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Offline Purellum  
#51 Posted : 25 June 2016 21:55:13(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Not truth! Viessmann did present new protocol in the commander with the mfx.


Well, not really; only by getting the MFX-address on the programing track; not on the main track.

And even that way, it's not possible to read the loc type or the function pictures related to the 16 functions it can control.

In reality it's something like 20 - 25 % of what is possible with Ecos or Märklin equipment.

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline michelvr  
#52 Posted : 26 June 2016 00:23:43(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Congratulations EcOS was my choice also!

When you go big into DCC you buy a system that will last and ECoS is a good choice!

As someone who has, "been there, done that" with DCC all the systems out there are pretty good! I started years ago with the Digitrax system and I was not too happy with it, so sold it. My start in Marklin was with a starter set with Marklin MS2. I was in the process of buying a Marklin Central System when I read about ESU DCC. The more I read about the Marklin CS the more I learnt about ESU and then I bought the EcOS instead. I'm a very happy ESU EcOS owner!

Most DCC electronic items have a, "planned obsolescence" life span of five years. Usually the manufacturer then upgrades to the next version. I bought mine in 2012 so this is so far great as I have not heard of a hint of a new EcOS 5300 yet!

Both system cost about 1000.00 the only difference is with Marklin, you need to buy a transformer! Why?

With the ESU EcOS the transformer is included with adapters for either the EU or NA market!BigGrin

Michel
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#53 Posted : 26 June 2016 01:05:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
With the ESU EcOS the transformer is included with adapters for either the EU or NA market!


It isn't a transformer that is supplied with the Ecos, rather it is a 90va switchmode power supply - more stable power and maintains the normal voltage output when under full load, i.e. no voltage drop.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#54 Posted : 26 June 2016 01:50:44(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
OK, they decided to save a few cents by dropping the 6017 connector.

Yeah - I don't get that part either - corporate decision making at its finest! They obsolete otherwise functional hardware for virtually no gain to them or to us. It would cost them virtually nothing to maintain support for the old hardware and they should have done that. But on the other hand Marklin has exceeded my expectations on keeping things backward compatible and it could certainly be worse.

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
You may be able to use a 6017 booster with a CS2 connected as a remote to a CS3+, but that would be a rather expensive way of doing it.

I have a fairly new CS2 that I use with both 60174 boosters and the old 6015/6017 boosters. I assume that I would just get a CS3 and make the CS2 a slave and keep on using that old hardware while it still works. Not an expensive approach in my case, but a way to reuse electronics that are long bought and paid for and which work just fine. The boosters are very old and I assume that they will need replaced eventually, but for now they let me not spend on infrastructure and buy more trains - which is why I am into all of this in the first place. Cool

Edited by user 27 June 2016 15:22:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Goofy  
#55 Posted : 26 June 2016 15:41:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Not truth! Viessmann did present new protocol in the commander with the mfx.


Well, not really; only by getting the MFX-address on the programing track; not on the main track.

And even that way, it's not possible to read the loc type or the function pictures related to the 16 functions it can control.

In reality it's something like 20 - 25 % of what is possible with Ecos or Märklin equipment.

Per.







Nope...it´s only digital functions that is difference.
You can use mfx protocol or and M4 anyway.
Getting mfx adress accept even on the main track or else you can´t call up adress by start drive.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#56 Posted : 26 June 2016 15:56:18(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Nope...it´s only digital functions that is difference.
You can use mfx protocol or and M4 anyway.
Getting mfx adress accept even on the main track or else you can´t call up adress by start drive.


Ohhh, so you think Viessmann made an error in the manual for the update ??

http://www.viessmann-mod...%20Software%201,4_DE.pdf

"Da der Commander keine Hardware hat, um mfx-Daten am Hauptgleis zu lesen, braucht
man das Programmiergleis, um mfx-Lokomotiven am Commander adressieren zu können.
Nachdem eine mfx-Lokomotive am Programmiergleis erkannt wurde, kann diese
am Hauptgleis gefahren werden, und alle 16 Funktionen sind bedienbar. Ein Auslesen
der Lokbezeichnung (z. B. BR103), Funktionsbilder usw. ist leider nicht möglich. Diese
Informationen müssen manuell eingetragen werden.
Um eine mfx-Lokomotive fahren zu können, soll diese auf das Programmiergleis gestellt
werden. Nach wenigen Sekunden wird die ID der Lok ausgelesen. Falls die Lok am
Commander noch nie angemeldet war, wird automatisch die kleinste freie Lokadresse
zugeordnet."


