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Offline dominator  
#1 Posted : 03 April 2016 22:42:12(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Are the close couplers supposed to couple up easily at slow speed. I have found I have had to let the loco kind of crash into them to get them coupled, and not always securely.

Dereck
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Offline biedmatt  
#2 Posted : 03 April 2016 23:06:56(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Buy one box of Roco 40397 couplers and you will never look back.
https://www.marklin-user...dunread-change-couplings
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline dominator  
#3 Posted : 04 April 2016 05:30:26(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hi. That was a different way of fixing the problem from what I imagined. Might have to buy at least 2 boxes of these. They seem to cost about 1 euro each. many thanks Dereck
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 04 April 2016 06:49:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
couplers are sometimes not the problem but either the coupling shaft they're attached to is flexible enough to distort the height or the coupling shaft is loose at its securing point (screw)

another reason as Matt pointed out the spring mechanism is to weak to hold the coupling in the centre position and therefore is being pushed out where it can no longer be coupled together.

the Roco couplings as shown are relatively different to the Märklin short couplings not because they somewhat look identical but they couple together on either coupling at the same time. giving it a much more securer coupling option. Märklin coupling only couple on one side of either coupling.

John

Edited by user 05 April 2016 02:22:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline dominator  
#5 Posted : 05 April 2016 00:22:17(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Do the Roco and Marklin couplings work together.
Dereck
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Offline biedmatt  
#6 Posted : 05 April 2016 01:41:17(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Do the Roco and Marklin couplings work together.
Dereck


Yes. They are much more universal than M's close coupler.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline Danlake  
#7 Posted : 05 April 2016 03:25:51(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi all,

I just started converting my couplers on the freight wagons to Roco universal couplers as well. My initial impression is that they are much better than Marklin and if you enjoy shunting it's a pleasure with these couplers as they just couple so easilyThumpUp

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 05 April 2016 06:59:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I have found that Maerklin's close couplers (7203) are easier to manually separate than Roco's 40397. The Maerklin ones usually detach when one car/coach is tilted to one side. The Roco ones absolutely require that you use the little tool to lift the little foot underneath to release the coupling. The other major difference is that the shaft of the Roco coupler is about 1mm longer than the Maerklin one, which means that you will have a gap between cars and coaches. I have found that with certain manufacturers (Heris, Liliput, LSM*, ACME*), that the Roco coupler is better than the Maerklin one because the coupling shaft is slightly shorter than optimal, meaning that the Maerklin couplers do not extend fully as to permit coupling. The Roco couplers with the additional mm solve this issue. LSM and ACME have solved this issue by designing the coupling shaft to have positions that allow the coupler to be only partially inserted.
For Pendelzug (Push-Pull) operation, I rely on the Fleischmann Profi Coupling which seems more rigid and reliable when pushed. I guess that you could use the classic Roco close couplings too. The disadvantage is that these couplings can not be combined with others. My solution was to use Maerklin or Roco couplers on the first and last coaches. This has worked for my Maerklin and Roco SBB EW IV Intercity, Roco SBB IC 2000, Hag/Fleischmann Re 540 S-Bahn, Liliput SBB and BLS EWIII and Liliput and Roco/RailTop NPZ Pendelzug trains.
In some cases, I have duplicates for certain coaches that I can use in combination with other types, e.g. when I want to mix SBB EC and EWIV in the same consist.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline dominator  
#9 Posted : 11 April 2016 03:55:22(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Perhaps Tom Jessup could look at this thread.
Dereck

I had the same problem as Tom with my Br43 coupling between tender and loco. You only had to look at it and it would come apart,.. I silicone it in last time it was out. haven't tested it yet though.
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#10 Posted : 11 April 2016 08:43:46(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


Ok I have almost the same problem ,check out the thread about couplers above in the next sub posting .

Question . How many in a box & how much for the box . quote in either USA money or Euro's .

Cheers Tom in Oz
Offline jvuye  
#11 Posted : 11 April 2016 09:01:24(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post


Ok I have almost the same problem ,check out the thread about couplers above in the next sub posting .

