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Offline Rwill  
#201 Posted : 18 April 2016 15:28:29(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Popped into our only UK M dealer yesterday and surprisingly and pleasingly got my self a bargain!

On the way out in the entrance vestibule they have a table of freebies, leaflets for exhibitions, NI brochures for all sorts etc etc. In a cardboard box there was lurking those give away Marklin pens that I have seen before at exhibitions. So naturally I trousered a couple - can never find a pen in our house.

But neither of them work, in scientific terms they are dry as a nuns thingy.

Closer examination yield that printed on them is the script - you know what I going to say now.....................................Swiss made - honestly!
Offline Unholz  
#202 Posted : 18 April 2016 16:12:32(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
.....................................Swiss made - honestly!


They MUST be fakes...LOL Laugh

Offline MalinAC  
#203 Posted : 18 April 2016 16:36:55(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Thats why they were free. Because they didnt work. Theres no such thing as a free lunch in the world we live in today.BigGrin BigGrin Eddie
Offline Rwill  
#204 Posted : 18 April 2016 16:46:40(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: MalinAC Go to Quoted Post
Thats why they were free. Because they didnt work. Theres no such thing as a free lunch in the world we live in today.BigGrin BigGrin Eddie


But they are always free I didn't even get a discount!
Offline RayF  
#205 Posted : 18 April 2016 18:11:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've got a couple of those Marklin pens. Mine work fine!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Jay  
#206 Posted : 18 April 2016 19:36:09(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Try warming the tip with a lighter or a match. that usually gets it going again.
Offline Rwill  
#207 Posted : 18 April 2016 19:54:01(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Try warming the tip with a lighter or a match. that usually gets it going again.



Are you sure? We are talking here of the very highest grade of Swiss....... plastic. We might end up with melting moments and I would ruin the M warranty surely?

Online hxmiesa  
#208 Posted : 19 April 2016 09:56:02(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Try warming the tip with a lighter or a match. that usually gets it going again.

Are you sure? We are talking here of the very highest grade of Swiss....... plastic. We might end up with melting moments and I would ruin the M warranty surely?

Yeah. Better send them back to Schwitzerland for repairs! Dont forget good padding for the shipment box! Tracking number. Costums declaration.

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Mark_1602  
#209 Posted : 20 May 2016 09:54:14(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi everyone,

Here's one more M* set that was probably made in China: MHI 46461.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I've seen similar exotic printing codes on M* models such as the new Nohabs, which are definitely Chinese-made. I recently bought two 46461 sets, and I must say that the quality is at least as good as for freight cars made in Märklin's own factory in Györ, so I don't regret buying these. On one or two cars, a few specks of dust were trapped in the coat of paint, but that's not uncommon. By the way, the regular printing code ending in 'ND' or 'Nd' does not necessarily mean that the M* product in there was made in Europe, but only that it was packed into Märklin boxes there.

Last year I bought the Danish 48779 beer car set which has a regular printing code ending in 'ND', but it's a well-known fact that those are Hobbytrade cars, not Märklin ones. Who knows where those were made? All I know is that the 48779 set I bought from my official M* dealer was a warranty case and had to be replaced. I finally got an issue-free set and decided to order the two-car 48778 set from Joe's model train shop because my regular dealer didn't have it any more. Unfortunately, that was a warranty case as well, since there was a scratch in the livery of one beer car. I sent it back, whereupon the dealer blocked my account. ThumbDown

I don't think that many Märklin users would care where M* products are made if the quality were as good as it used to be, but we all know that's not the case any more.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline H0  
#210 Posted : 23 October 2016 09:23:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
On the Facebook group you can see pictures of the box #39250 SBB Elephant with "Made in China" sticker.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#211 Posted : 23 October 2016 10:54:21(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
On the Facebook group you can see pictures of the box #39250 SBB Elephant with "Made in China" sticker.


Yes i did also noticed about problems on the track with this model.
Some customer do have bad luck to get one new model made in China.
I was one of them with an Märklin BR 64!
Returned back to Göppingen and three months later they send an new locomotive to me,but this time porr light pipes.
Was forcement to change out light pipes to new!
This new locomotive was also made in China and my old BR 64 are still in Göppingen.
So beware of the models made in China!! Cursing

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#212 Posted : 23 October 2016 11:07:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Are the new CS3 made in Germany or China?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#213 Posted : 23 October 2016 11:30:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are the new CS3 made in Germany or China?
Who knows. I have to assume that the CS2 was made in Malaysia, from parts made in many different countries.

Does it matter?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline NewComix  
#214 Posted : 23 October 2016 12:21:52(UTC)
NewComix

Germany   
Joined: 17/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Harsefeld, Niedersachsen
Hi Goofy,

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are the new CS3 made in Germany or China?


in the south of Germany, but not Göppingen.

But as everybody knows CPU and other electronic parts might come from anywhere around the world.

kind regards
Jörg
Offline petestra  
#215 Posted : 23 October 2016 12:22:17(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
No, it does not matter as long as it's a well-made, efficient tool for our MR needs. Peter Cool
Offline Leitner  
#216 Posted : 23 October 2016 15:37:29(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
"Made in China" doesn't necessarily mean "low quality"... If you have the right supplier and a good quality control the quality of products will be the same as in Europe...
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline H0  
#217 Posted : 23 October 2016 17:33:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
"Made in China" doesn't necessarily mean "low quality"...
The real issue is that "Märklin" does not necessarily mean "high quality", but it always means "high price".

