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Offline gwolski  
#1 Posted : 27 May 2016 20:43:14(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
My 2 rail to 3 rail conversion of non-Marklin locomotives and rolling stock has gone much smoother lately. I found that I was essentially over thinking the conversion process and making it much harder than it needed to be.

Case in point - I'm converting a Liliput L133999 SBB FLIRT set to 3 rail operation. The set has pages of excellent wiring diagrams showing both the AC and DC version wiring. I spent hours poring over the documentation over several weeks, and ultimately postponed the conversion thinking that it was extremely complicated.

Recently, my epiphany has been simple but profound in effect. I'm not converting from DC to AC - no plans to run on either in analog mode, ever. I'm converting from 2 rail digital to 3 rail digital. Once I let that sink in, I found my conversions to be much simpler. I don't need AC specific circuitry, I just need to re-route wiring from right side pickups to join the left side pickups. I tie the slider wiring into the right side wiring. Conversion done. Well, almost.

Now the most difficult part is installation of the slider/schliefer. In some cases, the installation point is already there (for example, the driving trailer in my Roco 64111 CD RailJet set). In other cases, the gear box cover part with slider mount can be ordered and installed. Worst case, I have to install the slider in a "best fit" spot.

With this method, I was easily able to convert my Jouef X73500 railcars to 3 rail. I epoxied a slider on a bogey, and moved right hand pickup wires on the circuit board to join the left hand wires. The slider pickup wire was soldered to the right hand connection on the board.

My easiest conversion relied on a much simpler method - swap bodies. I ordered a Roco PKP EU44 body shell from ebay, then I ordered a 3 rail Roco Taurus locomotive that matched my loco. Pop off and replace the body shell - conversion done!

Again, this may not work for you if you want to be able to run on analog AC.

I'll share some of my pics if anyone finds them useful. Oh, and the FLIRT set? Looks like I can make use of the panto switch and simply solder the slider connection to the panto plate on the coach circuit board. No other wiring changes needed. Wow - way simpler than what I was trying to do before.

Gene

Jouef X73500 railcars - completed
Jouef X72500 railcars - being converted
Jouef Z24500 railcars - being converted

Vitrains Minuetto railcar - being converted

Roco PKP EU44 Husarz loco - completed
Roco PKP EU 44 T-Mobile loco - loco on order, 3 rail gear box plate on order
Roco CD RailJet Taurus loco - loco on order, 3 rail gear box plate on order
Roco CD RailJet driving trailer (64111 set) - complete

Piko PKP SU45 diesel loco - completed
Piko PKP EP07 electric loco - being converted

Liliput 133999 SBB FLIRT - being converted
Lima HL1660 SBB Pendolino - being converted

Gene Wolski
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Offline baggio  
#2 Posted : 28 May 2016 02:47:50(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Why did you decide to switch? Confused

Just curious.
Offline gwolski  
#3 Posted : 28 May 2016 04:18:06(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Why did you decide to switch? Confused

Just curious.


No switch - my track is all Marklin C track so 3 rail is the house standard. I convert 2 rail locos when there is no 3 rail version or if the 3 rail version isn't available. Does that make sense?
Gene Wolski
Offline baggio  
#4 Posted : 28 May 2016 06:01:25(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
Does that make sense?


Yes, thank you.

Have you ever thought of having both systems run one inside the other or next to each other? This way you would not have to spend a lot of money in conversions. I find that DC locos are much cheaper than Marklin locos, which don't come in analogue.
Offline gwolski  
#5 Posted : 28 May 2016 23:41:41(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
Does that make sense?


Yes, thank you.

Have you ever thought of having both systems run one inside the other or next to each other? This way you would not have to spend a lot of money in conversions. I find that DC locos are much cheaper than Marklin locos, which don't come in analogue.


I find the conversions to be very inexpensive - typically much less than the difference in cost between the 2 rail and 3 rail version (if available). I have plenty of Marklin C track and don't really want to invest in more track.

Ideally I'd buy the 3 rail version of everything I want. In reality, most are only available in 2 rail. I also like the variety and fidelity of some of the non-Marklin brands (my PKP coaches by Acme for example).

Cheers!

Gene Wolski
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#6 Posted : 29 May 2016 00:16:00(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Sounds very interesting.
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
I'll share some of my pics if anyone finds them useful. ...

