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Offline river6109  
#501 Posted : 14 December 2015 12:46:19(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Well I've done it again, this time I've secured another HAG SBB Re 4/4 Express loco with the road number 11109 for a considerable amount 84.00 Swiss Franks, one could say I've saved myself 5432 Swiss Franks, now this is what I call a bargain. I admit it its not a rare loco but it does the same job as the one advertised on ebay now going over 5.100 Swiss franks.

hag-re4-4-ii-swissexpress.jpg

Edited by user 20 December 2015 06:49:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline PeFu  
#502 Posted : 14 December 2015 22:58:50(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,180
Received my first "new" loco since 2006 today: A BLS Ae 8/8 (HAG 240) with ESU LokPilot 4.0 decoder, purchased from eBay.de, no box. A beauty that will run a lot, I hope RollEyes

Fil 2015-12-14 22 56 46.jpg
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline Unholz  
#503 Posted : 16 December 2015 09:08:24(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
We were recently speaking of crazy HAG auctions. Well, watch this one here - it might break all previous records: ThumpUp
http://www.ebay.ch/itm/121841317801

This is one of the only six and truly legendary "crackle lacquer" locos produced by HAG in the 1980's. There was also a life-size bicycle owned by former HAG production manager Mr. Harry Moos plus a number of transformers painted like this.
Offline river6109  
#504 Posted : 20 December 2015 06:43:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Received my first "new" loco since 2006 today: A BLS Ae 8/8 (HAG 240) with ESU LokPilot 4.0 decoder, purchased from eBay.de, no box. A beauty that will run a lot, I hope RollEyes

Fil 2015-12-14 22 56 46.jpg


the beauty with HAG loco is everything is metal and it does help the pulling power a great deal.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#505 Posted : 20 December 2015 06:54:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
We were recently speaking of crazy HAG auctions. Well, watch this one here - it might break all previous records: ThumpUp
http://www.ebay.ch/itm/121841317801

This is one of the only six and truly legendary "crackle lacquer" locos produced by HAG in the 1980's. There was also a life-size bicycle owned by former HAG production manager Mr. Harry Moos plus a number of transformers painted like this.


Stefan,

can you remember how much this loco was originally sold for ?

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Unholz  
#506 Posted : 20 December 2015 10:43:28(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
John, these six models were an "internal production" instigated by Mr. Harry Moos himself and never officially sold. He is also the current Ebay seller.

They belong to the famous "series" which were named "Feierabendmodelle" (this can perhaps be translated as "after-work models" or "models made after closing time"). They were experimental models produced by a small group within the HAG staff (mainly in the painting and printing department) for their individual pleasure, mostly based on body shells with small flaws or then in the form of modified pre-production samples. Officially, these items were never intended to be sold, but it was more or less inevitable that some of them eventually found their destination in the homes of privileged collectors. Wink

This black BLS Ae 8/8 is one of the last Feierabendmodelle that were made at the Mörschwil facility:

black_bull.jpg
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Offline Robert Davies  
#507 Posted : 20 December 2015 11:09:24(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Robert;

This was from the original factory and there should not be any quality issues at all. This was a complete retooling of the original Hag Ae 4/7. If you see one with the old box, it is the original first generation. The one you are pointing to is the retooled new generation.

I have two of these; numbers 10905 and 11007.

The price is not outstanding but not the highest. In the store, the digital listed for 780 CHF. Roundhouse still shows the price and actually has one available. I lucked out on mine for price but I recall they were both on ebay.com which nobody seems to look at for Hag.

There is another one on ebay that looks like it started at 1

Ae 4/7

There are a couple on Ricardo.ch but at higher prices


Thanks to jcrtrains for drawing my attention to this one on eBay, which I had failed to notice. It looks to be in as good condition as the other, although perhaps used rather more, and I was able to secure it yesterday for Euro 414 which I think is a more reasonable price that Euro 494. I eagerly wait for its delivery.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Online H0  
#508 Posted : 20 December 2015 16:52:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
A first glance at the list of exhibitors at the Nuremberg Trade Fair 2016 shows the absence of a certain company.
A PDF available from HAG confirms this. They write they will focus on events in Switzerland where they are closer to their customers.

