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Offline siroljuk  
#1 Posted : 28 January 2016 17:16:23(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Hello,
I just put my new Ltd3 decoder in the wrong direction on the circuit board. And of course it was burned.
But . . . as far as I can see only one component is damaged look the pictures:

Dercoder:UserPostedImage

other side:UserPostedImage

and broken component:UserPostedImage

Does anyone know what is that burned component?( the lowest row and the left one in the last picture)

It is possible to fix it if I could know what is the component and what is its' value.

Happy Training

Regards

Jukka



Offline 3rail4life  
#2 Posted : 29 January 2016 01:50:56(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Hi Jukka,

Sorry to hear about the misfortune with the new decoder, why they do not make it so that this will not happen is a mystery, Cursing at the very least they should include a separate warning sheet, as this happens way too often...

I am not sure of what the component is that failed, maybe a tantalum capacitorConfused, but I appreciate you sharing it, here are couple of pictures showing what it may have looked like before the poof. I would think an electronic expert will recognize what it is, and possibly with some expert soldering it could be repaired.





Cheers,

Gordon

btw, I think your decoder is an mLD3, 60972
Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 29 January 2016 02:29:17(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I understand a 21mtc decoder can only be inserted in one direction, it has 21 pins but the decoder has 22 holes with one hole not being pressed through, so if you're trying to insert it the other way you shouldn't be able to do so. when you look closely at Gordon's photo you can see on the right hand side the 22th hole is not punched through. whether you can punch it through with force is another question or you have to bend the pin sideways so the other pins fit into their position unless you've fitted the decoder outwards upside down instead of inwards. I bought an ESU decoder tester a couple of month back and experienced a similar problem. it is always the norm to insert the decoder within the perimeter of the 21 mtc board but noticed the decoder had to be inserted upside down and one excepts these changes with different gadgets and you don't ask yourself should it really be that way., anyhow cutting the story short, it didn't work and send a message to ESU and they said this is very unusal that the decoder tester doesn't work and they offered me a replacement. In the back of my head I've started to think have I done something wrong and I've connected the decoder outwards away from the 21 pin adapter plate and bingo it worked perfectly, felt a bit like a fool but I can cope with this.

the other problem you could face is by removing the electronic component, I've got a solder iron with 2 tongs and this will enable you to remove the component 2 soldering spots at the same time., but I can't help you with the component itself, if you can un-solder it take it to an electronic shop and see if they can identify it.



John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline 3rail4life  
#4 Posted : 29 January 2016 02:44:33(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Good eye John, I did not notice that they made that change to the board, pin 22 blockedBlushing. Now I am wondering, how did this happen again?
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 29 January 2016 04:49:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Good eye John, I did not notice that they made that change to the board, pin 22 blockedBlushing. Now I am wondering, how did this happen again?


with my ESU decoder tester it did not ruin the decoder but it was definitely put in the wrong way, I'm surprised if this what Jukka did it should not have blown the decoder but by forcing it into the wrong way and bending the 21st pin this pin may accidentally had contact with another pin and hence shortened it, only Jukka would know what he has and how he has done it. was the 21st Pin bent and how did he connect the decoder to the adapter plate but in the end it is more important can he get it fixed ?

as I've mentioned before undoing one side of the component may ruin the solder pad on the other side when trying to lift it maybe by de-soldering it may help a bit.

If you would lived closer it could have been a possibility to send the decoder to me, I desolder the part and find out if there is a component like this out there and solder it back and see what happens.
A friend of mine had a faulty sound decoder and I've replaced a part (but no component was visible of any damage) and the part I've replaced wasn't the part that caused the fault, maybe I have a second go and look at it under the microscope and there are experts out there which can guide you to possible components which could cause a fault.

regards.,

John


solder iron0000.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline siroljuk  
#6 Posted : 29 January 2016 08:09:07(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Thanks everyone for your replies:
Look this picture:

UserPostedImage

It is the base-board and there is no pin which would prevent to install decoder wrong.
My fault of course and I think that it is cheapest way to by new one from Germany.

So thanks anyway for offering repairing John. I have decided to try to repair it by myselfSad let's see what will happen.

Good teaching again for me to be more careful and think before do anything.

If somebody should find out what component this is please tell me. I take now a break and wait for new decoder first from Lippe.