Jouef X73500 railcars - completed
Jouef X72500 railcars - being converted
Jouef Z24500 railcars - being converted

Vitrains Minuetto railcar - being converted

Roco PKP EU44 Husarz loco - completed
Roco PKP EU 44 T-Mobile loco - loco on order, 3 rail gear box plate on order
Roco CD RailJet Taurus loco - loco on order, 3 rail gear box plate on order
Roco CD RailJet driving trailer (64111 set) - complete

Piko PKP SU45 diesel loco - completed
Piko PKP EP07 electric loco - being converted

Liliput 133999 SBB FLIRT - being converted
Lima HL1660 SBB Pendolino - being converted
Did you intend to post the photos or is this "only" the (impressive) list of your conversions?
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Offline gwolski  
#7 Posted : 29 May 2016 02:23:13(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Did you intend to post the photos or is this "only" the (impressive) list of your conversions?

I'll gladly share! I'm away for the holiday weekend here in the US, but I'll post pics as soon as I return on Monday.
Gene Wolski
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Offline gwolski  
#8 Posted : 30 May 2016 22:52:20(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Jouef X73500 Diesel Railcar conversion



I have 3 of these great looking railcars, and the conversion from 2 rail to 3 rail is very simple. Here's a pic of a short Marklin slider mounted on the rear bogey. I removed the insulator section from the slider to give it a bit more vertical movement. I've had good results with both CA and epoxy in attaching the slider. As with all sliders, ensure the slider is centered and straight (aligned with the long axis of the loco). Misalignment can easily cause power dropouts. Also ensure the slider does not bump the wheels or body - vertical movement should be unhindered. I keep a box of various sliders to see which is the best fit for the application.



Remove the two screws holding the PCB in place, and put them in a safe place. Using a hobby knife, slice the plastic nubs holding the other end of the PCB horizontally to free the PCB. The PCB will come free – you may have to unwind the black wires a bit to get some slack.



The right wheels are connected to the PCB at the points marked TRK-R. Unsolder these connections, and solder the wires to the respective left wheel connection points (TRK=L). Now run the pickup shoe connection wire up through the hole in the bogey and solder to the (now unconnected) rear right wheel PCB connection (TRK-R).



I also had to trim one of the seats to allow the decoder to sit horizontal. In this railcar, I installed a sound decoder with the speaker tucked in behind the driver's seat.



Reattach the PCB with the two screws removed at the beginning. Before reattaching the body shell, test the unit on your programming track to verify operation and assign an address. Note: if using a LokSound decoder, you will need to assign AUX1 to an available function key to access the interior lighting. Don’t forget to write any changes to the decoder!

Now is also the time to add any scale size passengers prior to reinstalling the body shell. Your X73500 railcar is now ready for 3 rail operation!

Next up is my Roco 64111 CD RailJet driving trailer #27.
Gene Wolski
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Offline gwolski  
#9 Posted : 31 May 2016 15:25:45(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Roco 64111 CD RailJet - driving trailer #27

My daughter and i rode this train from Prague to Vienna last year, so I was really excited to see Roco release the loco and cars. Set 64111 includes the driving trailer, so in this post we'll convert it from 2 rail to 3 rail. Overall the conversion is fairly simple (mounting slider and moving some wires).



Tools needed:
  • Magnifier (a must for those of us over 50
  • Soldering Station
  • Multimeter
  • Screwdriver
  • tweezers


First, remove the body shell by carefully spreading the sides at the frame line. Set the shell aside in a safe place while you work on the frame.



Flip over the frame and remove the center cover on the bogey underneath the cab. It pops out with a little pressure on on side where the wires come out. De-solder the wires to the contact strips (keep the brown wire in place), and remove the brass wheel pickup strips. Fit the Roco slider onto the bogey - you will see the central screw hole and two protruding posts that fit into the slider (makes alignment a breeze!). Screw down the slider and solder the brown pickup wire to the slider.



Flip over the frame and let's look at the PCB and soldering pads. We're going to do the following:
  • De-solder the black wire attached to the removed brass contact
  • De-solder the brown wire going to the front truck and solder to the black wire pad you just freed up
  • Use your multimeter to verify the wheel/wire and slider/wire connections are not shorted
  • Note: Fine pointed tweezers and the magnifier REALLY help with this




When in doubt, always refer back to the decoder pinouts. Here is the PluX16 pinout which shows where Track L and R should connect. Note - the connector is inverted in the photo below. If you're wondering, yes, I did cross up my Lefts and Rights here. Normally I wire the slider to track Right. Not a problem since direction can be adjusted in the decoder programming.



