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Offline Tiki734  
#1 Posted : 28 May 2016 06:13:27(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Hi
Could someone scan a page of the very rare pre war export catalogue for the UK market. It has all the LNER and LMS items illustrated. I'm mainly interested in the starter sets with a R800LMS and if they sold it with coaches.
Thanks
Roger
Offline steventrain  
#2 Posted : 28 May 2016 13:31:03(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
It is LNER/LMS Version showing in the 1938 Catalogue English edition only but very rare item and not easy to find.

Catalogue German edition do have most Germany railways but not included LMS/LNER.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#3 Posted : 28 May 2016 23:04:08(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
If paying full price be careful buying from people listing rare items when they don't have the proper railway background and the only other stuff they sell is electronic junk.
Offline Roger Baker  
#4 Posted : 28 May 2016 23:43:36(UTC)
Roger Baker


Joined: 26/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Ashbury, Swindon
Hi Roger

I could send you a photo (my scanner is defunct at the moment) but not sure how to add an attachment. Could you guide me through the process please. Photo is 5+mb.

Roger B
Offline Tiki734  
#5 Posted : 29 May 2016 02:42:59(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Roger B
If you reply to this post you will see what looks like a paper clip in the 8th box above where you are typing. Press that and it will prompt you to upload new file. Go to where the photo is stored and attach. Hopefully this will help. I have a copy of the 1938 catalogue and the locos UK export locos are shown there. But Marklin produced a small 4 page catalogue which from memory only shows the UK items. It included the starter sets with loco and coaches.
Roger
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#6 Posted : 29 May 2016 02:49:09(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by: Roger Baker Go to Quoted Post
Hi Roger

I could send you a photo (my scanner is defunct at the moment) but not sure how to add an attachment. Could you guide me through the process please. Photo is 5+mb.

Roger B



If you put it here using the "post reply" not the "quick reply" you'll see these icons at the top, press the paper clip and that should give you the option to upload.zzzz.JPG

Offline Roger Baker  
#7 Posted : 29 May 2016 11:38:14(UTC)
Roger Baker


Joined: 26/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Ashbury, Swindon
P1060936.JPG

Hope I've done this correctly! Is this the catalogue and page you are after?

Roger B
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Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 29 May 2016 12:10:53(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Tiki734 Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Could someone scan a page of the very rare pre war export catalogue for the UK market. It has all the LNER and LMS items illustrated. I'm mainly interested in the starter sets with a R800LMS and if they sold it with coaches.
Thanks
Roger


Hi Roger,

Can't help with the catalogue scan (I'd love one too) but over the years I've been capturing an archive of interesting starter sets when I see them on Ebay etc and I have some images of set R865LNE which may give some clues....

I hope they are interesting and helpful. I'm sure more info will come to light from others here.

Regards

Steve
NZ

R865LNE4.jpgR865LNE1.jpgR865LNE3.jpgR865LNE5.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 29 May 2016 12:17:06(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Roger Baker Go to Quoted Post


Hope I've done this correctly! Is this the catalogue and page you are after?

Roger B


Yes you did it perfectly, I've resized so that it can be viewed in the thread for the benefit of others ThumpUp

Exactly what year is it from?

Steve

LMS-193x.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Tiki734  
#10 Posted : 29 May 2016 13:20:15(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Roger B
That's exactly what I was after. This is great aspect of this user group that we have so much knowledge in numbers. Thanks Steve for the photos its an interesting set and I would guess that there are not too many of them left. The loco in this particular set looks a little too light green.
Roger B
What else is in this catalogue of interest or not included in the standard 1938 catalogue. If it would not be asking too much could you photo the rest of the catalogue. If nothing else I would love to have a set of photos for reference. If you want confirm the date for Steve on normally the first or second page bottom will be the printers date and production numbers. The last 4 digits are the printing month and year.
Many thanks
Roger
Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 29 May 2016 13:35:50(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Marklin 1938 catalogue - only 1,000 printed in 1938.

See 2nd image for LMS and LNER.

http://shop.marklinstop....e=en&products_id=188

But it was sold.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#12 Posted : 29 May 2016 22:42:53(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Hello friends,

I have a few original examples of this catalog. If known members of this form want scans, please email or direct message me and I will send you the scans of the catalog. Here's 2 relevant catalogs:

http://new-shop.marklins...-ref-no-6149-fl-lmslner/

and

http://new-shop.marklins...n-market-with-pricelist/

I don't know of a 4-page brochure catalog, I only know these 2 catalogs, first the 1938 black and white catalog strictly for the British market. Only 1,000 originally printed. Then the black and white 1937 catalog either for American or British market.