Many dealers come to Nuremberg - but with the exchange rate around 1:1 German dealers are very unlikely to order huge quantities of Swiss-made locos.
Many small companies stay away from Nuremberg as the exhibition seems to be rather expensive. And it also seems that more and more orders are placed using the Internet, so more and more MRR dealers also stay away from Nuremberg.

Long story short: Nuremberg is important for companies that want to grow in the German market, but the exchange rate is a big problem and most likely their absence makes sense.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline taliesin  
#509 Posted : 20 December 2015 17:30:23(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
It should be remembered that what appears at Nuremberg gets reported around the world. I would have thought that a company that has been dogged by quality control problems in recent years would have been keen to show the world that they had got over those problems, assuming of course that they have..... Regards to all, Rob
Offline mike c  
#510 Posted : 21 December 2015 03:45:18(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
With the rise of the US dollar against the Euro and the Swiss Franc, it is probably a good time for US modellers to take a look at Hag or buy other Swiss exclusive models.
For Canadians, who have seen the Swiss Franc go from near par to almost $1.40, Swiss prices have become way too high. I was looking at the limited red Ae 6/6 from Maerklin but at over CHF 400 that would have been just under CAD$600 for one loco which was too much for me. A Hag model at around CHF 700 would be over CAD$1000 and I can't budget that at the present time.

I am still very tempted to try to find a Hag Re 460 in red without the 2000 on the front. Maybe one day.

Regards

Mike C
Offline taliesin  
#511 Posted : 22 December 2015 20:54:25(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Just spotted on Ebay, presumingly German Ebay a Hag GTW 2/6 Thurbo no 34001-32 for 595 euro's which seems very cheap to me, the ebay item number is 131681050339 and the sellers id is modellbahn4fans. over 7000 sales with 100% feedback, any takers? cheers Rob
Offline chrisisrang  
#512 Posted : 26 December 2015 15:23:28(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
Here's what Santa brought me this Christmas....An another HAG Re460 (My Switzerland) that I had been looking out for some time. The best part is the HAG model comes factory fitted with the new light system and full sound features. Thank you Thrilling Toyz for your superb customer service! The parcel arrived well in time for Christmas earlier in the week.

HAG 28 189_2.jpeg.jpg
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Offline Unholz  
#513 Posted : 22 January 2016 09:56:07(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
A limited series of Ee 922 shunters with new road numbers and certain modifications (buffers, roof color, preparations for installing automatic couplers) can be expected this year:
http://www.suter-meggen....HO%20Netto/HAG/index.htm

I assume that other Swiss dealers such as EYRO at Interlaken will also make these models available.

This will probably be the last series of Ee 922 for some time, because Tekwiss/HAG Classic is preparing something new for us... ThumpUp
Offline river6109  
#514 Posted : 22 January 2016 11:01:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
A limited series of Ee 922 shunters with new road numbers and certain modifications (buffers, roof color, preparations for installing automatic couplers) can be expected this year:
http://www.suter-meggen....HO%20Netto/HAG/index.htm

I assume that other Swiss dealers such as EYRO at Interlaken will also make these models available.

This will probably be the last series of Ee 922 for some time, because Tekwiss/HAG Classic is preparing something new for us... ThumpUp


under HO details: Zimo decoder.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline taliesin  
#515 Posted : 03 February 2016 22:01:28(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Stefan!
IMG_0749.JPG

Still looking for this?
Offline Unholz  
#516 Posted : 03 February 2016 22:28:21(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
Stefan!
Still looking for this?


No, but what a strange coincidence: I finally was able to get it in an Ebay auction less than three weeks ago, after previously having searched for it for years!

Great find! ThumpUp

Offline taliesin  
#517 Posted : 03 February 2016 22:32:34(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
I just bought a huge pile off ebay here in the UK Stefan, filled a few gaps, I basically have what I need to paint a pretty good picture of what was available and when but I would love to get a really late catalog in English if they actually exist, cheers Rob
Offline Unholz  
#518 Posted : 04 February 2016 05:46:26(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Rob, the last complete HAG catalog in English and Italian was published in 2002. It shows an Re 450 commuter loco on the title page.
Offline taliesin  
#519 Posted : 04 February 2016 18:13:08(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Rob, the last complete HAG catalog in English and Italian was published in 2002. It shows an Re 450 commuter loco on the title page.