At this point, we're almost done! You have both front wheel pickups providing Left track power and the slider providing Right track power. You can check your connections by using the above PluX pinout diagram.

UPDATE:

I checked the PCB with my multimeter, and F1 appears to be connected to the cab lighting. F2 appears to be pulled out to the two solder pads shown below.



I decided to install the ESU 50700 lighting board. As you can see in the photo, I did cut off the last two LEDs as well as the tail lights (didn't need them). I connected one of the brown wires to one of the F2 solder pads and the other brown wire to a PLUS solder pad. I will post another conversion for the interior lighting of the entire set at a later date.



Install your decoder, then proceed to test and configure the decoder prior to reinstalling the body shell. Don't forget to add plastic passengers if you so desire!

Next 3 rail conversion will be my 62599 PKP EU44 Husarz electric locomotive.

Edited by user 04 June 2016 00:02:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Gene Wolski
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Offline gwolski  
#10 Posted : 31 May 2016 19:05:01(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
OK - this conversion is a bit of a cheat, but it does get the job done!

I really liked the Acme Berlin-Warszawa Express passenger coaches, so I picked up a set. Naturally, needed a loco to pull the set. Good news: Roco makes a PKP EU44 in the Husarz (Hussar) paint scheme (Roco #62599). Bad news: I can't find the 62599 loco anywhere I look. Good news: my dealers tell me it may get another run, but no promises. Bad news: I look for decals to make one, but no EU44 decals anywhere. Good news: I stumble across someone selling the body shell on ebay (a bit pricey). SOLD!



In looking at the body shell, I noticed that all the fine printing is on the body and not on the frame. I then get the idea to buy a 3 rail Roco Rh 1216 and put my PKP body shell on it.



The PKP shell fit perfectly to the 68598 chassis! I tossed the 68598 shell into the spares bin for future repairs/conversions. I also have two Piko 3 rail Taurus locos that have been stripped and ready for paint - I may try my hand at one of the PKP football schemes.



All that is left is to install the LokSound decoder and speaker.

Cheater? Maybe, but I now have one smooth running 3 rail modern PKP EU44 to pull my BWE cars. I may repeat this conversion with the new Roco 73492 loco since it will also only be issued in 2 rail. I've also ordered the AC gear box plate and slider to see if I can use those for a less expensive conversion.



I'll post more later this week as I get time to pull photos and upload.

Cheers!



Gene Wolski
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Offline gwolski  
#11 Posted : 31 May 2016 19:14:20(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Teaser for next 3 rail conversion project:



Gene Wolski
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Offline nitramretep  
#12 Posted : 31 May 2016 19:54:18(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
Impressive amount of work, good luck and keep the conversions coming!
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Offline gwolski  
#13 Posted : 31 May 2016 20:39:13(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
The Piko 96300 PKP SP-45 loco looked like a perfect fit for my dad's home layout. He's been wanting a colorful diesel loco to go with his other rolling stock (Class 03 and 216 from a starter set and a Class 212).



Conversion of this loco was very interesting since it has several features which indicate the loco and/or parts are intended for both AC and DC versions.

Remove the body shell and set aside. Flip the loco over and note which bogey has a recess for the end of a slider. I did a test fit then used CA to install a Brawa 2225 slider. I fished the slider wire up through holes in the bogey and frame to the edge of the PCB.



Next I moved the right wheel wire connections from the WR-DC to WR-AC pads. The multimeter showed that the WR-AC pads were connected to the WL pads. Perfect!



I then connected the slider wire to the WR-DC pad on the matching end of the PCB. I installed a decoder, and the loco was running perfectly!



I did see that there was a selector screw and DC and AC pads, but the loco worked (in digital operation) with the screw in either position. I didn't take time to track down what the selector did, but I'm guessing there is analog AC circuitry on the board.



I'm currently waiting on the Piko sound decoder with speaker. This is a great looking (and hopefully great sounding) loco.

Edited by user 04 June 2016 00:07:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Gene Wolski
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Offline gwolski  
#14 Posted : 01 June 2016 16:22:04(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Here's a quick update on several of my remaining conversions:

Jouef X72500 railcars - this is a two piece set which is connected by a 6 pin electrical connector. I didn't see any electrical pickups on the wheelsets on the trailing unit, however the trailing trucks have a lot of room for slider installation. That's a good thing because the driving car trucks have very little clearance under the gearboxes on the trucks. I'll know more about the installation specifics once I open up the units and trace the wiring. More to follow.

