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Offline Arey2003  
#1 Posted : 08 May 2015 19:08:43(UTC)
Arey2003

France   
Joined: 03/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Ile-de-France, Champs-sur-Marne
Hi!
It's me again.
I'm going to the United States this summer and I'd like to get some trains to use there.
Can I use U.S. type AC plug and plug the small end into to rail box item 60113 with the mobile station 2 and have the thing work fine?
If not, how do I get it working? (Complicated ideas accepted.)
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 08 May 2015 19:16:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

I'd buy a wallwart (power supply) for 120 volts and use that with 60113. You can buy it from Märklin (toy power supply) or from third parties (universal household power supply).

Users reported that the Märklin 230 volts power supply does work with 120 volts also. But there is no guarantee for that solution. I don't know whether this is safe or brings substantial risks.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Shamu  
#3 Posted : 09 May 2015 04:53:09(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
I can not check the ratings on mine as they are packed away and not easily accessible however "most" SMPS (switch mode power supplies) are designed to operate or provide the rated output with a supply (mains) voltage of between 90v and 260v.

Due to the fact that Marklin sell 2 different types of SMPS', one for the EU and another for the USA I'm inclined to think this is not the case otherwise why double the production/supply/inventory costs.

I assume that they are only rated for the designated mains supply +/- 10%.

I'd go with Tom's suggestion to play it safe.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 09 May 2015 21:36:00(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I got my MS2 in the BLS Start Set (29486). In order to use the controller in North America, I purchased an additional 66365 Adapter with a 120V 60Hz Input and 18VDC 30VA Output.
The item lists at around $55-60 in North America. You may be able to find it cheaper at Schweikhardt or Lokshop if they have it in stock.
I also recall seeing that ETS had a special price on 120V analog transformers a while ago, so you could also opt to go analog while you are in North America. The analog transformers cannot be used to power the MS2.

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 09 May 2015 21:59:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The analog transformers cannot be used to power the MS2.
You can operate the MS2 with 16 V AC - e.g. from an "analogue" transformer.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline 3rail4life  
#6 Posted : 09 May 2015 23:59:44(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
If you have a 66361 switched mode power supply, this is all you need to run your trains with your MS2 setup in North America


Sure, it may not be officially endorsed by Mä, but it works fine, we have been operating our trains and MS2 sets for over three years now here in the US without problems. For responsible adult use, I have seen nothing unsafe or risky with this solution.

The DC voltage output of the 66361 is 18V whether using 120V or 240V, not complicated at all...
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 10 May 2015 00:43:20(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post

Due to the fact that Marklin sell 2 different types of SMPS', one for the EU and another for the USA I'm inclined to think this is not the case otherwise why double the production/supply/inventory costs.


I suspect this has more to do with shipping a power supply with the correct power plug to the correct country than anything else.

For myself I would be happy to use a Marklin 230V switched mode supply (not the older model Iron transformer) on a 110V supply, because as others have stated, such supplies are almost universally designed for 90-250V nominal input voltage these days. However I am in the electronics trade, and have a reasonable confidence in using such an item this way.

As others have suggested, if you don't feel confident doing this, to run a mobile station so you can get your 'fix' periodically look for a wall wart of suitable rating from Radio Shack or similar type of store.
Offline rorosha  
#8 Posted : 10 May 2015 01:14:36(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post

Due to the fact that Marklin sell 2 different types of SMPS', one for the EU and another for the USA I'm inclined to think this is not the case otherwise why double the production/supply/inventory costs.


I suspect this has more to do with shipping a power supply with the correct power plug to the correct country than anything else.

For myself I would be happy to use a Marklin 230V switched mode supply (not the older model Iron transformer) on a 110V supply, because as others have stated, such supplies are almost universally designed for 90-250V nominal input voltage these days. However I am in the electronics trade, and have a reasonable confidence in using such an item this way.

As others have suggested, if you don't feel confident doing this, to run a mobile station so you can get your 'fix' periodically look for a wall wart of suitable rating from Radio Shack or similar type of store.


Actually, there can be internal design differences between wide range and narrow range Switch Mode Power Supplies. By reducing the input range, the overall efficiency of the power supply can be increased (but only by a percent or two). It can also decrease the cost (slightly) and substantially increase the reliability. So, I would say, do not assume anything. It may or may not work initially. It may increase the risk of failure (especially catastrophic failure) in the future. Use a power supply with the incorrect input voltage at your own risk.

