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Offline Harvey  
#1 Posted : 28 June 2016 03:37:38(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Hi

I am having trouble identifying the reason that current is not flowing to the signal block when the lights are set to green. I use M track with CS2 software 4.1.2(3).

For each signal, I programmed on the programmng track following the instructions in the digital newsletter Vol 27 No2 Sept 2015. I first set the dip switches per the manual and then assigned to an address and confirmed the settings. The CS2 recognized the decoder and I tested by changing the lights. All fine.

I then installed the signals on the layout following the wiring diagram on page 32 of the manual, with some exceptions. I use a distribution slip 72090 to bring current from my loop wires. The red and brown wires from the signal are connected to the distribution slips. I then run red and brown wires to the track before and after the signal block (the signal block is 2 tracks long). I connect 1 red wire from the signal (again, following the diagram on pg 32) to the center rail of the signal block (the center connector on the m track). Given this approach, I have deviated from the diagram on pg 32. I tested that the signal changes red to green, etc. I set the signals green and then rolled a coach car which has a slider. The lights came on before and after the block but not in the block. I then used my 'testing bulb' (simple bulb in socket with wires) and tested various track sections. Same result. I then connected the red wire from the signal to one test bulb wire and the other wire to the outer rail of the block, thus eliminating the question of my soldering a wire to the center rail. No light. (I did test the light outside the block to make sure the bulb is good - it is). Since there are two red wires coming from the signal, I tested each - no success. I even connected the plug to the catenary plug on the signal and still no success.

I would think I have a defective decoder but I have installed three. I cann't imagine I have 3 defective deconers. I must be doing something wrong.

Appreciate suggestions on other things to test or alternative wiring approach.

Harvey
Offline Harvey  
#2 Posted : 30 June 2016 03:47:35(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
I wrote to Rick and Curtis (Digital Club) and they provided the answer. Of course, obvious after you read the answer. The two red wires bring current from the running section of track to the block. I had thought the red/brown wire from the decoder powered both the light and track. This answered a question I had posted elsewhere - why two red wires. I believe this answers another question I had raised but had not received an answer. I believe the red/brown wire can come from one power source while the two red wires are fed by a second power source - thus one can have one power source for turnouts and lights and another for tracks. This is how it was for earlier signals - but not explained in the current manual. I asked Rick to confirm.

Regards
Harvey
Offline TEEWolf  
#3 Posted : 05 July 2016 21:31:52(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Hallo Harvey,

first I posted a wrong reply - sorry. But I have similar problems with my metal tracks. I think they have to be different isolated then the plastic C-tracks. I did not solve the problem yet, because at the moment I threw out the metal tracks and use only C-tracks. Huh - sorry.

Are you aware, that at page 32 of the instruction, it is explizit written that the connection and isolation is only for C-tracks.

But where do you locate the decoder for your new signals? And did you read this answer from Bigdaddynz post #22 Posted : 30 June 2016 11:19:19 in the topic
"Bought my first signal and got really disappointed!" in this forum?

https://www.marklin-user...-got-really-disappointed

In his post he set up a download of an article from the "Maerklin Magazin 2015-5.pdf" in English about the new digital signals. A very helpful article I think.

regards

TEEWolf
Offline Harvey  
#4 Posted : 06 July 2016 02:25:24(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Hallo Harvey,

first I posted a wrong reply - sorry. But I have similar problems with my metal tracks. I think they have to be different isolated then the plastic C-tracks. I did not solve the problem yet, because at the moment I threw out the metal tracks and use only C-tracks. Huh - sorry.

Are you aware, that at page 32 of the instruction, it is explizit written that the connection and isolation is only for C-tracks.

But where do you locate the decoder for your new signals? And did you read this answer from Bigdaddynz post #22 Posted : 30 June 2016 11:19:19 in the topic
"Bought my first signal and got really disappointed!" in this forum?

https://www.marklin-user...-got-really-disappointed

In his post he set up a download of an article from the "Maerklin Magazin 2015-5.pdf" in English about the new digital signals. A very helpful article I think.

regards

TEEWolf



TeeWolf - thanks for the reply and yes I had read the magazine after I received an answer from the Digital Guys. Everything works now. I have placed the decoders under the surface (3/4" plywood). For isolation of the block, I use electricians tape and never have an issue (if I frequently disconnect and reconnect that track I will replace the tape). Rick and Curtis are researching one additional question - can I connect the brown and red to a different power source. I think I can but they are going to research after attending a train show. IF the answer is is yes, then these signals operate in a similar manner as prior signals.

Regards
Harvey
Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 07 July 2016 00:42:36(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Hallo Harvey,

first I posted a wrong reply - sorry. But I have similar problems with my metal tracks. I think they have to be different isolated then the plastic C-tracks. I did not solve the problem yet, because at the moment I threw out the metal tracks and use only C-tracks. Huh - sorry.