Piko PKP EP07 electric loco - the approach for this loco is similar to the SP45 in that I'll utilize the connection pads on the PCB. THe EP07 has pantographs, so I plan to connect the slider pickup wire to the pantograph connection point on the PCB. This will require moving the pantograph selection jumper. I don't think I'll need to do anything else.

Liliput L33999 SBB FLIRT - I used this as my nightmare scenario in my first post. Looks like I will also be able to leverage the pantograph connections in the FLIRT by connecting the slider to the intermediate truck and connecting the pickup wire to the pantograph bus wire. Again, the pantograph selection switch will need to be set. I was really overthinking this conversion.

Once my pics finish uploading from my phone, I'll get them uploaded to my albums and into the respective conversion page.

Please let me know if you have any questions or see a mistake in my write-up - I'll edit to make sure each one is correct.

Gene
Gene Wolski
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Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 01 June 2016 22:50:09(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
I then connected the slider wire to the WR-DC pad on the matching end of the PCB.


Should this say "AC" rather than "DC"?

You make it look so easy, I do envy you. BigGrin
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Offline gwolski  
#16 Posted : 02 June 2016 15:00:08(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
I then connected the slider wire to the WR-DC pad on the matching end of the PCB.


Should this say "AC" rather than "DC"?

You make it look so easy, I do envy you. BigGrin


The WR-DC pad is where the original right wheel pickup was connected. The right wheel pickup is disconnected and moved to the WR-AC pad (which is not connected). WR-AC connects the right hand wheels to the left hand wheels (standard 3 rail pickup for the wheels).

The slider effectively replaces the right wheel pickup - hence, the slider wire gets connected to the original right wheel pad which is WR-DC (on the slider end of the loco). The other WR-DC pad should remain unconnected.

I found it much easier to understand (and implement) when I decided to ditch analog altogether and think in terms of digital - 2 vs 3 rail. Honestly, the hardest part is fitting a slider.

Cheers!
Gene Wolski
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#17 Posted : 02 June 2016 18:15:03(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
Honestly, the hardest part is fitting a slider.
Oh yes. My interest stems from fact that I converted an analogue H0 scale Kato two-rail loco to digital "three-rail AC" once. It is a US prototype Alco RS diesel switcher with two powered bogies (or trucks). I fitted the middle slider under the gearbox of one truck by "embedding" it after grinding down the gearbox cover as much as possible. This works well on normal track, but the loco is prone to derailing on turnouts. Sporting US style RP25 wheel sets with the small wheel flanges exacerbates the situation (with Maerklin pizza cutters it would probably stay on the track). So either I disable and remove one of the gear boxes to have more room for the slider, or I put a slider under a Maerklin car permanently coupled to the loco. Neither solution appeals to me though.

Edited by user 03 June 2016 12:42:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 02 June 2016 18:28:35(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Adding a slider is easiest where the loco is also available for 3-rail. Usually in these cases there is a mounting point already available on the bogie or locomotive frame.

I converted a lima SNCF BB7200 very easily. The bogie actually had a hole for the screw where I wanted to mount the slider. I added an old decoder I had available and it now works perfectly on my Marklin layout.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline gwolski  
#19 Posted : 02 June 2016 20:12:26(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Adding a slider is easiest where the loco is also available for 3-rail. Usually in these cases there is a mounting point already available on the bogie or locomotive frame..


Absolutely the best case! I was fortunate this was the case with the Roco driving trailer I documented above. My Piko PKP EP07 is one of those without a great place to install the slider - no mount or posts. This loco will need a longer slider to clear the two gearbox openings. This loco was only offered in DC, so there is no AC gearbox cover to swap out.

This is one of the reasons it's a good idea to have multiple sliders on hand to try. You may find one fits better than another on the given loco. Key points include not bumping the wheels, frame, or other parts on the underframe when the truck swivels. The other tricky part is getting the vertical space to prevent derailing or loss of contact over crossings and turnouts. Consider adding a second slider on longer railcars (adds additional pickup) or even the capacitor (power pack) style solutions.

Gene Wolski
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Offline gwolski  
#20 Posted : 02 June 2016 20:30:17(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
I think we've exposed that the "secrets" of a successful conversion aren't really secret:

  • Slider mounting is absolutely key to maximizing pickup and minimizing derails
  • clean wiring (use heatshrink to cover joints) and good solder joints (using good soldering station)
  • proper decoder installation - correctly sized and correctly connected
  • tuning/configuring your decoder - vital to getting the best performance from your motor/decoder combination
Gene Wolski
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#21 Posted : 03 June 2016 18:09:41(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

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Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Agreed 100% on the electronics. If running digital that part is easy.

