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Offline rmsailor  
#101 Posted : 10 February 2016 15:33:16(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 569
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Rovex and early Tri-ang models were made from a soft plastic plastic material, cellulose acetate. Stresses in the moulding process resulted in the notorious "banana"coaches. From around 1956 this was replaced by the more stable high impact resistant polystyrene. Information from Pat Hammond's book, Tri-ang Railways, the story of Rovex, volume one, 1950-65.

Bob M.
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Offline Minok  
#102 Posted : 10 February 2016 17:16:44(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
As has been mentioned, the country if manufacturing doesn't directly relate to the quality of the product as much as quality control and manufacturing oversight. I have no problem with Märklin making product in Hungary or China. They need to retain a reasonable profit margin to stay in business. I'm sure their new investor owners understand that if the quality slides then their brand is dead and the company will likely go down the tubes. Apple's profit margin on its products made in China are very high; they could reduce prices and still make boatloads of profit. But they choose not to. Same with Märklin. If they cut prices when they switch a mature design to China that would cause perception problems. They may need to profit margin in the China and Hungary production to subsidize the cost of the production and design work that does take place in Germany. I'm fine with that. Focus on design and development and producing the newest product ideas and once they have the design and manufacturing design down move production.

As for printing trains, I doubt that is anywhere near possible. One might be able to print people and add on decorations if one intends to spend time finishing and painting the details but motors and the mechanical parts are bit printable. Mass production and assembly by an efficient and experienced process is likely always going to be the most efficient and quality way to go.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline mjrallare  
#103 Posted : 10 February 2016 18:11:41(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
As has been mentioned, the country if manufacturing doesn't directly relate to the quality of the product as much as quality control and manufacturing oversight.
...

And therein lies the problem IMHO. I don't think Märklin has the same control over the production in China of one of their locos as Apple has over the production of an Iphone.

I'm glad for all of you who haven't had any quality issues with Märklin during the last years. I've had a lot! Last year was an exception. But then again, I only bought one loco.

Why can't we have transparency from Märklin? On my Olympus 5ii it says "made in Vietnam", on my Fujifilm X100S it says "made in Japan" and even on my B+W filters it says "made in Germany". As I said in an earlier post in this thread, it's not irrelevant to me where a product is made. And I want to be able to include that in my purchasing decision. But, unlike Ray, I guess I'm prejudiced.

/Torbjörn
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Offline Minok  
#104 Posted : 10 February 2016 20:02:18(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: mjrallare Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
As has been mentioned, the country if manufacturing doesn't directly relate to the quality of the product as much as quality control and manufacturing oversight.
...

And therein lies the problem IMHO. I don't think Märklin has the same control over the production in China of one of their locos as Apple has over the production of an Iphone.

I'm glad for all of you who haven't had any quality issues with Märklin during the last years. I've had a lot! Last year was an exception. But then again, I only bought one loco.

Why can't we have transparency from Märklin? On my Olympus 5ii it says "made in Vietnam", on my Fujifilm X100S it says "made in Japan" and even on my B+W filters it says "made in Germany". As I said in an earlier post in this thread, it's not irrelevant to me where a product is made. And I want to be able to include that in my purchasing decision. But, unlike Ray, I guess I'm prejudiced.

/Torbjörn


Transparency is an issue. Remember when, and to some extent still on some products, the country of origin "Made in XXX" was part of the mold - it was integral to the physical part, usually on the bottom?

Since the dawn of time all of "made in China" has been via a cheap quality gold sticker attached to any product I've seen that has any indications about its China origin - so I have to peel it off and usually follow up with an adhesive remover. Its not been integral to the mold, nor the main plate/ manufacturer label attached to the product. That to me does say volumes. Thankfully I don't have to remove such stickers from my electronics from Apple - its not prominent but the iPhone 6plus says "Developed by Apple in California, Assembled in China" in the laser engraving in the tiny font on the backside bottom.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Goofy  
#105 Posted : 11 February 2016 09:24:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Why are you saying,that Märklin is made in China,when all parts in a locomotive is not made in China!??
Or do i have wrong...Flapper
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#106 Posted : 11 February 2016 10:26:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why are you saying,that Märklin is made in China,when all parts in a locomotive is not made in China!??
Or do i have wrong...Flapper
The "Made in China" sticker indicates that the loco was mostly made in China.
So maybe all metal parts were made an assembled in China, but maybe the decoder was assembled in Germany from parts made in Singapore, Malaysia, Korea, ...

Korea Brass are showing the Märklin bay S 2/6 on their site.
http://korea-brass.com/n...ew&page=&seq=104
We only can speculate where the CAD drawings were made, where the moulds were made, where the parts were made.

Is it 51% "Made in China" or is it 95% "Made in China"? How much is "Made in EU" and how much is "Made in Far East"? We don't know.

