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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 30 May 2016 17:55:31(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Have a look from 39952 insider VT95.9

39952 21 Functions for CS2? I know CS3 up to 32 functions.

UserPostedImage
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 30 May 2016 18:07:51(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Have a look from 39952 insider VT95.9

39952 21 Functions for CS2? I know CS3 up to 32 functions.

UserPostedImage


Grief, they are getting desperate to use the extra functions - 4 lots of 'surrounding sounds' - what are they, birds tweeting in the trees?

At least Goofy will now know of an item that will definitely be using the mLD/3 decoders ... Laugh Laugh Laugh

Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 30 May 2016 23:22:02(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
39952 21 Functions for CS2? I know CS3 up to 32 functions.


22 if you want to configure in shunting mode

And .. What about the 60213/60214.
In fact the table does not actually depict the 60216 or 60226
If they are going to include the 6021 why not the 60212.

When will these guys ever learn Crying
FUD is for the enemy and not channeled as friendly fire.
Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 30 May 2016 23:27:02(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Grief, they are getting desperate to use the extra functions - 4 lots of 'surrounding sounds' - what are they, birds tweeting in the trees?

At least ... know of an item that will definitely be using the mLD/3 decoders ...


I think it is an assumption that it will be a mSD/3
If it is , that would explain why there is a limited number of sounds, as 8MB is easy to fill up (with good-ish quality sounds)

Peter
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 30 May 2016 23:29:52(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Grief, they are getting desperate to use the extra functions - 4 lots of 'surrounding sounds' - what are they, birds tweeting in the trees?

At least ... know of an item that will definitely be using the mLD/3 decoders ...


I think it is an assumption that it will be a mSD/3


Umm, yeah, sorry, still getting used to the funny designations the marketing people have chosen for the products.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 30 May 2016 23:36:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
39952 21 Functions for CS2? I know CS3 up to 32 functions.


22 if you want to configure in shunting mode

And .. What about the 60213/60214.
In fact the table does not actually depict the 60216 or 60226
If they are going to include the 6021 why not the 60212.

When will these guys ever learn Crying
FUD is for the enemy and not channeled as friendly fire.


I would expect the 60215 to include 60213/4 as they run the same software.

I guess whatever issues that are holding up the 60216/60226 means the 39952 may be available before the controllers are, but a more likely explanation is that the cs3/3+ development news was not available to the marketing team doing the write up for the 39952 or it was deemed that the release date was going to be some unknown time after the release of 39952, so shouldn't be included on the data sheet.
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 31 May 2016 19:09:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Have a look from 39952 insider VT95.9

39952 21 Functions for CS2? I know CS3 up to 32 functions.

UserPostedImage


Did tried to find this information at Märklins homepage.
In fact is there no verified yet by of Märklin with all these functions.
Seems it´s an hoax.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline steventrain  
#8 Posted : 31 May 2016 20:46:21(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Did tried to find this information at Märklins homepage.
In fact is there no verified yet by of Märklin with all these functions.
Seems it´s an hoax.



From Marklin insider Club 3/2016 magazine, You can online view if you log in Club website.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 01 June 2016 06:56:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Did tried to find this information at Märklins homepage.
In fact is there no verified yet by of Märklin with all these functions.
Seems it´s an hoax.



From Marklin insider Club 3/2016 magazine, You can online view if you log in Club website.


I see...did it stand also possible changes?


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 01 June 2016 10:11:57(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


I see...did it stand also possible changes?



No, it's not a hoax, and it has been in the CAN-protocol since 2012 ( Chapter 3.6 ):

http://www.maerklin.de/f...cs2CAN-Protokoll-2_0.pdf

Get a life.

Per.

Cool


If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 01 June 2016 21:00:37(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


No, it's not a hoax, and it has been in the CAN-protocol since 2012 ( Chapter 3.6 ):

http://www.maerklin.de/f...cs2CAN-Protokoll-2_0.pdf

Per.



It will actually be 60216,because there is not a chance to let Märklin CS2 upgrade when the new CS3 will soon be on the market.
Otherwise Märklin lose money if customers fail to buy CS3 and CS2 retain upgraded after ring with more new extras to control.
Märklins new insider model VT95 comes with more than 16 functions to control,but not with CS2.
Then the blade is actually misprinted and it should be 60216 instead.
I believe Märklin will not upgrade CS2,when the new CS3 is soon outside in the market.
If Märklin be smart business company,they focus on the new CS3.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline steventrain  
#12 Posted : 02 June 2016 21:07:10(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Now on Marklin database , Functions same as above.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline waorb  
#13 Posted : 02 June 2016 21:21:04(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Thanks Steven.

So, the 60215 owners need to choose 16 of 21 available functions to be on the main screen?

Cheers,

Walter
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 02 June 2016 22:43:11(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Steven.

So, the 60215 owners need to choose 16 of 21 available functions to be on the main screen?

Cheers,

Walter


Despite Goofys protestations above I believe the cs2 will have an update that will enable 32 functions for the mSD/3 decoders. If the cs3 isn't already out by the time the VT95 is produced I would suggest the first item produced with an mfx decoder will precipitate the release of a cs2 update with 32 functions.