If we get something which is "Märklin" and "high price" and "low quality" and we later find it is "Made in China" then discussions on this forum begin.

Märklin often tell us about transferring production from China to Europe. They don't tell us what is made in China, so we collect information when it becomes available.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline CanadianKid  
#218 Posted : 23 October 2016 18:15:00(UTC)
CanadianKid

Canada   
Joined: 26/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: British Columbia
A few companies I know produce certain models of their items in China. All of these items are put through quality control in both China and in their home country, in order to keep the quality high. Another large manufacturer starter to manufacture parts in China, (Lego), but put a stop to it as there was no way to monitor individual quality on each brick. If China can produce a good quality item with assistance through Marklin, I have no problem paying good money for it. The only problems I have seen with tight control on a factory in China are nearly bootleg items, with the factory selling their manufacturing items out the back door for a far lower cost. However, this is going to be Marklin's problem, not ours.
Best Regards,
Matthew
Offline mike c  
#219 Posted : 23 October 2016 19:12:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I think that the biggest issue that I have seen with companies manufacturing goods overseas is quality control. Quality seems to be the highest in cases where the contracting company has personnel on site performing Quality Control (QC) and worse in cases where QC is left in the hands of the contracted company.
In one case, a European company sent a representative to "visit" the production facilities and problems ensued when that person was unable to communicate to the actual workers, who spoke no English or German. The representative tried to communicate through sales and managers with a little more success. The company then hired a local to act as QC representative, but they still experienced some issues.
Another company assigned multilingual staff to the production site to oversee QC and that company's productions very closely matched the desired quality. The details and paint jobs were top notch, but even they have had the occasional slip up.
All of this shows that the best productions, whether it be in China, in Hungary or in Germany require that dedication be there to ensure that the product matches the desired level of quality or the reputed quality of those models.
Whether they are made in China or in Europe, models should have similar quality to other offerings from that brand. For example, the colour overlaps on Maerklin TEE or SBB Cargo models have been particularly frustrating to me. As painting technology gets better, you would expect that the paint jobs would look better too, but I digress. Same goes for rendering. If a model is being rendered for 27cm or 28cm, are the windows being correctly rendered in 1:100 or 1:93.5 in width, but in 1:87 in height? If a coach has incorrect rendering, it may look acceptable on it's own, but stands out when used with other models. Look at the bar coach from the 42991 set or the SBB restaurant from the 26557 set to see what I mean.

As the prices of models continue to go up, I would hope that Maerklin and other companies would commit to a higher level of QC to ensure that the models are harmonious with older products (product and quality continuity) and that new models are compared to older models for colour/shade/finish before mass production begins.

Regards

Mike C
Offline sjbartels  
#220 Posted : 23 October 2016 23:54:26(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone,

Here's one more M* set that was probably made in China: MHI 46461.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I've seen similar exotic printing codes on M* models such as the new Nohabs, which are definitely Chinese-made. I recently bought two 46461 sets, and I must say that the quality is at least as good as for freight cars made in Märklin's own factory in Györ, so I don't regret buying these. On one or two cars, a few specks of dust were trapped in the coat of paint, but that's not uncommon. By the way, the regular printing code ending in 'ND' or 'Nd' does not necessarily mean that the M* product in there was made in Europe, but only that it was packed into Märklin boxes there.

Last year I bought the Danish 48779 beer car set which has a regular printing code ending in 'ND', but it's a well-known fact that those are Hobbytrade cars, not Märklin ones. Who knows where those were made? All I know is that the 48779 set I bought from my official M* dealer was a warranty case and had to be replaced. I finally got an issue-free set and decided to order the two-car 48778 set from Joe's model train shop because my regular dealer didn't have it any more. Unfortunately, that was a warranty case as well, since there was a scratch in the livery of one beer car. I sent it back, whereupon the dealer blocked my account. ThumbDown

I don't think that many Märklin users would care where M* products are made if the quality were as good as it used to be, but we all know that's not the case any more.

Best regards,
Mark



I'll tell you for a fact that this particular set is made in China.... I know because all Marklin products sold here in the USA have a Made In sticker on the back... I have this set and guess what....!

46461 Box.jpg

I profess to having no issues to date with anything that was Made in China and as long as the quality control is there, then I am good. I've had experiences with my job where I've had things ship from France that had a 100% fail rate at one point, so quality control (or lack there of) can happen anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I've had junk ship from China as well with other purchases, but I've never had any issue with Marklin stuff from China to date. Granted I don't have a lot that is made there either, mine is all from Hungary and Germany for detailed stuff

Edited by user 24 October 2016 06:37:43(UTC)  | Reason: Grammer

American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline jlopez  
#221 Posted : 24 October 2016 04:28:33(UTC)
jlopez

United States   
Joined: 28/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 143
Location: San Francisco
Well I was the one that opened my new SBB elephant put it on the track, I have never seen a Marklin locomotive behave the way it did. This is the second locomotive I've had made in China that had defects right out of the box.

Like many here I was furious and dis pointed that it was made in China, especially for the price we pay for these locomotives. I can understand maybe if their is a history of quality coming out of China with Marklin, but their is not. It's been a known issue for years, Yet they continue to put their name and reputation in jeapordy by having them produced there. I don't get it. Let's be honest it's premium brand, they know we shell out the money for the nicer models. Why risk it with your high end locomotives.

Honestly had I known it would be built there I probably would not have ordered it. In the end the loco is on its way back to the dealer, but it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth from Marklin.
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Offline Collector  
#222 Posted : 24 October 2016 22:11:09(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
"Made in China" doesn't necessarily mean "low quality"... If you have the right supplier and a good quality control the quality of products will be the same as in Europe...


