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Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 16 November 2015 08:09:13(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
For many years, since the days when I had a Intellibox I have used a LDT HSI-88 (see http://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:hsi-88 ) to capture the signals from the s88 units and pass this data through the PC to WindiPet. The HSI-88 has a serial interface that connects to the PC's USB port through a serial to USB interface. This has worked since 2004, when I first ran a computer controlled layout.

In Windows 7 I started to see problems, when the Windows Update kept trying to replace the driver with this one: "Prolific - Other hardware - Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port." starting around three years ago. Not a problem. In Windows 7 I was able to stop the update from being applied to the system. (This sounds trivial, but the first time it happened I tore my hair out for three days trying to figure out what had changed - but that's another story).

Along comes Windows 10. After having good success with two of our laptops, I decided to upgrade Windows 10 onto the Train Room computer. For a week, everything was working great and then there was an update. Of course, I knew what had happened, but this time there was no mechanism to revert to an earlier version. I should also mention that the driver for my ASUS portable Blu-Ray writer (used for archival storage (long term backup) from the Train Room computer) also died and could not be reverted.

It is not possible, or at least economically feasible, to connect the s88s to the eCOS because they are located too far away from the eCOS. In any case, there is a long-term up and down history of connecting many s88s to the eCOS and CS2. I don't need that headache - I want to enjoy my hobby..

Windows 10 is cursed with this update can't be stopped mindset, so I reverted to Windows 7 to regain control of my layout. Easy to do, in case you need to do it, but you only have 1 month!

I need to move with the times and ultimately Windows 10 is the way forward, if I want to maintain a secure and robust environment for the layout.

So is there anyone else on the forum using Windows 10 Professional who can answer these questions:
1. Is there a suitable serial to usb converter that works with Windows 10 and is immune to driver updates?
2. Does the USB version of the HSI-88 work with Windows 10? (see http://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:hsi-88-usb)
3. Is there another s88 bus available that works with Windows 10, WindigiPet and the Marklin/Viessmann s88 units?

Edited by user 22 January 2016 02:28:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Adrian
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 16 November 2015 08:19:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I need to move with the times and ultimately Windows 10 is the way forward, if I want to maintain a secure and robust environment for the layout.
I used Windows XP as long as Microsoft provided security updates. Now I'll use Windows 8.1 as long as M$ provide security updates.

IMHO Windows 10 is currently neither mature nor robust nor secure.

Security updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 will continue for a couple of years.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Online kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 16 November 2015 08:43:38(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Adrian,
We routinely sell the serial to USB cable at work, so I will ask questions.
Will let you know if anything comes of it.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline xxup  
#4 Posted : 16 November 2015 09:37:20(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Thanks Kimball.. This would be the cheapest and quickest option.. Smile
Adrian
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 16 November 2015 13:48:27(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
prolific have updated their driver so it will no longer work with counterfeit chips, and I suspect the cable you have has a counterfeit Prolific USB-Serial chip in it.

You may not be aware of the furore when they provided a Win8 driver that locked up the counterfeit chips (around October 2014 IIRC) by writing to them in a way that made them unrecognizable to the driver - but it went worse than that, the chip would no longer work with Linux or any other operating system. That driver was very quickly withdrawn and it seems they have now gone the passive 'it won't work' route.

The most reliable USB-serial devices appear to be ones made by FTDI, although they have also been counterfeited, but as prolifically (pun intended). As you are in Australia you should be able to source a good cable from Farnell or RS by searching for 'USB serial FTDI'.

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Offline xxup  
#6 Posted : 16 November 2015 14:10:03(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Adrian
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 16 November 2015 14:38:17(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post


Yeah, looks fine to me, I know FTDI stuff is not cheap (probably why people counterfeit them).

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Offline rorosha  
#8 Posted : 16 November 2015 18:28:12(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
prolific have updated their driver so it will no longer work with counterfeit chips, and I suspect the cable you have has a counterfeit Prolific USB-Serial chip in it.

You may not be aware of the furore when they provided a Win8 driver that locked up the counterfeit chips (around October 2014 IIRC) by writing to them in a way that made them unrecognizable to the driver - but it went worse than that, the chip would no longer work with Linux or any other operating system. That driver was very quickly withdrawn and it seems they have now gone the passive 'it won't work' route.

The most reliable USB-serial devices appear to be ones made by FTDI, although they have also been counterfeited, but as prolifically (pun intended). As you are in Australia you should be able to source a good cable from Farnell or RS by searching for 'USB serial FTDI'.



Actually FTDI rewrote their drivers (for windows only) to set internal flags which the counterfeit chips had improperly implemented, thus disabling the counterfeit chips. The chips could be restored by reverting to an earlier driver version. The changes made were not intended to disable the clone chips, as much as to try to improve performance in a hostile environment (windows). It was serendipity that it disabled the clones. At least that's what I read.

Prolific chips are a different story. There are too many authorized clones to count, and even more versions of the drivers. Some clones implement functions differently, and some drivers utilize the chips differently. So, what you run into there are compatibility issues. Use a prolific chip only with the driver it came with. Updating the driver often causes the chip to not function properly.

All I use are genuine FTDI parts, and have never had a problem. But remember to buy from a reputable source. eBay is not, Amazon is not any more.

Rodger
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Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 19 November 2015 11:17:08(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Thanks everyone for your help. I can confirm that the FTDI cable I purchased from Element 14/Farnell works perfectly with Windows 10. Everything is humming along nicely now.. Smile
Adrian
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 21 November 2015 13:17:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Thanks everyone for your help. I can confirm that the FTDI cable I purchased from Element 14/Farnell works perfectly with Windows 10. Everything is humming along nicely now.. Smile


Ah, good to see that success has ensued.

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