Thanks Stefan, I have this one in German/French but it would be great to get it in English, the newest full catalog I have is 2008 which is a real cracker, shame it didn't get a translation, regards Rob
Offline chrisisrang  
#520 Posted : 12 February 2016 05:03:42(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
Hi! I am keen to get the Re 450 Nachtzug Maur trainset. I am wondering if any of the forum members can comment on the build quality, especially the paint work. I believe HAG manufactured 130 units in the April 2008 time frame and then manufactured another 50 units in 2011. Was there any difference between the two production lots? The dealer in Switzerland is offering the set for CHF1,450 which seems a little steep.

Any thoughts whether this is one of those must have collectible models?

Thanks a bunch for your views in advance.

Cheers,

Chris

31-010.jpg
Offline taliesin  
#521 Posted : 12 February 2016 08:57:46(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
I do not know what the quality is like but they were made at the former factory so should be good. One of the old Hag Dealers listed one here in the UK until recently for a similar price, can't be many left on the shelves now. Is it a must have? How much do you want it? Never buy anything you don't actually like, cheers Rob
Offline chrisisrang  
#522 Posted : 12 February 2016 09:40:08(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
Well, let's see...I am still exploring whether I want to bite the bullet and get this fairly expensive model. I haven't seen an AC Digital model listed anywhere. I have come across a few DC analogue models which is an another expense to convert to AC Digital.

The model does look nice but I haven't come across a really nice detailed photograph of the model on the Internet which is why the question....The recent models coming out of HAG are equally good in terms of paint quality, if I am not mistaken (given the reviews I have seen on the HAG Forum - forum.hag-info.ch

Let's see..

Cheers,

Chris
Offline taliesin  
#523 Posted : 12 February 2016 11:22:12(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
The earliest reference I have to this particular model is in the 2009 Info Leaflet, 31 010 S-Bahn ZKB Nachtzug, Maur and 31 011 S-Bahn ZKB Nachtzug, Seuzach. Not surprisingly there is no reference to the amount produced or availability regarding AC, DC Digital and sound etc etc, I would suspect 12v DC would at that time been produced in the largest numbers hence the reason that there are still a few around still on Dealer's shelves, 3 rail with Digital and Sound was probably a very small part of what appears to be a small production run. My comment about the finish was not a criticism of the current company, more a compliment to the old company, cheers Rob
Offline mike c  
#524 Posted : 12 February 2016 22:59:46(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
A lot of dealers radically reduced their inventory of Hag models, either as a result of the financial problems that the company was experiencing or because they no longer ordered stock from any of the companies that "operated" the brand since the sale/restructuring of the company.

I found this post on the Hag forum: http://www.forum.hag-inf...Thread&threadID=5698

You can also try the shops on this list, where you might find the greatest chance of still finding one: http://homepage.hispeed.ch/unholz/page3/shops.html

Regards

Mike C
Offline taliesin  
#525 Posted : 22 February 2016 15:14:12(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Just spotted on ebay.de, if your feeling particularly wealthy today BigGrin

$_57-6.JPG

a cool 3999.00 euro's to you, cheers Rob
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Offline Unholz  
#526 Posted : 23 February 2016 10:01:47(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Above, Rob shows a piece from HAG's "golden era". And here is the current reality - hand painted "artwork": OhMyGod

Hand painted indeed
And more of the same
Offline taliesin  
#527 Posted : 23 February 2016 10:33:52(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
That's really disappointing Stefan, I thought they had put such things behind them. Earlier this year I bought a Lion Re420 and I was really impressed by it, the finish, the performance, all was excellent. As I have said before there is no longer an active Hag Dealer here in the UK and it is an act of faith sending a considerable sum of money abroad if you cannot be sure that what you get in return is of an acceptable quality. Hopefully this is just a blip, I understand that things can go wrong but stuff like this should never leave the factory, it does make you wonder about the quality control, or lack of it.
I suppose for myself the secondhand market will provide more than I can ever reasonably expect to obtain but it is nice to unwrap a new engine from time to time, best regards, Rob
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Offline river6109  
#528 Posted : 24 February 2016 17:19:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
arrived today and here is my 3rd SBB Express Re 4/4 working number: 11109, now I have 2 x 11103 and 1 x 11109, will change 1 x 11103 to 11108.

