1/7. Sleepers: full length has 32, and accordingly the others have 16, 8 and 4. The 3900 D 1/7 has 5 sleepers, and I apologize to having messed up the picture as I just found out ... It is the top one of the straight small pieces, it should indeed have 5 sleepers. I will take another photograph.

Next to the straight half track is another one of approximately the same length: this is the complementary track 3900 DE which is 3 mm longer then the normal half track. It is needed for any turn outs included in the layout. The three millimeters are gained with a slight distance between the two centre sleepers, I hope you can see it.

UserPostedImage

quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz

I can smell those boxes from here Hans! Fantastic!

Are you going to make up a layout from these items?

______________________________________________________________________________________

Cave Director, Webmaster extraordinare, Southern Hemisphere Moderator, EUEB (Ex unemployed Bum), Chief Cave TWIT



Yes I will !! It has grown into a rather good amount of track given the fact that horrendous prices are being paid on Ebay (ten pieces of track for 85 Euro the other day) and I do not need much more really. maybe a little, one always needs a little more, don't we? And one can always use normal M-track anyway alogside it.

UserPostedImage

Turn outs here. "Model switches 3900 MW", that's how they were introduced by Märklin.

A view towards several possible usages of the turn outs. By using different small pieces like the 3900 ZD, ZR or ZL parts you can reach different distances between parallel tracks.

Distances here: 50 mm, 65 mm, and 85 mm. Remember that normal M-track 5100 series has a standard distance of 77.4 mm between parallel tracks, so a much narrower roadbed can be created here (Distances measured as always between the two center stud lines, which leads to a clearance between tracks of around 1 cm in the narrowest case).

UserPostedImage

What can be seen here is the standard switch combination of 5117 with two standard 5106 pieces as everybody knows them (above). Distance from center stud to center stud is 96.4 mm and clearance is 58.0 mm.

Below you see the model track switch combination with two turn outs and, easily to discover, the complementary track pieces 3900 DE. Clearance, as told before, 10 mm, distance between the studs 50 mm.

Here is a fine example that shows that the old myth that the Modellgleise 3900 were a failure because of too much need of space back in the restricted times of the 1950ies might be just a nice invention. Indeed you need LESS space here ...

Edited by user 10 August 2014 00:44:42(UTC)  | Reason: The old link did not work anymore.

I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Munich 1860
Offline Ranjit  
#2 Posted : 10 November 2010 03:20:46(UTC)
Ranjit


Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,008
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Thank you for the very interesting historical/technical information plus the wonderful photographs. All the tracks seems to be in great shape after all these years!

Cheers,
Ranjit
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________

#Get Vaccinated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline Ian555  
#3 Posted : 10 November 2010 08:04:26(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Hans,

Märklin M track. ThumpUp

Thanks.

Ian.
Offline Ranjit  
#4 Posted : 10 November 2010 10:03:33(UTC)
Ranjit


Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,008
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
You must be very happy to see loads of 3800/3800 Märklin HO M-track, Ian!

Cheers,
Ranjit
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________

#Get Vaccinated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline Markus Schild  
#5 Posted : 11 November 2010 00:31:29(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Hans,

discussing the Marklin-model-track we should not forget RENÉ ROBIN and JAQUES VOLLON from France. They invented that track-system.

Monsier VOLLON started producing these tracks together with his partner ALBERT BRUN in their company "VB" in 1948. The company existed until ~1961. The Marklin-track was just a copy of that track which was also patented in France. (FR940765 and others.) The VB-rail is a real 3-conductor rail, also the two outer rails are insulated from each other.

VB in front, Marklin in back:

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus
Offline JKJ  
#6 Posted : 11 November 2010 19:48:41(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
Hi Hans,

Thanks for the pictures and information about the Modellgleise.
I am considering to get some 3900 and 3800 curves to use on the layout that I am planning. I use AnyRail to draw the layout, and I have asked them to add the Modellgleise to their M-track library.
They are willing to do this, but are unsure about some dimensions.
Would you be able to confirm the following:

3900 - bend radius 586 mm to the center of the track
3800 - bend radius 536 mm to the center of the track

Is the roadbed 37,5 mm wide like normal M-track?

Brg
John Kristian




Offline Markus Schild  
#7 Posted : 11 November 2010 22:23:13(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
JKJ wrote:


3900 - bend radius 586 mm to the center of the track
3800 - bend radius 536 mm to the center of the track

Is the roadbed 37,5 mm wide like normal M-track?