Much of it does have to do with the AC connector, but also with the output rating of the power supply.

You may have noticed that in many cases the two different but similar power supplies are rated differently. For example, the 60061 (European version) has a rated output of 19 volts at 60 watts, but the 60065 (US version) has a rated output of 19 volts at only 50 watts. This is not because someone is measuring something different, it is because in order to get certified in the US, they must meet different standards. The output of the US version IS LOWER.

I would like to see Märklin go to something that is not a wall wort. I absolutely hate those things, since in many cases they prevent plugging in additional items. I would prefer that they went to something that resembled a Laptop type power supply, with a detachable AC power cord. Sell one standard power supply, and then sell the country specific AC power cord separately. Many complained do that type of thing already.
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 11 May 2015 05:23:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Using a 66361 Europe adapter with US current will yield an output of 9V DC, which will not be enough to operate a MS2. AFAIK you cannot simply connect the 16VAC output of an analog transformer to power the MS2. I believe that the MS1 could still do this. If it can be done with a MS2, please provide the instructions and connection details.

I have no issue with wall worts (never heard that term before). Does that refer to the brick voltage adapter or to the plug adapter?
My issue is with the light weight of the 60113 and the fact that it is permanently attached to the wires rather than having terminals.
1) The wires cannot be swapped out for longer or shorter ones.
2) The unit pulls on the wires and on the tracks if it gets moved.
3) They could have put the voltage converter in the same unit and allowed either a straight AC input (120 or 230) and a separate 16VAC input for use with old transformers.

I guess many people would like to see a universal adapter that would require only the appropriate plug be mounted to connect it to the mains.
My laptop has that, my razor has that, why can't my MS2?

Regards

Mike C
Offline rorosha  
#10 Posted : 11 May 2015 07:06:24(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Using a 66361 Europe adapter with US current will yield an output of 9V DC, which will not be enough to operate a MS2. AFAIK you cannot simply connect the 16VAC output of an analog transformer to power the MS2. I believe that the MS1 could still do this. If it can be done with a MS2, please provide the instructions and connection details.

I have no issue with wall worts (never heard that term before). Does that refer to the brick voltage adapter or to the plug adapter?
My issue is with the light weight of the 60113 and the fact that it is permanently attached to the wires rather than having terminals.
1) The wires cannot be swapped out for longer or shorter ones.
2) The unit pulls on the wires and on the tracks if it gets moved.
3) They could have put the voltage converter in the same unit and allowed either a straight AC input (120 or 230) and a separate 16VAC input for use with old transformers.

I guess many people would like to see a universal adapter that would require only the appropriate plug be mounted to connect it to the mains.
My laptop has that, my razor has that, why can't my MS2?

Regards

Mike C


According to a user supplied schematic on Stummis Forum (http://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90373&hilit=Gleisbox+1.04.pdf), and images of the 60113 printed circuit board found elsewhere on the internet, the 60113 track interface box has a bridge rectifier circuit on the power input. A bridge rectifier circuit will convert AC into DC. A bridge rectifier circuit is also easy protection against DC polarity reversals. Either part of the connector can be positive (inside or outside), and the unit will work properly.

To connect 16 volts AC to the 60113, all that is required is a suitable connector and some wire, or a cable similar to the one which came with the Märklin 60055 transformer. That cable is available separately, Märklin part number 610718. The description on my usual supplier's website describes it as "Electrical wire with plug. Use this to power your Central Station, or adapter track 24088, or the Mobile Station box 60113 with a regular Marklin transformer." And they list the cable at less than $6 US. Since you are connecting AC to the 60113, there is no polarity to AC, so the wires can be connected either way.


The term 'Wall Wort' is an ancient one. I remember it being used back in the seventies. It refers to the power supply / transformer, not the plug adapter. It comes from the look of the power supply / transformer when plugged into a wall outlet and looked at from the side. It looks like an ugly bump, or a wort on the surface of the wall.


As far as the wires being permanently attached to the 60113, that can be solved easily enough. If you, or you know someone who is handy with a soldering iron, the 60113 opens easily enough, and the wires can be changed in a matter of minutes.

