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Offline mike c  
#101 Posted : 23 February 2015 22:00:42(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I wonder if there is anybody who can let us know what precautions we can take with our models to protect them. For example, I have a few models (trains and other) and electronics that came with small pouches of silica gel which is supposed to control humidity. Does this help delay the onset of Zink corrosion? If yes, how long does one of these silica gel packets last and how often should they be changed?

Regards

Mike C
Offline kiwiAlan  
#102 Posted : 23 February 2015 23:43:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if there is anybody who can let us know what precautions we can take with our models to protect them. For example, I have a few models (trains and other) and electronics that came with small pouches of silica gel which is supposed to control humidity. Does this help delay the onset of Zink corrosion? If yes, how long does one of these silica gel packets last and how often should they be changed?

Regards

Mike C


Silica gel is normally supplied with indicator pellets in it as well which have a cobalt compound in them that turns blue when dry and pink when wet.

The silicagel is only useful inside a sealed package as its ability to absorb moisture is limited, it cannot do it continuously, the water has no drain to go down once absorbed.

So the way to deal with this stuff is to warm it gently until the indicators go blue, e.g. by putting it into the oven after the sunday roast has been taken out and the oven turned off. Five to ten minutes is probably enough, but check the indicator to be sure. Then put the model and the silicagel packet into a zip lock bag and remove as much of the air as possible as you seal it.

If you open the bag to show the model to someone, or run it or whatever, you really need to warm the silicagel packet again to dry it out.
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Offline Unholz  
#103 Posted : 08 May 2016 10:22:49(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
I must sadly report that my De 6/6 cat. no. 37521 (serial no. H2105926) broke apart this morning before its regular test run. It was always stored under perfect conditions and my favorite Marklin locomotive. Sad Crying
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#104 Posted : 08 May 2016 12:59:36(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
I must sadly report that my De 6/6 cat. no. 37521 (serial no. H2105926) broke apart this morning before its regular test run. It was always stored under perfect conditions and my favorite Marklin locomotive. Sad Crying


I'm sorry to hear that, Stefan. I'm afraid that most 37521s suffer from this. I had two of them do it. I fixed one of them with super-glue and it's been OK since. The chassis broke into two, where there is a weak point with thin metal.

I sent the other one back to Märklin, but they no longer have any spares for these. They replaced it with the latest version of the De 6/6 (37526), for a fee, and gave me the body parts of the 37521, as I thought I could just swap them. But, unfortunately, there have been some design and technology changes, and the parts are not inter-changeable!

Nigel

Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline MalinAC  
#105 Posted : 08 May 2016 13:19:14(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Is there still a problem with zinc pest. I was under the impression that had all been sorted since the 70s
Offline H0  
#106 Posted : 08 May 2016 14:03:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MalinAC Go to Quoted Post
Is there still a problem with zinc pest. I was under the impression that had all been sorted since the 70s
With China-made stuff you still find zincpest with items from the 21st century.

I don't have a Seetal croc and my "Märklin" US box cars and my DB hoppers are still straight (knock on wood).

Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
It was always stored under perfect conditions and my favorite Marklin locomotive. Sad Crying
Sad to hear about your loss.
Perfect storage conditions do not prevent zincpest, they just delay it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#107 Posted : 08 May 2016 14:22:27(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: MalinAC Go to Quoted Post
Is there still a problem with zinc pest. I was under the impression that had all been sorted since the 70s


Sadly, not! There was a period around 2002 when certain locos (Chinese production) had a bad case of zinc pest, both fracturing as with the 37521 and swelling and distortion with some of the Köf diesels. Most notorious models are 37521, 36805 and 36808, and some of the US wagons.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#108 Posted : 02 August 2016 23:00:49(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Hi Friends,
sent mine De6/6 in august and returned repaired after 30 days.
No warranty due to the insolvence, too old loco (even if new).
If you want to repair it the total amount is 66,94 euro + shipping.
Here the broken part replaced.
Any ideas to use them for?

UserPostedImage


Six years after I take out of the box the loco and it doesn't run.
All gears are broken, plasticpest...
Tried to replace them with the old, but also these are out of order.

UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage

All the pieces are now in a box Mad Crying

UserPostedImage

How about the new model 37526, same quality or better?
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
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Offline dominator  
#109 Posted : 04 August 2016 08:12:06(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
I don't have a nice answer for that apart from someone needs to ram it down marklin's chief executives whatever. That's bloody discusting.