For rolling stock that was made in "co-operation" with other companies I assume that very little is done by Märklin. Did anybody see "Made in Romania" or "Made in Slovakia" on Märklin items? Or "Made in EU"?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline biedmatt  
#107 Posted : 11 February 2016 13:17:11(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Remember when, and to some extent still on some products, the country of origin "Made in XXX" was part of the mold - it was integral to the physical part, usually on the bottom?


I remember seeing "Made in West Germany" on my M lokos as a kid. This made me ask my dad if there was an East Germany. He replied "Yes, but you won't be seeing anything from there".
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#108 Posted : 11 February 2016 18:37:39(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why are you saying,that Märklin is made in China,when all parts in a locomotive is not made in China!??
Or do i have wrong...Flapper


As Tom (HO) has pointed out, the S2/6 is known to be made in China, and that fact was widely talked about on this forum at the time.

I fully expect the 37017 S2/6 Nurnberg Messe loco to be made in China also. It wouldn't make sense for marklin to make that in Germany when their partner is already set up to mass produce them.

Offline Minok  
#109 Posted : 11 February 2016 20:14:14(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why are you saying,that Märklin is made in China,when all parts in a locomotive is not made in China!??
Or do i have wrong...Flapper


Some Märklin product is made in China.

What part is, is not clear to me personally. I know that most wooden boxes in products these days come from China. So one possibility is that the box, the foam in it, are made in China and they the locomotive is place in it and boxed up and shipped out of China. Could also be the Loco itself is made in China as well.

On an S2/6 from another post on this forum found via Google Image Search.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Goofy  
#110 Posted : 11 February 2016 21:01:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Then in case...nothing at all is made of Germany anymore time.
All Märklins locomotive is there fore not quality of Germany.
I would say same thing about ESU...my V200 is also made in China. Laugh
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Minok  
#111 Posted : 11 February 2016 21:16:05(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Then in case...nothing at all is made of Germany anymore time.
All Märklins locomotive is there fore not quality of Germany.
I would say same thing about ESU...my V200 is also made in China. Laugh


I think something in what you are trying to express, is getting lost in the translation from your native language to English.
Its not clear, at least to me, what point you are trying to make.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline river6109  
#112 Posted : 11 February 2016 22:40:24(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Then in case...nothing at all is made of Germany anymore time.
All Märklins locomotive is there fore not quality of Germany.
I would say same thing about ESU...my V200 is also made in China. Laugh


I think something in what you are trying to express, is getting lost in the translation from your native language to English.
Its not clear, at least to me, what point you are trying to make.


What Anders is trying to express is from previous remarks, nothing is made in Germany anymore and therefore one can't say it is German quality anymore and he is comparing (Made in China) his ESU V 200 is also made in China which I assume he is hinting is made of quality and I can't say whether ESU is also claiming or suggesting "German Quality" and to some extend may has nothing to do with the topic itself.

I think the whole point with his post is: "German Quality" and the direct link with Märklin, whereas in the past Märklin was always referred to and claimed to be "German Quality" and it was based on a selling and buying point.

there are 2 issues I can see: Germans have always bought German made goods before buying foreign produced products and there is a kind of proudeness behind the manufacturing history, China has come a long way and in the past has copied ideas from other countries and still does but have now similar technology in place to match German manufacturing skills and the main aspect of this is they can produce it at a minimal cost.

What we've got to day is a dwindling model train industry, manufacturing costs and materials going up and a company can no longer be compatible to an ever increasing fine detail manufacturing process., who knows whether or not molding machines are made in Germany or not, the may be manufactured in China and this would ease the implementation of such tools and machinery and put less stress on capital expenditure.

from a company's point of view this makes sense and this allows them to keep their profits where they are but as other technology comes into the quotation such as CS 3 and the sound decoder development and other initiatives prices are going up and up.

by increasing prices, a company can establish a motto: buy it or leave it and if we go by past history when the beer price goes up, the ones that drink this stuff not many if any have stopped drinking or stopped buying beer cans or bottles to satisfy their passion for alcohol and in our case model trains. the ones who can't afford it anymore will be replaced by the ones who can afford, may be at a smaller number but they have to pay the extra for the enthusiasts who opted or dropped out of the market.

I'm sure the time will come when India comes into the market and we most probably see another shift in the manufacturing market and the more players are in the competition market, companies who use these manufacturing companies will benefit from it when prices could come down even further and profits margins go higher to compensate for a smaller model train enthusiast market.

I can understand someone raises the point: "German Quality" and queries the actual meaning of it but comparing it with >Made in China< and >Chinese Quality< or making reference to it, for somewhat obscure reasons, to indicate or suggest, the fact its no longer Germany Quality as per say but being made in China, the quality issue has been denigrated to a lesser standard and the question of prejudice arises, we are better, better qualified, better manufacturers, better than anybody else, we've got the best model train in the world, we may have got the best forum in the world, it is made from many different parts around the world and we have never queried the quality these members bring to the table. I wonder why ?

this topic and many others are becoming like a TV host panel show, talking about a lot of nothing, lots of allegations, rumours, assumptions and lots of opinion orientated references

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Minok  
#113 Posted : 12 February 2016 01:08:27(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Agree completely John.