Hi John Kristian,

I would caculate with 585 and 535 mms. These dimensions are used in WINTRACK and are also mentioned in VB catalogues.

37.5 width seems correct for me, except for the complementary tracks ZD, ZL and ZR. These are 25mm wide at their narrow end.

Regards

Markus
Offline JKJ  
#8 Posted : 11 November 2010 23:11:50(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
Thanks Markus.BigGrin

JK
Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 11 November 2010 23:29:22(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
1955 Catalogue.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline JKJ  
#10 Posted : 12 November 2010 13:19:11(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
Thanks Steven,

I had already downloaded the 1955 catalogue. My German is a bit limited, but as far as I understand, the catalogue gives the outside diameter of the track. The catalogue does not mention the width of the trackbed, but assuming it is 37,5 like normal M-track, (1210-37.5)/2 gives a radius of 586.25 mm for 3900 and 50 mm less for 3800. This is 1 mm more than what was advised by Markus Schild. 1 mm does not make much difference,so I will use the numbers provided by Markus for now.

Brg
John Kristian
Offline Munich 1860  
#11 Posted : 12 November 2010 17:43:50(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
To clarify things here:

" ... the radius to the centre of the track is 58.5 cm (23 in.). The diameter over the outside of the track bed is then 121 cm (47 5/8 in.). The radius of the smaller circle, on the other hand, made up of type 3800 sections, also to the centre of the track, is 53.5 cm. (21 1/8 in.), so that the overall diameter is 111 cm (43 3/4 in.)."

Quote from the Märklin model track brochure YN 0753 k 3900 AA-100/3

Many regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline JKJ  
#12 Posted : 13 November 2010 00:44:52(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
Thanks Hans. I guess that settles it.

I got he following question from AnyRail:
"It's no problem to add them. The only questions that remains is the length of part 3900K, the crossing.

Is the indicated 17.7cm the length of the (diagonal) track, or the length of the part itself?"

Is anyone able to answer that?

Brg
John Kristian

Offline Markus Schild  
#13 Posted : 13 November 2010 02:13:25(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
JKJ wrote:


Is the indicated 17.7cm the length of the (diagonal) track, or the length of the part itself?"



Hi John Kristian,

the length of the track of 3900K is 175mm.

Regards

Markus
Offline Munich 1860  
#14 Posted : 13 November 2010 02:13:55(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Yes I am able to answer this as I have just done some measurements. The 17.7 cm length of the 3900 K trackpiece is the length of each of the four individual rails and therefore of the two tracks which cross each other.
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline Munich 1860  
#15 Posted : 13 November 2010 02:15:25(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Markus Schild wrote:
JKJ wrote:


Is the indicated 17.7cm the length of the (diagonal) track, or the length of the part itself?"



Hi John Kristian,

the length of the track of 3900K is 175mm.

Regards

Markus
Hi Markus,

are you sure ?? I just measured mine with 17.7 cm ??? Maybe my eyesight, or the time of the day ???
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline Markus Schild  
#16 Posted : 13 November 2010 10:53:54(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Hans,

Yesterday I measured a number of crossings. They weren't equal. Then I tried calculating.
The two lower tracks should be in the same length:

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus
Offline JKJ  
#17 Posted : 13 November 2010 18:30:54(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
Hans and Markus,

Thanks a lot.

Brg
John Kristian
Offline JKJ  
#18 Posted : 29 November 2010 12:20:29(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
For those who are using Anyrail, they have now included a Modellgleise library in their latest version (4.9)

Brg
JKJ
Offline Munich 1860  
#19 Posted : 18 January 2011 17:54:28(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Hello dear fellow MRR sufferers,

I have a most unusual request. And as it refers to the Model tracks by Märklin, I will post it here. Could somebody with a decent knowledge of the Dutch language tell me about the following quote from a Dutch Märklin forum ??

I do not need a proper translation, just want to know whether there is anything substantial in the article.

Would be greatly appreciated !!!

Many regards,

Hans

"Hallo beste mensen,

Ik wil met deze bijdrage een misverstand uit de wereld helpen over het hoe en waarom van de korte produktietijd van deze geweldige Märklin 3900 serie.

