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Offline Mark5  
#1 Posted : 28 October 2015 03:24:06(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Well Ladies and Gents,

Looks like I have another part time job on my hands.
I have recently bought 25 vintage Märklin locos and about 12 Roco locos in one go.

They all need maintenance, and some without boxes need identification.
Its likely I will want to sell or swap a few of these.

So bear with me, because I will be asking quite a few questions, one at a time.

I was trying to read the German entries on the ÖBB 1189.02 and the dates of the orange livery.
Seems like an interesting history, but no mention of the actually dates they first started with this colour, AKAIK.

A good image of this here:
http://www.bahnbilder.de...unden-270777--564375.jpg

This is what the translation reads:

"....BBÖ 1100
BBÖ 1100 / BBÖ 1100.1 / ÖBB 1089 / ÖBB 1189
The 1100.102 at the head of the special train in Gumpoldskirchen.
The 1100.102 at the head of the special train in Gumpoldskirchen.
Numbering: BBÖ 1100.01-07
BBÖ 1100.101-109
ÖBB 1089.01-07 (with gap)
ÖBB 1189.01-09
Quantity: BBÖ 1100: 7
BBÖ 1100.1: 9
ÖBB 1089: 6
ÖBB 1189: 9
Manufacturer: BBC / Wien, Floridsdorf
Year (s): 1923-24 /
1926/27
Retirement: up to 1979
Axle configuration: (1'C) (C1 ')
Track width: 1435 mm (standard gauge)
Length over buffer: 22,350 mm /
22.400 mm
Overall wheelbase: 17,700 mm
Service weight: 113.6 t /
116 t
Friction mass: 89 t /
91.2 t
Radsatzfahrmasse: 14.8 t /
15.2 t
Top speed: 65 km / h /
75 km / h
Hourly output: 1800 kW / 53 km / h /
1900 kW / 55 km / h
Continuous power: 1600 kW / 57 km / h /
1740 kW / 60 km / h
Starting tractive effort: 220 kN /
224 kN
Driving wheel diameter: 1.350 mm
Impeller diameter: 870 mm
Engine type: 1 ~ Rs
Power system: 15 kV / 16 2/3 of Hz
Number of traction motors: 4
Drive: Group drive with countershaft
Locomotive brake: Vacuum brake later Druckluftbremse
Train brake: Vacuum brake later Druckluftbremse

The BBÖ 1100 and 1100.1 were BBÖ electric express train locomotives in crocodile shape results from the interwar period in the service of the Austrian Federal Railways (then BBÖ). The first copies were put into service in 1923/24. After the annexation of Austria in 1938, the designated German Reichsbahn them as E 89 (1100) as well as E 89.1 (1100.1). After the Second World War, the remaining machines as the ÖBB in 1089 and 1189 to the ÖBB were refounded Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB), they completely cockerels until the year 1979th

Table of Contents

1 History
2 machines Received
3 Literature
4 See also
5 Weblinks

History
1189.02, here after their retirement in Attnang-Puchheim, received only one blood oranges paint. (1980)

For the ramp routes Arlbergbahn the BBÖ required electrically driven express locomotives. The beginning of the 1920s there was the rod drive is no viable alternative. The decision was made ​​in favor of a design by Swiss model, the SBB Ce 6/8 II. The series 1100 and 1100.1 are the only "crocodile" -Bauarten Austria. In contrast to the model of a slightly simpler drive was elected by a single connecting rod, connecting both the dummy shaft and the drive wheels. To avoid any confusion: Of course there were a total of four such rods.

The first seven aircraft were of Brown Boveri & Cie (electrical part) and of the locomotive factory Floridsdorf (mechanical part) delivered in 1923/24. 1925-26 was followed by further nine locomotives, the stronger and slightly heavier compared to initial delivery of goods (see. Table). The erstgelieferten seven vehicles received the designation series 1100 last nine 1100.1. They were first in Innsbruck, and later in Salzburg stationed, from where it appropriately on the Arlberg and Tauernbahn were used to the full satisfaction. In the valley routes they were locomotives of the series 1670 superseded.

The German Reichsbahn she called after the annexation of Austria in 1938 as E 89 (1100) and as E 89.1 (1100.1).

In World War II, two former 1100s were destroyed. One of them, 1100.01, was supported by the ÖBB, rebuilt in 1953 the vehicles the row numbers in 1089 and 1189 and used zuwies nor more than twenty years in its intended role.