Google translate to English, corrected at bit by me:

"As the Commander has no hardware to read mfx data on the main track, it needs
the programming track to address mfx locomotives on Commander.
After an mfx locomotive was detected on the programming track, this can
be run on the main track, and all the 16 functions can be operated. A reading
of the Locomotive name (z. B. BR103), functional images can unfortunately not be done.
This information must be entered manually.
To drive an mfx locomotive, this is placed on the programming track.
After a few seconds, the ID of the locomotive is read. If the locomotive on
Commander has never been logged in automatically, the smallest free loco address is
assigned."

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Goofy  
#57 Posted : 27 June 2016 09:28:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Interesting!
Then in case...there is no use of auto registration after all.
Waste of time!
Or...?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline TEEWolf  
#58 Posted : 06 July 2016 04:48:37(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
Hello everybody.
I'm more confused then ever about digital. I was planning a analog layout and then read about the digital and thought I would rather make it digital. I would like to control engines with Marklin decoders and dcc decoders from other manufacturers. I'm not into changing the cv's or any other involved stuff. I like to have good sound and running engines. So my question is wich of the 2 systems is easier to use the CS2 or ESU 50200?? Any input is appreciated. Thanks
Robert


Hi Robert,

easier to use is the Maerklin CS3. Disadvantage: at the moment not yet available. But the CS2 is also no longer availbale form Maerklin. You may buy it from a dealer who will have them still on stock. But I would pay for it only about 200 € including the power supply for a CS2. The background is, that the CS3 brings a significant technological progress compared to the CS2. But later on the CS2 is still useable as a booster or slave. The price of a booster is about 200 € including a power supply.

I am also waiting for the CS3. And I will look first, what Maerklin offers for digital starter packages. The advantage is that they include everything for the start up. Just put all parts from the package together and start playing. I did this when I started, but I bought a start-up with two MS2 in it, because I preferred the two locos inside. It was the 29040 - look here

digital start up DB Bundesbahn


So some packages will come with a CS3 including also a power supply. Otherwise you must pay for it extra.

Second in these start-up packages (with the CS in it) offers locos with the mfx+ decoder. This opens you a complete new world of playing. Because with a smart TV you can reproduce a locomotive train simulator over your pc. Maerklin offers the necessary software for free. Nobody else can do this on the mini railway market at the moment.

mfx+ has against ESU the advantage, that your loco is automatically registered and installed in your controller. Very comfortable and you do not have to do any programming before the locos are running. I only got locos with mfx or mfx+ decoders and it is excellent functioning. I really can recommend it, especially that you do want to play with the railway instead to start to be a programmer.Huh

regards

TEEWolf

(please note: my prices are based on German dealers).
Offline H0  
#59 Posted : 06 July 2016 07:21:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
easier to use is the Maerklin CS3
Hear, hear.
Remains to be seen how easy it really is. And how intuitive and how ergonomic.

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I only got locos with mfx or mfx+ decoders and it is excellent functioning.
I got too many mfx locos. Had several problems - until I disabled mfx in the controller.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline biedmatt  
#60 Posted : 06 July 2016 13:34:13(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I only got locos with mfx or mfx+ decoders and it is excellent functioning.


You are part of the fortunate few.

https://www.marklin-user...a-functional-alternative
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#61 Posted : 06 July 2016 14:04:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I also have excellent results from my mfx locos, and I don't believe I'm one of only a few.

mfx is one of Marklin's success stories. All my recent new locos have mfx, and I have yet to get one that does not register first time on my MS2.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#62 Posted : 06 July 2016 17:38:19(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I only got locos with mfx or mfx+ decoders and it is excellent functioning.
I got too many mfx locos. Had several problems - until I disabled mfx in the controller.


I too did had problem with the mfx+ decoder.
Sometimes do Märklins mfx defaults.
I suspects bad service from Märklin,by not testing all locomotives before leaving the factory.
To use digital system like Ecos or CS2 can been discuss a lot,but there do also have some trouble by use them.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline dickinsonj  
#63 Posted : 06 July 2016 17:46:33(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post

You are part of the fortunate few.

https://www.marklin-user...a-functional-alternative

Hey Matt,

Thanks for that link. I knew that you and Tom both have issues with MFX decoders but I didn't understand the details until I read your thread. You are both what I would call power users, so I knew there was substance to your objections but I didn't fully understand them before. I am still catching up on the current world of Marklin.