Some posters are merely pointing out that the trains are being 'made' in different areas around the world, as evidenced by the identifying stickers on the product boxes.
Some posters are drawing conclusions about the quality of those products based on their 'made in' origin - whether that is justified or not.
Some posters are arguing about the price that should be attributed to a product based on where it is made, regardless of its quality and cost of content; there is a whole business field around pricing and the way you price vs the value to a consumer.

China, as a source of product, does have some self inflicted wounds to overcome; there is certainly a stigma that is associated with them, rightly or wrongly, because some bad actors are in fact causing the whole bunch to be painted a bit with the same broad brush. We all likely have some experience with cheaply made products that break and where they may have been manufactured. Sometimes its China, sometimes its Rumania, and sometimes it Germany as well.

Here in the United States there have been incidents of peoples pets (dogs, cats) dieing from being poisoned by pet food and pet treats. The investigation found that the raw material suppliers in China, supplying to a Chinese plant, were adding chemicals to the pet food base so that the product they delivered to the plant would test higher in some nutritional value test, and thus demand a higher price. That chemical poisoned many animals in the final product. The willingness, of a supplier, to taint a product in committing fraud, with the end result being killing living creatures, indicated, at least to me, a cultural view that didn't have the moral position of finding such action repugnant. I don't think a western nation would have ever considered that. Now that may be because of a weakness in the legal and police systems in China so the manufacturer thought they could get away with it, vs in the west we feel we would surely be caught ( IE we could in the US have just as unscrupulous folks, but they don't try for fear of being caught). But that incident tainted products made in China in my mind such that I will double verify and generally not buy any packaged food items if I can avoid it.

Germany has suffered a similar damage to its reputation in the Volkswagen scandal where mid level managers and engineers, under the pressures to meet schedule and constrain costs, decided to fake the emissions testing systems out, and implemented it in millions of engines that are in cars around the world, primarily because they felt they would not get caught. That has destroyed a substantial amount of trust in German engineering.

I value this forums ability for us to debate an issue, knowing its not going to solve any particular issue, if for no other reason, I can get some insight into how others think and feel about topics, and I can end up changing my point of view.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline river6109  
#114 Posted : 12 February 2016 03:01:38(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
slightly off topic

Thomas, today what used to be manufactured in Germany is no longer, there are so many ex German products which are no longer produced there, it could be Italy, France, Spain you name it and nobody is surprised anymore, I think today you have to take things on face value, a name doesn't mean anything anymore, quality is a word like guarantee and advertising is for the fairies, if you believe in them. you can't go in any story anymore without seeing a sales ticket on each item, now when was the last time you had a quality cigarette ? quality beer, quality fruit, quality vegetables, quality meat and if you don't prepare your own fresh food you buy groceries full of chemicals and preservatives., quality car (you don't buy a car to day because it has got an engine and 4 tyres, no you buy a car because it has a bluetooth connection, it can fit all the family and animals into your car when you drive to the North Pole, or the desert, or the beach, or the rugged mountain road., quality fridge or freezer, dishwasher and the list goes on. we are being told it is better to fix an old fridge or freezer than buy a new one. air-crafts are being build today and the people building it said they'll never fly in them, quality control just isn't there anymore and how many people have been killed in airline disasters because the lack of quality control.
We most probably change our view constantly when it comes to quality, if I wouldn't have super glue my life wouldn't be the same, I would miss the quality time I spend fixing things.

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#115 Posted : 12 February 2016 08:29:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
That chemical poisoned many animals in the final product. The willingness, of a supplier, to taint a product in committing fraud, with the end result being killing living creatures, indicated, at least to me, a cultural view that didn't have the moral position of finding such action repugnant. I don't think a western nation would have ever considered that.
I have a scandal for you: https://en.wikipedia.org...lene_glycol_wine_scandal
It happened in Europe and the potential victims were human beings. A single bottle of wine could have killed a person. No casualties were reported, but who knows how many were not recognized and how many became sick in the long run.

Last year Burger King had a scandal about post-dated food - in Germany. Don't throw it away, use a label with a later date. 89 restaurants run by a single Franchise were closed for a while.
Same behaviour was found in super markets.

We often hear that Chinese have a different cultural background with respect to hygiene and such, but laziness and scrupulous money-making can be found all over the world. Or pressure from the boss/the company.


Product tests often show that cheap products are amongst the best and expensive products amongst the worst. You cannot tell quality from the price, nor from the brand name, nor from the country of origin.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#116 Posted : 12 February 2016 09:27:07(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
A Märklin locomotive which is made in China do have chinese quality and not german.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#117 Posted : 12 February 2016 09:35:48(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Cheers Everybody.

