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Offline dennisb  
#1 Posted : 04 January 2016 23:11:31(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Hi!

I bought the Märklin wagon set 43570 with the German bi-leveled passenger cars some weeks ago but did try it out for the first time yesterday. The wagons where fine and the light really nice. But. The puck up shoe were quite noisy. It's the sound that feels like the pick up shoe is hitting every one of the power nails it drives over. Do you know what I mean? Old locos can also have it from time to time. It's a repetitive sound that increases with the speed of the train. It doesn't sound like the pick up shoes is gliding on top of the power but rather hit it. Strange to explain... Sorry!

At almost the same time I also found a new copy of the 46900 set with "schlusslichtwagen' set. The same problem there as well.

Do you have the same experience? Any recommendations on what to do?

Thanks!
Dennis
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 04 January 2016 23:20:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Dennis!
Originally Posted by: dennisb Go to Quoted Post
Any recommendations on what to do?
Sometimes the slider is not straight or the angle at the beginning and end is wrong.
Sometimes it helps to reduce the pressure of the springs.

Bending the slider straight helped with a few of my coaches.
On one coach I installed a Roco slider as I couldn't get the Märklin slider to the noise level I wanted.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Dimi194  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2016 00:33:23(UTC)
Dimi194

Australia   
Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by: dennisb Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

I bought the Märklin wagon set 43570 with the German bi-leveled passenger cars some weeks ago but did try it out for the first time yesterday. The wagons where fine and the light really nice. But. The puck up shoe were quite noisy. It's the sound that feels like the pick up shoe is hitting every one of the power nails it drives over. Do you know what I mean? Old locos can also have it from time to time. It's a repetitive sound that increases with the speed of the train. It doesn't sound like the pick up shoes is gliding on top of the power but rather hit it. Strange to explain... Sorry!

At almost the same time I also found a new copy of the 46900 set with "schlusslichtwagen' set. The same problem there as well.

Do you have the same experience? Any recommendations on what to do?

Thanks!
Dennis


These cars have lights that switch on with direction of travel. Therefore they have both a slider and the contacts on the other bogie that provides the return current.
I have 3 sets of cars like this and they are all very loud; I assumed it was just how the mechanism was which allowed the lights to switch on/off automatically.
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person!
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 05 January 2016 08:57:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dimi194 Go to Quoted Post
I have 3 sets of cars like this and they are all very loud; I assumed it was just how the mechanism was which allowed the lights to switch on/off automatically.
The direction switch is attached to the axle. The axle should be round and in the best case there are no grates and the sound level should be very low.

After running the coaches for a while you can check the slider for traces of wear. Bend sliders will have area that are like new.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dennisb  
#5 Posted : 05 January 2016 10:36:34(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Thanks guys, appreciate the answers!

I will check the slider when I get home tonight. Just got a bad feeling when two independent brand new wagons show the same behavior.

D.
Offline dennisb  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2016 11:21:14(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
I checked the pick up shoe yesterday evening. I let the train run for 30-40 minutes. My layout is more or less equally turning righ and left so it should not be an issue of curves only going in one direction.

The sound is there all the time. I took the below images with my phone after the run. To me it looks very weird. To me it looks like that the first half of the pick up shoe has only been used in the middle (more or less) but the rear end seems tp be used in the middle and to the right. Like the pick up shoe would be crocked. Can you see it on the images?

IMG_2380.JPGIMG_2381.JPG

I can't visually see it on the pick up shoe itself that it would be crocked. What do you think? Should I have it replaced?

D.
Offline Unholz  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2016 12:48:15(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
If you place the coach on a flat/level surface which you can look at horizontally and then place a light source on the other side of the coach, you will immediately be able to check whether and where the slider is bent. If necessary, you can then gently bend it in a manner that the light doesn't shine through anywhere.

However, there is also the possibility (judging by the direction of the traces on your slider) that the shoe is not exactly parallel to the rails and the string of "power nails", as you call them. In this case you should try to fix/turn the whole slider assembly in a manner that it runs perfectly straight. This might not be easily possible when the slider is not simply screwed into a hole.

In any case, the word "gentle" applies to all slider corrections, but in most cases the things are finally rather quiet. Smile
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 06 January 2016 14:10:02(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
If you place the coach on a flat/level surface which you can look at horizontally and then place a light source on the other side of the coach, you will immediately be able to check whether and where the slider is bent. If necessary, you can then gently bend it in a manner that the light doesn't shine through anywhere.

However, there is also the possibility (judging by the direction of the traces on your slider) that the shoe is not exactly parallel to the rails and the string of "power nails", as you call them. In this case you should try to fix/turn the whole slider assembly in a manner that it runs perfectly straight. This might not be easily possible when the slider is not simply screwed into a hole.

In any case, the word "gentle" applies to all slider corrections, but in most cases the things are finally rather quiet. Smile


Certainly in the second photo the shoe doesn't look straight to me at the left hand end (nearest the end of the loco). The gap between the shoe and the wheel is greater on the top side (as viewed in the photo) than the bottom side. I don't know how much movement there is as it looks like it is a clamp on one, but it could be that the flexible shim is slightly twisted between the mounting plate and the shoe.

It is possible to have the show catch when going over a point and twist the shoe slightly without you realising it.

Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 06 January 2016 17:21:46(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I concur with Stefan's assessment that the slider is slightly out of position. Unfortunately the new "clip-in" sliders do not permit as much adjustment as the old screw mounted ones. It should be possible to manually adjust the position, but it should be within normal operating tolerance as is. The problem with the clicking has something to do with the design of the centre rail studs on C Track as well as the resonance of the particular locomotive or coach involved. I have seen many coaches that are a little noisy on C-Track operate silently on K-Track, where the studs are wider and have a different profile.
You might obtain better results if you replace the slider, but there are no guarantees. I would start with a little gentle manipulation to see if you can improve on the alignment and hopefully this will reduce the sound that you are hearing.