By the way, that R 865 LNER set does not look original. As noted, the green color is not correct and the label stamping (blue) is also incorrect.

Best wishes,

Paul
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Offline Roger Baker  
#13 Posted : 29 May 2016 23:01:19(UTC)
Roger Baker


Joined: 26/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Ashbury, Swindon
What an interesting exercise comparing the German and English versions of this catalogue. Firstly an explanation. I have the 1938 German small catalogue which is referenced OYN 838 MP28D on the cover, a complete photocopy of the English equivalent which is referenced 61/49 FL on the cover and an original version of this but unfortunately missing the front cover (but can't complain as I bought it in a toy fair here in the UK for a fiver!) In all respects this genuine one is exactly the same as the photocopy. Not sure what the reference is as it seems so different to all the other catalogues of the era. Notably the catalogue that was for sale (see earlier link) had a '3' on the cover and no reference so how genuine was it I wonder?
Managed to get my scanner working so attached are copies, they are in greyscale which seemed OK to do as the original is all black and white which is the first significant difference between the English and German version which is in colour. Others are:
The obvious - it is in English not German and prices are in shillings and pence
The illustrations are some 5% smaller in the English catalogue and there are no footers
Pages 8 & 9 in the English version illustrate the E800LMS and the HR700LNER and listed in the text are the other LMS and LNER versions of the locos.
Page 10 - the 272 controller is a different version
Pages 11, 12 & 13 are total different, table comparing the 700 and 800 series set numbers is on page 13 in the English catalogue and split between pages 11 & 12 in the German.
Understandably coach 351F is not included on page 15 of the English catalogue!
On page 16 372 is illustrated with logs in the English catalogue and without in the German.
English signals are included on page 18
Additional track plans are illustrated on page 24 (back cover) of the English version instead of the 753 and 763 German text handbooks.
And of course the text is rearranged.
I'm sure to have missed other changes so happy hunting.
If there is any set you would like a photo of let me know I may be able to provide one.

Roger BP1060935.JPG img023.pdf (3,265kb) downloaded 44 time(s). img022.pdf (3,172kb) downloaded 36 time(s). img025.pdf (3,794kb) downloaded 33 time(s). img032.pdf (3,524kb) downloaded 27 time(s). img024.pdf (3,889kb) downloaded 30 time(s). img021.pdf (5,358kb) downloaded 27 time(s). img027.pdf (3,837kb) downloaded 24 time(s). img029.pdf (3,337kb) downloaded 20 time(s). img028.pdf (4,121kb) downloaded 30 time(s). img031.pdf (3,734kb) downloaded 27 time(s). img030.pdf (4,546kb) downloaded 31 time(s).




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Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 29 May 2016 23:56:55(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Roger Baker Go to Quoted Post
What an interesting exercise comparing the German and English versions of this catalogue. Firstly an explanation. I have the 1938 German small catalogue which is referenced OYN 838 MP28D on the cover, a complete photocopy of the English equivalent which is referenced 61/49 FL on the cover and an original version of this but unfortunately missing the front cover (but can't complain as I bought it in a toy fair here in the UK for a fiver!) In all respects this genuine one is exactly the same as the photocopy. Not sure what the reference is as it seems so different to all the other catalogues of the era. Notably the catalogue that was for sale (see earlier link) had a '3' on the cover and no reference so how genuine was it I wonder?
Managed to get my scanner working so attached are copies, they are in greyscale which seemed OK to do as the original is all black and white which is the first significant difference between the English and German version which is in colour. Others are:
The obvious - it is in English not German and prices are in shillings and pence
The illustrations are some 5% smaller in the English catalogue and there are no footers
Pages 8 & 9 in the English version illustrate the E800LMS and the HR700LNER and listed in the text are the other LMS and LNER versions of the locos.
Page 10 - the 272 controller is a different version
Pages 11, 12 & 13 are total different, table comparing the 700 and 800 series set numbers is on page 13 in the English catalogue and split between pages 11 & 12 in the German.
Understandably coach 351F is not included on page 15 of the English catalogue!
On page 16 372 is illustrated with logs in the English catalogue and without in the German.
English signals are included on page 18
Additional track plans are illustrated on page 24 (back cover) of the English version instead of the 753 and 763 German text handbooks.
And of course the text is rearranged.
I'm sure to have missed other changes so happy hunting.
If there is any set you would like a photo of let me know I may be able to provide one.