Question . How many in a box & how much for the box . quote in either USA money or Euro's .

Cheers Tom in Oz


Hi Tom and all !
50 pieces in a box.
I buy them from Axel Schnug, cost is € 43 for the box. http://www.schnug-modell...auf/Kupplungen/Kuppl.htm
Definitely more reliable than Märklin couplers.
But outfitting **all** my rolling stock would be way too expensive.Crying
Only head and tails of established consists (e.g. an Intercity consist, or "block" freight sets made of a number of identical cars) .
The ones that I switch most are mixed freights cars and some local passengers sets, so wherever possible, they are getting the ROCO 40397 treatment
Hope this helps
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 11 April 2016 09:24:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Try with ESU new short couplers!
They are similar looks like Rocos universal short coupler too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Tom Jessop  
#13 Posted : 11 April 2016 12:32:00(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


On Doctors orders I am not allowed near any electrical or radio type of apparatus as I will be wearing a 24 hr heart monitor to see what may have caused my recent blackout. This will enable me to count how many couplers that I may consider that I have to change , might be a interesting audit of what I actually have .

Cheers Tom in Oz
Online xxup  
#14 Posted : 11 April 2016 14:42:39(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I hate to be the one to tell you this Tom, but that definately includes your PC! Especially if you have Wifi in the home - then you need to move into the radio free dog house.. Laugh
Adrian
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#15 Posted : 11 April 2016 22:57:48(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


No dog house here . Looks like Ill have to frequent the street & keep out of way of all RF items in peoples houses , maybe hop into the storm water channel & do some exploring but what will I do at night ? Could always go for a beach walk but not allowed to drive for 6 months either just to see if I have another blackout , Pheww talk about a police stare we live in .



Cheers Tom in Oz ,
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 11 April 2016 23:40:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post


No dog house here . Looks like Ill have to frequent the street & keep out of way of all RF items in peoples houses , maybe hop into the storm water channel & do some exploring but what will I do at night ? Could always go for a beach walk but not allowed to drive for 6 months either just to see if I have another blackout , Pheww talk about a police stare we live in .

Cheers Tom in Oz ,


Well, they obviously don't want you doing what the rubbish truck driver did in Glasgow a couple of Christmas' ago ...

That was a case of a guy who had had blackouts and hadn't told his employers - and he had gone through about three employers like this since his first blackout IIRC.

Offline Tom Jessop  
#17 Posted : 12 April 2016 01:19:52(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia



Alan , Exactly what I don't want to happen . When I saw the GP & she said no driving for 6 months & notify the Roads & Traffic authority I did obey her . Scariest thing is having the FD driving me around town, & if I say anything I'm in Bigger trouble . Overall I am improving with the small memory loss that developed after the fall , just having all the waiting to get in for appointments for specialists etc is giving me the pips because of the additional driving .


Cheers Tom in Oz
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Offline dominator  
#18 Posted : 12 April 2016 01:52:09(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Tom, I have the same problem being a passenger in my cars. I get my ear chewed too often. Best cure is to lie down in the back seat and close your eyes. You may even get 40 winks. Believe me, it does help to relieve stress.
Dereck

As you say in Aussie. Poor bastard.
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Offline dominator  
#19 Posted : 26 April 2016 06:02:56(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
I have been fiddling with these couplers today and discovered 1 problem with them.
When the cars are brought together, because the couplings are set at exactly the same height, the loops tend to touch and move upwards together, then when they drop down, they drop over the top of the cap and are prevented from hooking onto the pin. When this happens, they appear to have coup[led , but when moving away, will come apart because of this.
The only way these couplings can lock together as intended is for the loop to strike the pin and move up under the cap and move over the pin to engage behind the pin.
I think there can be no good cure for this unless one has different coupling heights from one end of a car to the other. Not very practical . I wonder how the Roco 40397 ones solve this problem.