From what I can tell though you would have these problems regardless of which controller you use, as long as you are running MFX equipment. Is that correct?
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline biedmatt  
#64 Posted : 06 July 2016 19:32:19(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I also have excellent results from my mfx locos, and I don't believe I'm one of only a few.

mfx is one of Marklin's success stories. All my recent new locos have mfx, and I have yet to get one that does not register first time on my MS2.


https://www.marklin-user...mFX-work.aspx#post467628
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline biedmatt  
#65 Posted : 06 July 2016 19:36:39(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

From what I can tell though you would have these problems regardless of which controller you use, as long as you are running MFX equipment. Is that correct?


Hi Jim, You are correct. I have had MFX registration problems with my ECoS, others have reported problems with an MS2 (my link to Ray's post above), I think Tom uses a CS1 reloaded and I believe others have had problems with the CS2.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline dickinsonj  
#66 Posted : 06 July 2016 20:18:59(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post

Hi Jim, You are correct. I have had MFX registration problems with my ECoS, others have reported problems with an MS2 (my link to Ray's post above), I think Tom uses a CS1 reloaded and I believe others have had problems with the CS2.


Thanks for the info Matt. I have not yet had any problems with MFX and my CS2. I don't do some of the things that seem to trigger the problems, like de-powering sidings. That makes me wonder what will happen when I get my trains out again this fall after months of storage. Perhaps that will trigger the re-registration, although I still don't understand what the criteria are to make that happen. That is probably dependant upon the specific controller implementation.

I was glad that I saw your thread because I had wondered why you replaced all of your Marklin decoders. I know they have limitations but I am just waiting to replace mine as I see the need. It is particularly odd to me that the retrofit decoders Marklin sells are not limited in the same ways as those in new (and expensive) loks are. I can think of no good reason for Marklin to do that!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline RayF  
#67 Posted : 06 July 2016 21:57:17(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I also have excellent results from my mfx locos, and I don't believe I'm one of only a few.

mfx is one of Marklin's success stories. All my recent new locos have mfx, and I have yet to get one that does not register first time on my MS2.


https://www.marklin-user...mFX-work.aspx#post467628


Hi Matt,

Since I posted in that thread I've had no further problems other than with mfx+ before I got my MS2 updated.

I now know that the secret to mfx working well is to do things in the right order. Never delete a loco from your loco list without taking it off the track first. If you do this then it will register itself perfectly the next time you place it on the track. Also never interrupt the registration process.

The amount of time I've spent over the years in solving any mfx problems is negligible compared to the time I've saved having the locos register themselves.

I appreciate that mfx is not everyone's cup of tea, but I would recommend users to try it before committing to non-mfx digital systems.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline biedmatt  
#68 Posted : 06 July 2016 22:54:29(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hi Ray,

Do you delete the lokos each time you place them back on the shelf and rotate in a new stock, or do you leave the loko in the memory after you remove the loko?

Are you using signals or sidings where you remove power from the track?
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline RayF  
#69 Posted : 07 July 2016 00:14:01(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ray,

Do you delete the lokos each time you place them back on the shelf and rotate in a new stock, or do you leave the loko in the memory after you remove the loko?

Are you using signals or sidings where you remove power from the track?


Yes I delete every loco when I take it off the layout. The MS2 only has 40 slots and I have well over 100 digital locos. It's easier to keep track of what loco I have registered if I only keep in memory those locos I'm currently running.

I do have isolated sections but they are only switched off in analogue operation. When I operate digital trains the whole layout is either powered or off.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Minok  
#70 Posted : 07 July 2016 00:17:03(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
A booster is a rather simple amplifier.
I can connect my 5 year old CD player to a tube radio from the '50s and they work fine, using the tube radio as an amplifier. The tube radio from the '50s works fine with external speakers from the '70s.


I doubt the 50's era tube radio has a 3.5mm input aux jack to plug the CD player into.. so you'd have to do some customization to get it interfaced.
Similarly, I suspect one can design and build an interface to get a way to interface the boosters to the CS3 unless there is some real reason (electronically) that this is not possible.

Hey The CS3 will still support the 1950's M-Track technology at least... that's not bad.

I would expect Märklin had an engineering reason for not supporting the old boosters - either due to a technical challenge or the # of affected users wasn't worth the expense of adding the functionality to the CS3. Business and engineering decisions are surely behind it and I would think its more than just "lets make those old booster users buy new boosters.. yeah, that profit margin will make us rich!".

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline TEEWolf  
#71 Posted : 07 July 2016 02:20:03(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Go to Quoted Post
First I want to say thank you to everybody for the input. I'm going to get the ESU ecos system. Thank you John. Your info is the closest to what I have in mind. I like the options I would get with that system and the ESU sound decoders. Thanks.
Robert



Hallo Robert,

finally I found the homepage again I always kept in mind, which is comparing a few controller. It is in German - sorry for that - but it has a lot of tabeles, etc. So I think it might be helpful for you too.