Dereck

PS marklin should do what Toyota. A general recall and fix the problem That crap they have built is not fit for purpose. If they dont fix these problems they don't deserve to be in business.

You guys have to stop buying new products and let them know you are not happy.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline elfangor103  
#110 Posted : 04 August 2016 08:34:18(UTC)
elfangor103

United States   
Joined: 28/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 288
Location: New York
Im new to this thread and have never heard of Marklin products having zinc pest. I find this to be absolutely appalling that Marklin would sell products that just crumple/break apart. Marklin is not a cheap product. With customers who are brand loyal and invest their hard earned money in their products and Marklin has done nothing about it, I find it disgusting. Cursing Cursing This really turns me off to ever purchasing a new marklin model. Cursing Cursing It hurts to see the crocodile just crumble apart. Marklin has made too many mistakes in the quality of their newer products, from the brittle C-Track in the 90's and trains that crumble apart due to defects in the crystalline structure of the materials being used. I agree with the other members, these items should be recalled and marklin should make it easier to contact them for replacements free of charge.

Cursing Cursing
Daniel
Newly Started Analog Z Layout
Offline Goofy  
#111 Posted : 04 August 2016 09:02:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Sometimes can one model collapse by use it.
Märklin trains do vibration when you drive them on the track.
Even prototype trains do broken by use them.
Of course does weak points at the zink body do have possible to broken soon or later.
This swiss model do have weak points.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Unholz  
#112 Posted : 04 August 2016 10:01:21(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post

How about the new model 37526, same quality or better?


Hard to say at this moment - it is probably too early.Blink

I had one 37521 that broke apart without any prior warning just a few months ago. My second 37521 was in good shape when I opened the box the last time, but I hardly dare to place it on the track. The green Trix 22727 and the 37526 look fine so far - but ask me again in a few years...Huh

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Offline Dave Banks  
#113 Posted : 04 August 2016 23:47:13(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,025
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
I was wondering if anyone with the "know how" could reproduce that part on a 3D printer as Marklin no longer keep that spare part?
D.A.Banks
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#114 Posted : 05 August 2016 00:06:10(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
I don't want create alarm about the Märklin loco, I've many models without problem, from 1956 to 2016.
Only the green Köf and the seetal have zinkpest, but it's the first time that I see gear broken, plastic retires and breaks in a new boxed loco.
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline GlennM  
#115 Posted : 05 August 2016 02:20:16(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
I don't have a nice answer for that apart from someone needs to ram it down marklin's chief executives whatever. That's bloody discusting.

Dereck

PS marklin should do what Toyota. A general recall and fix the problem That crap they have built is not fit for purpose. If they dont fix these problems they don't deserve to be in business.

You guys have to stop buying new products and let them know you are not happy.


Originally Posted by: elfangor103 Go to Quoted Post
Im new to this thread and have never heard of Marklin products having zinc pest. I find this to be absolutely appalling that Marklin would sell products that just crumple/break apart. Marklin is not a cheap product. With customers who are brand loyal and invest their hard earned money in their products and Marklin has done nothing about it, I find it disgusting. Cursing Cursing This really turns me off to ever purchasing a new marklin model. Cursing Cursing It hurts to see the crocodile just crumble apart. Marklin has made too many mistakes in the quality of their newer products, from the brittle C-Track in the 90's and trains that crumble apart due to defects in the crystalline structure of the materials being used. I agree with the other members, these items should be recalled and marklin should make it easier to contact them for replacements free of charge.

Cursing Cursing
Daniel


I think with fairness to the current company you have to bear in mind that the Seetal croc model in question was made a number of years ago, by what was effectively a different company, that company having gone into Insolvency and bought by the new (current) owners.

I understand whilst parts remained available repairs were offered, but once there are no more parts, it becomes very difficult for the company to offer a replacement service, they may well have no contact with the original supplier to obtain any replacements. I think offering a replacement new model at a greatly reduced price is a suitable compromise.

As for zinc pest itself, it can take years for it to manifest itself, which adds to the problem. I only hope that Marklin have learnt important lessons from so called 'cheap' manufacturing options so this does not happen again in the future.
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#116 Posted : 05 August 2016 02:34:19(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
I don't want create alarm about the Märklin loco, I've many models without problem, from 1956 to 2016.
Only the green Köf and the seetal have zinkpest, but it's the first time that I see gear broken, plastic retires and breaks in a new boxed loco.