Ik heb uit betrouwbare bron vernomen dat er het volgende afspeelde in de jaren 50 van de vorige eeuw:
Ik schreef eerder dat de produktiekosten hoog waren en dat waren ze ook, maar dat was NIET de werkelijke reden dat Märklin eindigde met de produktie van de 3900 rails.

Märklin wilde een nieuwe weg inslaan met het aanbieden van grote bochten.
Intussen was er al een andere fabrikant actief op de markt met grote bochten en dat was het Franse VB een associatie van Vollon en Brun.
De bochten van VB zagen er gelikt uit en ze waren uitgevoerd met een middenrail en voorzien van wisselstroom.
Een voorbeeld van deze wissel is thans te zien op:

Klikkerdeklik

Märklin was hiervan op de hoogte en zag het voorbeeld van VB en startte ook de produktie op van de nieuwe märklin 3800 en 3900, zoals ze later genoemd zouden worden. Alleen de nieuwe geproduceerde Märklin 3800/3900 blijkt/bleek bijna indentiek aan die van de rails van het Franse VB.
Ik benadruk bijna, omdat alleen de middenrail werd vervangen door ingelegde bielzen met puntcontacten.
Het Franse VB nam kennis van de produktie van Märklinrails en kwam in actie, omdat er een patent (een octrooi) gekoppeld was aan de VB-rails.
Dus dat betekende dat Märklin octrooirecht aan VB diende te betalen, hetgeen Märklin niet zonder slag of stoot betaalde. Het kwam tot meerdere processen en uiteindelijk stopte Märklin met de verdere produktie van de Märklin 3800/3900 rails. Of er uiteindelijk octrooi aan VB is betaald is mij niet bekend, maar de produktie van de 3800/3900 rails werd gestaakt!!"
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline perz  
#20 Posted : 18 January 2011 18:22:25(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Originally Posted by: Munich 1860 Go to Quoted Post
Hello dear fellow MRR sufferers,

I have a most unusual request. And as it refers to the Model tracks by Märklin, I will post it here. Could somebody with a decent knowledge of the Dutch language tell me about the following quote from a Dutch Märklin forum ??

I do not need a proper translation, just want to know whether there is anything substantial in the article.

Would be greatly appreciated !!!

Many regards,

Hans

"Hallo beste mensen,

Ik wil met deze bijdrage een misverstand uit de wereld helpen over het hoe en waarom van de korte produktietijd van deze geweldige Märklin 3900 serie.

Ik heb uit betrouwbare bron vernomen dat er het volgende afspeelde in de jaren 50 van de vorige eeuw:
Ik schreef eerder dat de produktiekosten hoog waren en dat waren ze ook, maar dat was NIET de werkelijke reden dat Märklin eindigde met de produktie van de 3900 rails.

Märklin wilde een nieuwe weg inslaan met het aanbieden van grote bochten.
Intussen was er al een andere fabrikant actief op de markt met grote bochten en dat was het Franse VB een associatie van Vollon en Brun.
De bochten van VB zagen er gelikt uit en ze waren uitgevoerd met een middenrail en voorzien van wisselstroom.
Een voorbeeld van deze wissel is thans te zien op:

Klikkerdeklik

Märklin was hiervan op de hoogte en zag het voorbeeld van VB en startte ook de produktie op van de nieuwe märklin 3800 en 3900, zoals ze later genoemd zouden worden. Alleen de nieuwe geproduceerde Märklin 3800/3900 blijkt/bleek bijna indentiek aan die van de rails van het Franse VB.
Ik benadruk bijna, omdat alleen de middenrail werd vervangen door ingelegde bielzen met puntcontacten.
Het Franse VB nam kennis van de produktie van Märklinrails en kwam in actie, omdat er een patent (een octrooi) gekoppeld was aan de VB-rails.
Dus dat betekende dat Märklin octrooirecht aan VB diende te betalen, hetgeen Märklin niet zonder slag of stoot betaalde. Het kwam tot meerdere processen en uiteindelijk stopte Märklin met de verdere produktie van de Märklin 3800/3900 rails. Of er uiteindelijk octrooi aan VB is betaald is mij niet bekend, maar de produktie van de 3800/3900 rails werd gestaakt!!"


