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Offline taliesin  
#451 Posted : 16 May 2015 10:52:30(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Rob, if the single light you mention is on the lower right side (and showing on both ends of the railcar set), then this is the so-called parking light (Parklicht in German). This would be prototypical.


Ah ha, thanks, I am still in the British world of oil lamps BigGrin , cheers Rob
BTW Christian has my order for a 922
Offline taliesin  
#452 Posted : 16 May 2015 13:27:38(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Admittedly, using masking tape to achieve a nice color separation line is not an easy task - but professionals should know how to accomplish this.

Take a look at the area above the front windows:

Re 420 LION

On the positive side, the running characteristics of the model I tested were surprisingly good even in analogue AC operation. Could it be that they are finally beginning to listen to their critics instead of stubbornly ignoring them? Wink


For comparison Marklin's Re 420, cat no 37348
[img=UserPostedImageIMG_0603 by Robert Cant, on Flickr]Marklin Re420[/img]

As you can see from this admittedly poor picture our boys and girls at Goppingen have learnt how to use masking tape.
Metal body? you got it! Metal chassis? you got it!. Digital? yes with Marklin's own MFX, not surprisingly when I put it on to the track it said "yo blood" to the MS2 and they bonded immediately.
New Hag attaches great importance to lights, well this has lights in abundance, different combinations of front, rear and warning lights, not to mention cab lights as well.
Sounds? oh yes, engine, compressor, brakes, whistles (both loco and guards) the list goes on.
It is quiet, smooth and appears to have all the power that I will ever need plus more on top, this appears to be available for around 235 euro's, I think someone needs to raise their game a whole lot more....... regards Rob

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Offline taliesin  
#453 Posted : 16 May 2015 16:38:50(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
This afternoon a friend talked me through the Hag gtw, it would appear that the decoder is faulty or I have done something stupid, not unheard of Mad . So monday will see me contacting the dealer in Holland and arranging shipping so his technician can sort it out, hopefully the bill won't be to big, I will update when it's fixed and back again but in the meantime I will just have to play with the other stuff BigGrin , regards to all, Rob
Offline Unholz  
#454 Posted : 16 May 2015 18:08:20(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Rob, but you are aware that the decoder is most easily accessible under one of the covers/hoods on the roof and can simply be detached?

Frankly, it seems a bit unpractical to send such a delicate model back and forth between the UK and Holland when you could simply insert an ESU decoder from a second model and see what happens then.

Take a look at the location of the decoder on top of the green printed circuit board: http://hag-info.ch/hag/f.../userpix/177_GTW_7_1.jpg
Offline taliesin  
#455 Posted : 16 May 2015 18:20:35(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Rob, but you are aware that the decoder is most easily accessible under one of the covers/hoods on the roof and can simply be detached?

Frankly, it seems a bit unpractical to send such a delicate model back and forth between the UK and Holland when you could simply insert an ESU decoder from a second model and see what happens then.

Take a look at the location of the decoder on top of the green printed circuit board: http://hag-info.ch/hag/f.../userpix/177_GTW_7_1.jpg

Thanks Stefan, I know where the decoder is and it just pulls off, it's knowing which one to buy, how to set it up with the MS2 thats the problem, does the MS2 software have to be up to date??? cheers Rob

Offline Unholz  
#456 Posted : 16 May 2015 18:35:45(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Rob, take an ESU Lokpilot model no. 64614. They are currently quite cheap (less than 30 Euros/Swiss Francs), easily available and suitable for HAG GTW's. Without sound, but at the moment you want to determine whether something is wrong with your railcar rather than listening to the "music". Testing the model with a second decoder seems less of a hassle to me than the shipping adventure. Wink

http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...okpilot/lokpilot-v40-m4/
Offline taliesin  
#457 Posted : 16 May 2015 18:44:21(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Rob, take an ESU Lokpilot model no. 64614. They are currently quite cheap (less than 30 Euros/Swiss Francs), easily available and suitable for HAG GTW's. Without sound, but at the moment you want to determine whether something is wrong with your railcar rather than listening to the "music". Testing the model with a second decoder seems less of a hassle to me than the shipping adventure. Wink

http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...okpilot/lokpilot-v40-m4/


