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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2016 03:54:04(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
The low speed of Marklin trains is an old problem for me.

I find that most Marklin locos are quite a bit slower than 2 rail locos, TGV trains excepted (I think) and a few others.

I don't mind this too much if the speed is not too low. For example, I buy a loco that runs at a notional track speed of say 75 kms/hr; that is not so bad. The speed example is simply as an illustration, I certainly have no means to measure it.

However, I often find that the same locos with time slow down even more after some use and depending upon, maybe, temperature differences in my basement (where the trains run). My basement is a few degrees colder than the upstairs so in winter I have to use baseboard heaters to supplement the main gas heat. That is when the problem seems pop up.

The speed goes down to maybe 40 kms/hr, maybe less, Woot so that it is no fun to watch them run. But the locos run smoothly, just more slowly.

The 2 rail locos don't seem to be so affected, maybe because they already run at a higher speed of 100 kms/hr or faster.

Sometimes, the locos pick up speed; not while they are running, but after weeks have gone by. No real explanation as to why.

Question:
is it possible to increase the speed by buying a booster to give more power to the tracks and,hopefully, have the locos run faster? If not, is there some realistic solution to the problem?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.ThumpUp
Offline mrmarklin  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2016 05:35:08(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 889
Location: Burney, CA
My experience is that almost all Marklin Loks more than a few years old are in fact over geared and run much too fast. 40kph is very slow speed in the model world, and even 100kph scale per hour is not very fast when observed on a layout.

I have noticed that the more recent production Loks are much more prototypical. Steamers in regular service rarely ran much faster than 100kph except on certain routes.

Marklin made a speed measurement car 49960. It's handy.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline baggio  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2016 05:47:52(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
These locos are fairly recent; one I bought a few months ago.

Is there a way to SPEED them up?
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 05 February 2016 08:02:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Baggio,

Maybe you should measure the speed first and compare it with the prototype speed and the NEM standards.
A stopwatch and two marks on a straight track will do.

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
is it possible to increase the speed by buying a booster to give more power to the tracks and,hopefully, have the locos run faster?
Normally not. A booster will allow the locos to draw more amps, but the voltage will not necessarily increase and then the locos will not draw more power.

With increased track voltage, locos will draw more power, but motors will wear off faster.
With low temperatures, oil and grease will be thicker. Load regulation should compensate this, but some locos may run slower.

How do you power your layout?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 05 February 2016 09:01:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have found that my analogue locos and digital locos with unregulated decoders, such as Delta or 6080, demonstrate this slowing down behaviour. I usually associate this with hardening of the oil.

When this is the case I find that running them for a few minutes increases the speed as the oil warms up. Sometimes I find I have to apply some fresh oil, but I am reluctant to do so unless the loco is making screeching noises because of the risk of over-oiling.

When it comes to the speed of trains running on the layout, my own preference is probably the opposite. I like to see the trains run slowly, especially through the station. In the real world even large expresses rarely run at full speed in the vicinity of stations, and this is what I try to copy.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline amartinezv  
#6 Posted : 05 February 2016 09:32:12(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 319
Location: Madrid,
Hello

It is surprising but it seems to me the exact opposite. I think the locomotives run too fast. Both before analogue and digital now. Normally I set the maximum speed of the locomotive between 50% and 75% of its maximum value.

This is a video where you can watch a speed profile in my layout, from minute 2:17 onwards is the speed profile, and from the minute 7:36 high speed 150 km / h scale




best regards

Edited by moderator 07 February 2016 06:18:17(UTC)  | Reason: Added Youtube tags

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline DTaylor91  
#7 Posted : 05 February 2016 12:16:50(UTC)
DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
These locos are fairly recent; one I bought a few months ago.

Is there a way to SPEED them up?


Assuming you are running digitally, if you go into the controller to: EDIT LOC, you can scroll through and find out if the maximum velocity is set to 100% or not. If it's already at 100%, you won't be able to make it go faster.

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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 05 February 2016 14:11:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Earlier threads about need for speed:
https://www.marklin-user...ding-up-locos#post391400
https://www.marklin-user...peed-variance#post365937

Originally Posted by: DTaylor91 Go to Quoted Post
Assuming you are running digitally, if you go into the controller to: EDIT LOC, you can scroll through and find out if the maximum velocity is set to 100% or not. If it's already at 100%, you won't be able to make it go faster.
With some decoders (e.g. all mfx decoders) there are other CVs that can make a loco slower, but Märklin locos should have the physical maximum speed after a factory reset.

But as long as we talk about estimated speed and not measured speed there is no way to tell whether the speed of the locos is normal or too low.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#9 Posted : 05 February 2016 14:24:34(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Thank you all for your feedback.