I'm not so fluid in Dutch, but the essence seems to be that the 3800/3900 series production was stopped due to a patent/design patent issue with the company Franse VB who made a similar track system.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by perz
Offline Western Pacific  
#21 Posted : 18 January 2011 18:48:46(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: Munich 1860 Go to Quoted Post
Hello dear fellow MRR sufferers,

I have a most unusual request. And as it refers to the Model tracks by Märklin, I will post it here. Could somebody with a decent knowledge of the Dutch language tell me about the following quote from a Dutch Märklin forum ??

I do not need a proper translation, just want to know whether there is anything substantial in the article.

Would be greatly appreciated !!!

Many regards,

Hans

"Hallo beste mensen,

Ik wil met deze bijdrage een misverstand uit de wereld helpen over het hoe en waarom van de korte produktietijd van deze geweldige Märklin 3900 serie.

Ik heb uit betrouwbare bron vernomen dat er het volgende afspeelde in de jaren 50 van de vorige eeuw:
Ik schreef eerder dat de produktiekosten hoog waren en dat waren ze ook, maar dat was NIET de werkelijke reden dat Märklin eindigde met de produktie van de 3900 rails.

Märklin wilde een nieuwe weg inslaan met het aanbieden van grote bochten.
Intussen was er al een andere fabrikant actief op de markt met grote bochten en dat was het Franse VB een associatie van Vollon en Brun.
De bochten van VB zagen er gelikt uit en ze waren uitgevoerd met een middenrail en voorzien van wisselstroom.
Een voorbeeld van deze wissel is thans te zien op:

Klikkerdeklik

Märklin was hiervan op de hoogte en zag het voorbeeld van VB en startte ook de produktie op van de nieuwe märklin 3800 en 3900, zoals ze later genoemd zouden worden. Alleen de nieuwe geproduceerde Märklin 3800/3900 blijkt/bleek bijna indentiek aan die van de rails van het Franse VB.
Ik benadruk bijna, omdat alleen de middenrail werd vervangen door ingelegde bielzen met puntcontacten.
Het Franse VB nam kennis van de produktie van Märklinrails en kwam in actie, omdat er een patent (een octrooi) gekoppeld was aan de VB-rails.
Dus dat betekende dat Märklin octrooirecht aan VB diende te betalen, hetgeen Märklin niet zonder slag of stoot betaalde. Het kwam tot meerdere processen en uiteindelijk stopte Märklin met de verdere produktie van de Märklin 3800/3900 rails. Of er uiteindelijk octrooi aan VB is betaald is mij niet bekend, maar de produktie van de 3800/3900 rails werd gestaakt!!"



With Google translate and some improvements of my own:

"Hi folks,

With this contribution I would like to help to sort out a misunderstanding about why and how it came to such a short production time of the great Märklin 3900 series.

I have this from a reliable source that this is what happened in the 50ies of the last century:
I wrote earlier that production costs were high and that they were too, but that was NOT the real reason why Märklin ended with the production of the 3900 track.

Märklin wanted a new direction by offering big turns.
Meanwhile there is another manufacturer active in the market with great curves and that was a French association of VB Vollon and Brun.
The curves of VB looked slick and were performed with a mid rail and with AC.
An example of this change is now seen at:

Klikkerdeklik

Märklin was aware of and saw the example of VB and also started production on the new Märklin 3800 and 3900, as they would be called later. Only the new 3800/3900 Märklin were almost identical to the rails of the French VB.
I stress almost, because only the central railway sleepers were replaced by the inlay with point contacts.
The French VB learned about the production of Märklin Rails and took action, because a patent was linked to the VB track.
So that meant that Märklin had to pay patent license fee to VB, which Märklin would not pay without a fight. It came to several processes and that led to Märklin eventually stopping further production of Märklin 3800/3900 rails. If Märklin finally paid license fees to VB I do not know, but the production of the 3800/3900 track was stopped!"


I hope this helps.

(For me, not a native Dutch speaker, but having studied it at Stockholm University, I had no problem understanding the original text myself and would easily have written a Swedish translation, but an English version would have been more difficult to get to from there and Google helped in doing so, but it really needed improving).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Western Pacific
Offline GG1 Fan  
#22 Posted : 19 January 2011 09:07:35(UTC)
GG1 Fan


Joined: 30/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Stamford, CT USA
Did you know:
With that older track, that is tripple insulated with insulation on each of the track rail, and insulation on the center 'stud' rail, one can clip off the shiny metal joiner underneath the track and convert this AC track into DC? If you want me to go into details, I can post up some pictures.