Roger B



Thanks for the images Roger, very helpful. I will add that some years ago I had the pleasure of being hosted by Roger & family when I visited the UK and saw first-hand some examples of his collection of start sets and other Marklin memorabilia, to say I was impressed would be an understatement. I cannot wait for the opportunity to revisit if Nadine and I manage to make it over there.

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline cookee_nz  
#15 Posted : 30 May 2016 00:02:23(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Tiki734 Go to Quoted Post
Roger B
That's exactly what I was after. This is great aspect of this user group that we have so much knowledge in numbers. Thanks Steve for the photos its an interesting set and I would guess that there are not too many of them left. The loco in this particular set looks a little too light green.
Roger B
What else is in this catalogue of interest or not included in the standard 1938 catalogue. If it would not be asking too much could you photo the rest of the catalogue. If nothing else I would love to have a set of photos for reference. If you want confirm the date for Steve on normally the first or second page bottom will be the printers date and production numbers. The last 4 digits are the printing month and year.
Many thanks
Roger


Re the set, yes it's very difficult to verify the authenticity or not of items like this, especially with the number of forgeries on the market.

And there's also the complications of different lighting used, the camera etc that could easily make a fake item look genuine, and vice-versa. But as Paul pointed out, other subtle things such as the colour of the box stamp might be just the thing to swing doubt one way or the other. If indeed a fake perhaps the colour of the label stamp was deliberate on the part of the forger to ensure that they would always spot their own work but not be so obvious to an inexperienced collector.

Always interesting debating these points BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Tiki734  
#16 Posted : 30 May 2016 06:50:05(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Roger B
I've downloaded all the attachments and I think you missed pages 12 and 13 or am I mistaken. I would live to see some photos of your starter sets. I've got about 20 but none pre war. I noticed that Marklin produced a set for the E700. That would be like winning lotto if one ever came up.
Roger
Offline Nigel Packer  
#17 Posted : 30 May 2016 11:30:43(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
I scanned my own (rather fragile) copy of this catalogue, and made it a single PDF.


Marklin 1938 00 61-49 FL GB.pdf (7,925kb) downloaded 72 time(s).


Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#18 Posted : 30 May 2016 16:04:56(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Originally Posted by: Tiki734 Go to Quoted Post
Roger B
... I noticed that Marklin produced a set for the E700. That would be like winning lotto if one ever came up.
Roger


Hi Roger,

Correct, but I think you mean the E800 British locomotive. This is set E842LMS. The E700 was a prototype locomotive, which was similar to the R 700 locomotive but with a lenghtened body.

Paul

Offline cookee_nz  
#19 Posted : 31 May 2016 21:28:42(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi all,

So we don't get too far off-track from this one, I've created a new topic regarding the Ebay auction... https://www.marklin-user...NER---LMS-Set-on-Ebay-Au

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Roger Baker  
#20 Posted : 31 May 2016 23:10:14(UTC)
Roger Baker


Joined: 26/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Ashbury, Swindon
Roger

Last year at Ian Houston's get-together I put on a small display of LMS and LNER sets, locos and trucks. Don't know whether photos were posted on the forum at the time, in case they weren't here they are. The E842LMS set is of my own making, all the parts are genuine and the box is a 1938 version bought on eBay but it came without a label and the dividers which I have added. I've sent photos of the completed item to a collector in The Netherlands who is the only person I know who has seen a genuine set, he confirmed that, as far as he could tell, this was an accurate reproduction.

Roger B
P1030062.JPGP1030064.JPGP1030063.JPGP1030060.JPG
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#21 Posted : 01 June 2016 19:44:15(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Hello Roger,

Beautiful sets! The E 842 LMS set certainly is one of the rarest! I agree the configuration of the box is correct, when 4 coaches are sold together. I do have a strong feeling, however, that it was common to sell with only 3 x 342 LMS coaches (without the EB coach with lighting as the catalog lists). Here in the book Miroir de son temps (https://www.amazon.com/M%C3%A4rklin-Miroir-de-son-temps/dp/2884680152) there is also a photo of such a set, whether was originally like this I do not know.

E842LMS

From my own experience I've seen collections from original owners that bought the set in the UK with only the 3 coaches so I presume it was common instead of the complete 4 coaches. Once again beautiful sets you have!

Best wishes,

Paul
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