Until 1979 the machines were fully decommissioned, including contributing to the lubrication of the drive a second man to guide the machine made it necessary.
Machines Received
1189.09 in the Railway Museum Ampflwang, 2008 version

The 1189.02 has been preserved until today and is used for stringing of nostalgia trains. She is wearing her original number currently 1100.102 and was also the only locomotive of its series, which still received a blood oranges paint in the 1970s. 1089.06 is the Sinsheim Auto & Technik Museum, the 1189.05 the Railway Museum Strasshof. 1189.09 level since the opening of the freight depot (1983) in Wolfurt as motorless monument in front of the customs building. The municipality of Wolfurt has this locomotive of ÖGEG for the Railway and Mining Museum in Ampflwang as permanent loan left. ...."

....When did they first start using the orange livery???

- Mark


ps... The Roco version of this model that I have runs beautifully, but I need the self-discipline to stick to my own era. Smile

Edited by user 28 November 2015 00:28:08(UTC)  | Reason: Subject line updated

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 28 October 2015 16:26:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Mark, will look into it, at the same time if you're not keeping this loco I may be interested in it but the loco running number would have to be vital.


page 6: http://www.activitysimul...ocumentation/MSTS_AU.PDF

regards.,


john
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline waorb  
#3 Posted : 28 October 2015 16:29:30(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Hello Mark.

Nice to see a photo of the prototype of ÖBB... I recently bought one from Roco (DC) with the exact Loc number 1189-02.

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

Walter

IMG_3413.JPG
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Offline Mark5  
#4 Posted : 28 October 2015 16:49:57(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanks so much for looking into that John.

I love the loco...would have been amazing to see it running during era 3, but the earliest photo I saw seem to be 1977.
It would be a shame to let it go,
but I have more on my hands than I can manage for the time being.
So best to find new homes for some of them.
Stay tuned to see some beautiful finds.

Your looks great on the set Walter!.... It runs wonderfully doesn't it?
A bit concerned about that abyss alongside your track though! Wink

Mine is in perfect physical condition and I am impressed with these Roco locos' running abilities. - Mark

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Markus Schild  
#5 Posted : 28 October 2015 23:15:51(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Mark,

Following this page: http://bahnbilder.warumdenn.net/17073.htm the 1189.02 was painted orange in 1971. The first locos were painted in that colour in 1968. The colour - scheme is known as "Jaffa" (like the fruits from Israel) in Europe.

Regards

Markus

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Offline Mark5  
#6 Posted : 29 October 2015 00:03:30(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Fantastic. Thank you Marcus.
Now that really is interesting...
I guess most of those oranges are exported to Central Europe.
Even after living 12 years in Portugal I had never heard of them.

Jaffa oranges: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_orange

Some of the information says it is now used for tourist trains and shows it pulling what look to me like umbauwagon/re-builds.
Do you know what kind of runs/trains they would have pulled in 68. With that power, I am guessing mostly freight, or would they have been too diminished wrt to other more powerful locomotives?

- Mark

Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark,

Following this page: http://bahnbilder.warumdenn.net/17073.htm the 1189.02 was painted orange in 1971. The first locos were painted in that colour in 1968. The colour - scheme is known as "Jaffa" (like the fruits from Israel) in Europe.

Regards

Markus

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Markus Schild  
#7 Posted : 29 October 2015 00:31:55(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Mark,

Mostly freight trains. But also local passenger trains: http://www.drehscheibe-o....php?17,7254410,page=all

Regards

Markus
Offline waorb  
#8 Posted : 29 October 2015 01:55:19(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post

Your looks great on the set Walter!.... It runs wonderfully doesn't it?
A bit concerned about that abyss alongside your track though! Wink

Cool
Yes... runs really well! Was a good finding.

Abyss? Blink Never realize it... Huummm... nice idea... maybe a pair of small leds in the shadows... Scared creeeeppy... LOL

Cheers,

Walter

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Offline Mark5  
#9 Posted : 29 October 2015 02:11:44(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Great link and really amazing photos. Thank you Marcus.
There is one of the 1189.02 with freight cars, but I didn't see one of it pulling passenger trains.
Did I miss it?
- Mark

Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark,

Mostly freight trains. But also local passenger trains: http://www.drehscheibe-o....php?17,7254410,page=all

Regards

Markus


DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Mark5  
#10 Posted : 28 November 2015 01:18:11(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Ok, the short romance with the ÖBB 1189.02 is over.
I sold locally for $150 Canadian to a fine gentleman.
==========

Moving on now to the Märklin SEH 800 which I plan to keep
and also show tomorrow at the Dutch-train themed Brampton meet.