Anayway

Happy Training everyone

Regards

Jukka








Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Good eye John, I did not notice that they made that change to the board, pin 22 blockedBlushing. Now I am wondering, how did this happen again?


with my ESU decoder tester it did not ruin the decoder but it was definitely put in the wrong way, I'm surprised if this what Jukka did it should not have blown the decoder but by forcing it into the wrong way and bending the 21st pin this pin may accidentally had contact with another pin and hence shortened it, only Jukka would know what he has and how he has done it. was the 21st Pin bent and how did he connect the decoder to the adapter plate but in the end it is more important can he get it fixed ?

as I've mentioned before undoing one side of the component may ruin the solder pad on the other side when trying to lift it maybe by de-soldering it may help a bit.

If you would lived closer it could have been a possibility to send the decoder to me, I desolder the part and find out if there is a component like this out there and solder it back and see what happens.
A friend of mine had a faulty sound decoder and I've replaced a part (but no component was visible of any damage) and the part I've replaced wasn't the part that caused the fault, maybe I have a second go and look at it under the microscope and there are experts out there which can guide you to possible components which could cause a fault.

regards.,

John


solder iron0000.JPG

Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 29 January 2016 08:15:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jukka, it is unusual for a decoder to fail and I can't see the 21st Pin being bent. the other question arises has the decoder been installed beforehand, by stating all the wires had been soldered from the decoder to the various outlets, if this is the case you may ruin another decoder so i would double check i9f all the wires are correctly connected and no wire is touching ground

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 29 January 2016 08:25:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
It is the base-board and there is no pin which would prevent to install decoder wrong.
When you install the decoder the wrong way around you cannot push it down all the way - a small gap remains on one side.
Everybody should remember that: do not apply power if a small gap remains!

There is no hole in the green decoder PCB, but the black plastic shaft is hollow and therefore only the last millimetre is missing from pushing it down all the way.
The contacts are in the plastic shaft and the missing hole does not prevent the blue smoke from escaping. Bad plug design, so keep your eyes open.

With Märklin and ESU locos the black plastic piece is away from the loco board (with other brands it is the other way around).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline siroljuk  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2016 10:27:43(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Hello.

Thanks again for your replies and advises.

All wires were soldered right places before I put decoder to it's place. but I had to remove decoder once and I did put it back wrong.
It is not easy to see that cap in this case when base-board is in its place.
I was careless, even though I've made these changes many times.Blushing Blushing

Happy Training everyone

Regards

Jukka
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2016 11:45:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I understand a 21mtc decoder can only be inserted in one direction, it has 21 pins but the decoder has 22 holes with one hole not being pressed through, so if you're trying to insert it the other way you shouldn't be able to do so. when you look closely at Gordon's photo you can see on the right hand side the 22th hole is not punched through. whether you can punch it through with force is another question or you have to bend the pin sideways so the other pins fit into their position unless you've fitted the decoder outwards upside down instead of inwards. I bought an ESU decoder tester a couple of month back and experienced a similar problem. it is always the norm to insert the decoder within the perimeter of the 21 mtc board but noticed the decoder had to be inserted upside down and one excepts these changes with different gadgets and you don't ask yourself should it really be that way., anyhow cutting the story short, it didn't work and send a message to ESU and they said this is very unusal that the decoder tester doesn't work and they offered me a replacement. In the back of my head I've started to think have I done something wrong and I've connected the decoder outwards away from the 21 pin adapter plate and bingo it worked perfectly, felt a bit like a fool but I can cope with this.

the other problem you could face is by removing the electronic component, I've got a solder iron with 2 tongs and this will enable you to remove the component 2 soldering spots at the same time., but I can't help you with the component itself, if you can un-solder it take it to an electronic shop and see if they can identify it.



John


It doesn't stop you putting it on upside down though. I suspect that may be what has happened here.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2016 11:49:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Thanks everyone for your replies:

So thanks anyway for offering repairing John. I have decided to try to repair it by myselfSad let's see what will happen.

Good teaching again for me to be more careful and think before do anything.

If somebody should find out what component this is please tell me. I take now a break and wait for new decoder first from Lippe.

Anayway

Happy Training everyone

Regards

Jukka




I would just send the decoder back as 'faulty' and see if they give you a warranty replacement. Cheeky I know, but i don't know that they would check up to see what failed, it would probably just go in a bin as a 'early bathtub curve failure'.
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