Are you aware, that at page 32 of the instruction, it is explizit written that the connection and isolation is only for C-tracks.

But where do you locate the decoder for your new signals? And did you read this answer from Bigdaddynz post #22 Posted : 30 June 2016 11:19:19 in the topic
"Bought my first signal and got really disappointed!" in this forum?

https://www.marklin-user...-got-really-disappointed

In his post he set up a download of an article from the "Maerklin Magazin 2015-5.pdf" in English about the new digital signals. A very helpful article I think.

regards

TEEWolf



TeeWolf - thanks for the reply and yes I had read the magazine after I received an answer from the Digital Guys. Everything works now. I have placed the decoders under the surface (3/4" plywood). For isolation of the block, I use electricians tape and never have an issue (if I frequently disconnect and reconnect that track I will replace the tape). Rick and Curtis are researching one additional question - can I connect the brown and red to a different power source. I think I can but they are going to research after attending a train show. IF the answer is is yes, then these signals operate in a similar manner as prior signals.

Regards
Harvey



Hi Harvey,

under the topic "Turnouts with a decoder - how to use them" in this forum (link:
https://www.marklin-user...coder---how-to-use-them)

under the post #13 I have uploaded two pictures with circuit layouts. The one shows the digital connection of a MS2 and e.g. a m83 decoder, connected for switching a turnout in a one full digital control system environment.
The other one shows the split up between a digital control system for the MS2 and an analogue control system for the connection of turnouts, etc.. Perhaps the first fully digital control system gives you an idea for your question.

regards

Wolfgang




Offline Harvey  
#6 Posted : 07 July 2016 03:06:37(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Hallo Harvey,

first I posted a wrong reply - sorry. But I have similar problems with my metal tracks. I think they have to be different isolated then the plastic C-tracks. I did not solve the problem yet, because at the moment I threw out the metal tracks and use only C-tracks. Huh - sorry.

Are you aware, that at page 32 of the instruction, it is explizit written that the connection and isolation is only for C-tracks.

But where do you locate the decoder for your new signals? And did you read this answer from Bigdaddynz post #22 Posted : 30 June 2016 11:19:19 in the topic
"Bought my first signal and got really disappointed!" in this forum?

https://www.marklin-user...-got-really-disappointed

In his post he set up a download of an article from the "Maerklin Magazin 2015-5.pdf" in English about the new digital signals. A very helpful article I think.

regards

TEEWolf



TeeWolf - thanks for the reply and yes I had read the magazine after I received an answer from the Digital Guys. Everything works now. I have placed the decoders under the surface (3/4" plywood). For isolation of the block, I use electricians tape and never have an issue (if I frequently disconnect and reconnect that track I will replace the tape). Rick and Curtis are researching one additional question - can I connect the brown and red to a different power source. I think I can but they are going to research after attending a train show. IF the answer is is yes, then these signals operate in a similar manner as prior signals.

Regards
Harvey



Hi Harvey,

under the topic "Turnouts with a decoder - how to use them" in this forum (link:
https://www.marklin-user...coder---how-to-use-them)

under the post #13 I have uploaded two pictures with circuit layouts. The one shows the digital connection of a MS2 and e.g. a m83 decoder, connected for switching a turnout in a one full digital control system environment.
The other one shows the split up between a digital control system for the MS2 and an analogue control system for the connection of turnouts, etc.. Perhaps the first fully digital control system gives you an idea for your question.

regards

Wolfgang






Wolfgang

Thanks for the reference. The first picture referenced is using 1 transformer for the lamp while the MS is powering both track and M83 for turnout. I have taken a different approach. My logic (maybe too strong a term) is to use 1 power source for tracks and another power source for all accessories. I use the CS2 to power the M track for freight, a 60174 to power passenger tracks (and passenger car lights) and a 6017 to power all accessories on either line.

In my current layout (still being built) the 6017 powers the K83s (for solenoid turnouts) and the K84s (just the red and brown input). K84s are used to turn power on/off in hidden yards. The CS2 or 60174 will provide the power to the tracks for those sections. In my prior layout, with 763xx signals, I used the 6017 to power the light in the signal and the CS2 or 60174 to power the main line and block. I have an M84 on order and want to see if I can set that up similarly as the K84 - the Digital Newletter team indicated this can be done. For the newer signals, nothing appears in the manual regarding using the 6017 to power the light and the CS2 to power the track (through the two red wires). I believe this will work but I am awaiting the response from the Digital Newsletter team. I am assuming the signal decoder isolates the current going through the red wires from that going to the light.

I have the old Marklin signal manual - hopefully Marklin will ask Jeff to translate the new manual into English.

Regards
Harvey
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