Overview multiprotocol controller systems

The owner of this homepage informs, that it is not a shop. You can nothing buy from him. It is only an information.

regards

Wolfgang
Offline TEEWolf  
#72 Posted : 07 July 2016 02:52:46(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Yes I delete every loco when I take it off the layout. The MS2 only has 40 slots and I have well over 100 digital locos. It's easier to keep track of what loco I have registered if I only keep in memory those locos I'm currently running.

I do have isolated sections but they are only switched off in analogue operation. When I operate digital trains the whole layout is either powered or off.


Hi Ray,

this link may help you to shut off digital storage sidings completely. It is tip 310 from Maerklin, sorry only in German. But perhaps here is a member, knowing where to find this tip in English, if available. Maerklin writes in its tip, that they are aware about the need to shut off some digital aereas to protect them against accidentally use.

Maerklin tip 310 digitally sections shut off completley

But in this tip you see a layout plan and this may help you without any words.

The last sentence says: "the applicable decoder k84 can alternatively be replaced by a universal remote switch 7244 at a decoder k83 output."

I guess this tip is not updated yet and you have to take the new decoders m84 or m83.

regards

TEEWolf
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Offline H0  
#73 Posted : 07 July 2016 08:29:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I doubt the 50's era tube radio has a 3.5mm input aux jack to plug the CD player into.. so you'd have to do some customization to get it interfaced.
It has 5-pole DIN sockets and I have adaptor cables to connect that to Cinch (my big CD player) or 3.5 mm (portable CD player). Same voltage level.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I would expect Märklin had an engineering reason for not supporting the old boosters - either due to a technical challenge or the # of affected users wasn't worth the expense of adding the functionality to the CS3.
I think they wanted to get rid of a legacy connector in order to sell more new 60175 boosters.
But probably they won't tell us.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#74 Posted : 07 July 2016 08:57:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I also have excellent results from my mfx locos, and I don't believe I'm one of only a few.
It seems you never have more than 8 locos on your layout at any time.

And AFAIK you replace your locos weekly - one week on the layout, months on the shelve before they return to the layout. And you delete them from the controller when you remove them.


People with a large layout will have more locos on the track. People with a Central Station have no reason to delete locos they put on a shelve for a while.
I'm afraid mfx does not scale - and you work around any potential scalability problems so it works well for you.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline dickinsonj  
#75 Posted : 07 July 2016 13:20:43(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I think they wanted to get rid of a legacy connector in order to sell more new 60175 boosters.
But probably they won't tell us.

Tom - I have one 60174 booster and I am assuming it will work with the CS3 - do you know if that is correct?

I also have seen that you do not like the 60174 very much. Can you tell me why that is? I am wondering if I would be better off to just move to only 60175 boosters when/if I move to a CS3.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Hackcell  
#76 Posted : 07 July 2016 22:05:51(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
I've been using both CS2 and ECOS 50200 for almost a week, and I think the final decision depends of what kind of accessories are you going to use.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#77 Posted : 07 July 2016 22:44:49(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Tom - I have one 60174 booster and I am assuming it will work with the CS3 - do you know if that is correct?


AFAIK there is no difference between the 60174 and 60175 apart from the fact that one has a grey case and the other has a black case. So I'm expecting that 60174 will work with the CS3 (I have 2 60174's)

Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I also have seen that you do not like the 60174 very much. Can you tell me why that is? I am wondering if I would be better off to just move to only 60175 boosters when/if I move to a CS3.


Tom does not have a CS2 so does not need a 60174. Tom uses a CS1 with the ESU Reloaded update, so he can only use 6015/6017 boosters or an Ecos Ecosboost booster (what should have been the 60172).

As for your question about the 60175, see my comment above.
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Offline biedmatt  
#78 Posted : 07 July 2016 23:14:45(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
I've been using both CS2 and ECOS 50200 for almost a week, and I think the final decision depends of what kind of accessories are you going to use.


Hi Danilo, I saw your post at ESU's forum. You have found the M signals will work in DCC, but you must turn off RailCom on your controller or the signals will not work. Have I accurately characterized your post?
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline Hackcell  
#79 Posted : 07 July 2016 23:27:11(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
I've been using both CS2 and ECOS 50200 for almost a week, and I think the final decision depends of what kind of accessories are you going to use.


Hi Danilo, I saw your post at ESU's forum. You have found the M signals will work in DCC, but you must turn off RailCom on your controller or the signals will not work. Have I accurately characterized your post?


Hello there, Matt!