John


SBB Re 4_4 111090002.JPG


SBB Re 4_4 111090000.JPG


SBB Re 4_4 111090001.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mario54i  
#529 Posted : 13 April 2016 10:39:01(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Torino,
Hello

Have you ever seen a rotor in these conditions ? It's an HAG Typ88 motor from a Re456.

damaged HAG Typ88 rotor

What happened ? This engine was converted from DC to AC digital by a professional, he replaced all he could change, including the magnet (!!!). Tha bill was quite high but the result was poor, the loco was swinging on rails, he advised me to run it slow on turnouts. More than ten years later I decided to upgrade that loco with a new decoder and LED lights, and at first to get rid of the swinging. I removed the motor from chassis, connected to a power supply, forgot it was set to 12 V and I heard a "crack". Absorbed current went immediately to zero and that was the reason.
Yesterday I found a new rotor and I replaced the broken one. This time I was careful, power supply was set initially to zero and voltage increased slowly. The engine started at 2 V drawing 120 mA, running was regular just with a strange gear noise, some oil helped. I increased voltage slowly without problems up to 8 V, then the current dropped again to zero. Another rotor gone.
What has happened ? I converted other HAG AC motors to DC for digital and never had problems.
What's your advice ? Sending to factory ? I don't feel confident buying another rotor and trying again, it's 32 CHF each.

Thanks for your help

Regards

Mario



Offline mike c  
#530 Posted : 13 April 2016 20:42:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: mario54i Go to Quoted Post
Hello

Have you ever seen a rotor in these conditions ? It's an HAG Typ88 motor from a Re456.

damaged HAG Typ88 rotor

What happened ? This engine was converted from DC to AC digital by a professional, he replaced all he could change, including the magnet (!!!). Tha bill was quite high but the result was poor, the loco was swinging on rails, he advised me to run it slow on turnouts. More than ten years later I decided to upgrade that loco with a new decoder and LED lights, and at first to get rid of the swinging. I removed the motor from chassis, connected to a power supply, forgot it was set to 12 V and I heard a "crack". Absorbed current went immediately to zero and that was the reason.
Yesterday I found a new rotor and I replaced the broken one. This time I was careful, power supply was set initially to zero and voltage increased slowly. The engine started at 2 V drawing 120 mA, running was regular just with a strange gear noise, some oil helped. I increased voltage slowly without problems up to 8 V, then the current dropped again to zero. Another rotor gone.
What has happened ? I converted other HAG AC motors to DC for digital and never had problems.
What's your advice ? Sending to factory ? I don't feel confident buying another rotor and trying again, it's 32 CHF each.

Thanks for your help

Regards

Mario


Mario,

a few quick questions…

1) What kind of decoder did you have installed?
2) Did the conversion include installation of AC wheelsets and wiring modification of slider/wheel contacts?
3) The design of the older Hag models has one of the poles conducted via the chassis. If the conversion is not properly wired and the decoder is not connected directly to the axle and centre rail contacts and the motor wired only directly to the decoder, this can cause a short between the motor and decoder. Normally, I would expect damage to the decoder, but if the rotor was the weak point, I could see that burning out too.
Before you buy another rotor, I would recommend that you have the locomotive tested to ensure that everything is ok.

I remember that D.O.C. models was at one point the distributor for HAG in Italy. I do not know if that is still the case.
I know that Hag has dealers in Ticino and in Valais (Sion), both near the Italian border.
You can also send to Hag in Switzerland. They can verify and repair as needed and maybe add new lighting circuit that would give you red or white taillights and other functions. I do not know if the new electronics fit in the Re 456.

If you need, I can send you a photo of the inside of one of my AC Re 456s so you can see how it is wired (Factory OEM ESU)

You can also contact Jacques Vuyes via the forum and see if he can assist and maybe Stefan Unholz can chime in too.