Why would anyone want to do this to exquisit Marklin Track? I don't know, but it can be done if you have this old track.
Offline husson73  
#23 Posted : 19 January 2011 11:57:39(UTC)
husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
I think the cost of the 3800 3900 was the raison why Marklin stopped the production with also the fact Marklin did't sold many cause with small flat the room needs was to big.
If you compare the price of 3800 3900 with the new 5100 5200 which came around 1956 (under other numbers) you will see that 3800 3900 track cost the double price of the new one.
When Marklin launched the 5100 5200, it would be easy, without troubles with the VB Pattern, to launch such track also with the large dimension of 3800 3900 track: Marklin didn't cause there were not a real market for these tracksCool
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
Offline Munich 1860  
#24 Posted : 02 February 2011 23:33:47(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Hello,

I would like to say a big 'thank you' to the two guys from Sweden who seem to be fluid and eager speakers of the Dutch language to translate the Dutch gentleman's posting in his forum.

So thank you Per and, yes thank you also to Per. Do you have some other first names in Sweden ?? LOL

By the way I do not agree with the original poster's view that Märklin more or less committed a copyright or patent infringement. If you have a look at VB track pieces and then at Modellgleis pieces one can immediately see the similarities. If Märklin had stolen the design, a court case wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes ....

Many regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline jeehring  
#25 Posted : 26 May 2011 09:26:25(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
....there is another story about "traction tires" for MRR which Marklin was very proud to announce themselves to be the unique manufacturer to install that particular feature on their models at the end of the fifties...
Just after WWII around 1948, there were a small French manufacturer launching his own brand ... he was known as a manufacturer of some kind of Parisian subway train models rolling on a 3 rails track system with DC current....Presently I don't have his name on mind....Probably Markus Shield , Husson, or any sensible collector could help me....( "P" could be the first letter of the brand name which a part was also his family name...)
Some MRR historians present him to have been the first to fit his motorized models with traction tires round about 1950 but he never planned to get any patent ....& Marklin came much later....& 2 rails manufacturers came after Marklin...
Offline husson73  
#26 Posted : 27 May 2011 18:49:34(UTC)
husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
PMP it was
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
Offline hennabm  
#27 Posted : 01 June 2011 18:15:24(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
If I'm reading this right then M* got themselves into a copyright battle with VB and backed out of large radii curves for the M track, never to issue them again and thus leaving us with the 5200 as the "large" curve.

Was this why they went on to develop K track so they could once again issue large radii curves (as well as satisfying the more discerning model railroader).
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
Offline hennabm  
#28 Posted : 17 June 2011 18:13:09(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
Having obtained some 3900 curves I can now see what a work of art they are.Love

I can see why they were so expensive compared with the "normal" track.

I have not got enough for a full circle but am working on it Drool

Even so I am still puzzled why M* didn't give a larger radii than the 5200 in standard M trackConfused
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
Offline Ian555  
#29 Posted : 17 June 2011 19:31:12(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Mike,

Good to hear you've got some of the 3900 track.

Like you say, it is very well made, and you'll need 16 sections for a full circle.

Ian.

Offline hennabm  
#30 Posted : 17 June 2011 19:34:59(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
Ian

I have so far 8 full 3900s and 10 half sections giving me 13 of 16 full sections that I need.

I did have a bid in on some UK based 3900s earlier this week but they got to silly money. OhMyGod

There were 20 half sections and they went well beyond my thoughts. £104 Scared Scared

Once I have these then I will progress with the baseboard.ThumpUp
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
Offline Ian555  
#31 Posted : 17 June 2011 19:44:19(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Mike,

I saw the half sections up for sale but didn't see the end price.

Like we said around £6 to £8 for each section as long as they are in good condition.

What size of baseboard are you using.

Ian.



Offline steventrain  
#32 Posted : 17 June 2011 20:45:39(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I collection pick up about 200 of 3800+3900 included turnouts - all in green boxed last week from Ben.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline hennabm  
#33 Posted : 17 June 2011 21:09:40(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
Ian
Due to the size of where I can store the boards, they will be 6 x 4 each with a 2' extension giving me the 8 x 4 each. The two will then join giving the 16 x 4. BigGrin

My plan is to have an outer circuit of the 3900s and then build from there. I am also thinking of a bridge across the back straight.