To my mind, the “Made in China” issue with Marklin (or “Made in Korea” or “Made in … I don’t know where) is an issue of credibility and “honesty”. I would even dare to say that I find certain similarities with the VW fraud scandal (to an immensely smaller scale). You think (or you are manipulated to think) that you are buying an item with certain characteristics and in reality you buy something else.
I really don’t care where each loco is made, as long as I am 100% informed. Then I can make my choice. Then I am allowed to judge the quality - price ratio and make my choice.

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline mjrallare  
#118 Posted : 12 February 2016 20:19:18(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Hi again. I would like to add a couple of things to my earlier posts.

When I buy an Olympus product made in, for example China or Vietnam, I know that Olympus is in control of the production in those countries. I will receive a good quality product because Olympus "is in charge" of how it's made. Sadly I think Märklin is a far to small player to be able to excercise the same kind of control. To my understanding it's control issues that have led to Märklin pulling (some/most) production out of China (quality issues and problems with delivery times).

Why is "made in China" important and what is a "genuine" Märklin product? Naturally, we all have different views on that. For me it's like this:

  • A loco made by Märklin in Göppingen in the sixties is to me a "genuine" (A+) Märklin product.

  • A loco made by Märklin in Göppingen today is to me a "genuine" (A) Märklin product even though it may contain many parts made elsewhere.

  • A loco made/assembled in Györ is for me a Märklin product (A-).

  • A loco made in China for Märklin by another company is not a Märklin product to me even though design and some parts might be from Göppingen.

  • Those Spy-tech products that was labeled Märklin a couple of years ago is certainly not Märklin products to me.

Please note that I've written "to me"!

I'm not so emotional when it comes to other stuff. I really don't care where my phone is made for example. I do however care if it's made by people working under lousy conditions. A bit to my surprise there actually is such a thing as a fair-trade smartphone.

/Torbjörn
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Offline H0  
#119 Posted : 12 February 2016 22:01:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mjrallare Go to Quoted Post
To my understanding it's control issues that have led to Märklin pulling (some/most) production out of China (quality issues and problems with delivery times).
We often heard from Märklin that "some" production was moved from China to Europe. AFAIR they never said "most".

I don't know where the majority of Märklin products are made (I guess this would be "Made in Europe", at least for rolling stock only), but I have to assume that the majority of production that was moved to China still remains in China. I faintly remember reading that 10% were moved back, leading to 50 new jobs in Hungary. Maybe they moved more since then.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Mark_1602  
#120 Posted : 13 February 2016 15:08:50(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


I don't know where the majority of Märklin products are made (I guess this would be "Made in Europe", at least for rolling stock only), but I have to assume that the majority of production that was moved to China still remains in China. I faintly remember reading that 10% were moved back, leading to 50 new jobs in Hungary. Maybe they moved more since then.


Hi,

Märklin's factory in Györ has been expanded twice in the last six years, in 2011 and 2014. Each time, a new building was added and 50 additional workers were hired.

Hungary Extension 2011
Hungary Extension 2014
Märklin 2016

The total number of Märklin workers in Europe has gone up by at least 100, but obviously that's not enough to produce all the Märklin items that were made in China before 2011. On the other hand, sales have fallen by over 10 per cent since then, so there's less of a need to produce in China due to lack of capacity.

I can't remember seeing gauge 1 items in production at Göppingen or Györ on Märklin TV, so most of that is probably not made in Europe, as well as some H0 items.

Two days ago, I bought a Brio train for my daughter. It's made in China too, but quality is better than Märklin MyWorld, and Brio openly tells you where it's made. In the local toyshop, we looked at a MyWorld starter set first. I opened the box and noticed that all of the printing had been forgotten. The train was monochrome blue! No thanks, that's not Märklin for me!!

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#121 Posted : 13 February 2016 15:51:02(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,862
Location: CA, USA
Lets take this conversation out of the Marklin bubble, and play a game:

Ask yourself the answer to the same question with the following luxury vehicles.

Question 1: "is it a "real" brand xxx product?
Question 2: Knowing the location of manufacture, would you buy it if you were in the market for one?

Number 1: An Aston Martin made in America
Number 2: A Triumph motorcycle made in Thailand
Number 3: A Ducati Motorcycle made in Brazil
Number 4: A Porsche made in Bratislava
Number 5: A Ferrari made in Australia
Number 7: A Lamborghini made in Germany
Number 8: A Bentley made in Japan
Number 9: A Volvo made in China

Some of the above are true, some not at all, and some partially true. (I'll elaborate later)

I'll let this sit and once a few responses post we can compare the logic to Marklin :)
SBB Era 2-5
Offline H0  
#122 Posted : 13 February 2016 16:13:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Lets take this conversation out of the Marklin bubble
My "problem" is the perpetual China bashing coming from the market leader. M* fan boys often write in fora that M* gave up production in China long ago - they misunderstand the perpetual China bashing from a company that still cannot do without products "Made in China", despite all the bashing.


I bought something from a competitor recently. On the front side is a big logo "Rokuhan Japan", on the back side is a small print "Made in China".