The locos go at around "paso 2" in amartinezv's great video BigGrin

I love the top speed. Maybe I should hunt for this loco and have it digitized. ThumpUp

For me, watching a loco go by at "paso 2" would be a great way to fall asleep, fast. Woot

I am using both a MS1 and an analogue transformer. No noticeable difference.

The idea of adding oil and the concern of adding too much, as Ray pointed out, occurred to me, too. But the locos do not show any improvement over time during the run.
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Offline amartinezv  
#10 Posted : 05 February 2016 22:37:34(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 319
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Thank you all for your feedback.

The locos go at around "paso 2" in amartinezv's great video BigGrin

For me, watching a loco go by at "paso 2" would be a great way to fall asleep, fast. Woot

I am using both a MS1 and an analogue transformer. No noticeable difference.

.


Hello

If the maximum speed is the "paso 2"=" step 2"(speed goes from step 0= stop, step 1 very slooow, to step 14, top speed) then there's something wrong in your installation, Also it could be possible that the values of inertia (braking time and acceleration time) are very high. I think that you should open your locos or tell us references to know what kind of decoder the loco have, and try to adjust (if possible) top speed. Also you should measure the output of your trafo with a digital multimeter, and /or the output of a MS1, in both cases you should read about 16-18 V, if the value is below of this, that's the problem.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline mrmarklin  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2016 06:07:52(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 889
Location: Burney, CA
I just tested my class 56 steamer. This is recent production for 2015. I had already adjusted the top speed because I perceived it running too fast. Today I decided to measure the speed using 49960 measurement car. The top speed registered 85 kph. The manual stated that the top speed should be 70 kph. This caused me to make an adjustment in the top speed CV to 155 (max is 255).

IMHO most Loks run too fast!Huh
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 07 February 2016 15:05:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mrmarklin Go to Quoted Post
I just tested my class 56 steamer. This is recent production for 2015. I had already adjusted the top speed because I perceived it running too fast. Today I decided to measure the speed using 49960 measurement car. The top speed registered 85 kph. The manual stated that the top speed should be 70 kph. This caused me to make an adjustment in the top speed CV to 155 (max is 255).

IMHO most Loks run too fast!Huh


About the only ones I know of that are considered to run slow are the original analogue Red Arrow Swiss railcar.

I don't know if later versions were reworked to run faster.

Offline baggio  
#13 Posted : 08 February 2016 04:11:29(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I just had a really troubling experience with the speed of a Marklin loco.

When I started out in digital, a couple of years ago, I bought a construction starter set that had a little diesel loco that runs very nicely. BigGrin

I then decided to buy the EXACT SAME LOCOMOTIVE, only in a different colour and to my disappointment it ran at half the speed! ThumbDown

Nothing made it go faster since the speed was already set at 100%.

Fortunately, Mike took it back and I bought instead four US wagons BigGrin which I pull by my 30000 or my FS424 along with other US freight cars and DB cars I had bought from him: they look great together!!! ThumpUp
(So much for the "segregation" required by some hobbyists ....Wink )

HOWEVER, this experience has made me realize that for me Marklin has a real disadvantage: the locos walk rather than run. This means in future I will need to be very careful before buying another Marklin loco. I just could not believe that the same loco could run at 50% the speed.

Maybe I should stick to analogue locos and have then digitized by Mike; that may be the way to go for me.

Or just buy 2-rail locos since they do not have this problem.
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 08 February 2016 07:55:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Baggio!
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I then decided to buy the EXACT SAME LOCOMOTIVE, only in a different colour and to my disappointment it ran at half the speed! ThumbDown
Did you open those locos and look at the motors? Do you have the ref. numbers?
Märklin made two different versions - the old version with three powered axles (and possibly different gear ratios over time) and the new version with one powered axles.

The old versions will probably be faster when converted from analogue to digital.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 08 February 2016 10:04:14(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I just had a really troubling experience with the speed of a Marklin loco.

When I started out in digital, a couple of years ago, I bought a construction starter set that had a little diesel loco that runs very nicely. BigGrin

I then decided to buy the EXACT SAME LOCOMOTIVE, only in a different colour and to my disappointment it ran at half the speed! ThumbDown

Nothing made it go faster since the speed was already set at 100%.

Fortunately, Mike took it back and I bought instead four US wagons BigGrin which I pull by my 30000 or my FS424 along with other US freight cars and DB cars I had bought from him: they look great together!!! ThumpUp
(So much for the "segregation" required by some hobbyists ....Wink )

HOWEVER, this experience has made me realize that for me Marklin has a real disadvantage: the locos walk rather than run. This means in future I will need to be very careful before buying another Marklin loco. I just could not believe that the same loco could run at 50% the speed.