Steven - Ben who? Has he got 3 more 3900 curves or can you spare a poor public sector worker 3 at a reasonable priceBlushing
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
Offline jr_rail  
#34 Posted : 27 October 2013 11:01:27(UTC)
jr_rail


Joined: 01/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Germany

A Maerklin Modellgleise (Modeltrack) track parameter file for the free planning software XTrkCAD has been added to the updated version of the Maerklin M-track parameter file. The links for downloading the software from sourceforge.net and the updated parameter files you find here:
http://sourceforge.net/p/xtrkcad-fork/feature-requests/30/#fcc5

The Geometry is set as follows:
Modellgleis normal radius 585 mm
Modellgleis parallel radius 535 mm
Roadbed width of 40 mm (i.e. 20 mm to each side from the track center, that is about 1 mm more to each side compared to M-tracks)
Crossing 3900 K individual track length of 177 mm

This was my best conclusion for the geometry in accordance with the catalogue and any additional information available.

The only contradiction remains with the geometry scetch included by Markus in this topic further down. I assume that the indication of 3900ZD (with actually 58 mm according to the catalogue) is not correct, but that instead for the displayed geometry the piece 3900D1/4 (length of 56 mm) shall be used combined with 3900K (length of 177 mm). Then the 3900ZD is intended to make up for the 56mm on a diagonal steight section: 55.5=58.0*COS(16,875°)

Can someone with physical tracks at hand confirm or correct this assumption?

Cheers Jo


Originally Posted by: JKJ Go to Quoted Post
Hi Hans,

Thanks for the pictures and information about the Modellgleise.
I am considering to get some 3900 and 3800 curves to use on the layout that I am planning. I use AnyRail to draw the layout, and I have asked them to add the Modellgleise to their M-track library.
They are willing to do this, but are unsure about some dimensions.
Would you be able to confirm the following:

3900 - bend radius 586 mm to the center of the track
3800 - bend radius 536 mm to the center of the track

Is the roadbed 37,5 mm wide like normal M-track?

Brg
John Kristian






Offline Markus Schild  
#35 Posted : 28 October 2013 12:45:38(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: jr_rail Go to Quoted Post



The only contradiction remains with the geometry scetch included by Markus in this topic further down. I assume that the indication of 3900ZD (with actually 58 mm according to the catalogue) is not correct, but that instead for the displayed geometry the piece 3900D1/4 (length of 56 mm) shall be used combined with 3900K (length of 177 mm). Then the 3900ZD is intended to make up for the 56mm on a diagonal steight section: 55.5=58.0*COS(16,875°)





Hi Jo,

The 3900D1/4 can't be attached to the crossing. The next rail at a crossing must be a "Z"-Rail, another crossing or a switch. The regular pieces are to wide. VB shows the same combination at their catalogue. It shows also the necessity of the narrow rails:
UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus

Edited by user 28 October 2013 22:01:37(UTC)  | Reason: "another crossing" added

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Offline jr_rail  
#36 Posted : 03 November 2013 19:15:27(UTC)
jr_rail


Joined: 01/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Germany
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jr_rail Go to Quoted Post


The only contradiction remains with the geometry scetch included by Markus in this topic further down. I assume that the indication of 3900ZD (with actually 58 mm according to the catalogue) is not correct, but that instead for the displayed geometry the piece 3900D1/4 (length of 56 mm) shall be used combined with 3900K (length of 177 mm). Then the 3900ZD is intended to make up for the 56mm on a diagonal steight section: 55.5=58.0*COS(16,875°)



Hi Jo,

The 3900D1/4 can't be attached to the crossing. The next rail at a crossing must be a "Z"-Rail, another crossing or a switch. The regular pieces are to wide. VB shows the same combination at their catalogue. It shows also the necessity of the narrow rails:

Regards

Markus


Hi Markus, thanks for this information and your valuable geometry displays. Now I have found the solution:

Actually, the German Maerklin Cataloge of 1955 is incorrect!!! on the length of 3900ZD. Its length is 56 mm! (not 58 mm a as printed in the catalogue)
This I could verify with the English Maerklin Catalogue, which specifies the lenght with 2 3/16 inch (=55.56 mm). The same length is specified for 3900D1/4. You find the English Maerklin Catalogue copie in this forum@: http://marklincave.dyndn...m/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=638

According to this finding, I updated the length of the sectional track piece 3900ZD to 56 mm in the XTrkCAD parameter file and the corresponding track geometry display@: http://groups.yahoo.com/...les/Maerklin_HO_M_tracks
files: mrklnholde_v1_4.xtp
and mrklnhomde_v1_geometry.png


How good that this forum collects the essential information for this kind of assessment.