Now regarding the sliders, I've had nothing but nightmare stories. As everyone mentioned if there is a 3 rail option that is one scenario, but if there isn't they are a disaster and certain death over marklin switch pukos. For that reason I'll add a question here: does anyone know what the lowest profile slider out there is? I've been trying to convert a Rivarossi railcar forever (different livery, but this set: http://www.laborsadeltre...li_prodotto.php?id=7519) and I can't get any standard marklin shoe to fit...
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline gwolski  
#22 Posted : 03 June 2016 19:18:06(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Agreed 100% on the electronics. If running digital that part is easy.

Now regarding the sliders, I've had nothing but nightmare stories. As everyone mentioned if there is a 3 rail option that is one scenario, but if there isn't they are a disaster and certain death over marklin switch pukos. For that reason I'll add a question here: does anyone know what the lowest profile slider out there is? I've been trying to convert a Rivarossi railcar forever (different livery, but this set: http://www.laborsadeltre...li_prodotto.php?id=7519) and I can't get any standard marklin shoe to fit...


Have you tried the Brawa 2225 slider? I'll measure my next one when it comes in, but it seems thinner than most. I've also removed the insulator to gain a little extra vertical clearance.
Gene Wolski
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#23 Posted : 03 June 2016 21:02:51(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Now regarding the sliders, I've had nothing but nightmare stories. As everyone mentioned if there is a 3 rail option that is one scenario, but if there isn't they are a disaster and certain death over marklin switch pukos.
Amen to that. Regarding a flat pick up shoe, I worked with IBERTREN art. 9001. Very flat, but not flat enough to prevent above scenario.
Offline waltklatt  
#24 Posted : 03 June 2016 22:14:28(UTC)
waltklatt

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 138
What about a slider from the small passenger cars (for the interior light option)? The type that look like a cantilever.
Does the pick up have to fit on the bogie within the wheels?
How about after the first bogie?
Just a thought.
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#25 Posted : 03 June 2016 22:46:04(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
All good suggestions- I'll have to dive in. No room to grind on these trucks, so a crafty slider or some serious engineering are my only options I think...
SBB Era 2-5
Offline jvuye  
#26 Posted : 04 June 2016 19:54:42(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
All good suggestions- I'll have to dive in. No room to grind on these trucks, so a crafty slider or some serious engineering are my only options I think...


Yes, a subject near and dear to my heart: I love US locos, and there are few in 3 rail, so I have done a lot of Kato, Athearn, etc. conversions.
After trying many different solutions, I now very simply disable one of the power bogie, which give me plenty of space for the slider.
Then , on the lathe, I machine grooves for adherence tires on all 4 remaining power bogie wheels.
Of course RP 25 wheel can be a problem, but not always.
Some Kato loco have stayed on tehir original wheels, others had to be replaced , mostly by re-use of Roco wheels I recover from my stock.
Thso often requires machining adapter sleeves to fit them on the original axles.
Primordial is to adjust the inner spacing to 13.8 mm .
I have posted some of these conversions many moons ago.
But for any specifics, I'll be glad to propose solutions based on the work performed on my own "fleet"..
Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline gwolski  
#27 Posted : 05 June 2016 23:01:19(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Next up is my Piko 96365 PKP EP07-198 electric locomotive. I really like this loco and have some Acme PKP passenger coaches for it to pull. I've been very pleased with Piko's Expert line locomotives, and this is no exception.



This model was only offered in 2 rail. In fact, the only 3 rail Piko PKP loco I've seen is the EU45-205 (#57860). PKP recently ordered 15 of the Vectron E-locos from Siemens, and Piko does offer the Vectron in 3 rail, but not in PKP. I did contact them and request that they produce it in the new PKP EU46 livery. We'll see what happens. Just found out that Marklin is also offering the Class 193 Vectron e-loco (#36190 and #36193). I'm guessing I won't see it in PKP livery either, but then it's just a paint job conversion!



Back to conversion -> no surprise - the loco does not have any slider mounting provisions. If you look closely at the truck, there does appear to be a slight cutout on each end which will work in my favor for fitting a slider.



After pulling my slider collection out and test fitting, it does appear that this longer Roco slider will fit. The ends fit into the slots mentioned earlier, and there appears to be enough clearance above the protruding gears to be able to mount the slider.