From the Hag website (Conversion):
"Der Motor muss bei alten AC Modellen mit einem Permanentmagneten ausgerüstet werden. Neuere AC Modelle mit Decoder haben diese Magnete bereits eingebaut.
Um Motoren mit Feldmagneten umzubauen muss auch die rot gekennzeichnete Schraube, welche sich unter der rechten Blechkappe befindet, herausgedreht und die darunter liegende Unterlagscheibe entfernt werden. Die Schraube wieder hineindrehen.
Beim Laufdrehgestell muss nun der richtige Schleifer montiert werden."

http://www.hag.ch/images...q/01-anschlussschema.jpg

You spoke of converting a DC model to AC, so I presume that it would already have had the Permanent magnet, so I don't understand why your conversion would have required a change of magnet. Is it possible that the wrong magnet was installed as a change would not have been necessary for a DC model?
If it was an AC model that was converted, you should also make sure that the issue with the red marked screw has been addressed, but I stand with my initial suspected diagnosis that the problem may be related to the grounding of the chassis and contact with the other pole via the motor housing.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mario54i  
#531 Posted : 15 April 2016 16:01:17(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Torino,
Mike,

thanks for your help.
I didn't convert the engine myself. It is a Re456 Voralpen Express that I found in a Swiss shop at a good price in the late '90s. It was DC and the dealer converted it for me; he replaced wheels and put a 6090 decoder. He gave me the envelopes of the spare parts he used (but not the replaced parts) and there was the envelope of a 161216-90 i.e. a magnet. Reason unknown. The bill was around 250 CHF.
The loco was running but it was swinging on rails, as if the wheels were not aligned properly. The dealer said to run it slow on turnouts. I've never run it at high speed. So there was no wiring or decoder problem.
The failure happened now, when I decided to upgrade the loco with a better decoder and LED lights. I tested the motor standing alone on the bench connected to a lab power supply, as I usually do before connecting to decoder to ensure it's running well. First time I forgot the power supply set at 12 V and this caused the rotor crash shown in picture, second time with a new rotor this crash happened again when voltage was increased to 8 V. A further investigation showed a crack in a plastic gear, this was likely the cause of gear noise but gears were running without any effort.
I did this test on at least other five HAG engines and many Marklin ones and never seen a failure like this. I wonder why the rotor wires break this way, as if they were not firmly fixed to the iron core.
I know all shops close to the border in Wallis and Tessin, I live 100 km from Simplon. I'm just wondering if it's better to send the motor to factory, given the strange problem. Does HAG still have a repair workshop ?
Regards

Mario


Offline taliesin  
#532 Posted : 15 April 2016 18:29:42(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Not sure if this helps Mario, is the tiny washer still on the shaft by the commutator to stop it floating and is the housing clear of any old debris and is pulling up straight when you tighten the screws, cheers Rob
Offline Unholz  
#533 Posted : 16 April 2016 00:19:46(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: mario54i Go to Quoted Post
Does HAG still have a repair workshop ?


Yes, but having the job done there might turn out to be an expensive experience.Huh

It might be cheaper to buy either a complete new motor truck assembly or to search for a good bargain second-hand model on one of the on-line auction platforms and use this for spare parts.

Offline mike c  
#534 Posted : 16 April 2016 03:28:02(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: mario54i Go to Quoted Post
Mike,

thanks for your help.
I didn't convert the engine myself. It is a Re456 Voralpen Express that I found in a Swiss shop at a good price in the late '90s. It was DC and the dealer converted it for me; he replaced wheels and put a 6090 decoder. He gave me the envelopes of the spare parts he used (but not the replaced parts) and there was the envelope of a 161216-90 i.e. a magnet. Reason unknown. The bill was around 250 CHF.
The loco was running but it was swinging on rails, as if the wheels were not aligned properly. The dealer said to run it slow on turnouts. I've never run it at high speed. So there was no wiring or decoder problem.
The failure happened now, when I decided to upgrade the loco with a better decoder and LED lights. I tested the motor standing alone on the bench connected to a lab power supply, as I usually do before connecting to decoder to ensure it's running well. First time I forgot the power supply set at 12 V and this caused the rotor crash shown in picture, second time with a new rotor this crash happened again when voltage was increased to 8 V. A further investigation showed a crack in a plastic gear, this was likely the cause of gear noise but gears were running without any effort.
I did this test on at least other five HAG engines and many Marklin ones and never seen a failure like this. I wonder why the rotor wires break this way, as if they were not firmly fixed to the iron core.
I know all shops close to the border in Wallis and Tessin, I live 100 km from Simplon. I'm just wondering if it's better to send the motor to factory, given the strange problem. Does HAG still have a repair workshop ?
Regards