Cheers Jo
jr_rail attached the following image(s):
mrklnhomde_v1_geometry.png
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Offline Markus Schild  
#37 Posted : 05 November 2013 12:30:35(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: jr_rail Go to Quoted Post


Actually, the German Maerklin Cataloge of 1955 is incorrect!!! on the length of 3900ZD. Its length is 56 mm! (not 58 mm a as printed in the catalogue)


Hi Jo,

Now I measured some examples. I think they should be 56.5 mm (VB says 57mm). I checked 12 pieces: The shortest is 56.1 mm, the longest 56.85 mm, but the most are among 56.4mm and 56.6 mm.
For calculating the geometry I would choose 57mm (as I did on the last page), because you always have a very small gap between the rails and the profiles aren't mounted precisely enough. Two ZD stuck together aren't shorter than 114mm.

Regards

Markus
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Offline kweekalot  
#38 Posted : 16 November 2013 22:36:22(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Wooooow, I was interested in the 3900 plastic sleeper track but I didn't know that the 3900 series is so expensive.
2 points sold yesterday in an ebay auction for € 254,68 and 10 straights for € 109,89. Scared

Marco

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
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Offline Janne75  
#39 Posted : 26 November 2013 11:35:53(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

I bought some Märklin stuff from Finland. The seller is a Märklin collector and he only collects locomotives and rolling stock. I bought a mint boxed 3095.1 (from 1968) with instructions for me and around 60 pieces of M-track for my sons. There was two of these 3900 1/1 curved tracks, one 3800 1/1 curved track and two 3900 1/1 straight tracks. It seems like they are quite rare and expensive then. There were also 3601 curved tracks and 3601 straight tracks without the solid centre rail. Where these 3601 the tracks before numbering changed to 5100 and 5106? There was 12 turnouts also. Tracks are mostly in very good condition ThumpUp . Not bad for 53 euro (for all the tracks). I think I will keep these 3601, 3800 and 3900 tracks myself and give the other M-tracks to my sons.

PS. 3800 and 3900 tracks looks so beautifully designed vs. normal M-tracks and the larger radius is great looking if someone has the full circle of them.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Ian555  
#40 Posted : 26 November 2013 14:32:11(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Janne,

I've used the 3900 tracks for the outer circle on my M track lower level layout.

You can see the 5200's used as the inner curve.

Ian.


3900 track.


3900 track.

....
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Offline Janne75  
#41 Posted : 26 November 2013 17:48:15(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi Ian,

I had read previously many months ago from your layouts and now I understand why you like these 3900 tracks. If I would use M-track for my layout these would be my choice also. I have however decided to use plastic Wink C-track as my layout is digital. I like also 3900 smoothness of the roadbed and how rails are connected to them. I can understand why they are expensive, but I would not ever pay the prices than some people pay to get them.

Good choice from you Ian ThumpUp .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Ian555  
#42 Posted : 26 November 2013 18:13:11(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Janne,

Thanks, but please remember digital Loco's run really well on M track (no need to reply Ray..Smile ) and they like those big curves.

All the best.

Ian.




....
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Offline Janne75  
#43 Posted : 26 November 2013 22:17:56(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Thanks Ian,

Nice video. Great looking trains on 3900 track. Yes, it is possible to run digital locos on M-tracks, but for the digital signals the C-track is superb. Also if M-tracks are not in very good condition and layout built well locos and rolling stocks wheels will wear more than on very smooth C-tracks.

There is real railway sounds on M-track though ThumpUp . Sometimes it feels with C-tracks that there is too little sound from rails, but tinplate cars have some "railsound" at least.

I built today after long time a temporary layout from M-track to our living room for my sons. Both electric turnouts works and their lights lit RollEyes . Other 10 mechanical turnouts work also. We was running 9 tinplate cars behind DA 800, BR 18.4 (3091) and S 3/6 (3092). This was a M-track day controlled by Märklin Super transformer ThumpUp .