Alberto,

Sorry to hear about your Seetal croc.

As for the affected Kof, IIRC it was the Trostberg Kof model 36805, which looks like this;

UserPostedImage



Maybe it would be useful for the Forum to have a sticky with all Zinc Pest affected models, for newbies to read and be aware of so they can be careful when buying these models?

BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline Unholz  
#117 Posted : 05 August 2016 07:10:01(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post

I think with fairness to the current company you have to bear in mind that the Seetal croc model in question was made a number of years ago, by what was effectively a different company, that company having gone into Insolvency and bought by the new (current) owners.


Are you really sure regarding the accuracy of this statement? I am not familiar with German insolvency laws, but if they are only remotely similar to ours here in Switzerland, then the take-over of the stocks/shares by new (current) owners did not change the legal status of the corporation which seems to remain "Gebrüder Märklin & Cie. GmbH". (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4rklin ).

However, it may well be that the insolvency process kind of "purged/eliminated" some or even all of the liabilities towards the creditors of the past. But "a different company"? No, I don't really think so.

Perhaps our member H0 (Tom) knows more about this.
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H0
Offline H0  
#118 Posted : 05 August 2016 08:50:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
I think with fairness to the current company you have to bear in mind that the Seetal croc model in question was made a number of years ago, by what was effectively a different company, that company having gone into Insolvency and bought by the new (current) owners.
AFAIK there are two KÖF II models with zinc pest (36805 from around 2001 and 36808 from around 2005) besides the Seetal crocodile and a few freight cars (DB and US).
The owners of the company changed, but the company stayed the same AFAIK (but IANAL).
The Kingsbridge take-over was announced in 2006, so the KÖFs were made before Kingsbridge took control.

Many KÖF II suffer from broken plastic cog-wheels - at least you can still get them as spare parts.

The two-year warranty usually is over when zinc pest shows - even if it legally is the same company.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline GlennM  
#119 Posted : 05 August 2016 10:22:37(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post

I think with fairness to the current company you have to bear in mind that the Seetal croc model in question was made a number of years ago, by what was effectively a different company, that company having gone into Insolvency and bought by the new (current) owners.


Are you really sure regarding the accuracy of this statement? I am not familiar with German insolvency laws, but if they are only remotely similar to ours here in Switzerland, then the take-over of the stocks/shares by new (current) owners did not change the legal status of the corporation which seems to remain "Gebrüder Märklin & Cie. GmbH". (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4rklin ).

However, it may well be that the insolvency process kind of "purged/eliminated" some or even all of the liabilities towards the creditors of the past. But "a different company"? No, I don't really think so.

Perhaps our member H0 (Tom) knows more about this.


I did not say it was a different legal entity. I was merely referring to the corporate liabilities and were they lie following the Insolvency and subsequent sale, the corporation survives but old liabilities can remain with either former owners or former companies, this results in "effectively" a different company free from the burden of old liabilities.

Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#120 Posted : 05 August 2016 10:24:31(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
I think with fairness to the current company you have to bear in mind that the Seetal croc model in question was made a number of years ago, by what was effectively a different company, that company having gone into Insolvency and bought by the new (current) owners.
AFAIK there are two KÖF II models with zinc pest (36805 from around 2001 and 36808 from around 2005) besides the Seetal crocodile and a few freight cars (DB and US).


Tom,

Do you know the numbers of the Seetal crocs affected and the freight items affected?

BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline H0  
#121 Posted : 05 August 2016 12:05:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Do you know the numbers of the Seetal crocs affected and the freight items affected?
A warped 48450 can be seen here: http://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=121909

Several US box cars 45650ff are affected, also some Trix numbers and box cars from starter sets. Reefers are box cars. Some cabooses also had zincpest.

The zincpest croc is 37521.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline GlennM  
#122 Posted : 05 August 2016 12:55:41(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Do you know the numbers of the Seetal crocs affected and the freight items affected?
A warped 48450 can be seen here: http://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=121909

Several US box cars 45650ff are affected, also some Trix numbers and box cars from starter sets. Reefers are box cars. Some cabooses also had zincpest.

The zincpest croc is 37521.