Funnily enough I have just got off the phone to my friend who has told me to do the same, he reckons it's time I learnt of such things myself and also buy a analogue controller for a basic test as well. First try analogue, then lokpilot, then if all is well go sound card again, cheers Rob

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Offline taliesin  
#458 Posted : 19 May 2015 18:42:20(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
So today I receive a Marklin 6647 analogue controller and a 21 pin blanking plug. I try the gtw with the decoder still in it using the analogue controller and the sound card starts up and the engine moves. So I take out the decoder, fit the blanking plug and nothing happens. So I re-fit the decoder and try again. Yet again the sound card starts up and the engine moves.
I phone up the Dealer in Holland and explain this, he is surprised and asks me to try to enter it into the MS2 again to see if it works. I try again but nothing happens so phone him again and explain.
He has requested that I send it back to Holland for testing and repair so I have just dropped it off at a courier to deliver, further news as it happens Sad , regards Rob
Offline mike c  
#459 Posted : 19 May 2015 20:25:00(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Some older models from Roco and other manufacturers worked in analogue mode when you inserted a pin into the decoder socket that linked circuits. On other models, AC operation is only possible with a decoder installed because the model is in effect a DC model that requires the decoder to be installed to convert the analog AC voltage and reverse pulse into DC needed to power the motor. I do not have the Hag GTW, so I cannot comment on that specific model, but hopefully Stefan or Jacques Vuyes can advise on whether this is recommended or not.

If you want to test the GTW, your best option would be to take the decoder from another locomotive with a similar decoder and socket and test it to see if it works.
Better yet, if you want to see whether the GTW decoder is blown, remove it and test it on another locomotive. That way, you can see if the decoder is still working without the risk of frying another decoder if something is wrong with your GTW.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline taliesin  
#460 Posted : 19 May 2015 21:55:11(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Thanks Mike, what you say sounds entirely plausible regarding the chip and AC power. I do not however possess another chip of a similar nature, or loco I can easily swap it with. It is now on it's way back to Holland as we speak, cheers Rob
Offline Unholz  
#461 Posted : 03 June 2015 10:18:36(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
For those among you who are awaiting delivery of their Ee 922 "Papamobile" shunter, here is a nice video showing the lighting and sound features:
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Offline river6109  
#462 Posted : 12 June 2015 13:13:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
here is something for historic lovers


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline taliesin  
#463 Posted : 13 June 2015 12:43:51(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
So my GTW finally returns, DHL managed to lose it and after eight frustrating days managed to find it in Belgium before getting it back to my Dealer in Holland for repair. I do not know what was wrong exactly but a new decoder was ordered for it, presumingly an ESU LokSound V4.0 M4 as I received a set of instructions for this particular controller.
I think in the meantime the Dealer must have felt somewhat sorry me because in the meantime a small package arrived from Holland containing various Hag badges and stickers, a nice touch that he did not have to do Smile .

I have been able to put it onto the track this morning to try it out, the first thing that struck me was that the MFX was automatically detected so it was ready to go in seconds. To begin with I just shuffled it up and down to check basic movement and all was well so I switched on the various light functions and tried it again and still all went well.
I had now reached the stage where it all went wrong first time round. I activated the sound and waited a few seconds, all seemed well so I moved it up and down and the sound remained stable with none of the buzzing sounds or cut outs like before.
Happy that it was working ok I tried out the various different sounds available including to my english ears anyway, the rather seductive tones of the female announcer.

I keep walking away from it and then coming back and switching everything on and off again so all seems to be well at last, as I watch and listen to it I get the feeling that it would be very hard to manufacture something better than this and despite the rocky start I am really pleased that I got it.

I have recently picked up a 703 ic2000 Steuerwagen, this is the DC version and I would like to convert it to AC. I have the necessary AC wheelsets but what other parts do I need? presumingly a centre skate but is there anything else?
Regards to all, Rob
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Offline Unholz  
#464 Posted : 13 June 2015 17:54:50(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post

I have recently picked up a 703 ic2000 Steuerwagen, this is the DC version and I would like to convert it to AC. I have the necessary AC wheelsets but what other parts do I need? presumingly a centre skate but is there anything else?