Maybe I should stick to analogue locos and have then digitized by Mike; that may be the way to go for me.

Or just buy 2-rail locos since they do not have this problem.


Do you have many 2-rail locos? My experience of recent model locos from different manufacturers is that every new model is made to look better and run more realistically than previous models with older technology. This means running at speeds which are closer to scale, which unfortunately is not what you're looking for.

By all means buy whatever brand of trains you like. Some will be faster than others. Don't expect the latest locos to run at the kind of speeds that old ones used to.

I think everyone is free to run their trains as they see fit, but you have to admit you seem to be in a bit of a minority by asking that your trains run very fast. Most enthusiasts today look at locos to see if they have good 'slow running' qualities. The only exception is possibly with models of high speed trains which sometimes don't reach their scale maximum speed.

When judging Marklin locos I don't think it's fair to say a shunting loco has a problem because it runs more slowly. This is by design, to satisfy most modeller's need to have realistic running speeds. An express loco running too slow is a problem, a shunting engine running too fast is also a problem, but not the other way around.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Shamu  
#16 Posted : 08 February 2016 10:32:33(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
I would have to agree with most here that most loco's seam to run too fast.

To each their own but for me I have no interest in seeing loco's running any faster than they would in real life.

I bought the 49960 Mebwagen-Measurement Car for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to ensure my loco's actually run at prototypical speeds.

Or as Tom suggested a measured straight run and a stopwatch to determine the approximate speed of the engines and then decide if further action is needed.

A rough guide over 1 meter is;

15kph = 20sec
30kph = 10sec
60kph = 5sec
100kph = 3sec

I have rounded down the numbers hence the discrepancy between 60 and 100.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#17 Posted : 08 February 2016 14:30:30(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
I agree that most of my locos all seem to run too fast for my taste. Since I run all steam locos, I like to be able to observe the side rod action. Also on the ones equipped with sound, I can use the chuffing speed to control the loco speed. When the chuffing gets to the point that I can't hear the individual chuffs it's running much too fast.

On the older ones that are equipped with the 6090 decoders where you can set the top speed using the trimpots, I always set the acceleration to the lowest setting and the decelleration to the highest setting.

Chuck
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Offline baggio  
#18 Posted : 09 February 2016 01:30:33(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I'll try to respond to everyone, but pictures first:

My first digital set - construction - 29182.jpgThe construction loco - red - no 36700.jpg

The description of the two locos is identical - the new loco is no 36700 - the set is 29182.

I do not run the locos "very fast" so as to have them derail on a curve. However, I do need them to run, not "walk". Others are free to enjoy watching the locos slowly move around the track; if I did, I would fall asleep. LOL

I can't tell you the scale speed, but I will tray the test Shamu suggested (THANK YOU!) just for curiosity. ThumpUp

Running a layout that does not adhere strictly to convention does not make it a "toy layout", it does make it less serious.

Complaining that a loco should never be made to pull passenger wagons because in real life it's used only for freight seems a bit silly to me. ThumbDown

I consider myself a hobbyist, not a modeller and certainly not a child that uses toy trains. Some toys; when I pair my FS424 with the three bi-level wagons, the cost is certainly not that of a toy. And you should see how nice it is when it runs at a good pace. Love

My usual two cents' worth.



Offline baggio  
#19 Posted : 09 February 2016 03:14:55(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
A rough guide over 1 meter is;

15kph = 20sec
30kph = 10sec
60kph = 5sec
100kph = 3sec


Hi, Shamu:

How "rough" is your guide?

What about greater speeds, any idea?

I'll tell you why later BigGrin

Thanks.
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 09 February 2016 08:11:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Complaining that a loco should never be made to pull passenger wagons because in real life it's used only for freight seems a bit silly to me. ThumbDown
Think positive. Modellers will sometimes point out things that are not realistic, not like the prototype. This can refer to speed, to train composition, to details beside the tracks, to anything.
You can always say you know that and don't care.
Others seeing your pictures or videos and reading the remarks may be grateful if the try to create realistic trains.


Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
The description of the two locos is identical - the new loco is no 36700 - the set is 29182.
I only have one of the new locos with just one powered axle and it is analogue. So I cannot tell if they changed something about the gears or the decoder to reduce the speed.

The locos should have stickers with serial numbers that begin with H followed by two digits indicating the production year.
Maybe others who have more than one of those and digital can comment if they experience different maximum speeds.


Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
What about greater speeds, any idea?
You measure the speed in centimetres per second or metres per second, multiply by 87 and convert it to km/h.