Dereck
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Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:07:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how the Roco 40397 ones solve this problem.
They don't have a closed loop, they have a hook.
Both hooks pass each other and both hooks fall down behind the pin. Therefore they engage more easy and more reliable than Mother M*'s original.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline biedmatt  
#21 Posted : 26 April 2016 13:22:23(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hi Dereck, I think you have identified the fault with Marklin's close couplers. To a lesser extent this also happens with the old Relex couplers. Roco seems to have solved the problem by sharpening the leading edge of the loop or hook. Their hook is a casting much thicker than Marklin's stamped metal loop. This appears to allow them the ability to sharpen the edge without compromising the strength of the hook. I am not sure you could do the same with M's stamped metal loop.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline dominator  
#22 Posted : 26 April 2016 23:55:27(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Thanks Matt.
Marklin have been champions of metal models for years. [ You could say the were great artificers in metals ]. BUT, they have made a wrong choice in this instant.

The metal loop on Marklin couplers is stamped out of a mild steel sheet.[ they bend very easily ] This means that the edges are sharp, and square. So when 2 square edges come together they want to stay together.

It looks like the Roco couplers have plastic "hooks" which can be moulded to a special shape. { I presumed that must be rounded so that when coming together the have to move past each other. ] Matt has described them as being larger in cross section and shaped with a point. The points coming together are more likely to slide past each other.

The fact that Marklin couplers only latch on one peg is not the problem because when they do latch properly, the don't seem to come apart.

When one loop has coupled, it causes the other loop to slide up and above the pin and pre-uncoupler cap[ PUC ], so it isn't possible with that design for a double latch to happen..

the Roco couplers appear to have a thicker PUC, which causes the hooks to latch [ I may be wrong here ]. They are also one sided so the hooks don't interfere with each other which enables a double latch.


What do we do about it. Lets all go on strikeAngry . Why not let them know that we will not buy their merchandise unless they supply free of charge, Roco couplers. "Yeh right" as the saying goes over hereFlapper .


Maerklin, lf you modified your jig for the loops, so that when a loop is formed, a device comes along and rounds of the leading edge, you may cure the problemBigGrin . You might even coat them with PTFE to make them very slipperyConfused , but that may cause uncouplingCrying ., You could even remove one side of the coupler loop so that the top loop [ now a hook ] is not interfered by the lower loop [ hook ]. Wouldn't that be niceLOL .

Dereck

P S please feel free to upgrade or modify the observations mad here. I need strong glasses now so it is possible [ most likely ] there is something I haven't seen yet.
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Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 27 April 2016 00:10:28(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
There are many different couplers available that will fit on a NEM pocket. The beauty of this is that we are not restricted to Marklin's, Roco's, or any one coupler of any brand.

I personally like the Marklin close couplers. I've found non other that couple as closely as they do. I also like how the pair of couplings becomes rigid when successfully coupled up, making the close coupling kinetics work much better.

They do share the problem mentioned above of sometimes not coupling up at the first attempt with the Relex type, but I only find this an issue on a small percentage of coupling attempts.

Whatever coupling type you prefer, it doesn't break the bank to swap all your wagons to your preferred type.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline biedmatt  
#24 Posted : 27 April 2016 00:13:42(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I think many of us assume the problems are typical of all loop couplers until someone recommends a change. I know I thought it was endemic to loop couplers.

The cap is defined by Marklin as a "pre-uncoupler". It allows you to uncouple the wagens at an uncoupler track and continue to push the wagen to the location desired in your yard without them coupling back together, unless you back away from the opposite wagen.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#25 Posted : 27 April 2016 00:32:02(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
Terrific topic, with loads of good, honest, practical, and technical information which will surely come in useful.
And thanks heaps, for all the great contributions, insights and photos.
This topic might just keep going, like the old "hand uncoupler" thread (from 2007).

Tom in Aus, I hope your health improves.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline dominator  
#26 Posted : 27 April 2016 03:15:11(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hey Kimball, dont be cheeky. That other thread was a lot of fun. This one is supposed to be serious.

Thanks Matt, have adjusted the wording to suit.

Tom, hope you get better before the 6 months is up. Maybe you ought to wear a lead jacket when viewing this forum. Hope you are still allowed to laugh though, and hopefully have a beer. good for the sole and appetite.