Thanks Tom, very useful information for everyone ThumpUp ThumpUp
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#123 Posted : 05 August 2016 16:02:41(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,862
Location: CA, USA
Re: seetal crocs

OH NO. This kills me. I need to check my gears now. They need to make replacement gear parts available. that is unacceptable if they aren't

In fairness, Marklin changed both my frames free of charge (I only paid shipping), but this was some time ago. Speaking of frames, I recommend if anyone is handy, you can order a "new" (non-zincpesting) frame for only 10-15 euro through your local dealer, and while the switch takes time it isn't incredibly hard to do. It beats junking your locomotive.
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline nitramretep  
#124 Posted : 05 August 2016 19:42:02(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
Is that some sort of pot metal they are using? Perhaps a blend with Zinc or an alloy of same? My associate is a mechanical engineer, I'm electrical, and he found a manufacturered defect with similar fractures and cracks that occurred over time, not vibration or stress. He is having the metal analysed for components. However the damage shown on that croc is pretty amazing and the broken gear is perhaps another matter. I know many power tool manufacturers make gears out of a metallic powder that formed using heat and pressure. Some of those gears have failed and split apart, it was not due to "zinc pest" or oxidation, just failure/fatigue.
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#125 Posted : 05 August 2016 21:08:02(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
In the past I had a similar problem in Lima locos, plastic gear on metal axle, after some year the plastic will crack. A very bad quality of plastic of course.
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
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Offline Minok  
#126 Posted : 05 August 2016 21:25:15(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post

I did not say it was a different legal entity. I was merely referring to the corporate liabilities and were they lie following the Insolvency and subsequent sale, the corporation survives but old liabilities can remain with either former owners or former companies, this results in "effectively" a different company free from the burden of old liabilities.


While insolvency proceedings typically draw a line under and reorganize any financial liabilities, I'm not sure that the same is true for warranty liabilities. I'd be curious to find out if an insolvency also wipes out warranties outstanding.

However, separate from that is the brand, which is not subject to any legal restrictions but subject fully to the human court of public opinion. If your product turns out to be badly made or not holding up, the brand is burdened with this, and regardless of court rulings, the current owners would be well advised to address any poor quality product issues that have arisen from all prior manufacturing, or else the brand name will become synonymous with questionable quality.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
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Offline GlennM  
#127 Posted : 06 August 2016 01:18:43(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post

I did not say it was a different legal entity. I was merely referring to the corporate liabilities and were they lie following the Insolvency and subsequent sale, the corporation survives but old liabilities can remain with either former owners or former companies, this results in "effectively" a different company free from the burden of old liabilities.


While insolvency proceedings typically draw a line under and reorganize any financial liabilities, I'm not sure that the same is true for warranty liabilities. I'd be curious to find out if an insolvency also wipes out warranties outstanding.


This is true, but severance of Warranty entitlements is very easy to realise during an Insolvency and based on my own experience is one of the first issues to be dealt with. As a rule of business thumb, no one wants to take on the liabilities of another third party, when buying a company that is in distress.

Furthermore, Alberto has stated that he was already advised by Marklin that following the Insolvency, his Warranty claims are void, maybe I am wrong but I would not expect Marklin to simply make an idle claim, in order to try and avoid a simple Warranty claim.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
However, separate from that is the brand, which is not subject to any legal restrictions but subject fully to the human court of public opinion. If your product turns out to be badly made or not holding up, the brand is burdened with this, and regardless of court rulings, the current owners would be well advised to address any poor quality product issues that have arisen from all prior manufacturing, or else the brand name will become synonymous with questionable quality.


Again this is true, but Simba Dicke bought Marklin from a dire situation and appear to be trying to guarantee a future for the brand, you can hardly hold them responsible for the actions of a completely separate corporation from a separate country - the Kingsbridge Group, that owned the company and who all but ran Marklin the brand into the ground with questionable management?

If we adopt this position there may well not be a future for the Marklin brand.
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline dickinsonj  
#128 Posted : 06 August 2016 02:27:46(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Again this is true, but Simba Dicke bought Marklin from a dire situation and appear to be trying to guarantee a future for the brand, you can hardly hold them responsible for the actions of a completely separate corporation from a separate country - the Kingsbridge Group, that owned the company and who all but ran Marklin the brand into the ground with questionable management?

If we adopt this position there may well not be a future for the Marklin brand.
I totally agree.

There have obviously been some quality lapses in Marklin products in recent years. But I started collection Marklin products again just this year, after a 15 year break. I find that all of my newer models are very well detailed and nicely assembled. And since I take mine apart and mess around with them I can attest that they are much nicer and better made inside as well. My "classic" Marklin locos mostly have crude detailing, crude motors, crude assembly and crude electronics compared to today's products. And adjusted for inflation they are actually a bit less costly now.