No it doesn't necessarily mean "low quality" but what you get delivered now may be of a complete different level quality as what you get next week, next month or next year. Or even the other items in the same box!

The problem is endemic corruption. If some guy at the other end find or sees a way to save 0.02 then to hell with your specs or the quality there is 0.02 to be saved. Aston Martin had to recall vehicles because a Chinese assembly subcontractor had used/been sold FAKE Dupont plastic.

Not all quality problems will be spotted by quality control, some things will manifest way later. Like diesel engines of a series manufactured in china which start developing wear related problems after 2/3 of the use of engine series manufactured in Europe or North America. When will that show up? Too late for both the customer AND the manufacturer who thought it was a good idea to produce their stuff in china BY A SUBCONTRACTOR.

Unless it has changed you cannot own a majority stake in a company in china. While china is gaining control all over the place by buying up companies all over, you can only produce in china in a joint venture scenario where you are the minority partner (i.e. NO CONTROL) and you are in effect teaching the chinese how to produce cars etc OR by a completely third party manufacturing operation.

Where if your concentration lapses, someone WILL find a way to save $0.02 not giving a f*** about your reputation or how ever short whatever you ordered from them lasts.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
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Offline Collector  
#223 Posted : 24 October 2016 22:17:05(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Märklin often tell us about transferring production from China to Europe. They don't tell us what is made in China, so we collect information when it becomes available.


Hi Tom,

Do you have a list of items known to be made in China? I am trying to keep track of them but it is not easy to find out before you buy something.

DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline dominator  
#224 Posted : 24 October 2016 23:41:55(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Chinese attitude.
I was speaking to an airline pilot who flew freighters out of China. He used to turn up at the airport in China to fly his plane out and always found it hadn't been loaded as scheduled. He got sick of that so he started ringing up the airport to ask if his plane was loaded. He would then get down to the airport to find his plane still hadn't been loaded. this went on and on till he got pissed of. He asked the chief loader what was going on to be told that in order to promote themselves [ self esteem etc ] or their families , Chinese would say anything to get other to think highly of them. In other words, it isn't telling lies in Chinese .

We sell Chinese tiles in our shop and we heard that someone getting tiles made in China was asked "where do you want to have these made printed on the boxes"

A large NZ company Fonterra set up dairy factories in China and they were at the centre of this Melamine bullshit, which didn't do them any good. We dont do Melamine in NZ but the shifty bastards running the factories in China didnt give a shit about poisoning their own babies.

Its a joke in NZ that one of our companies taught the Chinese how to compete with us in the world wide dairy market.


Please note, the Chinese tiles I sell in my shop are well made. I wont sell shit. [ I have seen some shit come out of China though ]. I have bought a few electronic components from China recently so I am not totally against buying Chinese, but I do like to know what the quality is going to be like unless it is unimportant stuff that is dirt cheap.

There are Chinese entrepreneurs that are just like those from any where in the world who are just out there to make a quick buck.

We always joked about the tin toys etc that came out of Japan, but look at what comes from Japan now. Lets just say its early days still with China.

Dereck

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline Leitner  
#225 Posted : 25 October 2016 01:36:02(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
My company imports electronic components from China and Taiwan since 1986, I'm in charge of all the procurement since 6 years, I don't say chinese are flawless but, if you get the right factory and you put the right people on the ground, the chances you get a bad final product are low.

Of course if you want to maximize the profit and go for an average-low quality supplier you should be ready for everything.

Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Leitner
Offline grnwtrs  
#226 Posted : 25 October 2016 01:58:15(UTC)
grnwtrs

United States   
Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: El Sobrante, California
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Chinese attitude.
I was speaking to an airline pilot who flew freighters out of China. He used to turn up at the airport in China to fly his plane out and always found it hadn't been loaded as scheduled. He got sick of that so he started ringing up the airport to ask if his plane was loaded. He would then get down to the airport to find his plane still hadn't been loaded. this went on and on till he got pissed of. He asked the chief loader what was going on to be told that in order to promote themselves [ self esteem etc ] or their families , Chinese would say anything to get other to think highly of them. In other words, it isn't telling lies in Chinese .

We sell Chinese tiles in our shop and we heard that someone getting tiles made in China was asked "where do you want to have these made printed on the boxes"

A large NZ company Fonterra set up dairy factories in China and they were at the centre of this Melamine bullshit, which didn't do them any good. We dont do Melamine in NZ but the shifty bastards running the factories in China didnt give a shit about poisoning their own babies.

Its a joke in NZ that one of our companies taught the Chinese how to compete with us in the world wide dairy market.


Please note, the Chinese tiles I sell in my shop are well made. I wont sell shit. [ I have seen some shit come out of China though ]. I have bought a few electronic components from China recently so I am not totally against buying Chinese, but I do like to know what the quality is going to be like unless it is unimportant stuff that is dirt cheap.

The "Chinese factory" does not determine the QUALITY!! The quality is determined by the person/persons (Company) that wants to SELL to the END USER!

There are Chinese entrepreneurs that are just like those from any where in the world who are just out there to make a quick buck.

All factories want to make a quick buck. That is how they stay in business. Unfortunately the "specs" and price points
set out by the intermediary make it mostly impossible for happy endings.!!Angry i


We always joked about the tin toys etc that came out of Japan, but look at what comes from Japan now. Lets just say its early days still with China.