If you want some type of connector on the wires, simply cut the wires short (but not too short - two to three inches should be a good length) and install a set of connectors. Something like the Märklin 71411, 71415, 71421, and 71425 combination would be very suitable and appropriate. Other connectors could be used as well, the choice would be up to you.

Admittedly, Märklin could have installed some type of connector on the track wires, but what type of connector, something like on the old transformers (plug in), or the old 6021 and newer transformers (spring clip), or maybe something like is used one the CS2 (specialty connector). It would have added to the cost. And then there would be people complaining about Märklin installing a connector where it wasn't necessary.

As far as the 60113 being too light, that can easily be solved as well. Get a block of metal (steel, aluminum, etc.), or even a block of wood, and attach it to the bottom of the 60113 with a piece of double sided tape. That will easily and quickly add weight to the 60113.

Another option, especially for a Carpet Bahn, would be to install the 60113 into some kind of rail side structure. Just cut a couple holes in the structure to make sure you can still access the connectors. You could even add weight inside the structure if you desired. And to make it the ultimate installation, trim the track wires short and install the connectors mentioned above. Leave a short pigtail, to make connections easier. Then take a piece of track, attach the other end of the track wires to it, and hot glue them in place, making a permanently wired feeder track.

A third option, would be to create an abomination similar to the old 24088. Attach the wires to a piece of track, cut a small notch in the side of the track bed for the wires to pass through. Get a thin sheet of plastic (Plastruct or something similar), trim to a suitable size, attach the 60113 to one side of the plastic, tuck the wires under the track, and then attach the plastic sheet to the bottom of the track. With a hot glue gun, this should be easy enough to construct. This would probably be especially suitable for a Carpet Bahn where you have young children around who may kick things around.

You could even create a combination of these methods. Get a larger sheet of plastic and something like a station kit, Assemble the station kit with the 60113 inside. Attach it to the plastic sheet, and then connect the wires to a suitable length of track and attach that to the plastic as well. You would then create the ultimate Carpet Bahn station.

In either of these last two ideas, use a thin plastic so that you do not raise the track too much, and cause possible alignment problems.


As far as building the voltage converter / power supply into the 60113 itself, it would create too bulky of a unit, and as long as they have to contend with different international standards, would require them to construct multiple devices, which would definitely increase the cost substantially. It's probably better that they leave it the way it is.


I hope that at least part of this advice is useful to you.

Rodger
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 11 May 2015 07:35:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Using a 66361 Europe adapter with US current will yield an output of 9V DC, which will not be enough to operate a MS2.
Such a statement can come only from a person who does not have the faintest idea how a switched-mode power supply works.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...itched-mode_power_supply

The output voltage will be 18 volts, but the input current will be much higher than with 230 volts and the switching frequency will be much higher than with 230 volts - and there is no guarantee that the device will operate reliably and without radio interference under such circumstances.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline rorosha  
#12 Posted : 11 May 2015 07:53:32(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Using a 66361 Europe adapter with US current will yield an output of 9V DC, which will not be enough to operate a MS2.
Such a statement can come only from a person who does not have the faintest idea how a switched-mode power supply works.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...itched-mode_power_supply

The output voltage will be 18 volts, but the input current will be much higher than with 230 volts and the switching frequency will be much higher than with 230 volts - and there is no guarantee that the device will operate reliably and without radio interference under such circumstances.


In reality I have personally seen this phenomenon. This is especially true in older and better designed switch mode power supplies. In order to limit high inrush currents (inrush currents can exceed a hundred times operating current depending on power supply design and load), a current limiting circuit can be used. If the power supply is designed for a high range input voltage, and a low range voltage is applied, the current limiting circuit will do it's job and keep the input current low. With a restricted input current, the power supply is not capable of reaching it's full output voltage. Not only will the output voltage be low, but it will fluctuate, and sometimes pretty drastically.

If the current limiting circuit is poorly designed (or uses poorly specified components), there is an increased chance of catastrophic failure. Smoke and fire are a prime indicators of failure.