I suppose in a few years they might all die and I will change my mind, but I doubt it. Right now I think that Simba Dicke is doing a great job in saving and reviving the Marklin brand.

I also think that there is an amazing amount of negativity about Marklin here, considering that this is a Marklin forum. When I first started collecting again this year I held back on buying newer locos after reading some of the posts on this forum, mainly because of quality concerns. But I have not been disappointed in any way with a single one of my newer locos and trains.

I think that the doom and gloom that often pervades this forum is wrong and that it discourages people from experiencing some excellent (if not perfect) trains.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline H0  
#129 Posted : 06 August 2016 08:39:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I think that the doom and gloom that often pervades this forum is wrong and that it discourages people from experiencing some excellent (if not perfect) trains.
I don't think so.
I think there is too much "Märklin is best" on this forum - sometimes from people who only buy analogue locos.
Märklin have a long history and they had good and not so good models in every decade.

With respect to this topic: zinc pest is not a disease, it is the result of using impure raw materials and/or incorrect die-cast processing.
IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for zinc pest with items that were made after 1960. It is well known for decades how zinc pest can be avoided.

Legally required warranty ends two years after the sale. Zinc pest and brittle C track teach us that 2 years are a relatively short period. Bad for the reputation of a company.
There also are brittle coaches. Buy coaches with four-digit ref. numbers on eBay, try to install lights or Preiserlings - and in the worst you have a coach puzzle with 1000 parts ...

How do you think current Märklin items will look like in 50 years?

A post on Stummi's forum indicates that the new 144 (37443) was shipped incomplete and was called back by Märklin for installation of the missing parts. Märklin delegate quality controls to the dealers. The dealers delegate quality controls to the customers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#130 Posted : 06 August 2016 09:33:20(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post


I think that the doom and gloom that often pervades this forum is wrong and that it discourages people from experiencing some excellent (if not perfect) trains.



I would like to hear this comment when you, after a few years, open a box and find your new locomotive destroyed.
And when your boxes are hundreds assure you that you do not sleep peaceful.
The marklin models are not toys, they are collectibles, always better to know its strengths and weaknesses. When I put on the tracks one of my croco 3756, 39560, 39561 I am moved as it is beautiful, strong and fluid in his movements, along with many other beautiful models.
This is what I want, quality and durability, nothing else.
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
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Offline GlennM  
#131 Posted : 06 August 2016 10:08:17(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
I think i own one of the Seetal crocs, the green Kof and at least one of the tipping hopper cars sets and I am dreading the day I open the box to find the items damaged beyond repair, and my sympathy goes out to all those affected.

I think it is important that we remain vigilant and share any findings on this Forum for the benefit of the members. I think it is important to record the affected items so new less experienced members can be aware of these problems, this is not Marklin bashing, it is a fact, be aware if you buy these items.

I also welcome the pressure to try and ensure better quality control across the board, these items are not cheap and we should expect a good level of quality control, furthermore, Marklin should learn from past mistakes, making a mistake once is regrettable making it twice is unforgivable.

However I do not support the suggestions that Marklin should be publicly vilified (as has been suggested on this post) for the actions of others who were running the company at a different point in time (in some cases over 10 years ago), regrettable though it may seem. I like my Marklin items and I would like to see them survive long into the future for my grandkids to enjoy, but this survival should not be at our expense.
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline Harryv40  
#132 Posted : 06 August 2016 10:28:00(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 242
Location: Wilshire
Hi All
I am a fairly newcomer to Marklin and I find this discussion very interesting.
It is wrong to expect a new holding company to pay for all warranty claims for the previous owners, however, goodwill normally comes into play and a solution is found.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the new Marklin to ask for a flat fee to address these issues, perhaps an exchange, it's easy and cheaper in most
cases instead of repairing them.
A fee of between 50 & 75 Euros to support the replacement costs, the benefits to Marklin would be many, improve the image of the company, happier collectors and more repeat purchases.

The one thing that gets in the way is the legal side who say things like how many years do you go back, what is the estimated cost, how do you value goodwill?

I hope everyone achieves a resolution of the zinc pest problem, but unfortunately it will run and run I expect.

Harry
Offline dickinsonj  
#133 Posted : 06 August 2016 13:26:15(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

A post on Stummi's forum indicates that the new 144 (37443) was shipped incomplete and was called back by Märklin for installation of the missing parts. Märklin delegate quality controls to the dealers. The dealers delegate quality controls to the customers.