Try to buy one of those toy w/packaging at 3 times the original selling price. Laugh
Dereck

Dereck


Best Regards,
gene

Offline dominator  
#227 Posted : 25 October 2016 05:25:02(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hi Leitner and Gene. I agree. It's the end user that often determines the quality by the price he is prepared to pay. Yes we all want to make a quick buck, but when it is at the expense of quality, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth both for the seller and the buyer..
A banker I know once told me in every transaction there is a winner and a looser w [ rhymes with banker ] . My belief is that in every transaction everyone should be a winner [ in their own mind ].

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#228 Posted : 25 October 2016 06:03:37(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
The problem is endemic corruption. If some guy at the other end find or sees a way to save 0.02 then to hell with your specs or the quality there is 0.02 to be saved. Aston Martin had to recall vehicles because a Chinese assembly subcontractor had used/been sold FAKE Dupont plastic.


A friend of mine visited the KM-1 factory in Germany earlier this year. Andreas Krug, the KM-1 owner, told my friend that he had had some issues with the Chinese who were manufacturing his Gauge 1 items stealing some of his propriety information (it was to do with the mix of nickel in the KM-1 G1 track, and how that is achieved). Andreas went to the South Koreans and asked them to manage the Chinese manufacturer on his behalf, reasoning that Asians will understand the Asian culture better than a Western European person will. So far this arrangement has worked out well, and I can say as the owner of a KM-1 G1 locomotive made in China that it is of exceptional quality.
Offline H0  
#229 Posted : 25 October 2016 08:29:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Do you have a list of items known to be made in China?
I don't care enough to maintain such a list.

The post on Fakebook is somewhat interesting: JLo wrote he expected trouble when he saw the "Made in China" sticker. Another user wrote he thought that all Märklin was made in Europe. A third user wrote that his SBB Elephant was made in Germany. LOL
People see a China toy with the address of the German headquarter and assume it was made in Germany. Märklin's propaganda is highly efficient.


Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
The problem is endemic corruption. If some guy at the other end find or sees a way to save 0.02 then to hell with your specs or the quality there is 0.02 to be saved. Aston Martin had to recall vehicles because a Chinese assembly subcontractor had used/been sold FAKE Dupont plastic.
That's how zinkpest came back to Märklin.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#230 Posted : 25 October 2016 17:54:08(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
The problem is endemic corruption. If some guy at the other end find or sees a way to save 0.02 then to hell with your specs or the quality there is 0.02 to be saved. Aston Martin had to recall vehicles because a Chinese assembly subcontractor had used/been sold FAKE Dupont plastic.


A friend of mine visited the KM-1 factory in Germany earlier this year. Andreas Krug, the KM-1 owner, told my friend that he had had some issues with the Chinese who were manufacturing his Gauge 1 items stealing some of his propriety information (it was to do with the mix of nickel in the KM-1 G1 track, and how that is achieved). Andreas went to the South Koreans and asked them to manage the Chinese manufacturer on his behalf, reasoning that Asians will understand the Asian culture better than a Western European person will. So far this arrangement has worked out well, and I can say as the owner of a KM-1 G1 locomotive made in China that it is of exceptional quality.


I believe that is what Marklin are now doing, witness the thread here that happened when the 37015 came out and someone pointed to a picture of it on a Korean manufacturers web site.

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Offline Collector  
#231 Posted : 25 October 2016 20:35:55(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
My company imports electronic components from China and Taiwan since 1986, I'm in charge of all the procurement since 6 years, I don't say chinese are flawless but, if you get the right factory and you put the right people on the ground, the chances you get a bad final product are low.

Of course if you want to maximize the profit and go for an average-low quality supplier you should be ready for everything.



At the end of the 1980s beginning of 1990s lots of Taiwanese computer products were complete junk. It was clearly visible just by LOOKING at things like I/O expansion boards.


Why on earth would ANYONE want anything produced in China for any other reason than "to maximize the profit"?


If you ask me the concept of quality simply does not exist in Chinese culture.


If a company like ASUS produces in China, I am not too worried about the quality of the boards they spit out.

Anything done at a company one order or more of magnitude smaller I simply would not trust.


The concept of "You get what you pay for", from a consumer point of view sadly died years ago.


These days if you buy something from "brand A" for $6 you can be buying the exact same piece of s*** that was made in China that you get from "brand B" for $1.

Only difference being the name printed on the "product".

And quite often if you have even the slightest idea how things are made, you could see that if they had literally spent $0.02 more on plastic it might actually last a bit longer or perhaps do what the buyer was hoping for when he bought it.


If you appreciate quality like I do, then this is a real nuisance because you end up spending a lot of time trying to find something which is not crap.


Example: Headsets for PCs. Ever noticed how they ALL fail in similar ways? Even used-to-be quality brands like Sennheiser don't last if regularly used. Guess what? Yep, made in China too. Lost count of the number I threw away.




If a company would produce things like engines in China and put it into a car or something else made elsewhere I would not touch it, no matter how cheap the end product. Just not worth the aggravation that is sure to follow.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline grnwtrs  
#232 Posted : 25 October 2016 21:38:07(UTC)
grnwtrs

United States   
Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: El Sobrante, California
Sorry all, but in an earlier post of mine,on this subject, I think I have stated incorrectly who determines the " quality of manufactured goods"
This was specifically related to MARKLIN, and to contract manufacturing.