Mario


I don't have any Hag locomotives that have had a 6080/6090 installed. I know that for the Digitrax, Uhlenbrock, ESU and Zimo decoders of the more recent generations require the use of a permanent magnet. I am not sure if the same applied for the original 6080/6090 or whether your DC lok was in fact converted into an AC lok to work with a Maerklin Motorola decoder. If that was the case, then using the same lok with one of the newer decoder types would require that the magnet be converted again.

Can you post a photo of the chassis of your model, so that the wiring and motor are visible, so that we can see if the correct conversion has taken place?

Here is a site that advertises parts for Hag: www.buco-hag-maerklin-ersatzteile.ch

I don't understand why the lok is wobbling. I suppose that the dealer likely adjusted the DC wheelsets, rather than replacing them with the AC ones. The result may have been that the spacing was not perfect for Maerklin, hence the warning about turnouts. If you are willing to make the investment, I would replace the DC wheelsets with AC ones.

Around 2000, I bought a Hag Re 460 and discovered that a) it was not working and b) it was missing wiring. It looked like somebody had given up on a conversion project. I sent it in to Herr Alther at Hag and for about 200 CHF, they completed the wiring and installed a Hag 501 (I think it's a Digitraxx) decoder. I think that it must have been one of the last conversions before they introduced the ESU ones.

Once I have had the chance to view a photo, I will be able to better guide you in the correct direction.

Regards

Mike C
Online H0  
#535 Posted : 16 April 2016 07:53:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I know that for the Digitrax, Uhlenbrock, ESU and Zimo decoders of the more recent generations require the use of a permanent magnet. I am not sure if the same applied for the original 6080/6090 [...]
The 6090 was used with DC motors and it seems a permanent magnet was installed in this loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#536 Posted : 26 April 2016 19:22:25(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Stefan,

I came across this ebay listing and I was wondering if you had any information on the item? Is this a customized repaint or was the model delivered like this at one point?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/H...-SBB-Ep-3-/401111748172?

Regards

Mike C
Offline Unholz  
#537 Posted : 26 April 2016 19:57:56(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Mike, this looks very untypical. I doubt that it is an original HAG painting/printing job - more likely either privately done or then an early custom-made model from somebody like WABU or RUCO etc. The "builders plate" near the left entrance door is almost certainly a decal that was commercially available a long time ago.
Offline Harryv40  
#538 Posted : 27 April 2016 08:11:11(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
Stefan,
I used your information about Swiss Model Railway Shops on my visit to Luzern and Chur. I found it very useful thank you.

I hope you can answer a couple of questions, firstly I have purchased a new HAG 272-32 4/4 (400sfr) should I expect any issues or problems? Secondly, a dealer in the UK is advertising a large number of secondhand HAG locos, some have warranties dated 1997, do l face any issues buying them?

The last question really is this, are the older HAG locos better made then the newer ones?

Thanks for your help.

Harry
Online H0  
#539 Posted : 27 April 2016 08:26:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
The last question really is this, are the older HAG locos better made then the newer ones?
Some people say so, some people say so.

Some models by New HAG came with poor paintings, so not everything by New HAG is excellent.
Some models by Old HAG came with imperfect paintings, so not everything by Old HAG is excellent.
So better ask about specific models.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jvuye  
#540 Posted : 27 April 2016 10:39:11(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Stefan,

I came across this ebay listing and I was wondering if you had any information on the item? Is this a customized repaint or was the model delivered like this at one point?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/H...-SBB-Ep-3-/401111748172?

Regards

Mike C


I have exactly the same one + two pilot cars, purchased from Nev when he sold his HO collection.
They all came in a HAG box, with what seems to be original labels

DSC_0011.JPG

Stefan, do you think it's a custom job??

In any case.... I like it.😉

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Unholz  
#541 Posted : 27 April 2016 10:41:24(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
Stefan,
I used your information about Swiss Model Railway Shops on my visit to Luzern and Chur. I found it very useful thank you.