It would help with transparency if web shops were required to indicate place of origin with every product. Is there any country that requires that?

If place of origin is important for the purchase, then it should be known before an order is placed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mjrallare  
#123 Posted : 13 February 2016 19:26:58(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Lets take this conversation out of the Marklin bubble, and play a game:

Ask yourself the answer to the same question with the following luxury vehicles.

Question 1: "is it a "real" brand xxx product?
Question 2: Knowing the location of manufacture, would you buy it if you were in the market for one?

...

I'll let this sit and once a few responses post we can compare the logic to Marklin :)


If, for example, a Porsche 911 was built in China by an unknown company and the production-process were outside the control of the Volkswagen-group my answers would be:

Question 1: No
Question 2: No

That would be comparing the logic to Märklin IMHO.

/Torbjörn
Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#124 Posted : 13 February 2016 21:39:38(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Hello Everybody.

Well ... I can not hide that I am very curious to discover (just to satisfy my curiosity) the country of origin of my (only) two locomotives. I have the 37116 and the 37938 Borsig Edition 1. I am wondering if anybody of you dear friends outside Europe, have these steamers. Is there a "Made in China" streaker on them. You can tell me the hard truth .... I can handle it (I hope) .... BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

I am just joking. I am very happy with them. I am just curious!!!

As for your quiz 5HorizonsRR, I would gladly buy an Aston Martin made in the States and a Lambo from Germany. A Bentley from Japan would not heart me either. On everything else though, I think I would pass.

Cheers.

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Offline Mark_1602  
#125 Posted : 14 February 2016 10:27:52(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

My "problem" is the perpetual China bashing coming from the market leader. M* fan boys often write in fora that M* gave up production in China long ago - they misunderstand the perpetual China bashing from a company that still cannot do without products "Made in China", despite all the bashing.


Why do you keep blaming Märklin fans? We're not responsible for that company's mistakes. Obviously, their China bashing is silly because so many Märklin products made in the last 15 years were produced there, not in Märklin factories. Since the well-publicised cases of the new Nohabs and the S 2/6, I haven't read any posts in MRR forums saying that "M* gave up production in China long ago", so your claim isn't true.

About 4-6 years ago, Mr Pluta and later Mr Löbich announced that Märklin would phase out production in China. Can you blame people for believing that at the time? Nobody does now. You keep on repeating that Märklin fans misunderstand things or do not realize that they are buying third-party products, but it isn't difficult to find the exotic-looking Danish beer cars that Märklin announced in 2015 and 2016 or the Tillig tank cars on those manufacturers' websites. Märklin customers also found out quickly that the new Nohabs and the S 2/6 were made in China, but the point is that most of those who bought the S 2/6 are very happy with it and don't care where it came from.

Märklin's new Nohab/AFB diesel engines were less convincing, so customers had more complaints. By the way, do you know that the CFL and the SNCB versions as they were delivered are not prototypical at all? The large horizontal ventilator grids on each side were dark in era III, not painted green or red-brown. Märklin got it right in the news catalogue, but the Chinese factory simplified the livery by painting them green (SNCB) respectively red-brown (CFL), so those two versions look wrong even at a distance of 10 metres. I have a Belgian magazine with old colour photos from the 1950s that proves it. The strange thing is that no Märklin critic on any forum has understood that, as they only know about German prototypes.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline river6109  
#126 Posted : 14 February 2016 10:52:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Mark,

there have been more abnormalities with Märklin locos and I don't think anybody has ever noticed it or mentioned it, all your Co-Co locos (diesel or electric) the middle axle never touched the rail with other words your Co-Co loco was really a Bo-Bo loco when it came to traction power (BR 03, BR 103, BR 194, BR 94, BR 151, all Nohab locos,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#127 Posted : 14 February 2016 17:45:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Since the well-publicised cases of the new Nohabs and the S 2/6, I haven't read any posts in MRR forums saying that "M* gave up production in China long ago", so your claim isn't true.
IIRC there were two such posts on Facebook recently (but I don't know how to search on FB).
IIRC there were two such posts on Stummi's Forum, but I could find only one today (the other one might have been deleted by the auto-prune feature they often use for critical threads).
One post is here:
http://stummiforum.de/vi...c.php?p=1350689#p1350689

Quote: "Später war (wieder im Handelsblatt)von einer Pressekonferenz vom Konkursverwalter Pluta und Neubesitzer Fa. Simba/Dickie zu lesen .in
der verkündet wurde,daß man nichts mehr aus Fernost bezieht,anscheinend will man zukünftigen Ärger mit Zinkbruch vermeiden."
Interesting variation: No more "Made in China" to avoid zincpest. Production in China is not over, but I hope they found means against the zincpest.


Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
About 4-6 years ago, Mr Pluta and later Mr Löbich announced that Märklin would phase out production in China.
Where did they say that? I don't recall such statements. Herr Löbich said on Märklin TV that it was impossible to pull completely out of China.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#128 Posted : 14 February 2016 18:14:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Herr Löbich said on Märklin TV that it was impossible to pull completely out of China.