When I first started buying/running marklin, the concept of contract/offshore manufacturing never ever entered my naive mindless soul.
As far as I was concerned, all Marklin goods was manufactured by Marklin in DE. Pure and simple, and when I could afford Marklin,
I went to the Berkeley Hardware store on University avenue in Berkley Calif, to look around in the basement and find a treasure I could
afford that day. That is it, pure and simple.

After leaving public accounting I went to work for HP, and then to other manufacturers. Quality control was simply did the product
meet the objectives and uses of the end user. Cost was the furthest thing from my mind. Quality was the most important factor.

Then after I retired, I learned that Marklin was bankrupt, and being sold off, etc.
The gory details have been fully reported and illustrated here. Also the involvement of GS fame/infamyCursing

I guess what I really trying to say, is that the product outsource, was outsourced by the pure and simple incompetent
souls who should have spent a bit more time on the factory floor than the boardroom.

Then we would all be winners!

Regards,
gene
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Offline Minok  
#233 Posted : 25 October 2016 21:54:12(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
"Made in China" doesn't necessarily mean "low quality"... If you have the right supplier and a good quality control the quality of products will be the same as in Europe...


No it doesn't necessarily mean "low quality" but what you get delivered now may be of a complete different level quality as what you get next week, next month or next year. Or even the other items in the same box!

The problem is endemic corruption. If some guy at the other end find or sees a way to save 0.02 then to hell with your specs or the quality there is 0.02 to be saved. Aston Martin had to recall vehicles because a Chinese assembly subcontractor had used/been sold FAKE Dupont plastic.

Not all quality problems will be spotted by quality control, some things will manifest way later. Like diesel engines of a series manufactured in china which start developing wear related problems after 2/3 of the use of engine series manufactured in Europe or North America. When will that show up? Too late for both the customer AND the manufacturer who thought it was a good idea to produce their stuff in china BY A SUBCONTRACTOR.

Unless it has changed you cannot own a majority stake in a company in china. While china is gaining control all over the place by buying up companies all over, you can only produce in china in a joint venture scenario where you are the minority partner (i.e. NO CONTROL) and you are in effect teaching the chinese how to produce cars etc OR by a completely third party manufacturing operation.

Where if your concentration lapses, someone WILL find a way to save $0.02 not giving a f*** about your reputation or how ever short whatever you ordered from them lasts.


Indeed. Another case was the pet foods/treats from a few years ago, where an ingredient supplier to the pet foot/treat plant added chemicals products not meant for consumption to their product so their lower quality product would register as having higher quality on some test that is done, resulting in a bigger profit. That ingredient ended up in the pet food/treat, and months later, pets in the US were dying due to liver failure.

China as a nation has no interest in building a brand reputation for "made in china" that evokes quality and reliability. They see it as a brand for 'we can make it cheap'. Individual companies and persons/workers have zero incentive to produce quality - its all a race to extract profit for oneself, today. The rest is someone else's problem.

And it may or may not be a uniquely Chinese problem; the Precor company recently had to repair a lot of their elliptical machines (exercise equipment) because a main bearing system had been modified by a supplier, undoubtedly to save money, which resulted in failures of those bearings a year down the road and great expense to Precor. I don't know who supplied those bearings.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Leitner  
#234 Posted : 26 October 2016 00:46:17(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
My company imports electronic components from China and Taiwan since 1986, I'm in charge of all the procurement since 6 years, I don't say chinese are flawless but, if you get the right factory and you put the right people on the ground, the chances you get a bad final product are low.

Of course if you want to maximize the profit and go for an average-low quality supplier you should be ready for everything.



At the end of the 1980s beginning of 1990s lots of Taiwanese computer products were complete junk. It was clearly visible just by LOOKING at things like I/O expansion boards.


Why on earth would ANYONE want anything produced in China for any other reason than "to maximize the profit"?


If you ask me the concept of quality simply does not exist in Chinese culture.


If a company like ASUS produces in China, I am not too worried about the quality of the boards they spit out.

Anything done at a company one order or more of magnitude smaller I simply would not trust.


The concept of "You get what you pay for", from a consumer point of view sadly died years ago.


These days if you buy something from "brand A" for $6 you can be buying the exact same piece of s*** that was made in China that you get from "brand B" for $1.

Only difference being the name printed on the "product".

And quite often if you have even the slightest idea how things are made, you could see that if they had literally spent $0.02 more on plastic it might actually last a bit longer or perhaps do what the buyer was hoping for when he bought it.


If you appreciate quality like I do, then this is a real nuisance because you end up spending a lot of time trying to find something which is not crap.


Example: Headsets for PCs. Ever noticed how they ALL fail in similar ways? Even used-to-be quality brands like Sennheiser don't last if regularly used. Guess what? Yep, made in China too. Lost count of the number I threw away.




If a company would produce things like engines in China and put it into a car or something else made elsewhere I would not touch it, no matter how cheap the end product. Just not worth the aggravation that is sure to follow.


This is simply not true.

1) In the 80's in Taiwan you could go both to shitty factory made out in a garage of a shack and proper factory which did good quality product

2) Production move to far east because costs are too high, it's not only about maximizing costs, it's about staying in business.

Marklin sell model trains, not life saving medicine, if the whole world is going through an economical crisis, and the model train business in particular, they have to find a way to stay afloat, cutting costs and trying to lower the price of products otherwise people would not buy them and they would go down.

3) That's sort of true, quality isn't really a chinese thing, but if you put the right people in the right places and you have a proper quality control you can get as much as you get in Europe.

Concerning you pay what you get...