Mmmhhh... - I should probably better leave this answer to our "techies", but it probably depends on how old your 703 is. The first deliveries of these models featured a mechanical "drag switch" for the change from head to tail lights on the driver cabin end. The newest light gimmick deliveries from "New HAG" should be equipped with a decoder for the entire illumination. Whether all this affects the conversion job surpasses my knowledge. Wink

I would try to exchange the DC wheelsets for AC types, add/replace a centre slider, connect whatever lighting is inside to this slider and then watch what happens. Wink This shouldn't cause an explosion or any other hazardous results - but don't hold me responsible. Flapper
Offline taliesin  
#465 Posted : 13 June 2015 18:21:37(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post

I have recently picked up a 703 ic2000 Steuerwagen, this is the DC version and I would like to convert it to AC. I have the necessary AC wheelsets but what other parts do I need? presumingly a centre skate but is there anything else?


Mmmhhh... - I should probably better leave this answer to our "techies", but it probably depends on how old your 703 is. The first deliveries of these models featured a mechanical "drag switch" for the change from head to tail lights on the driver cabin end. The newest light gimmick deliveries from "New HAG" should be equipped with a decoder for the entire illumination. Whether all this affects the conversion job surpasses my knowledge. Wink

I would try to exchange the DC wheelsets for AC types, add/replace a centre slider, connect whatever lighting is inside to this slider and then watch what happens. Wink This shouldn't cause an explosion or any other hazardous results - but don't hold me responsible. Flapper


Sounds good to me, mine is definitely an old one so it appears that I need a 540 centre skate then, not sure of the new number for this. As my set up is digital will the lights power up ok or do I need to go for a decoder as well? cheers Rob
Offline Unholz  
#466 Posted : 13 June 2015 19:22:31(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
(...) so it appears that I need a 540 centre skate then, not sure of the new number for this. As my set up is digital will the lights power up ok or do I need to go for a decoder as well?


Not 540 but 551 in my opinion.

And if I'm not completely mistaken, the bulbs in this car should be "digital safe", and you most probably won't need a decoder - but taking digital advice from me is probably not the best thing you can do... Scared
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Offline taliesin  
#467 Posted : 13 June 2015 19:39:32(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Thanks Stefan, I will try for a 551 then, the instructions do refer to a 540 though, and 550 for a lighting kit, cheers Rob
Offline Unholz  
#468 Posted : 13 June 2015 21:20:34(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Stefan, I will try for a 551 then, the instructions do refer to a 540 though, and 550 for a lighting kit, cheers Rob


Rob, you might be right - there is certainly some confusion regarding these numbers. In an older parts list I have additionally found the number 702070-75 which is associated to the designation "drag switch slider". This particular part is more expensive than any of the other sliders and thus might contain the entire switching mechanism I referred to above.

Sorry for the confusion, but it's unfortunately not totally untypical for this manufacturer... Unsure
Offline taliesin  
#469 Posted : 13 June 2015 22:53:14(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
It does make some sense Stefan, I am guessing that the DC version would not need a drag switch slider due to the polarity change via the controller. Christian at EYRO did send me a list of spare parts but my lack of German is a real handicap here.
I will have to sit down and put a list together, from that maybe Christian will be able to work out the exact parts that I require.
Unfortunately the last two Hag Dealers here in the UK were never interested in selling AC products and no longer deal with the factory anyway so there is no help here.
It might well be good sense to put together an order that includes spare brushes and other consumable parts so I am set up in the future regardless of what happens at the factory.
Regards Rob
Offline river6109  
#470 Posted : 15 June 2015 03:41:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Rob,
another option is always electrical couplings which will eliminate a slider and also a second decoder, as the ESU decoder are strong enough to take Led''s. although having a drivers cab it may be better to install an function decoder in the driver cab carriage to avoid having numerous cables going there for the change over of lights and interior lights, this would also reduce the type of electrical coupling you need (pins) and I would recommend just a 2 pin coupling but also a single contact coupling would do the job (red wire for decoder and brown wire from wheels).