Yes, that was me Smile What I'm going to do is to use a LDT booster to have all signals under a single circuit, perhaps what would do the trick, otherwise I'll buy the railcom cut out pcb. I wanted an ECOS because of the ABC braking support and the railcom features, and if I won't be able to use one of these functions, it makes no sense to have it.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline H0  
#80 Posted : 08 July 2016 08:46:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Tom does not have a CS2 [...]
I do have a CS2.
It is so buggy and so unergonomic that I do not even consider using it as a slave to my CS1 (would be possible with the Sniffer port).

Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I also have seen that you do not like the 60174 very much. Can you tell me why that is?
The 60174 booster ties you to the CS2/CS3 family. Otherwise I do not see any disadvantages.
With ECoSBoost you are tied to the CS1/ECoS family. Same dilemma. At least you get RailCom+ with ECoSBoost.

The 60172 was vapourware only - in the catalogue for years, but never shipped.
The 60173 has a brain-damaged design, incompatible with M track and leading to wiring problems with C and K track, too. The design is so bad that Märklin offer free upgrades to 60174.

With digital you only need two wires. Build a layout with 6604/66045 boosters and you only need two wires - you can connect an MS2, CS1, CS2, Intellibox, Z21, ... and they will work.
I do not need any boosters now. I intend to stick with the 6604/66045 boosters as long as possible because then I can choose between different controllers just with the flick of a switch - with digital you only need two wires ...


Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
mfx is one of Marklin's success stories.
For FCC-compliance they made dongles that go between MS2/CS2 and track. Customers in the US can choose: either install the dongle for FCC-compliance (inhibits mfx registration) or leave the dongle away (no compliance with FCC regulations, but mfx will work).

RailCom+ does the same as mfx, just faster and more reliable. And unlike mfx, RailCom+ is an open standard.

The choice between CS2 and ECoS is also the choice between mfx and mfx+ versus mfx and RailCom+.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#81 Posted : 08 July 2016 13:14:35(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I do have a CS2.....


I stand corrected! Smile
Offline biedmatt  
#82 Posted : 08 July 2016 13:24:17(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
All my recent new locos have mfx, and I have yet to get one that does not register first time on my MS2.


Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Yes I delete every loco when I take it off the layout. The MS2 only has 40 slots and I have well over 100 digital locos. It's easier to keep track of what loco I have registered if I only keep in memory those locos I'm currently running.

I do have isolated sections but they are only switched off in analogue operation. When I operate digital trains the whole layout is either powered or off.




Hi Ray, Based on your post #61, I thought perhaps M had fixed the problems with MFX. Now I understand you use a work around that prevents you from having the MFX re-registration issues. I am glad you have found a way to make it work for you. For me, every time I think about my switch to DCC, my feet break out into a heel clicking gigue and a grin fills my face.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline dickinsonj  
#83 Posted : 08 July 2016 15:10:57(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
For me, every time I think about my switch to DCC, my feet break out into a heel clicking gigue and a grin fills my face.
Wow - now there is an endorsement! Cool I don't have any MFX issues but I may have just been lucky in how I use the system.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

With ECoSBoost you are tied to the CS1/ECoS family. Same dilemma. At least you get RailCom+ with ECoSBoost.

That is exactly my current dilemma. I need to decide which camp I am going to be in before I invest more money in MRR digital controls.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Customers in the US can choose: either install the dongle for FCC-compliance (inhibits mfx registration) or leave the dongle away (no compliance with FCC regulations, but mfx will work).
That is not true for me. I use the dongles and all of my MFX loks register immediately and communicate with the CS2 without any apparent issues.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline RayF  
#84 Posted : 08 July 2016 17:26:04(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
All my recent new locos have mfx, and I have yet to get one that does not register first time on my MS2.


Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Yes I delete every loco when I take it off the layout. The MS2 only has 40 slots and I have well over 100 digital locos. It's easier to keep track of what loco I have registered if I only keep in memory those locos I'm currently running.

I do have isolated sections but they are only switched off in analogue operation. When I operate digital trains the whole layout is either powered or off.




Hi Ray, Based on your post #61, I thought perhaps M had fixed the problems with MFX. Now I understand you use a work around that prevents you from having the MFX re-registration issues. I am glad you have found a way to make it work for you. For me, every time I think about my switch to DCC, my feet break out into a heel clicking gigue and a grin fills my face.


I've never really understood what the problem is for some people. Once the loco is registered the MS2 remembers it even after powering off and then powering back on. Why should the loco try to re-register?

As far as I'm concerned I haven't worked around any problem. I just haven't had one.