The factor from m/s model speed to km/h prototype speed is 313.2 (3.6 * 87).
Calculation will be easy if you take the time for 100 cm.
It will be easy to make a lookup table with Excel - maybe I can do that tonight.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Shamu  
#21 Posted : 09 February 2016 10:28:10(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
A rough guide over 1 meter is;

15kph = 20sec
30kph = 10sec
60kph = 5sec
100kph = 3sec


Hi, Shamu:

How "rough" is your guide?

What about greater speeds, any idea?

I'll tell you why later BigGrin

Thanks.


Close enough without being a "rivet counter" about it (I removed the hundredths of a second)........ basically double the speed and half the time... so 200kph = 1.5sec.

If you want to be exact follow Tom's formula ThumpUp or perhaps he will be kind enough to whip up a spreadsheet for you (and others).
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 09 February 2016 11:46:36(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I carried out that exercise and was surprised at how slow you need to go to achieve a realistic speed, say 40kph for a goods train. I suspect that even though I like to see my trains running slowly they still travel much faster than scale speed.

Sometimes I get one of my trains running at the lowest speed step and leave it for a while to see how long it takes to get around the layout. Assuming it doesn't stop on a dirty piece of track it can take quite a few minutes to go a distance which is no more than about 5 metres.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Shamu  
#23 Posted : 09 February 2016 12:00:33(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Yes Ray that is the major hurdle running trains at scale speed, good continuity around the whole track is essential along with a lok that wants to play the game.

With the exception of fast express trains I envision the bulk of mine running between 50 and 80kph. I don't intend to be anal about it but as close to prototype as possible allowing for track and engine condition.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline Wal  
#24 Posted : 09 February 2016 13:01:09(UTC)
Wal

Australia   
Joined: 07/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Sydney
Hi Folks,

Out of interest I ran the numbers for my Z gauge. For 1 meter of track 30kph = 26 seconds, 60 kph = 13 seconds, 100kph = almost 8 seconds, and 150kph = just over 5 seconds.

Add to that the width of the track for contact and you can understand why clean track is vital to Z operations. It's even more difficult to achieve prototypical speeds.

Cheers,

Wal
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Offline baggio  
#25 Posted : 09 February 2016 15:19:18(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I carried out that exercise and was surprised at how slow you need to go to achieve a realistic speed, say 40kph for a goods train.I suspect that even though I like to see my trains running slowly they still travel much faster than scale speed.


You said it! ThumpUp

At scale speed you fall asleep BigGrin

Offline baggio  
#26 Posted : 09 February 2016 15:26:45(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Where is the rationale for reducing the speed of the model train 87 times over the speed of the prototype? Just because the scale is 1 to 87?

If so, then small cars on the road should be made to travel slower, say a Smart car, as opposed to a Cadillac....

To each his own, but the manufacturer could easily have a setting "scale speed" for those who care for it and let the others enjoy a faster speed. BUT, does it cost more to have a loco that runs faster than a snail?

(Along the same lines, I do not like the little figurines in scale that you can hardly see; if I can, I use figurines that are a lot bigger, albeit not huge in proportion. Maybe a scale of 1 to 20 - just a guess.)

Offline RayF  
#27 Posted : 09 February 2016 17:06:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post


Where is the rationale for reducing the speed of the model train 87 times over the speed of the prototype? Just because the scale is 1 to 87?

....



I would say yes! BigGrin

Seriously, you can run your trains at whatever speed you like. You are the master in your own little world.

In my world the trains run at realistic speeds, but sometimes I let them run at full speed just for the fun of it, though I keep an eye on the expensive ones! I also think the mechanisms will last longer if I run them at less stressful speeds, but I can't prove that is true.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Thewolf  
#28 Posted : 09 February 2016 17:21:42(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post


Where is the rationale for reducing the speed of the model train 87 times over the speed of the prototype? Just because the scale is 1 to 87?

....



I would say yes! BigGrin

Seriously, you can run your trains at whatever speed you like. You are the master in your own little world.

.


I agree with Ray

I want to be realistic I do not conceive one 2 CV run as one Ferrari F 1.

Thus never my B29 (maximun speed in reality in the 50s: 90 km / hour) will run to 160 km / hour,..... because I would feel as the Gilles Villeneuve of the steam locos

But I respect the feelings of Baggio

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline baggio  
#29 Posted : 09 February 2016 20:12:36(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Maybe I should change my name on the forum to "Gilles" LOL
Offline Thewolf  
#30 Posted : 09 February 2016 22:01:42(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Maybe I should change my name on the forum to "Gilles" LOL


Why not ?ThumpUp ThumpUp Tongue Tongue

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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