You do bring up a very good point.

The dealer I buy from inspects and operates every model to make sure that it is perfect before it is shipped to me. I have never received anything from them with any issues at all. I would not be so happy with Marklin's quality if I was paying a lot of money and getting broken models with missing parts or models which did not operate properly.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#134 Posted : 06 August 2016 13:35:28(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post

I would like to hear this comment when you, after a few years, open a box and find your new locomotive destroyed.

Yes - you are correct. That would be a terrible feeling and I don't mean to imply that people who bought expensive collectable trains should just accept that. I guess I am basing my opinion on my own experience, which is more like your comment on the operation of some of your favorite models. Some of my Marklin locos are over 25 years old and they work as beautifully today as they did when they were new.

So I guess it depends on how widespread problems like these are. I know of no company making anything today that does not have quality lapses from time to time and I don't expect all of Marklin's products to be perfect. But I do expect Marklin to fix them when issues like this arise, which they do not appear to have done with the Seetal crocs.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#135 Posted : 06 August 2016 18:17:03(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Not all the production has the same defect, my köf 36805 (year 2001) doesn't have zinkpest, but the gearplasticpest on the main axle, (and also my FS köf 36806 year 2004)
This is a little defect, if you are able to open the loco in five minutes is repaired.
So, no panic, but check your model.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
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Offline dickinsonj  
#136 Posted : 06 August 2016 18:49:27(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post

This is a little defect, if you are able to open the loco in five minutes is repaired.
So, no panic, but check your model.

I was not aware of the plastic gear issue and it is helpful to know that. I will have to check my locos.

Do we know if the use of plastic gears is limited only to certain models or to certain production time frames? As far as I know all of my locos have metal gears but I may have not paid enough attention to that.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#137 Posted : 07 August 2016 08:17:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
As far as I know all of my locos have metal gears but I may have not paid enough attention to that.
That may well be the case. You can find plastic cog-wheels in old models like 3029 or 3003 from around the ’60s or ’70s.

With the Köf II you have small plastic cog-wheels on metal axles and the plastic is rather thin. Design and material probably do not match and more material (larger cog-wheel) or a stronger material would be needed.

The TRAXX models have plastic axles and plastic cog-wheels. I haven't heard of problems with those.

No need to be alarmed about plastic cog-wheels in general - the Köf II is one known exception.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline DasBert33  
#138 Posted : 07 August 2016 08:46:12(UTC)
DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,245
I had a similar issue on my 36822 Kof 2 years ago.

This is what I did when the Kof plastic gear replacements were out of stock:

https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postsm453808_Kof-running-characteristics.aspx

I guess it should be possible to replace the gears of the seetal croc by metal as well.

BTW my Kof with metal gear is still running around happily :)

Bert
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#139 Posted : 07 August 2016 18:45:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post

This is a little defect, if you are able to open the loco in five minutes is repaired.
So, no panic, but check your model.

I was not aware of the plastic gear issue and it is helpful to know that. I will have to check my locos.

Do we know if the use of plastic gears is limited only to certain models or to certain production time frames? As far as I know all of my locos have metal gears but I may have not paid enough attention to that.


Use of plastic gears goes back quite a long way. I know the 30032 Br24 with the 4 axle tender has a plastic gear as the first gear in the gear train that engages with the motor armature.

Offline dickinsonj  
#140 Posted : 07 August 2016 19:14:59(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Use of plastic gears goes back quite a long way. I know the 30032 Br24 with the 4 axle tender has a plastic gear as the first gear in the gear train that engages with the motor armature.

That is interesting. Are all of the plastic gears a potential area of failure or just those in certain models?

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#141 Posted : 07 August 2016 20:40:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Use of plastic gears goes back quite a long way. I know the 30032 Br24 with the 4 axle tender has a plastic gear as the first gear in the gear train that engages with the motor armature.

That is interesting. Are all of the plastic gears a potential area of failure or just those in certain models?



The one in the 30032 runs freely on a shaft, where the ones that seem to give problems in the Kof appear (from the pictures, I don't actually have one)) to be fixed on a shaft. This implies an interference fit which will put stress on the plastic, and if it is on a metal shaft, and kept in a place with wide temperature variations then the difference in expansion coefficient between the materials will add further stress to the plastic.