Is the behaviour of the CS2 different from the MS2 in this respect?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#85 Posted : 08 July 2016 21:11:59(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Once the loco is registered the MS2 remembers it even after powering off and then powering back on. Why should the loco try to re-register?

As far as I'm concerned I haven't worked around any problem. I just haven't had one.

Is the behaviour of the CS2 different from the MS2 in this respect?


If the loko is removed from the track or parked in an unpowered siding and the power to the control is cycled (not "stop", but AC power) while that loko is off the track or in an unpowered siding, then it must re-register. When I state re-register, I mean the whole registration sequence a second time even though you can see and select that loko in your controller. Apparently if the controller does not "ping" the MFX decoder each time it is powered up, then it believes the loko may have had a program change and it must re-acquire all info for that loko again once it sees it again. Even if you have not made a change to the lokos program. You work around the re-register by not parking lokos in dead track sections and by deleting them once you remove it and rotate in another set of lokos. The problem of failed re-registration occurs when the controller recognizes many lokos as "new" or "returned". This is likely when several lokos are parked in a dead siding and then the controller tries to re-acqure a few lokos at the same time. This is why Tom then has to push lokos around and remove them from the track to get the whole mess sorted out.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline RayF  
#86 Posted : 08 July 2016 22:32:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Once the loco is registered the MS2 remembers it even after powering off and then powering back on. Why should the loco try to re-register?

As far as I'm concerned I haven't worked around any problem. I just haven't had one.

Is the behaviour of the CS2 different from the MS2 in this respect?


If the loko is removed from the track or parked in an unpowered siding and the power to the control is cycled (not "stop", but AC power) while that loko is off the track or in an unpowered siding, then it must re-register. When I state re-register, I mean the whole registration sequence a second time even though you can see and select that loko in your controller. Apparently if the controller does not "ping" the MFX decoder each time it is powered up, then it believes the loko may have had a program change and it must re-acquire all info for that loko again once it sees it again. Even if you have not made a change to the lokos program. You work around the re-register by not parking lokos in dead track sections and by deleting them once you remove it and rotate in another set of lokos. The problem of failed re-registration occurs when the controller recognizes many lokos as "new" or "returned". This is likely when several lokos are parked in a dead siding and then the controller tries to re-acqure a few lokos at the same time. This is why Tom then has to push lokos around and remove them from the track to get the whole mess sorted out.


I've never observed that behaviour, even though I do sometimes take locos off the track and not delete them. Maybe the MS2 does this differently from the CS2.

For me it has always seemed like common sense to delete locos that are not in use, especially when the MS2 in its original form only had 11 slots to play with. I can't see a time when I would want to have more than about 20 locos on the track at any time, so I don't see the problem you have experienced ever being an issue for me.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#87 Posted : 08 July 2016 22:47:01(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
As Tom states, it is a scaleability issue. I have just built a 16 stall Vollmer Ringlokschuppen. These 16 lokos will sit parked without power and the controller cycled on and off several times before a loko may be run again. This will trigger a re-registration. Since the Loko is already in the controller's memory it may or may not successfully re-register. Do this with several lokos on a siding and you will probably have to perform a hard reset when it hangs up trying to re-acquire several lokos simultaneously.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#88 Posted : 09 July 2016 01:50:52(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
As Tom states, it is a scaleability issue. I have just built a 16 stall Vollmer Ringlokschuppen. These 16 lokos will sit parked without power and the controller cycled on and off several times before a loko may be run again. This will trigger a re-registration. Since the Loko is already in the controller's memory it may or may not successfully re-register. Do this with several lokos on a siding and you will probably have to perform a hard reset when it hangs up trying to re-acquire several lokos simultaneously.

That states the issue quite clearly Matt, thanks.

Does this happen because the controller only pings the devices which were powered at the time of the last orderly shutdown? If the protocol requires that a decoder re-register if it has not received a controller ping in some defined time span - that would be the result. That seems to be the fault of the controller for not pinging all of the registered loks, not just the last used. I have fewer loks than the 25 that a CS2 can display at once, so unless there is a newly registered device, the "last used" list and the "all loks" lists are the same.

I have had MFX loks off of my layout for months, while the CS2 was power cycled many times. All of my loks have remained registered and available again after the controller was booted - as if they had always been powered. I have returned devices to an already booted system (with the track power off) and then had them not re-register after power was restored. I have never presented multiple devices to the controller at once, so perhaps that is the issue.

Interesting.

I hope that I can sort this out before I am ready to buy more electronics. I have two 6015, two 6017 and one 60174 boosters and it would be quite expensive to switch to ESU hardware right now. Of course only the 60174 is really relevant, so this would be a better time for me to switch than after I get several more 60175 boosters and a terminal.