I found an image in the 1955 catalogue, and the '54 Spanish catalogue does not have it, so far I am assuming that 1955 is the first year it appeared.
I will post some images.

My question concerns the traction tires and wheels.

In the photos I tried to show the traction wheels and it seems their are either flattened from use without traction tires or they used the hard clear traction tires.
I am wondering how I should proceed. If run the train without new tires, I only wear down the wheels more, so obviously, I'd like to know if I need to replace the wheels themselves and how that can be done, or put a black rubber tire over these wheels. If putting black tires over this is the solution, my concern is the worn down lip will simply allow the tires to slid off.

Cosmetically the model is very good. The motor runs very well. It would be nice for it be more than a display piece.
Your comments and expertise are appreciated.

(Amazing the lint you see when you take photos!)

SEH800-full-view-with-blocks_C_4060.jpgSEH800-wheels_C_4066.jpgSEH800-wheels_C_4067.jpgSEH800-wheels_C_4063.jpgSEH800-on-layout_D_4071.jpg
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark5
Offline Mark5  
#11 Posted : 28 November 2015 01:26:14(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Image of SEH 800 from 1955 Märklin Catalogue:

SEH800-Holland-Electric-Lok-Catalogue-image.jpg
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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Offline michelvr  
#12 Posted : 28 November 2015 01:44:50(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Now that is special!

Michel
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#13 Posted : 28 November 2015 02:06:30(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
.....My question concerns the traction tires and wheels.

In the photos I tried to show the traction wheels and it seems their are either flattened from use without traction tires or they used the hard clear traction tires.
I am wondering how I should proceed. If run the train without new tires, I only wear down the wheels more, so obviously, I'd like to know if I need to replace the wheels themselves and how that can be done, or put a black rubber tire over these wheels. If putting black tires over this is the solution, my concern is the worn down lip will simply allow the tires to slid off.
............


Hi Mark,

I am relatively inexperienced in the traction tire space, because most of my locos are post-2000.

That being said, I see your tires and wheel as being quite normal.
I am unable to see any wear in what you call the "lip".
I would be inclined to leave tires as is, or replace them with the black ones. I doubt if you will have any trouble.

Good photos by the way.

of course I will defer to others who have greater knowledge of these older machines.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Mark5  
#14 Posted : 28 November 2015 02:25:03(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thank you Kimball,

I found some info from Eckert posted as an ebay guide.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/...10000000006744186/g.html

Seems if I measure the wheels I can find the black rubber one that suits it best.
Hard to see the wear on my photos though... even while photoshop makes them look sharp enough.
Perhaps its a question of scraping off the old ones as mentioned in the Eckerts guide.

The loco does sound rough on the rails, which may also be in part a factor of these older locomotives.

- Mark

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark5
Offline Mark5  
#15 Posted : 28 November 2015 03:04:25(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Update on my own comment:
The rough sound was when running on the Mädchenbahn's—in a few spots wobbly—M-track.
But on the C-track with R3 curves it runs as smooth as if it were made yesterday at full throttle.
It has been sitting in the box since before 1995 and it may be up to 60 years old.
Remarkable how well it runs in light of that.

Thanks to Kimball's comment I shall keep them on for now and run the loco, unless someone has advice to the contrary.
- Mark

Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post

[...]
The loco does sound rough on the rails, which may also be in part a factor of these older locomotives.

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark5
Offline Markus Schild  
#16 Posted : 28 November 2015 08:03:51(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Mark,

I just see that everything is fine and the wheels are just like new. The clear rubbers are still on their place and should not be replaced. Collectors mostly prefer these original tyres. It is typical that the clear rubbers had become a little bit yellow with the years.

Regards

Markus
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Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 30 November 2015 19:14:53(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I have an old CE 800 with those clear rubbers, no worries about those - they are more durable than black ones, maybe not as grippy as the blackies but better than none...

Regarding noises, I had a RET 400 about 20 years ago and it really made the layout rumble with its weight and noises...
Fully normal for these old heavy 50's loks with a bit "tolerant" wheel flanges that can negotiate any curves too... Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline MalinAC  
#18 Posted : 01 December 2015 12:48:23(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
My 3015 has the clear tyres as well and still in good shape Cool Cool
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Offline Mark5  
#19 Posted : 03 December 2015 18:33:43(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thank you Juhan, Malin and Marcus,

Glad to have the confirmation.
She ran like a charm at our event, smooth and silky on C-track and nice R3 curves.
More later,
Mark

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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