I wish I could show you the difference between a 1,30 USD mouse and a 3,5 USD (FOB China) one :)

It's not only about 0,0x of plastics, it's about what you put inside, trust me, if I had to judge a product only by appearance when I buy from China I would have gone bankrupt years ago; you made the example of an headset, let's take a bluetooth headset, you know how many chinese factory put fake IC circuit? Doesn't pay things like bt license and so on? The housing of the product maybe looks exactly the same, what's inside makes the difference.


Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline Collector  
#235 Posted : 26 October 2016 02:23:28(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
My company imports electronic components from China and Taiwan since 1986, I'm in charge of all the procurement since 6 years, I don't say chinese are flawless but, if you get the right factory and you put the right people on the ground, the chances you get a bad final product are low.

Of course if you want to maximize the profit and go for an average-low quality supplier you should be ready for everything.



At the end of the 1980s beginning of 1990s lots of Taiwanese computer products were complete junk. It was clearly visible just by LOOKING at things like I/O expansion boards.


Why on earth would ANYONE want anything produced in China for any other reason than "to maximize the profit"?


If you ask me the concept of quality simply does not exist in Chinese culture.


If a company like ASUS produces in China, I am not too worried about the quality of the boards they spit out.

Anything done at a company one order or more of magnitude smaller I simply would not trust.


The concept of "You get what you pay for", from a consumer point of view sadly died years ago.


These days if you buy something from "brand A" for $6 you can be buying the exact same piece of s*** that was made in China that you get from "brand B" for $1.

Only difference being the name printed on the "product".

And quite often if you have even the slightest idea how things are made, you could see that if they had literally spent $0.02 more on plastic it might actually last a bit longer or perhaps do what the buyer was hoping for when he bought it.


If you appreciate quality like I do, then this is a real nuisance because you end up spending a lot of time trying to find something which is not crap.


Example: Headsets for PCs. Ever noticed how they ALL fail in similar ways? Even used-to-be quality brands like Sennheiser don't last if regularly used. Guess what? Yep, made in China too. Lost count of the number I threw away.




If a company would produce things like engines in China and put it into a car or something else made elsewhere I would not touch it, no matter how cheap the end product. Just not worth the aggravation that is sure to follow.


This is simply not true.

1) In the 80's in Taiwan you could go both to shitty factory made out in a garage of a shack and proper factory which did good quality product

2) Production move to far east because costs are too high, it's not only about maximizing costs, it's about staying in business.

Marklin sell model trains, not life saving medicine, if the whole world is going through an economical crisis, and the model train business in particular, they have to find a way to stay afloat, cutting costs and trying to lower the price of products otherwise people would not buy them and they would go down.

3) That's sort of true, quality isn't really a chinese thing, but if you put the right people in the right places and you have a proper quality control you can get as much as you get in Europe.

Concerning you pay what you get...

I wish I could show you the difference between a 1,30 USD mouse and a 3,5 USD (FOB China) one :)

It's not only about 0,0x of plastics, it's about what you put inside, trust me, if I had to judge a product only by appearance when I buy from China I would have gone bankrupt years ago; you made the example of an headset, let's take a bluetooth headset, you know how many chinese factory put fake IC circuit? Doesn't pay things like bt license and so on? The housing of the product maybe looks exactly the same, what's inside makes the difference.




Funnily enough the made in china mice seem remarkably reliable LOL If anyone knows of a mouse NOT made in china PLEASE send me pm I need one for marketing reasons!

With bluetooth there would be chips involved. With the simple headsets with microphone commonly used for skype etc that is not the case. Nothing to fake there. First one side fails and then it is a matter of intermittent problem with the microphone or the other side fails, whichever comes first. Logitec for $20, Sennheiser for $39 or no-name for $5 ALL similar problems. ALL junk. ALL made in china.

I was in the computer business in the early 1990s and I have seen the junk myself.

When I am referring above to the same for $1 as you get for $6 I am talking about LITERALLY the same product. A USB sound "card" comes to mind.

Another example are the tablet holders for on your car dashboard. STUDY carefully all the ones available on eBay, you will see that they are mostly combinations of a very low number of molds. Then read the reviews on amazon how long such a "product" lasts. Look at the high res pictures and you see that an extra $0.0X in plastic and/or knowing what you are doing when you design something like that would have solved the issue before it got started. Now there were 2 combinations of parts that were actually quite good but it took hours of wading through a pile of junk products to find them.

Seems totally irrelevant to me if you buy it straight from china or you buy one at an inflated price with a "brand" on it in some shop in Europe.


When it comes down to engines etc. Saving some money on metal surface treatments in bearings or cylinders is going to get noticed exactly when? Hint: WAY too late.

When do you think the Zinc Pest was discovered and who discovered it? Probably NOT the person in "quality control" The subcontractor very likely DELIBERATELY ignored the spec to save $0.02

Why would you want to do business in an environment where if your concentration lapses for a second or if you turn around you get screwed over?

The there are also political, moral and environmental issues.

Marklin and others know full well that if they put "made in china" on the box lots of people will not buy it or will not be prepared to pay the Marklin prices.

I for one am not. Unless I know where the Marklin models are made I will not buy them.

Do you call 500-600 euro steam locos "trying to lower the price"?