Wiring Changes



Similar to the SP45 conversion, move the WR-DC wires to the WR-AC pads. You could then solder the slider pickup wire to the WR-DC pad. I'm using the Panto plate instead, so the pickup wire goes there, and the jumper is set to OTW. Either method should work well as long as the jumper is set correctly.



UPDATE: runs great on the test track! Next step is to run it through various turnouts to see how the slider performs.


Next up - time to tackle the Liliput L133999 SBB FLIRT set. ThumpUp

Edited by user 08 June 2016 02:13:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Gene Wolski
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Offline Gregzim  
#28 Posted : 11 June 2016 12:17:58(UTC)
Gregzim

Australia   
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I am finding this thread to be really useful thanks. I switched from 2 rail to 3 rail mid 90's and have a reasonable collection of Roco and HAG electric locos that I want to convert.

I am not following the - "move wires from WR-DC to WR-AC bit though. Why not just take a wire from one side (lets say RH hand side) off its pickup and solder it to the slider? I only run digital via Ecos - so can run 3 rail on DCC and given all the locos started out life as DC - why is there a need to touch the PCB end of things? I would really appreciate an understanding of this bit please.

Regards

Greg
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GLI
Offline gwolski  
#29 Posted : 11 June 2016 17:49:31(UTC)
gwolski

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Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: Gregzim Go to Quoted Post
I am finding this thread to be really useful thanks. I switched from 2 rail to 3 rail mid 90's and have a reasonable collection of Roco and HAG electric locos that I want to convert.

I am not following the - "move wires from WR-DC to WR-AC bit though. Why not just take a wire from one side (lets say RH hand side) off its pickup and solder it to the slider? I only run digital via Ecos - so can run 3 rail on DCC and given all the locos started out life as DC - why is there a need to touch the PCB end of things? I would really appreciate an understanding of this bit please.

Regards

Greg


Great point - both approaches are equally valid. I chose to document the approach I prefer for a couple of reasons. First, I normally find it much easier to move the wire at the PCB end than to move at the slider or pickup end (can be rather cramped working around the wheels). Second, I feel that attaching the RH side pickup to the LH side pickups gives better contact reliability. Otherwise the RH pickups are unused unless you attach another feed wire.

Whichever method you choose, do yourself a favor and document the conversion. Most conversions, if done neatly, can be easily reversed to restore the loco to it's original condition.

Does this help?
Gene Wolski
Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 11 June 2016 17:56:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Gregzim Go to Quoted Post
I am not following the - "move wires from WR-DC to WR-AC bit though. Why not just take a wire from one side (lets say RH hand side) off its pickup and solder it to the slider?
It's better to use all wheels for ground contact. You need an internal connection of both sides of wheels to make contact tracks work (used in level crossings). And to make the loco work on contact tracks.

Regards
Tom
---
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UserPostedImage
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Offline Gregzim  
#31 Posted : 12 June 2016 06:34:56(UTC)
Gregzim

Australia   
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Got it thanks. I was going to run another wire between both sides - didn't realise there were points on the PCB that were clear of what is what. (of course there is you think about it!!)

Great thread - something I have put off for years is now doable. I was put off a lot of years ago when so called service experts made such a big deal of what I was asking for and wanted to charge really stupid money to 'attempt' - I thought wow this must be really massive to do - but then recently startd to delve into the locos and couldn't see why is was a big deal and your explanation has really proved that - so once again thank you for putting this all down.

Rgds

Greg
Offline Gregzim  
#32 Posted : 13 June 2016 13:18:45(UTC)
Gregzim

Australia   
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi Again Gene

I have another question if I may? I was inside this ROCO and started to look at the overhead catenary tab coming off of the PCB. As I traced the PCB connector lines to the tab it looked to me as though it was connected to "both" left and right sides of the circuit. I thought this is weird - so I got the tester meter and put it on resistance/sound and sure enough "everything on the board beeps when I am connected to the overhead tab.

So I am thinking how does this PCB work. Then as an after thought I touch just the left side wheel circuit to the right side circuit (on the PCB) and sure enough it beeps too. - yet the right hand side wheels do 'not' connect to the left wheels when touching the wheels themselves.

So now I know I am into electronics versus electrics - so if you understand electronics would you explain how or what on the pcb shuts off these connections when power is supplied? Also given this state when there is no power - how do I tell which actual side the overhead is connected to as that is obviously the side I need the centre rail slider to go to as well. (the reason for the original test) :) (also from a forwards reverse perspective - which side is actually left and right as looking at the model both ends look exactly the same ?)

Regards

Greg
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