PS. My back thanks for that I built my C-track layout to 105 cm height from the floor. Age won't come alone... Smile

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Yumgui  
#44 Posted : 19 January 2014 21:56:13(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,660
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jr_rail Go to Quoted Post
According to this finding, I updated the length of the sectional track piece 3900ZD to 56 mm in the XTrkCAD parameter file and the corresponding track geometry display@: http://groups.yahoo.com/...les/Maerklin_HO_M_tracks
files: mrklnholde_v1_4.xtp
and mrklnhomde_v1_geometry.png

Hi Jo,

Your links to Yahoo seem broken ... can you update them please ?

Looking for that XTrkCAD 3900 database file ... ^^

Plz lemme know, thanks,

Yum ThumpUp

If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all
My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A
Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline jetavdk  
#45 Posted : 01 February 2014 03:08:17(UTC)
jetavdk

United States   
Joined: 02/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Friday Harbor, WA
Has anyone else integrated the 3900 and 3800 curves into their M-track layout other than Ian? I just picked some up on e-bay for a layout that I'm planning. In the style of the great Bernd Schmid I'm planning to cover my 5100 and 5200 curved sections under scenery.

I remember seeing these curves in the 80's when I was still a child on a gorgeous layout that a friend of my dad had in his garage. Looking back, it's a pity Marklin didn't re-introduce these sizes when the 2241/51 K-track came out as there was obviously a market for those sizes again.

Ted
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Offline Ian555  
#46 Posted : 01 February 2014 07:14:54(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Ted,

Mike (hennabm ) also uses them on his layout.

Ian.

Offline jetavdk  
#47 Posted : 01 February 2014 07:30:55(UTC)
jetavdk

United States   
Joined: 02/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Friday Harbor, WA
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ted,

Mike (hennabm ) also uses them on his layout.

Ian.



Hi Ian,

Thanks for the tip, I just got through all 28 pages of your empire, I don't know what to say. Your collection and layouts are beyond my wildest dreams.

Regards,

Ted
Offline Ian555  
#48 Posted : 01 February 2014 11:20:09(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Ted,

Thanks, but I'm only playing catch up with all the other wonderful collections and layouts we have on our Marklin forum.

All the best.

Ian.

Offline jr_rail  
#49 Posted : 14 February 2014 21:55:45(UTC)
jr_rail


Joined: 01/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Germany
Originally Posted by: jr_rail Go to Quoted Post
updated the length of the sectional track piece 3900ZD to 56 mm in the XTrkCAD parameter file: http://groups.yahoo.com/...les/Maerklin_HO_M_tracks
files: mrklnholde_v1_4.xtp
and mrklnhomde_v1_geometry.png

Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post

links to Yahoo seem broken ... can you update them please ?
Looking for that XTrkCAD 3900 database file ... ^^


Dear all,

for using the above link you need to sign into the XTrkCad yahoo group for accessing the files section. For making it easier I attach the file here.

In addition I like to point to a copy of the German Maerklin catalogue of 1956 which states the 3900ZD as 56 mm long (a correction compared to the 1955 catalogue and as in the English catalogue): http://www.marios-modell...vollbild/Vollbild37.html

In the attached XTrkCad parameter file, the piece 3900ZD is thus still set as 56 mm (=2.204724 * 1/10 inch). If you prefer 57 mm for your geometry, it can easily be adjusted with a text editor by replacing all instances of the value 2.204724 by 2.244094 (=57 mm) for the TURNOUT HO " Maerklin Modellgleis 56mm 3900ZD".

I hope that helps for your Modellgleis geometries and track planning.

Best regards, Jo
File Attachment(s):
mrklnholde_v1_4.zip (6kb) downloaded 58 time(s).
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Offline Munich 1860  
#50 Posted : 22 March 2014 22:42:50(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Hello,

today I set up a carpet layout with model tracks 3800 and 3900 exclusively. I want to show you a couple of pictures as not many complete layouts are shown on the web. I hope you enjoy the pictures, which are not too good, as much as I enjoyed playing and checking mistakes and improving the layout.

Locos run well, trains will be brought into action next week.

Many regards,

Hans


Modellgleise 1

Modellgleise 2

Modellgleise 3

Modellgleis 4

Modellgleis 5

model tracks 6

3900 modeltrack 7

Edited by user 10 August 2014 00:50:44(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling ....

I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
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