John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Unholz  
#471 Posted : 20 June 2015 16:58:27(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Imagine through how many hands such a body shell goes from the casting to the final delivery... - and nobody seems to notice or care. ThumbDown OhMyGod (it's not sloppy painting but a defective mold):

Current HAG Ae 6/6
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Offline river6109  
#472 Posted : 20 June 2015 17:08:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Stefan, it goes like this, the mold is prepared, the next person looks at it, the next person has another look, the next person noticed it, gives it to the next person, this person thinks this is how it should be and the next person thinks if it has gone through all the other channels it has to be right, the final inspection its not about the mold its about the looks, it drives, everything works, just perfect and in the box ready for delivery.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline taliesin  
#473 Posted : 06 September 2015 21:41:03(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
New facebook group set up, Hag Trains HO, anyone want to join and make it work? Cheers Rob
Offline H0  
#474 Posted : 06 September 2015 23:02:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Is it a hidden or private group? I can't find it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline taliesin  
#475 Posted : 06 September 2015 23:06:53(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
It's a closed group but you should be able to find it, cheers Rob
Offline H0  
#476 Posted : 06 September 2015 23:17:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
I'm too stupid to find it, so I wait till someone posts a link.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#477 Posted : 07 September 2015 10:07:29(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
From www.20min.ch:

http://www.20min.ch/schw...en---Weltrekord-21101308

YouTube direct:


Pretty cool stuff!

Lucky they didn't use the original batch of IC-2000 coaches. Can you imagine how many window pieces they would have had to find and pick up?

Regards

Mike C
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Offline taliesin  
#478 Posted : 07 September 2015 11:31:23(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I'm too stupid to find it, so I wait till someone posts a link.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Hagtrainsho/

yer tis Tom, cheers Rob
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Offline taliesin  
#479 Posted : 07 September 2015 11:39:31(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
From www.20min.ch:

http://www.20min.ch/schw...en---Weltrekord-21101308

YouTube direct:


Pretty cool stuff!

Lucky they didn't use the original batch of IC-2000 coaches. Can you imagine how many window pieces they would have had to find and pick up?

Regards

Mike C


Not to mention the cost of lighting kits
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Offline river6109  
#480 Posted : 07 September 2015 14:22:45(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
not bad
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Unholz  
#481 Posted : 30 October 2015 14:28:55(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
HAG quality in the year 2015.

Sorry, but I can't find the right words to describe my feelings when I see such crappy workmanship: Crying ThumbDown OhMyGod
https://www.icloud.com/s...m/de-de/#B04Gf693ZGQClRr

EDIT: Meanwhile, a strange phenomenon has caused the pictures to "vanish". Too bad that they were saved from destruction... Flapper

Edited by user 30 October 2015 17:52:37(UTC)  | Reason: Disappearance of mentioned link

Offline jcrtrains  
#482 Posted : 30 October 2015 14:58:26(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Disappointing to say the least.

I gambled and bought the Ae 6/6 Thun. It's actually pretty good but clearly it is a gamble.

Offline taliesin  
#483 Posted : 30 October 2015 21:33:22(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Wow, that sure is bad, the quality controller should have gone to specs savers Crying
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Offline chrisisrang  
#484 Posted : 02 November 2015 05:08:16(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
I am amazed how some people seem to always end up with defective locomotives. If HAG is producing such shoddy quality locomotives then their dealers in Switzerland shouldn't stop stocking the products? Isn't that common business sense?

Has anyone else on the forum had the opportunity to buy such "poor quality" HAG models?
Offline chrisisrang  
#485 Posted : 02 November 2015 05:10:39(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Disappointing to say the least.

I gambled and bought the Ae 6/6 Thun. It's actually pretty good but clearly it is a gamble.



Hi! Did you have any quality issues with your Ae 6/6?

Cheers

Chris
Offline Unholz  
#486 Posted : 02 November 2015 05:58:00(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: chrisisrang Go to Quoted Post
If HAG is producing such shoddy quality locomotives then their dealers in Switzerland shouldn't stop stocking the products? Isn't that common business sense?


That's more or less exactly what our dealers are beginning to do: sending back all the mispainted and misprinted stuff to the factory before it ever reaches us customers. Evidently, this is the only way the manufacturer will learn his lesson.