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 06 January 2016 21:14:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dennisb Go to Quoted Post
Should I have it replaced?
Those sliders with a screw hole (like that of 43750) have a zig-zag-zag-zig around the screw hole and in my experience most of them are not straight when they come and there is no guarantee the replacement will be quieter.

I do what Stefan suggested: check the slider with a flat edge (I use the edge of a Faller platform while Stefan uses a flat surface) against a lamp to see where corrections are needed. Gently try to bend it straight.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline dennisb  
#11 Posted : 06 January 2016 22:51:05(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Thanks a lot! I'll tr the recommendation tomorrow evening. I opened up another wagon from the 46900 kit today just to try if it was the same aswith the first one and yes. Same issue there and the wagon has never been out of the box (that I'm aware of this is). Have to admit that I really have an issue with new things not working as they should. I have two never sets of of cars with light inside from factory, no problem. I have two sets of wagons that I've had the light installed in and no problem. And I have a few of the old tin plate cars with end lights and internal lights, no problem. So I know it can be done properly and think it's quite strange that directly out of the box three cars are noisy. I bought the 46900 set here in Sweden so I will also contact the reseller to ask for advice but the 43570 I bought in Germany some months back so there I guess I just have to fix it myself.

I really appreciate your help and advice!

D.
Offline dennisb  
#12 Posted : 07 January 2016 20:07:44(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
I tried the trick with the light but no real success. The only place where it was obviious leaks are in the middle where the shoe rises. However I tried to adjust it a bit sideways but no success. I will try to send it to a company for service instead. Computers are so much easier to deal with :)

D.
Offline baggio  
#13 Posted : 10 January 2016 07:42:19(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hi, Dennis:

I got your same set for Christmas, you may have seen the YouTube video I made, and love it, BUT just like you I found that the slider is noisy and feels like it is hitting each centre stud. Also, the wheels themselves are not very smooth when they run; the other two wagons are better.

Personally, I will live with it and would not ship the wagons out for repair. Enjoy it, instead, it is a gem, especially if you have the old Italian locomotore FS424 pull the wagons.ThumpUp BigGrin

The noise is not very high, albeit I would prefer it not be there at all. Perfection is not of this world and with Marklin (and other manufacturers, both of model trains and other goods) I have also learned that if I expect perfection, even from a new product, I am in for a lot of disappointment.

Having said that, I will ask Mike at the local Marklin store where I bought the set, what he thinks and will report. It will take a while, however.

Silvano a.ka. the model train philosopher. Scared

Offline dennisb  
#14 Posted : 10 January 2016 11:55:49(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Dennis:

I got your same set for Christmas, you may have seen the YouTube video I made, and love it, BUT just like you I found that the slider is noisy and feels like it is hitting each centre stud. Also, the wheels themselves are not very smooth when they run; the other two wagons are better.



Thanks! I have seen some YouTube movies but not sure I've seen yours- Can you please send the link?

Thanks!
D.
Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 10 January 2016 16:47:23(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Here it is, Dennis:



Incidentally, one of the things I like about these wagons is the fact that coupling and uncoupling them is pretty easy. Much more so than with my Roco Ice Train, where it is a nightmare.

Have a good Sunday, Dennis and everyone.


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Offline dennisb  
#16 Posted : 10 January 2016 20:47:30(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Here it is, Dennis:

Incidentally, one of the things I like about these wagons is the fact that coupling and uncoupling them is pretty easy. Much more so than with my Roco Ice Train, where it is a nightmare.

Have a good Sunday, Dennis and everyone.




Thanks for the link! I agree, these couplers are great. I'd love to have that on all wagons with lights inside.

Looking at your video I think they sound pretty much the same. I'll send them away and see what can be done.

Thanks!
D.
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Offline Dimi194  
#17 Posted : 11 January 2016 01:23:33(UTC)
Dimi194

Australia   
Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Here it is, Dennis:



Incidentally, one of the things I like about these wagons is the fact that coupling and uncoupling them is pretty easy. Much more so than with my Roco Ice Train, where it is a nightmare.

Have a good Sunday, Dennis and everyone.




All my wagons with pick-ups (which is 3 sets of passenger wagons and a freight car) make the same 'clickly' sound; I didn't think it was a 'problem,' more a side-effect of the cool lighting Cool
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person!
Offline dennisb  
#18 Posted : 25 July 2016 15:51:41(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Just wanted to give a short update. I exchanged the pickup shoe for a Roco silent pickup shoe and the noise went away directly. Now it runs smoothly as it should (and as my other wagons with light inside).

I can definitely recommend that to anyone else that's a bit annoyed by the noise.

//Dennis
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Offline Herrfleck  
#19 Posted : 25 July 2016 19:06:06(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: dennisb Go to Quoted Post
Just wanted to give a short update. I exchanged the pickup shoe for a Roco silent pickup shoe and the noise went away directly. Now it runs smoothly as it should (and as my other wagons with light inside).

I can definitely recommend that to anyone else that's a bit annoyed by the noise.

//Dennis


Hello Dennis!

Sounds nice. Can you please give the number on the Roco pickup shoe?

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
Offline dennisb  
#20 Posted : 25 July 2016 19:16:50(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
It has item number 86030: http://www.roco.cc/en/se...x.html?p=y&ssp=86030

//Dennis
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