This was a common problem with old clone PC power supplies with a voltage selector switch on the back. People wouldn't notice the switch set to 230 volts and connect their computer to a 120 volt outlet, and soon after, the magic smoke would be released. It would not only take out the power supply, but many times the processor chip and usually memory as well, as both were nearly as sensitive to under voltage as over voltage. This was especially common during the self-build PC craze, with people buying super cheap China components to build their own computers.
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Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 01 February 2016 21:37:18(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Question: IF the switch mode power supply were designed and constructed to operate from a 100-240vAC mains system, that is, it is designed so the current limiting circuit is set for the current draw on a 110v input, lets say, then running it at 220v would draw less current than its designed to, and the circuit should run reliably in both 110v and 220v operation. An output side fuse that limits the DC draw current to the rated amount can still protect against a short or over-draw from the output. So in this case, there should be no problem, correct?

The risk exists if you have a supply designed to explicitly run at a 220v level, where the much higher input current pull of running on 110v would exceed the design specifications, correct?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Mark5  
#14 Posted : 04 February 2016 05:45:17(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
OK.... Now, this thread if I may say, is really forcing me to see what I need too.
I think my question may help the generator of this thread.

I have 9 x 66361 wall-warts to drive 18x m83 decoder boxes linked in pairs. (since the actual recommended adapter for m83s never was made, another thread)
And from what I gather from this thread it is not recommended to have simple shaver plug adapter since I would get an uneven power supply,
but rather I will need to use a step up transformer to drive the 9 x 66361 wall warts.
(Of which, btw, I can only plug 4 into a power a long power bar with 7 outlets at any time.)

I currently only have one "step up/step down" converter with only the following information.
Written as follows:
"220V <---> 110VAC 50/60hz
max 200 Watts (VA) "

I use this step-up converter to drive one 60VA trafo for my 6021 CU.
This leads me to my question:
1) Is the requirement for the max 200 watts (VA) direct arithmetic?
That is, all I would have to do it is add:
60VA + (4x)36VA of the 66361 wall warts = just over 204watts/VA (assuming the extra 4 watts is not real overload)

...meaning all I need is another equally sized power supply to drive the other 5x66361 in this case.
(And Euro power bar)??

- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 04 February 2016 08:04:31(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
So the idea about plugging in a marked for 240v power supply into a 120v mains source may only apply (if the power supply is designed the correct way to allow this) for a switching power supply.
If you have a traditional non-switching power supply or a transformer power supply, that doesn't apply and you absolutely must use the power supply matched to your local mains voltage.

So the 110/220 transformer you have is indeed a doubling or halving transformer for AC power, depending on which side onto which you hook up the mains power.
It is rated at 200 VA (an AC designation), which is due to the way the transformer is built, the current carrying capacity of the internal wiring of the transformer and the heat dissipation capabilities of its case and construction.
There should be a fuse installed in the transformer that will limit the current that can be pulled out of it to that safe level. If you reverse the transformer, you also need to move the fuse to the output side, of course.

So if yours has a rated capacity of 200VA, assuming it is just a basic AC transformer so the only circuitry of concern are the transformer windings, then that equates to a current maximum of about 0.9 A on the 220v side, and 1.8A on the 110v side.
So the total draw should not exceed that limit, which is the summary of the VA draw of all of the consumers, as you stated.

So if the 66361 supplies are 36VA at 230v. The US power system outputs 120v nominally, so if you run that through the transformer you would get 240vAC out, but in theory, the draw from the mains power will be driven by the demand drawn on the equipment pulling from that power supply, so it should still cap out around 36VA.

So I would say you can safely run 5 of those 66361 power supplies off of one of your transformers.

However, as this 66361 is a switching power supply, IF it was engineered to handle carrying the current of a 110vAC input side in terms of the electronics and the only difference between the 230v and the 120v version is the case, the physical plug geometry, and the approval sticker on the case, then the power supply will likely run just fine on 120vAC without the need for any transformers. If the power brick gets very hot, then you likely need a transformer. It will get warm, as power circuits generate heat, but if it gets very hot, then we will need a proper 240vAC input.
UserPostedImage