It´s not impossible.
Just move back to Germany.
It´s all matter about the cost of produce with the trains.
In Germany Märklin trains will get more expensive in products,by produce in Germany.
That´s way Märklin won´t move out from the China.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Armando  
#129 Posted : 14 February 2016 19:32:52(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,350
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

My "problem" is the perpetual China bashing coming from the market leader. M* fan boys often write in fora that M* gave up production in China long ago - they misunderstand the perpetual China bashing from a company that still cannot do without products "Made in China", despite all the bashing.


Märklin customers also found out quickly that the new Nohabs and the S 2/6 were made in China, but the point is that most of those who bought the S 2/6 are very happy with it and don't care where it came from.

Märklin's new Nohab/AFB diesel engines were less convincing, so customers had more complaints. By the way, do you know that the CFL and the SNCB versions as they were delivered are not prototypical at all? The large horizontal ventilator grids on each side were dark in era III, not painted green or red-brown. Märklin got it right in the news catalogue, but the Chinese factory simplified the livery by painting them green (SNCB) respectively red-brown (CFL), so those two versions look wrong even at a distance of 10 metres. I have a Belgian magazine with old colour photos from the 1950s that proves it. The strange thing is that no Märklin critic on any forum has understood that, as they only know about German prototypes.

Best regards,
Mark


The first series of the Seetal Kroks suffered from zinkpest. I purchased all of the Nohabs, which were made in China, last year. All US-cars are still being made in China. The new 37015 S/2 Bavarian Lok and 36332 SBB Double-Switcher pack -my most recent acquisitions- were made in China. Should I worry?

Will Der Elefant be made in China?


Best regards,
Armando García

Offline kiwiAlan  
#130 Posted : 14 February 2016 20:46:47(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Armando Go to Quoted Post

Will Der Elefant be made in China?


I won't be surprised if it is. It would be an ideal candidate for a similar treatment to the S2/6 - premium model with a lot of added detailing.

Offline Armando  
#131 Posted : 14 February 2016 21:16:22(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,350
Location: Houston, Texas
Is the Bavarian G 5/5 made in China too?
I have been holding off buying this locomotive, until it finally comes out in its original Era I livery one fine day.
Best regards,
Armando García

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#132 Posted : 14 February 2016 21:58:10(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
There was an interview with Mr. Bächle in the German "Rems-Zeitung" two years ago (01/01/2014). A synopsis regarding his statements regarding the future engagement in the Far East:

Since 2009 Maerklin is consequently reducing the Far East engagement. LGB already returned home and in the meantime 100% of Z gauge are produced in Göppingen and Györ. By 2014/2015 N gauge production is supposed to be returned completely. Referring to Maerklin´s sophisticated production processes, he stated that everything will be made to a lesser extent in China; prices in China are increasing permanently and extremely, and quality is by far not according to what is to be expected from Maerklin; it happened that deliveries had been delayed up to two years. Above all returning "production portfolio" and strategic development to Göppingen and Györ are indeed a strategic decision. The complete development - development documentation and the entire know-how - stays with Maerklin and will not be divulged to the outside. Only simple battery operated trains ("Einfachzüge im Batteriesegment") and independent special articles ("unabhängige Sonderartikel") are to be produced in China.

Source (German only): http://remszeitung.de/20...n-jahren-einiges-erlebt/
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Offline H0  
#133 Posted : 14 February 2016 22:14:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
LGB already returned home and in the meantime 100% of Z gauge are produced in Göppingen and Györ.
Problem is that Märklin sells more than 100%. I bet the Z scale locos made in co-operation with AZL are neither made in Göppingen nor in Győr. AZL production facilities are in the USA and in China.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Minok  
#134 Posted : 14 February 2016 22:32:25(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
So as I'm building my collection from zero, my first 3 boxes of cars have arrived to complement my first locomotive of my Era IV build-out.

The new sets, and the slightly older BR103 all say "Made in Hungary" while the older set that just arrived, the 43858, said "Made in China".
But they all look and feel like they are equally high quality and I have no problem with any of them.


train.jpg
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Mark_1602  
#135 Posted : 14 February 2016 23:02:51(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

IIRC there were two such posts on Stummi's Forum, but I could find only one today (the other one might have been deleted by the auto-prune feature they often use for critical threads).
One post is here:
http://stummiforum.de/vi...c.php?p=1350689#p1350689


Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
About 4-6 years ago, Mr Pluta and later Mr Löbich announced that Märklin would phase out production in China.
Where did they say that? I don't recall such statements. Herr Löbich said on Märklin TV that it was impossible to pull completely out of China.