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Offline dominator  
#142 Posted : 08 August 2016 02:06:39(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hi, Maybe I was too hasty with my shove it comment, but as 5horizonsrr stated [Re: seetal crocs

OH NO. This kills me. I need to check my gears now. They need to make replacement gear parts available. that is unacceptable if they aren't

In fairness, Marklin changed both my frames free of charge (I only paid shipping), but this was some time ago. Speaking of frames, I recommend if anyone is handy, you can order a "new" (non-zincpesting) frame for only 10-15 euro through your local dealer, and while the switch takes time it isn't incredibly hard to do. It beats junking your locomotive.]



I think Marklin should recognize the problem and sell repair kits for all those faulty locos. Maybe if you have one and show it to a dealer, they can order the kit through Marklin for free, or for the nominal charge mentioned above [ if you live thousands of miles from a dealer ] including a good deal on freight. Either should be acceptable.

I have maybe 40 locos and none have zinc pest. 10 of these were made in the 50's. maybe I am lucky.

Maybe it is a good idea to play with your locos regularly when you get them. I have been guilty of test running on occasions my new locos bought around 2000, so hopefully I don't have any with defects. The only loco I ever felt sad about was the 3053. Maybe I am lucky.

Someone commented on sintered gears [ made from compressed metals ]. these gears were made for heavy duty equipment, and were sacrificial. In other words, if you overloaded your machine, the gears broke rather than stuffing the machine. Some machines had plastic gears in them that were there for the same purpose.

It was mentioned that one BR25 loco had a plastic gear running straight off the motor gear. That is good because at that point, it is a non stressed gear running at high speed with very little load. When you get down to the axles though, it is the opposite, and I would not consider a plastic gear in that situation. Plastic parts are used in the automotive industry for their anti wear properties, but they are usually supported by metal bodies [ ie the bushes in a motorcycle front fork ]

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#143 Posted : 09 August 2016 09:26:42(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
I have been told that the mix of plastic gears and metal gears is not always a good idea with regards to wear and tear. Having all plastic cogs or all metal cogs is supposed to be a better solution. In reality though: I have several locos with mixed setups and I have not experienced any problems. I think that this is what most users are to expect.

Most newer cogs are often made of durable nylon which is perfect for the job. Metal cogs tend to "talk" a bit more than their nylon counterparts. I do not think customers should see a nylon cog as reduced quality or not being state of the art, some of my best runners are Roco models with all nylon gearboxes. They run perfectly and without much noise from the gearboxes - if any at all.

In the Märklin world my 3016s have plastic cogs along with their metal ones. Mine are of the later generation, but I would bet that you would find similar configuration if you pop your older versions open and check.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#144 Posted : 11 August 2016 04:13:40(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,862
Location: CA, USA
Hi all,

I looked at my 37521 tonight, no gears broken, but it doesn't seems to run right. I pulled it apart and I'm sure its a gearing problem somewhere... I'm seeing if replacements are available. then maybe I'll give it a shot.

Alberto and friends- have any of you been able to obtain new gearsets?

On the plus side, the new frame markling replaced 5+ years ago looks fine still...
SBB Era 2-5
Offline dominator  
#145 Posted : 11 August 2016 10:16:53(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
HI John.It just goes to show that if you get onto a problem quick enough, then Marklin will come to the party and fix the problem. If Marklin only guarantee for 32 years, then we as Marklin supporters should insist that non wearing parts like this should have a 5 year warranty against defectiveness., and the we should also be more vigilant in checking such from now on., No hiding things away in boxes.

Take a leaf out of Utkans book. His models wont go back into their boxes till he has passed on to the great railway above.

Also I recommend using Analogue Mikes Idea of storing his consist in a drawer under his railway. That's another brilliant idea. Might need more drawers. Not sure how Ian is going to manage though. I sure the canny Scot will come up with something.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#146 Posted : 11 August 2016 15:30:45(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I looked at my 37521 tonight, no gears broken, but it doesn't seems to run right. I pulled it apart and I'm sure its a gearing problem somewhere... I'm seeing if replacements are available. then maybe I'll give it a shot.


You mean a click/block every turn of the wheels?
This was the cherry on top of the problem, due to the linkage of the wheels.
I was thinking to send in Märklin all the pieces and forget the loco.
Too much problems. Bored


Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#147 Posted : 11 August 2016 15:47:56(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,862
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I looked at my 37521 tonight, no gears broken, but it doesn't seems to run right. I pulled it apart and I'm sure its a gearing problem somewhere... I'm seeing if replacements are available. then maybe I'll give it a shot.