Now, depending on where you live and where your home's power panel is located with respect to where your railway room is, another option is to have a 240v circuit run from your home's circuit breaker to a dedicated 240vAC outlet in the room where you need it. This is typically possible in the US as there are two phases of 120AC delivered to the house power panel in addition to the neutral. That is often used to run 240v equipment such as clothes driers, ovens and other high-draw appliances. You'd have an electrician install a new breaker in the breaker box and run the line. You would get a special 230v outlet plate, which isn't going to be the German schuko socket. You can then go the home center and buy the right plug for that outlet, get a German power strip (get one that has spacing to allow wall warts to not interfere with other outlets, and replace the plug end on that strip with the US spec 240vAC plug, plug it into the wall and not deal with in-home transformers. But, depnding on your situation that can be rather expensive or not such a problem. In my case, the power panel in the garage would only need to have a line run up the wall into the bonus room above the garage which is where I'd set up my train; so it would be an easy install. Of course if I wanted to set up a carpet/floor quick setup, I'd still need a portable transformer for those cases, but have less power supplies to feed as well. But then in my case, with the switching power supplies, I might not need to up the voltage at all, though.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 04 February 2016 08:30:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
since the actual recommended adapter for m83s never was made, another thread
60822 is in stock at Märklin (the booster 60172 never was made ...).

If you trust those who say a 66361 can be used with 120 V then don't bother buying a step-up transformer from 120 V to 230 V.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark5  
#17 Posted : 05 February 2016 00:53:18(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanks Tom,

I am a bit worried about the comment subjecting the m83s to something like this
"Smoke and fire are a prime indicators of failure."
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post
If the current limiting circuit is poorly designed (or uses poorly specified components), there is an increased chance of catastrophic failure. Smoke and fire are a prime indicators of failure.


Is there no American or Canadian forum member with a quality oscillator and electrical knowledge who can check the output of a 66361 to see if it is a stable current flow?

If it cannot be determined to be reliable than at our present home, I will just get a step-up. However, there are other solutions that are attractive. I have neighbour who is former Marklinist and he has converted the power current for his washer/dryer into a (he says) stable 220V outlet. As we say here in Quebec he is "French from France." (Not a Quebecer) There are code and inspection issues with this though, and I am only raising the question academically. (Personally if I went this far, I'd hire an electrician which may be worth the 150 bucks in the long run)

I found online some suggestions about doing this:
"...From the powerlines your house is provided two wires, each carrying 120v and 180 degrees out of phase to each other. Add them together and you get 240v. You are also provided a neutral line that is grounded every so often and grounded at your house.

A standard 120v outlet is supplied by one of the two rails from the power company. A 240v outlet is supplied by both of the two rails. That's all there is to it unless your dryer plug is a four prong. In that case you will have 2-120v lines, one ground, and one neutral. It's a bit redundant having ground and neutral since they are wired together in your breaker box. Nevertheless, it's straightforward. I would recommend highly a well-grounded metal conduit through which the wires should run...."

Consult some experts before trying this. I am just quoting others.

- Mark



Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Using a 66361 Europe adapter with US current will yield an output of 9V DC, which will not be enough to operate a MS2.
Such a statement can come only from a person who does not have the faintest idea how a switched-mode power supply works.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...itched-mode_power_supply

The output voltage will be 18 volts, but the input current will be much higher than with 230 volts and the switching frequency will be much higher than with 230 volts - and there is no guarantee that the device will operate reliably and without radio interference under such circumstances.


In reality I have personally seen this phenomenon. This is especially true in older and better designed switch mode power supplies. In order to limit high inrush currents (inrush currents can exceed a hundred times operating current depending on power supply design and load), a current limiting circuit can be used. If the power supply is designed for a high range input voltage, and a low range voltage is applied, the current limiting circuit will do it's job and keep the input current low. With a restricted input current, the power supply is not capable of reaching it's full output voltage. Not only will the output voltage be low, but it will fluctuate, and sometimes pretty drastically.

If the current limiting circuit is poorly designed (or uses poorly specified components), there is an increased chance of catastrophic failure. Smoke and fire are a prime indicators of failure.

This was a common problem with old clone PC power supplies with a voltage selector switch on the back. People wouldn't notice the switch set to 230 volts and connect their computer to a 120 volt outlet, and soon after, the magic smoke would be released. It would not only take out the power supply, but many times the processor chip and usually memory as well, as both were nearly as sensitive to under voltage as over voltage. This was especially common during the self-build PC craze, with people buying super cheap China components to build their own computers.
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Minok  
#18 Posted : 05 February 2016 01:23:33(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Mark5,

I can test this once I get my setup here (29000 ordered, no idea when this year it will show up as its a new for 2016 product).