Nice to hear that it was useful, thanks for your feedback.

Quote:
I hope you can answer a couple of questions, firstly I have purchased a new HAG 272-32 4/4 (400sfr) should I expect any issues or problems? Secondly, a dealer in the UK is advertising a large number of secondhand HAG locos, some have warranties dated 1997, do l face any issues buying them?


With regard to the 272-32, that is actually a very old model produced in 1987. However, the large overstocks remaining in the current factory have been updated with the current electronic lighting and sound equipment, and therefore you should not experience any specific issues or problems.

As to the warranties, it depends on the legal situation. In this country, the dealer/seller is your contractual party, and the individual agreements/stipulations with him are relevant/binding with regard to the warranty situation. However, other jurisdictions may not allow any limitations/restrictions of consumer rights.

Personally, I would not be worried about "expired" warranties dated 1997. 99 percent of the HAG locos manufactured at that time will run flawlessly out of the box and almost forever, and the remaining percentage can always be repaired by simply re-soldering that "legendary" wire that has fallen off. Wink

Quote:
The last question really is this, are the older HAG locos better made then the newer ones?


Yes. BigGrin At least if you place importance on perfect exterior painting and printing quality of a model.

However, if you accept or even prefer fuzzy printing, occasional traces of glue applied to the body shell, colour separation lines that are not razor-sharp or buffers that fall off when critically looking at them, then please by all means buy the current products. SCNR...Flapper LOL

Offline Unholz  
#542 Posted : 27 April 2016 10:47:26(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Stefan, do you think it's a custom job??


Jacques, I think we are referring to different models: The one in your box is (I assume) the standard HAG model. However, the unit in Mike's Ebay picture has unusual colors, and the lettering is also non-standard (I refer to the builder plate next to the entrance door, the "Raucher" inscriptions plus the strange class designation on the right hand side).
Offline jvuye  
#543 Posted : 27 April 2016 10:57:41(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: mario54i Go to Quoted Post
Hello

Have you ever seen a rotor in these conditions ? It's an HAG Typ88 motor from a Re456.

damaged HAG Typ88 rotor

What happened ? This engine was converted from DC to AC digital by a professional, he replaced all he could change, including the magnet (!!!). Tha bill was quite high but the result was poor, the loco was swinging on rails, he advised me to run it slow on turnouts. More than ten years later I decided to upgrade that loco with a new decoder and LED lights, and at first to get rid of the swinging. I removed the motor from chassis, connected to a power supply, forgot it was set to 12 V and I heard a "crack". Absorbed current went immediately to zero and that was the reason.
Yesterday I found a new rotor and I replaced the broken one. This time I was careful, power supply was set initially to zero and voltage increased slowly. The engine started at 2 V drawing 120 mA, running was regular just with a strange gear noise, some oil helped. I increased voltage slowly without problems up to 8 V, then the current dropped again to zero. Another rotor gone.
What has happened ? I converted other HAG AC motors to DC for digital and never had problems.
What's your advice ? Sending to factory ? I don't feel confident buying another rotor and trying again, it's 32 CHF each.

Thanks for your help

Regards

Mario






Mario, can you please post a couple of pictures of the disassembled motor ?
What you describe is probably the result of a poor job on the original conversion.
I have converted and revised hundreds of HAG locos.... Never seen this!!!
The "swinging" on the rail is also an indication of something really wrong.
I'll try to give you some clearer indication after I see the pics.
Cheers
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#544 Posted : 27 April 2016 15:09:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
Secondly, a dealer in the UK is advertising a large number of secondhand HAG locos, some have warranties dated 1997, do l face any issues buying them?


If these items are from a dealer called antiquetoys1 then the items are definitely second hand, and he bought them at auction when a collection was auctioned off. The items have probably been laid up unused and the warranty is from a dealer in the UK who fitted 6080 decoders to a lot of items from the collection. If this is the dealer then look closely at his pricing as he is well known among a group of us as putting unrealistic prices on items he believes are rare or unusual.