Hi,

Well, you didn't find many quotes. The guy who wrote that was told by his dealer, and he believed him. I'm a member in three MRR forums, and the critical or somewhat skeptical voices seem to outnumber the unconditional supporters in each of them. Most Märklin fans don't trust the company the way they did 10 or 20 years ago, and some wait until reviews of new models are available before they buy. That's what I do as well now in the case of new tooling locomotives.

Mr Pluta said right at the beginning that the China production "had to stop", and I remember one Märklin TV episode in which Mr Löbich made customers believe that it would be phased out. Neither of them made a firm commitment or an unrestricted statement, but they knew that their words would have the desired effect. Now it's all backfired, and the trust is gone. I don't take Märklin's statements seriously anymore, but I observe what happens on the ground.

As sales gradually fall, production capacity in Europe will move closer to total output. I hope they'll produce the next Nohab versions in Europe ...

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline xxup  
#136 Posted : 14 February 2016 23:12:33(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
.... Most Märklin fans don't trust the company the way they did 10 or 20 years ago, and some wait until reviews of new models are available before they buy...


Yes I do too, but then I go and buy the Thalys and Donald Duck railcars based on pure emotion.. RollEyes

Edited by user 15 February 2016 04:22:21(UTC)  | Reason: Leave out the backet and your world falls apart..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline mrmarklin  
#137 Posted : 14 February 2016 23:57:48(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 890
Location: Burney, CA
Last fall I was told at a private dinner that there would be Far East production for the foreseeable future. The person I spoke with is in a position to know this for a fact. He stated that while much production has been pulled back, one or two engines per year would be produced by a reliable supplier that has been found. The S 2/6 was produced by this manufacturer.

I think that certain successful production will remain there, but I believe that the vast majority will be European.

Realistically, there must be certain production in the Far East for competitive purposes.Crying
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline shannon  
#138 Posted : 15 February 2016 03:39:59(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 337
Location: Taipei,
When we discuss " where is made " we shall ask ourself it is simply a psychological factor or quality factor.
In general, most of people care about this question due to psychological factor which reflects your feeling or veiwpoint to this country. You may insist China is less human right, non-democratic, low labored condition....but it is not equivalent to the lower quality of products.

If you complain the wrong assembly, "China" and chinese shall be blamed due to the factory and Chinese in China . If you complain the wrong design, "China" is innocent because the wrong design comes from Göppingen.

Volks Wagon (abbr. VW) was a well-known manufacturer of automobile with affordable pricing and high quality before the fake event of CO2 emission. We also know most of VW car producing come from Germany but we will not consider German and other brands of Germany as fake, and vice versa.
Offline xxup  
#139 Posted : 15 February 2016 04:24:26(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: shannon Go to Quoted Post
...We also know most of VW car producing come from Germany but we will not consider German and other brands of Germany as fake, and vice versa.


That's true.. As a Volkswagen owner I call it fraud.. Much much worse than fake!
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline sjbartels  
#140 Posted : 15 February 2016 04:32:59(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
My understanding from conversations with my local dealer, is that all locomotive and rolling stock manufacturing has been moved to Goeppingham and Hungary. I imaging that the basic stuff that they can "farm out" will still be done in China and the like, but actual locomotives and rolling stock was being shifted. I know all of my locomotives have Made in Hungary and Made in Germany on them.
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline 3rail4life  
#141 Posted : 15 February 2016 05:25:09(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
I was very surprised to see this one...
Cool
Offline H0  
#142 Posted : 15 February 2016 07:57:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
I was very surprised to see this one...
Some chips and electronic components may be made in Germany, but the majority probably comes from all over the world. "Assembled in Germany" might be the better description. Another question is where in Germany it is made.


Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
My understanding from conversations with my local dealer, is that all locomotive and rolling stock manufacturing has been moved to Goeppingham and Hungary. I imaging that the basic stuff that they can "farm out" will still be done in China and the like, but actual locomotives and rolling stock was being shifted. I know all of my locomotives have Made in Hungary and Made in Germany on them.
It seems the members of this forum know better than some dealers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#143 Posted : 15 February 2016 14:15:11(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
My understanding from conversations with my local dealer, is that all locomotive and rolling stock manufacturing has been moved to Goeppingham and Hungary. I imaging that the basic stuff that they can "farm out" will still be done in China and the like, but actual locomotives and rolling stock was being shifted. I know all of my locomotives have Made in Hungary and Made in Germany on them.


You obviously do not own an S2/6 then ... RollEyes

Offline Goofy  
#144 Posted : 15 February 2016 16:59:42(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
An typical explanation where is made by off... BigGrin
It´s Roco short couple made of plastic and much better than Märklins.

DSC_0004_220.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline waorb  
#145 Posted : 15 February 2016 17:00:36(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil

Curious that the sticker (paper) and the font type are the same on all of them...
(ok, except one example above from China)

I have one example of the "Chinese" sticker, already on this thread....

https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/m482967-Marklin-made-in-China#post482967

Seems that all boxes are made on those respective countries and then "stickered" in Germany...