I've got an oscilloscope and once I get it set up I can put some locos on the circle and get them running and monitor the output (as its DC a voltmeter is really the only thing thats required), and the power supplies temperature (via laser .. will have to research how accurate t is on plastic) to see temperature issues.

I've got a 110/220 step up transformer as well, and will initially run the power supply off of that, to get a reference baseline for its use on 240v operation (or whatever the AC output ends up being... need to see what it does with my actual input voltage).

So we would have more than anecdotal evidence. It would be a leap of faith then on my part to trust what others have said about the supply (as I'm risking smoking mine if what others have said is false about the internals between the 230v and 120v versions just being the external packaging and labels). Maybe I should just order a spare 66361 now.. but then I can just as well order a properly designed 120vAC to 18vDC / 36w capability 3rd party power supply with the correct type connector on the end.

Here is 100-240vAC range power brick that does exactly what we are suspecting the Märklin models do.

https://www.amazon.com/T...=power+supply+18v+DC+36w

or from here much cheaper

http://www.digikey.com/p...mp;fid=0&pageSize=25
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline baggio  
#19 Posted : 05 February 2016 02:08:33(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
What is the fuss all about? Confused

When I came to Canada from Italy in 1968 we brought our Marklin train gear with us AND a small but HEAVY transformer.

The trains worked just fine and the transformer was not expensive.

Today, you need only spend maybe $20.00 and start playing.Flapper
Offline grnwtrs  
#20 Posted : 05 February 2016 02:31:06(UTC)
grnwtrs

United States   
Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: El Sobrante, California
Somehow I thought this thread was about being able to run a Marklin engine/accessory with a small txfr in the US colony.

I have been using a small transformer (MA#66185-120v AC), with a plug that would fit in a Kalifornia(USA) outlet box) I purchased this on Ebay.com several years ago. I thought I also got one with a
set with the NYC Alco PA-1 (Ma 29576?) I think I used this with the famous UGLY BOX, since then, I have used this TXFR with the "Digital connector Box" . 1 ga (# 60112) with the MS2.

By the way the #66185 was cheap, not more than US $30.00 incl freight.

It works for me! And I haven't burned down the house, of caused a bit of smoke here or there.

Oh, this set-up evens works with the marklin test stand for HO, its not elegant, but it works.

FWIW,
Regards,
gene
Offline Minok  
#21 Posted : 05 February 2016 02:58:09(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The thread is indicating there are several ways to skin this cat, depending on what gear you already have, what you want to do in the immediate, and where you want to go longer term. Not every solution works well for every use case. What the latest posts have been about is the possibility, with the advancements of the past decades embodied in modern switching power supplies (note these are MORE than just transformers), that one can just modify a German power strip and plug in the host of 230v based original power supplies as it. That is what we want to validate. Sure, adding a heavy step-up transformer also solves the problem, and is actually needed if you have older gear.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline baggio  
#22 Posted : 05 February 2016 06:00:34(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto


"It works for me! And I haven't burned down the house, of caused a bit of smoke here or there."


That's a relief! LOL
Offline ealab  
#23 Posted : 05 February 2016 08:16:02(UTC)
ealab


Joined: 09/02/2014(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: SOUTHERN FINLAND, PAIMIO
Hello!
Generally: Switch mode power supply output power generally constant. Thus, 230V input voltage is 120V, input current is "n". If the input voltage is 120V, so the input current would be "2n". Does this mean the plug/power thing imported from Europe, or equivalent is devices? Yes US market sold actual devices?

Best regards from Finland:

ealab
Offline rshimada  
#24 Posted : 07 February 2016 18:31:35(UTC)
rshimada

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota, Minneapolis
Originally Posted by: Arey2003 Go to Quoted Post
Can I use U.S. type AC plug and plug the small end into to rail box item 60113 with the mobile station 2 and have the thing work fine?


As mentioned, it is likely you'll just need a Euro to North American plug adapter for the 66361. When I did this, the MS2 reported 18 volts.

The summary of my findings is at https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...2-starter-set#post501585 which also mentions the alternate power for MS2 thread.



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Offline Minok  
#25 Posted : 07 February 2016 19:28:55(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: ealab Go to Quoted Post
Hello!
Does this mean the plug/power thing imported from Europe, or equivalent is devices? Yes US market sold actual devices?


Can restate the question?

Toys of tin and wood rule!
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