The cs3 software will be a development of the cs2 software. These sort of products always build on previous software versions even when things like the display seem to be very different. Look at your smartphone, the software in that has been developed over many years and versions of the phone. They cannot afford to produce a totally new version every generation of phone. So it is with the marklin controllers.
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 02 June 2016 23:01:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
So, the 60215 owners need to choose 16 of 21 available functions to be on the main screen?
The product database shows 21 functions for "central station".
Does that mean that all central stations, including 60212. will support 21 functions?
Or is it just märklin documentation on the usual level of accuracy?

Time will tell. I'll just wait till the stuff was shipped.


The track format processor of 60213/4/5 already supports 29 functions for DCC - they just have to update the TFP for 32 mfx functions and the GUI for 32 functions.
Sounds like a small change.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 04 June 2016 01:23:33(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

The track format processor of 60213/4/5 already supports 29 functions for DCC - they just have to update the TFP for 32 mfx functions and the GUI for 32 functions.
Sounds like a small change.

That sounds like less than one day of work for me, so say two days judging against my normal optimism. BigGrin

But at my company it would also mean lots of other time/money would have to be spent. Proposals for the changes, cost estimates, management approvals and meetings, metrics and incremental and final reviews. All of that makes even doing minor changes expensive.

To make matters worse, to justify it to management you would have to show a bottom line benefit or they just don't care IMO. All large companies seem to work that way anymore, so I imagine that applies to Marklin as well.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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H0
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 04 June 2016 07:51:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
But at my company it would also mean lots of other time/money would have to be spent. Proposals for the changes, cost estimates, management approvals and meetings, metrics and incremental and final reviews. All of that makes even doing minor changes expensive.
Märklin as we know it will keep the overhead small: they won't update the help page in the CS2, they will not update the manual, they will not update the website or the product database.

The customers want it.
The management may not want it to keep a big (?) incentive for the CS3. The management may want it to keep CS2 buyers happy and to make new locos more attractive for CS2 owners.

The overhead of testing and publishing is much the same for small and big changes. The question is do they have other changes/improvements that go with it?
The CS2 has many bugs that have been discovered years ago. Would be nice to get a final release that fixes the known bugs - or at least some of them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline dickinsonj  
#18 Posted : 04 June 2016 13:01:38(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

The customers want it.
The management may want it to keep CS2 buyers happy and to make new locos more attractive for CS2 owners.
Would be nice to get a final release that fixes the known bugs - or at least some of them.

I would very much like to see updates done for the CS2, including the known bug fixes. I also agree that it should not be that hard for them to do it, if done right. It would make a lot of sense to keep the CS2 relevant and I agree that it would probably help them sell us more new loks.

I guess we will just have to wait and hope.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#19 Posted : 04 June 2016 19:06:25(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
But at my company it would also mean lots of other time/money would have to be spent. Proposals for the changes, cost estimates, management approvals and meetings, metrics and incremental and final reviews. All of that makes even doing minor changes expensive.
Märklin as we know it will keep the overhead small: they won't update the help page in the CS2, they will not update the manual, they will not update the website or the product database.

The customers want it.
The management may not want it to keep a big (?) incentive for the CS3. The management may want it to keep CS2 buyers happy and to make new locos more attractive for CS2 owners.

The overhead of testing and publishing is much the same for small and big changes. The question is do they have other changes/improvements that go with it?
The CS2 has many bugs that have been discovered years ago. Would be nice to get a final release that fixes the known bugs - or at least some of them.


I suspect most of the effort is going into the cs3, and whatever can be easily ported back to the cs2 is happening to keep the existing customers happy. But more to the point, in porting the software to the cs3, hopefully they are fixing a bunch of long term bugs as they go ... BigGrin
Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 05 June 2016 12:32:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Irrespective of which controller can and can't use them, how do people feel about that many functions?

It seems to me that eight of the functions quoted are trivial and hardly worth having. Four are labelled as "Surrounding sounds" and four as "Dialog" (sic.)

Are they just trying to sell us stuff that nobody needs or wants?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 05 June 2016 13:16:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Irrespective of which controller can and can't use them, how do people feel about that many functions?
We discussed that in several threads in the past few years - and I don't expect new results this time.

Ask 100 MRR fans to select the 16 most attractive functions out of 29 or 32 functions and you'll get many different answers.

With 32 functions in the decoder and 32 functions in the controller, everybody can use the favourite functions without hassle. And in most cases about 8 functions will be used frequently. More functions are nice to impress visitors.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#22 Posted : 05 June 2016 21:14:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
When I first heard the cs1 was going to have 16 functions I wondered how they would fill them all .. Confused

Offline H0  
#23 Posted : 05 June 2016 22:32:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
One of the first mfx models was a Big Boy with 16 functions. So it didn't take long to bring 16 functions to the limit.
I had to get rid of one of the default sounds in order to get a free function key for shunting mode. It's always nice if new locos have one or more unused function keys left.

I have locos I converted with MSD where some keys play different sounds depending on the direction - one way to work around the 16 key limitation, but not easy to remember.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline waorb  
#24 Posted : 06 June 2016 15:30:59(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I have locos I converted with MSD where some keys play different sounds depending on the direction - one way to work around the 16 key limitation, but not easy to remember.

A-ha.

This could be a good explanation to have more than 16 available sounds...

If the loco is running, the whistle is one, if it's stopped, another... same for the direction of travel.

Good point.

Cheers,

Walter


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