If you can post the ebay auction number of an item you are interested in then much of this detail can possibly be confirmed.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Unholz  
#545 Posted : 27 April 2016 15:26:06(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Wow, some people here really seem to dislike the seller antiquetoys1... Bored His name even comes up when nobody thinks of him. But please take a look here:
https://www.marklin-user...osts/t35566-Antiquetoys1

Does it make a difference with regards to the warranty when and where somebody acquired his advertised Ebay items? Huh
Offline kiwiAlan  
#546 Posted : 27 April 2016 15:47:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Wow, some people here really seem to dislike the seller antiquetoys1... Bored His name even comes up when nobody thinks of him. But please take a look here:
https://www.marklin-user...osts/t35566-Antiquetoys1

Does it make a difference with regards to the warranty when and where somebody acquired his advertised Ebay items? Huh


I was really trying to be neutral in my opinion of him in this posting, and put a balanced view of how I see his dealings, while pointing out that a price on a particular item he sells may be "way out left field" and to get an opinion on it before committing to buying an overpriced item. I wasn't saying the items definitely come from him, but I am aware that the collection did have a fair amount of Hag items, and much of the stuff had warranties from the period mentioned, which leads me to believe this may be the source of the items the member was mentioning.

But if the items that were referred to are from the auction collection, then they are way out of warranty period, and may need some work done on them to get smooth running, as they may well have not been run since 1997.

My post was meant more as a 'heads up' on the likely condition of the items rather than a criticism of the dealer I mentioned.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline mike c  
#547 Posted : 27 April 2016 17:10:27(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
The seller Antiquetoys1 recently posted an auction for a TEE livery version of the Maerklin 3014 Re 4/4I. His listing was full of assumptions and suggestions about the provenance of the model and it had a "Buy It Now" price in excess of 2000 EUR. I sent him a message that the item was probably a product from Minirex, Emag or other, possibly including the German Shop Schweiger. I also informed him that the item was perhaps worth 500 EUR but not more. Within hours, he had adapted his listing and lowered the price.
I was amused to find that he still had the same item listed at the 2000 EUR price on other ebay sites. He has since reduced those listings to a lower level ($824 US).

As far as his Hag items, most of them were digitized in the mid-1990s and have been outfitted with the older 6080 type Maerklin/Motorola decoder. It is possible that updating the decoder to the current generation (Lokpilot/Loksound) would require replacement of the magnet and other modifications. I would also expect that 20 year old items would not have any warranty on the conversion/decoder any more. That said, there is no reason that these models would not work as well as any other Hag model from the same time period.

Regards

Mike C

Offline mario54i  
#548 Posted : 28 April 2016 19:28:58(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Torino,
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post



Mario, can you please post a couple of pictures of the disassembled motor ?
What you describe is probably the result of a poor job on the original conversion.
I have converted and revised hundreds of HAG locos.... Never seen this!!!
The "swinging" on the rail is also an indication of something really wrong.
I'll try to give you some clearer indication after I see the pics.
Cheers
Jacques



Jacques, thanks for your message.

These are the pictures of the disassembled motor.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

There is a crack in the upper plastic gear. When I opened the motor after the first crash, the metal gear on top of the plastic gear was loose and came out easily. I reinserted it and replaced the rotor and it broke again. I suspect the metal gear has moved when running at high speed and cut the windings. The loco was likely swinging as there was a wheel running idle and another misaligned with the axle.
Poor conversion, needless to say I never went to that shop ( now closed ) again.
Thanks again for your help

Regards

Mario



Offline Unholz  
#549 Posted : 02 May 2016 09:23:13(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
How low can they get...?

Up to a couple of years ago, HAG were a manufacturer respected for their precision models of realistic prototypes.

And now? Take a look at the following stuff. Believe it or not, but they are actually beginning to sell trash and rejected models and "child's play" experiments at their so-called factory shop Loki-Depot Horw near Lucerne. Can such apparent acts of desperation really be taken seriously? Crying Scared

http://trains.wipertech....eriaBeschreibung=Bourret
http://trains.wipertech....CriteriaBeschreibung=mch
http://trains.wipertech....riteriaBeschreibung=horw
Offline Harryv40  
#550 Posted : 02 May 2016 13:15:50(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
I also found that they don't encourage overseas buyers. I contacted Loki Depot Horz in English and very question was answered in Germany. I stayed in Luzern for a couple of days but did not go to the HAG shop, I glad I did not now.

Harry
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