Feedback is appreciated. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline biedmatt  
#89 Posted : 09 July 2016 02:19:59(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hi Jim, This is where it gets fuzzy. Some folks never have a problem, others seem to have it almost routinely. Consequently, there is no known quantity of on-off cyles of the controller that would trigger the re-register. Perz saw it and tried to determine the root cause of it with a protocol spy tool. I think he reached some theories, but never a clear and sure understanding of the cause. See his posts in my link above. Like Ray, I rotate lokos off my shelves and in and out of the layout. Unlike Ray, I never deleted them since the ECoS can store many more lokos than I will ever own. Where Ray gets a new registration each time he places a loko on the track, I would get a "missing loko now returned" re-register. Perhaps that is the root cause of the failures which prevent the loko from operating. Then you are stuck because you can't delete the loko which is half re-registered and must do a full reset and then reload your archived data and try again.

After a couple years of this I reluctantly decided I needed to replace MFX with a different format. A decision I did not make lightly since the cost would be substantial. But I realized I have a few more decades with this hobby and ultimately it would prove a good decision. Thankfully I had a RailCom+ compatible ECoS and not a CS2, so I did not have to replace the controller. I do not regret the choice I made.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline river6109  
#90 Posted : 09 July 2016 02:53:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Matt, I'm glad I didn't buy one, as I have over 200 locos and they are not all used at the same time or for longer periods (6-12month) I can put them onto my track and no worries they register (RailComPlus) every time.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline biedmatt  
#91 Posted : 09 July 2016 04:55:18(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Matt, I'm glad I didn't buy one, as I have over 200 locos and they are not all used at the same time or for longer periods (6-12month) I can put them onto my track and no worries they register (RailComPlus) every time.

John


Hi John, This is where RailCom+ gets interesting. No matter how long a loko has sat upon the shelf, once placed on the track it is immediately ready to run. But, the neat part is if I changed the program in the loko decoder with my LokProgrammer, my ECoS recognizes the change and in a few seconds performs a re-acquire and updates any changes- name, function icons, all of it. So the ECoS controller does re-register the loko, but only when it sees a change has occured and it must update the info it had previously stored for the loko. All in the matter of a few seconds and never has it failed to re-acquire. Perhaps the ECoS does a check sum of the loko decoder program and can tell when it has or has not changed. I do not know the cause, just seen the effect. MFX apparently can't tell if the decoder has changed, so it performs a re-register anytime a loko has been away.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline xxup  
#92 Posted : 09 July 2016 05:20:54(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
...MFX apparently can't tell if the decoder has changed, so it performs a re-register anytime a loko has been away.


Not quite true. I use many ESU M4 (mFx) decoders on my layout and the eCOS is fully aware if the decoder has been altered by LokProgrammer. I agree that it is likely that this might not be the behaviour of Marklins "pure" mFx decoders that can't be programmed by the LokProgrammer (except in simple ways - like MM address).. It would be interesting to test the latest decoders on the eCOS after they have been programmed with Marklin's own decoder programmer. MY guess is that the eCOS will detect the set flag correctly..

In any case, I am one of those people who do not experience any problems with mFx/M4 on my layout..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline biedmatt  
#93 Posted : 09 July 2016 05:48:52(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post


Not quite true. I use many ESU M4 (mFx) decoders on my layout and the eCOS is fully aware if the decoder has been altered by LokProgrammer.

In any case, I am one of those people who do not experience any problems with mFx/M4 on my layout..



Whatever the cause or trigger, there is one thing I do see as different between Railcom+ and MFX re-registrations. With Railcom+ I only get the Railcom icon on the ECoS on a previously registed loko that has been changed. With MFX I would get a four minute re-acquire on a decoder that had not changed. Why? My controller already knows this loko. Why spend a few minutes learning what is already known? Why must I wait and hope the re-register is successful?

Edited by user 09 July 2016 13:38:21(UTC)  | Reason: Typo, think and thing have two different meanings

Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline H0  
#94 Posted : 09 July 2016 08:34:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Customers in the US can choose: either install the dongle for FCC-compliance (inhibits mfx registration) or leave the dongle away (no compliance with FCC regulations, but mfx will work).
That is not true for me. I use the dongles and all of my MFX loks register immediately and communicate with the CS2 without any apparent issues.
There is an FCC dongle for the MS2, an FCC dongle for the CS2, and an EU dongle for the CS2.
We had several reports that the FCC dongle that came with US MS2 starter sets inhibits mfx registration. Maybe my original statement is not true for all locos and all dongles, but there surely is a problem with some combinations.
Are you sure you have the FCC dongle?