I think there should be a law in Europe that makes CoO labeling mandatory. In fact the EU parliament approved such a law. But it never became law because the committee was of the opinion that it would be "anti free trade" to do that.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline mike c  
#236 Posted : 26 October 2016 02:52:23(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
The argument that a lot of companies used was that production was cheaper in China and that it would allow the companies to remain competitive and pass the savings on to the customers. The reality was quite the opposite. They benefitted from the cheaper production costs in China and the gains went straight into shareholder profits and administrative bonuses. Instead of seeing a reduction in price, the cost of these products actually increased in many cases.
This was severely affected by currency manipulation by the Chinese, combined with the drop of the Euro and the rise of the US dollar since 2008. This resulted in a situation where the Euro had been at an exchange rate of about 1 to 1.40 with the US dollar, but by 2015 that had dropped to roughly 1 to 1.15 and the Chinese manufacturers demanded payment in US dollar, meaning that the cost had increased by at least 25-30%, which they had to absorb or pass on to the customer. This jump, along with increasing production delays and other issues (employees not returning to the factories after holidays at home), Chinese manufacturers using third parties to manufacture parts and acquisition of major facilities by one group, effectively putting other brands in the position of having to have their models made by a competitor were all factors that led many companies to reconsider returning to in-house production and/or moving production back to Europe.
I realize that Hungary, Romania, etc are closer to Germany and it is cheaper for the company to do oversight of production there than to do so in China, but eastern European production is still not the same as what used to exist in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
I don't care where it is made, as long as it is made by people who care about their products, the reputation and the longevity of the models so that the customer can enjoy it's use for years and not just for a few weeks after the holidays. The employees that used to work at those plants in Europe used to have an investment in their work because they had a sense that they were part of the Maerklin, Roco or other family. Do you think that a worker in Shenzhen has a loyalty to his or her company when half of them don't go back to work after holidays or whether a worker at a car plant in Mexico really cares about the product when he can't even afford one? Today's employee is not seen as part of the family, but once again as a thing to be exploited to maximize profits.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline CanadianKid  
#237 Posted : 26 October 2016 05:02:01(UTC)
CanadianKid

Canada   
Joined: 26/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: British Columbia
As we start to delve into the ethics of manufacturing in foreign countries..
My mom runs HR for a company here on the coast, if there is anything I have learnt from her teachings is that morale and sense of community can increase the quality of a product exponentially.
Best Regards,
Matthew
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Offline Likvid  
#238 Posted : 15 November 2016 11:46:50(UTC)
Likvid


Joined: 16/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Sweden
It's disappointig but you should all remember who buys these Made in China locos is that for every locos you buy the more people doesn't get any new jobs in Europe, you are all financing and accepting the lay-offs of European workers.

I beleive it's a moral in this issue to show where you all stand, if we all stopped buying from China they would lose business and force the production back to Europe, simple as that, they are tearing us apart in Europe right, it's not really our responsibility to support and build up and wealth of the Asian market

So where are other manufacturers making their locos, like Roco etc? aren't they purely made in Austria these days?.
Offline PhillipL  
#239 Posted : 15 November 2016 12:05:30(UTC)
PhillipL

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 123
Roco makes most of their locomotives in Romania now. They still have some items made in both China and Vietnam. To be honest, the quality of their model trains has dropped in recent years (my opinion).
Offline H0  
#240 Posted : 15 November 2016 12:10:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Likvid Go to Quoted Post
So where are other manufacturers making their locos, like Roco etc? aren't they purely made in Austria these days?.
I think we had that before: Roco and Fleischmann announced the end of production in China some time ago. They wrote production in China was over.
Roco manufactures in Austria, Slovakia, and Rumania.
Fleischmann manufactures in Germany and Rumania.

But I bet their power supplies are still "Made in China".

According to the Roco site, the motors are made in Austria and locos are made in Slovakia.
http://www.roco.cc/en/aboutus/locations/index.html


Originally Posted by: PhillipL Go to Quoted Post
Roco makes most of their locomotives in Romania now.
That contradicts the information on their site.

Originally Posted by: PhillipL Go to Quoted Post
They still have some items made in both China and Vietnam.
Which items? All rolling stock should be Made in EU now according to information from Roco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Online hxmiesa  
#241 Posted : 15 November 2016 16:30:29(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Likvid Go to Quoted Post
It's disappointig but you should all remember who buys these Made in China locos is that for every locos you buy the more people doesn't get any new jobs in Europe, you are all financing and accepting the lay-offs of European workers.
I beleive it's a moral in this issue to show where you all stand, if we all stopped buying from China they would lose business and force the production back to Europe, simple as that, they are tearing us apart in Europe right, it's not really our responsibility to support and build up and wealth of the Asian market

Heh... Havent we already been around this subject?
The computer you use to write that anti-asia message is probably made in Asia.
Even if you buy a loco "made in Germany", the decoder and other parts would most likely come from Asia anyway.
What about your telephone, tv-set, camera, etc...
Where do you set the limit of what is MADE in Europe, and what is merely "Assembled in Europe, consisting of cheap Asian parts"¿?
I would like to see a political inititive which bans products made under conditions not allowed in Europe (or any other civilized part of the world); I mean, if some process is illegal because of local environment-laws, it should be equally illegal to import parts made by that same process, even it it was done in another part of the word. But again; How do you verify that? How do you uphold it?
For many items there IS no longer any European counterpart. All the businesses doing certain things have already closed. Like the textile industry.
And even if there was, and even if you could control it; Could you still pay for it with your current salary?

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline H0  
#242 Posted : 15 November 2016 18:08:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Even if you buy a loco "made in Germany", the decoder and other parts would most likely come from Asia anyway.
Yep. But it would be nice to know before purchase by legally requiring web shops to add the declaration of origin to their product description. And by requiring all manufacturers to put it on the box.