Dereck
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Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 27 April 2016 08:15:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
It looks like the Roco couplers have plastic "hooks" which can be moulded to a special shape.
As Matt wrote it is cast metal.

Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
The fact that Marklin couplers only latch on one peg is not the problem because when they do latch properly, the don't seem to come apart.
Coming apart is seldom a problem - but sometimes it is.If the metal latch on one side does not move freely then you have a 50% chance that the "good" latch engages and it will work - or a 50% chance that the bad latch engages and train will separate when track is uneven.
Sometimes it helps to turn a car around or swap the order of two cars. Sometimes it helps to bend the metal hook a little bit. Sometimes I just dump the Märklin coupler and put a Roco coupler in.

Another problem: with only one metal loop engaged, the other loop will be too high and will collide with scale models (long coaches, long freight cars).


Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I personally like the Marklin close couplers. I've found non other that couple as closely as they do.
Roco Universal Coupler couples easier (good for freight cars), Roco Close Coupler couples closer (good for coaches).
I think Fleischmann Profi couplers also couple closer.
I don't see any aspect where Märklin Close Couplers are second to none.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dominator  
#28 Posted : 28 April 2016 22:43:20(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
So far I have managed to bugger 2 of these couplers. I took one side of them off so they coupled together and locked on both pins. Still had the original problem though of them rising together, but caused another problem when pulling the wagons apart. They caught on each other in the opposite direction. Now we know why they stayed with the loop.

At least now I know to leave the loop but find a solution for the sticking together problem. They are fiddly little buggers but didn't take too long to modify.

Dereck
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Offline dominator  
#29 Posted : 22 December 2016 07:30:30(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
with the recent purchase of Trix and Roco wagons, i found 2 of the wagons had the older loop couplings in the close coupler socket. Thought that was a waste so i fitted 4 close couplers. One of the wagons kept loosing its couplers and on close inspection I found I could not push them right home. I removed them and checked them withe ones that came out and found they were different. I sorted through the couplers I had spare and found there really were two different designs.

DSC01452.JPG
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#30 Posted : 23 December 2016 08:31:43(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
with the recent purchase of Trix and Roco wagons, i found 2 of the wagons had the older loop couplings in the close coupler socket. Thought that was a waste so i fitted 4 close couplers. One of the wagons kept loosing its couplers and on close inspection I found I could not push them right home. I removed them and checked them withe ones that came out and found they were different. I sorted through the couplers I had spare and found there really were two different designs...........


Do you mean the design of the spigot part that goes into the pocket, not the loop and guide part?

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline H0  
#31 Posted : 23 December 2016 08:45:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Do you mean the design of the spigot part that goes into the pocket, not the loop and guide part?
I guess that what he refers to.

This groove can make it difficult to insert the coupler the full way. Still you have to get it in completely to achieve full pulling power.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Jabez  
#32 Posted : 24 December 2016 00:38:32(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
For a thread dealing with couplers, I am surprised that no one has yet directly referenced this article. http://blog.mailez.de/eb...-couplers-for-h0-models/
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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H0
Offline dominator  
#33 Posted : 24 December 2016 06:41:30(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
HI Jabez. I've been through all that and proved the Roco universal is the best coupler by far. I thought I would point out the 2 differences I found.

Kimball. yes, its the spigot part that goes into the socket. Surprised me.

I will purchase more of the Roco universals later. I have used up the 50 I bought some time ago.

Dereck
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Offline RayF  
#34 Posted : 24 December 2016 13:24:20(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've noticed before that some of the Marklin close couplers have a different design of shaft, but they should all still fit in the pockets.

I'm a fan of these couplers and fit them on all my stock as far as I can. My Roco, Liliput and Piko wagons have no trouble working with the Marklin close couplers.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#35 Posted : 24 December 2016 14:07:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
My Roco, Liliput and Piko wagons have no trouble working with the Marklin close couplers.
I did have problems with Roco freight cars when Märklin close couplers were involved.
Longer cars are more likely to cause problems.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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