Cheers,

Walter



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Offline H0  
#146 Posted : 15 February 2016 22:01:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Well, you didn't find many quotes.
If you want more ...
Facebook group of this forum, posted 20. Januar um 09:45 by "Mihály M." (name's been changed to protect the innocent): "Go for Märklin. Made in EU only (Germany, Hungary)"
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Mark_1602  
#147 Posted : 16 February 2016 22:07:21(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
If you want more ...
Facebook group of this forum, posted 20. Januar um 09:45 by "Mihály M." (name's been changed to protect the innocent): "Go for Märklin. Made in EU only (Germany, Hungary)"


Hi,

My impressions were based on MRR forums as I'm not on Facebook. The slogan "Go for Märklin" sounds like an advert, so might this be a professional dealer or a company employee under cover? On one German forum I'm a member of, there's one guy who defends Märklin so aggressively and unconditionally that I wonder what his background or motivation is. You know who I mean because you're a member of that forum too.

In my opinion, a Märklin fan would tell others that he really likes the company's products, but that those who don't aren't obliged to buy any Märklin products. That's a comment I've read many times and have made myself. Go for Märklin?? Sounds suspicious to me because I haven't come across that on MRR forums. On top of that, several posts in this thread suggest that dealers from different countries seem to tell customers that all M* products are made in the EU (which isn't true). Why are they doing that? Last spring, I visited a MRR weekend market in Luxembourg and briefly talked to a professional dealer. He also tried to tell me something similar, but he didn't get very far. Are there more official dealers who spread that 'message' or is this just a coincidence?

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline AshleyH  
#148 Posted : 17 February 2016 14:46:51(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 693
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
My two pennies worth......

If I am honest the thing that first attracted me to Marklin was not 'where' it was made, but 'how' it was made.
The heavy metal construction, the quality electronics, digital with sounds long before DCC 2 rail caught up etc.

Yes, it was also nice to see and believe 'Made in Germany', but it honestly matters more how it is made and the quality of the components and decoration, to me at least.

I have a model railway friend who for a time worked at a dealership for a certain well known German motorcycle manufacturer. This was a decade or so ago, but many of the spare parts came in boxes with 'Made in China' labels.

My most recent Marklin loco, a 39550 G5/5 was apparently 'Made in Germany', but it had to be immediately replaced by the dealer due to a manufacturing fault. As much as I love the loco, the plastic handrails on the cab and tender are wavy and appear too long. The second loco is better than the first in this respect, but not really acceptable on a 450 Euro loco.

Just my opinion....

Best Regards
Ashley
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#149 Posted : 18 February 2016 21:57:59(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
My two pennies worth......

If I am honest the thing that first attracted me to Marklin was not 'where' it was made, but 'how' it was made.
The heavy metal construction, the quality electronics, digital with sounds long before DCC 2 rail caught up etc.

Yes, it was also nice to see and believe 'Made in Germany', but it honestly matters more how it is made and the quality of the components and decoration, to me at least.

I have a model railway friend who for a time worked at a dealership for a certain well known German motorcycle manufacturer. This was a decade or so ago, but many of the spare parts came in boxes with 'Made in China' labels.

My most recent Marklin loco, a 39550 G5/5 was apparently 'Made in Germany', but it had to be immediately replaced by the dealer due to a manufacturing fault. As much as I love the loco, the plastic handrails on the cab and tender are wavy and appear too long. The second loco is better than the first in this respect, but not really acceptable on a 450 Euro loco.




Ashley, the 39550 G5/5 is (or better ... was) a candidate to be my next locomotive. Since I saw your post, I searched as many photographs of 39550 as I could. All the 39550 have bend handrails as your first model. This is totally unacceptable for a Marklin model. I also searched on Stummis Forum and discovered that many German Marklinists had the same problem. Obviously the handrails are too long to fit on the drilled holes. When they are forced in .... they just bend (and quality control ... is nowhere near).

I had a similar problem with the hopper set 46803 (supposed to complement the G5/5). When I opened the set all the bumpers of all the wagons where either bent (looking up, or down, or left, or right) or completely broken. I returned immediately the set to my dealer for replacement. He had in stock two more sets (all new). The first of them had the same problem (thankfully the second was o.k.). Don't know where the G5/5 or my hopper set are made, .... China, Germany Hungary ... What I know is that if they are labeled as Marklin products they must have Marklin quality. Otherwise the label will stop having any value at all. Mellow


Kind Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline Deborail  
#150 Posted : 19 February 2016 08:05:23(UTC)
Deborail

United Arab Emirates   
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 819
Location: RAK
If Marklin can produce products in China, to the same standard of those produced in Germany, then the issue of where it made is not relevant.

I have several Chinese locomotives and wagons made by Bachmann China and they are models of actual Chinese locomotives. Their quality is outstanding too. The question is not the nation where the product is manufactured, it is the standard to which it is manufactured. If China can provide the facilities and manpower for production of foreign goods that meet or exceed the standards, then it is up to the manufacturer to opt to do so.
George

Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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