The Märklin dudes wrote in the last issue of the Digital Newsletter that those dongles were obsolete for digital operation. However this contradicts the description in the product database.

Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
MFX apparently can't tell if the decoder has changed, so it performs a re-register anytime a loko has been away.
ESU confirmed in the ESU forum that this is a design flaw of mfx.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#95 Posted : 09 July 2016 09:29:24(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I think we're all getting off topic here! In case anyone has forgotten, the topic is called Ecos or cs2? not Trouble with mFX..... Maybe a new topic should be started!
Offline Goofy  
#96 Posted : 09 July 2016 09:44:19(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I think we're all getting off topic here! In case anyone has forgotten, the topic is called Ecos or cs2? not Trouble with mFX..... Maybe a new topic should be started!


I must keep you in remind,that CS2 and Ecos 50200 do have difference to handle with the locomotives decoder.
In fact do Ecos win the race,to handle with the decoders.
I have been thinking about soft program in the digital system.
I have ESU V200 locomotive and it will been better by use Ecos 50200.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#97 Posted : 09 July 2016 09:50:21(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

ESU confirmed in the ESU forum that this is a design flaw of mfx.


Yes and i have seen it and read about that too.
But ESU M4 decoders do have design flaw too by use CS2.
It works better by use MM protocol.
But i don´t care,since i only use DCC protocol which works perfect.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#98 Posted : 09 July 2016 10:17:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
In case anyone has forgotten, the topic is called Ecos or cs2? not Trouble with mFX.....
I think that potential mfx problems are relevant for the purchase decision - one device supports RailCom and RailCom+, the other does not.
Those who have or intend to buy many non-Märklin locos might be happier with a non-Märklin controller.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline biedmatt  
#99 Posted : 09 July 2016 13:35:02(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I think we're all getting off topic here! In case anyone has forgotten, the topic is called Ecos or cs2? not Trouble with mFX..... Maybe a new topic should be started!


David, I believe this paragraph from post 89 indicates the relavence:

Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post

After a couple years of this I reluctantly decided I needed to replace MFX with a different format. A decision I did not make lightly since the cost would be substantial. But I realized I have a few more decades with this hobby and ultimately it would prove a good decision. Thankfully I had a RailCom+ compatible ECoS and not a CS2, so I did not have to replace the controller. I do not regret the choice I made.


The real difference besides the inherent problems with MFX is if someone wants to "play trains" and finds some value in a Marklin controller which will support MFX+. I have absolutely no use for MFX+ even if the format worked as advertised. No railroad sends their equipment out with the hope they have enough consumables to make it to the destination. So why would you want to run your scale railroad like this? I want my hobby to challenge me, not be some brainless running in circles while I look at how much sand my E-lok has on board. Martin's tutorial has shown how to run your toy trains like a real railroad.

Anyway, I now have nothing more to add to the discussion and unless asked a direct question, I am now finished with this thread.

https://www.marklin-user...s-and-Carcards-explained
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#100 Posted : 09 July 2016 14:29:58(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
In case anyone has forgotten, the topic is called Ecos or cs2? not Trouble with mFX.....
I think that potential mfx problems are relevant for the purchase decision - one device supports RailCom and RailCom+, the other does not.
Those who have or intend to buy many non-Märklin locos might be happier with a non-Märklin controller.

I agree. I had the same thought a day or so ago David but I decided that it was relevant for the reasons that Tom states. However the gorey details of MFX registration might best be discussed in a different thread. In my experience the moderator always wins. BigGrin

At this point in my understanding, the main reason that I would move from the CS2/CS3 system to Ecos would be to avoid the re-registration nightmare that some people experience. I also need to become better educated about RailCom, since that seems to be a big factor in this decision. The MFX re-registration problem is of particular interest to me since I am at a decision point but I have yet to see this happen with any of my MFX loks and my CS2. I do not anticipate that I will buy very many non-Märklin loks and I would prefer to remain with Märklin electronics if possible. There are some elements that I am not getting here and sorting this out is very relevant to my decision about which system will be best for me going forward.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Are you sure you have the FCC dongle?

The Märklin dudes wrote in the last issue of the Digital Newsletter that those dongles were obsolete for digital operation. However this contradicts the description in the product database.

Yes - I am quite sure. I decided to use it unless I saw an operational problem which appeared to be caused by it. I have not seen any, so I have always used it with my CS2. It is a 60215 with the latest software and none of my MFX loks have ever re-registered even after being returned to the layout after long absences.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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