I bought three Märklin locos this year. The cheapest one has "Made in European Union" on the box, the second one was more expensive and has "Made in China" on the box, the most expensive loco has no declaration of origin on the box.
Did any of these purchases help to secure jobs in Göppingen?

And "Made in Germany" can still be 49% made in Asia. A change of legal requirements could lead to more transparency with respect to that.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline nitramretep  
#243 Posted : 15 November 2016 19:11:58(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
After receiving two expensive locomotives from a dealer that were made in China I now ask for the country of manufacture. If its China I do not purchase the product. Freight cars and carriages are one thing but locos are another. I also resent the Marklin self promoting of their EU manufacturing plants yet they sneak in these Chinese products, not exactly honest or good business practice. I WANT TO KNOW IF I AM SUPPORTING THE TRADE IMBALANCE AND NOT SUPPORTING EU WORKERS.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#244 Posted : 17 November 2016 14:21:34(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Likvid Go to Quoted Post
it's not really our responsibility to support and build up and wealth of the Asian market




Hello Likvid,

Yes it is ! BigGrin (we should be serious about this!)Wink

When you support the Chinese economy this allows China to buy more coal from Queensland, Australia (massive amounts of it - and much coking coal necessary for steel production), more iron ore (huge amounts) - predominantly from Western Australia (it is not all from Sweden in Märklin trucks!) , and also more fresh cherries (out of season in China), fresh milk (yes, flown into China!), cheese, wine, wool, abalone, lobster, oysters, smoked salmon, iron ore, zinc and aluminium from Tasmania.ThumpUp
No wonder that President Xi and his wife visited Tasmania - China is our biggest export market (by 30%) and tourist market.Blink
(Sorry if I have not mentioned any of my countrymen with much trade with China from other states).

So, "eat yer hearts out" and buy up all those Chinese-made locomotives so that we in Australia can afford to buy all those Märklin goodies !

Regards,


PJ LOL LOL LOL


P.S. I did enjoy my visit again to Sweden in July this year :


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Offline Collector  
#245 Posted : 23 November 2016 23:47:05(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: nitramretep Go to Quoted Post
After receiving two expensive locomotives from a dealer that were made in China I now ask for the country of manufacture. If its China I do not purchase the product. Freight cars and carriages are one thing but locos are another. I also resent the Marklin self promoting of their EU manufacturing plants yet they sneak in these Chinese products, not exactly honest or good business practice. I WANT TO KNOW IF I AM SUPPORTING THE TRADE IMBALANCE AND NOT SUPPORTING EU WORKERS.


I do the same thing however not being US based, it is difficult to find out where a model has been made and I resent that. This definitely slows down my spending on Marklin products. If there is any doubt, I don't buy.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline Collector  
#246 Posted : 23 November 2016 23:53:05(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Even if you buy a loco "made in Germany", the decoder and other parts would most likely come from Asia anyway.
Yep. But it would be nice to know before purchase by legally requiring web shops to add the declaration of origin to their product description. And by requiring all manufacturers to put it on the box.

I bought three Märklin locos this year. The cheapest one has "Made in European Union" on the box, the second one was more expensive and has "Made in China" on the box, the most expensive loco has no declaration of origin on the box.
Did any of these purchases help to secure jobs in Göppingen?

And "Made in Germany" can still be 49% made in Asia. A change of legal requirements could lead to more transparency with respect to that.


Tom,

I don't know why but I had the impression you are based in Europe. Did Marklin start printing a country of origin again on (some of) their boxes?

In one of the very few cases where the EU actually could have been useful, the EU parliament passed legislation to label products with a country of origin but it was blocked by the committee.

Fully agree that we as consumers should be able to make an INFORMED choice.

DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
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H0
Offline Jabez  
#247 Posted : 24 November 2016 02:51:04(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post

China is our biggest export market (by 30%) and tourist market.

It's a two-way trade too. When I first visited China in 1977, and it was like going to the moon in those days, what did I find when I climbed up onto the Great Wall, a couple of Aussies already up there.

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline H0  
#248 Posted : 24 November 2016 08:31:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Did Marklin start printing a country of origin again on (some of) their boxes?
I bought two Startup locos this year, bought in Germany.
The cheap one has "Made in European Union" printed on the box, the expensive one (36243) has "Made in China" printed on the box.

Still no "Made in ..." on grey or black Märklin "premium" boxes sold in Germany.

I met a company boss after the IMA and he told us he had heard from Mr Sieber that Märklin no longer produce items in China.
We told him that Märklin never produced items in China, but that the SBB Elephant and the bay S 2/6 were sold with "Made in China" stickers on the US market. I also mentioned the 36243.
He said he would ask Mr Sieber about it. I haven't met him again since then.

I'm always amazed about that effect: Märklin talk about mid-term reductions of China production - and Märklin fans understand that the China production ended long ago.
Would be interesting to hear what Mr Sieber told that company boss ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline xxup  
#249 Posted : 24 November 2016 09:10:15(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post

China is our biggest export market (by 30%) and tourist market.

...what did I find when I climbed up onto the Great Wall, a couple of Aussies already up there.


Yep.. You just missed the two Dutch fellows that were there before us.. LOL
Adrian
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Offline river6109  
#250 Posted : 24 November 2016 09:23:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post

China is our biggest export market (by 30%) and tourist market.

...what did I find when I climbed up onto the Great Wall, a couple of Aussies already up there.


Yep.. You just missed the two Dutch fellows that were there before us.. LOL


exactly, they were wearing climbing boots (made in Germany) and we were wearing thongs (made in China).

John
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https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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