You mean a click/block every turn of the wheels?
This was the cherry on top of the problem, due to the linkage of the wheels.
I was thinking to send in Märklin all the pieces and forget the loco.
Too much problems. Bored




That is EXACTLY what is does- so its not even a broken gear but some other problem!?

Also- is the 37522 immune or do they have the same problems? Thanks all!
SBB Era 2-5
Offline mjrallare  
#148 Posted : 11 August 2016 17:26:42(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post


I think that the doom and gloom that often pervades this forum is wrong and that it discourages people from experiencing some excellent (if not perfect) trains.



I would like to hear this comment when you, after a few years, open a box and find your new locomotive destroyed.
And when your boxes are hundreds assure you that you do not sleep peaceful.
The marklin models are not toys, they are collectibles, always better to know its strengths and weaknesses. When I put on the tracks one of my croco 3756, 39560, 39561 I am moved as it is beautiful, strong and fluid in his movements, along with many other beautiful models.
This is what I want, quality and durability, nothing else.


My thoughts exactly...

I used to buy 12-15 locos a year, now I'm down to zero. The joy for me went out of the window together with Märklins quality control. And yes, most locos came without any problems, but all in all too many were affected. And no, I don't want to travel long distances to a dealer in order to check a loco. Many dealers don't carry much in stock, so you have to order it anyway meaning there is not another loco to compare with or substitute a potential faulty one for.

I'm mainly a collector. Not so positively looked upon on this forum where many seems to regard Märklin locos as mass-produced toys that are mainly intended for playing with on carpet-layouts. But I would think that many of Märklins customers are indeed collectors. And since I'm one of them I can fully sympathise with Alberto Pedrinis thoughts above.

My decision to stop buying new locos wasn't based on the fact that, so far, a couple of locos made in China have been affected by zinkpest. I own neither of those locos, although I fully sympathise with those who own the affected locos. No, it was based on numerous problems I've experienced during the years that slowly drained the fun out of my hobby. But the zinkpest question highlights a problem I have with Märklin. I've been a very loyal customer and I've spent a lot of money with them. But they don't seem to care. Nothing is ever published on their site about problems. Sometimes a letter is sent to the dealers, if the problems are big enough. But Märklin never informs the customers that actually have bought the locos. If customers, collectors for example(!), don't spot problems with a loco before the warranty is gone Märklin seems to be happy because for them it's a short-term saving. I'll admit that Märklin has helped me with faulty locos on many occasions. Cudos for that! But the last 2-3 years it hasn't been as easy as before and it assumes that you're able to spot a problem within the warranty period. Not always that easy for a collector (there I said that ugly word again!).

Even though I don't buy much these days I still enjoy the hobby. Maybe even more so now when I don't have any new purchases to worry about. I read a lot about the prototypes, I build kits, plan my future layout and find inspiration from Josef Brandl's amazing layouts.

I'll end by saying that for me the doom and gloom in the hobby came from Märklins inability to treat their customers with respect by openly informing about problems and origin of products. And most of all, by failing to implement a working QC.

/Torbjörn
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Offline Unholz  
#149 Posted : 11 August 2016 18:17:16(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post

Also- is the 37522 immune or do they have the same problems?


The 37522 was produced a few years later than the 37521 and should be okay. But please don't hold me responsible if... Unsure

Offline dominator  
#150 Posted : 12 August 2016 01:13:19(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
related and not related.
I own Toyota motor vehicles. Several years ago, my safety system warning light came on in my 2005 Hilux. Can't get a wof over here with it like that so took it to Toyota agent on Whangarei. They replaced the spherical loom in the steering column [ $450.00 or so ]. Approx 2 years later, they recalled all these vehicles to fit new spherical looms. I got in contact with Toyota NZ and asked if I could get my money back. They said yes, but I had to take it back to the agent in Whangarei with the receipts.

I GOT MY MONEY BACK


DERECK

Torbjorn. You are allowed to be a collector. I am both. We both have a right to expect our models to be perfect. That's what our expectations have been over the many years we have been collecting.
What is being descried here is still bullshit in the part of Marklin. Just not acceptable. It does appear there are not many problems [ mostly small ] and even fewer large problems.
If Toyota can do it, so can Marklin. Shit they charge enough in the first place. Are they now just a big money grabbing company like we tend to see in big business now. Nothing has changed, the big bad barons of the middle ages are still amongst us.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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