BTW, the standard forum font and color seems to be perfectly adequate for normal posting, no need for "shouting". Wink
Offline river6109  
#487 Posted : 02 November 2015 06:52:00(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
to be honest I wouldn't like to buy any Märklin or HAG locos, a.) the price, b.) not working properly, c.)a real chance having to send it back, d.) paying a fortune for all the postage, bought a Jägerndorfer ÖBB loco and I'm not impressed, bought it much cheaper than the recommended retail price, the quality just isn't there, to take the loco apart its a nightmare, pantograph is not connected but this is not the only manufacturer who has no electrical link with the catenary.
In some of the locos I've bought I just can't see the value in it (recommended retail price)

I have now purchased my 3rd HAG loco and the latest one for Euro 40.00 (SBB Express 11103 = 2nd one), the pictures looked alright but apparently there is something wrong with the motor and if there is I'm going to buy a complete motor with ball bearing for A$ 76.00 odd dollars + delivery and this I do via another dealer in Germany.

all I need now is another BLS Re 4/4 and a BLS driver cab carriage,

what I would like to ask is there any improvement between the older type DC analogue and newer version digital motor driving characteristics ?

regards.,


John




https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline taliesin  
#488 Posted : 02 November 2015 13:00:19(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: chrisisrang Go to Quoted Post
I am amazed how some people seem to always end up with defective locomotives. If HAG is producing such shoddy quality locomotives then their dealers in Switzerland shouldn't stop stocking the products? Isn't that common business sense?

Has anyone else on the forum had the opportunity to buy such "poor quality" HAG models?


I don't have the opportunity to find out here in the UK, there were two Dealer's here but neither want to know now which kind of tells it's own story, cheers to all, Rob
Offline jcrtrains  
#489 Posted : 03 November 2015 02:38:28(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by: chrisisrang Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Disappointing to say the least.

I gambled and bought the Ae 6/6 Thun. It's actually pretty good but clearly it is a gamble.



Hi! Did you have any quality issues with your Ae 6/6?

Cheers

Chris


There is a very very slight paint blemish but you need to look very closely to see it. Otherwise it is good. I have a Lion and a 465 Eyro special edition from this new era and there are both ok.
Offline river6109  
#490 Posted : 12 November 2015 15:52:01(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
does anybody know could you get a photo of the newly installed ( or not so new) air conditioning vents on the Re 6/6 and Re 4/4's (behind the driver), what I was thinking of instead of buying another loco with the alteration, one could take a photo of it, reduce it to 1:87 and than stick it on your loco with a self adhesive printed colour label , like the SBB Express loco or a green coloured one.
by the way, I have received my HAG loco from Austria and it was in a very good condition, my brother was so kind and paid for it. (bankcharges would have been more for what I paid for the loco. it will receive a sound decoder, led lights front and rear (with Swiss light changes (3 front ,one rear and it also can have 1 or 2 markerlights, and this is about it, it is DC so there wasn't a problem converting it as the powr will come from the Overhead system, it will have a slider but this will only have the purpose of activating reflective coupler.

it will have a 28mm round speaker and I drilled a hole into the front bogy holding pin, moved an item to attach the 21 pin Adapter plate with frame connection.

It will be my second SBB Express loco but it has the same running number: 11103, I don't think I will have sleepless nights over it,

Unfortunately the electronic board didn't work when I've installed it into the loco and it was fine before, so another 6 hours to prepare another one, I'll try a different soldering iron and see if this makes any difference and at the same time re-configure the whole design: resistors and socket.

John

SBB Re 4_4 Umbau0000.JPG

SBB Re 4_4 Umbau0001.JPG

SBB Re 4_4 Umbau led's0001.JPG

SBB Re 4_4 Umbau0002.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#491 Posted : 15 November 2015 16:29:27(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, both locos have now been converted and I had to do the led lights again and this time I was successful , one with Lopi V4 the other a sound decoder.

tomorrow I'll try them out and see what load they can pull, just lifting 1 loco up its pretty heavy.



SBB 11103 111080000.JPG

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline GLI  
#492 Posted : 16 November 2015 02:10:46(UTC)
GLI


Joined: 28/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: Lithgow NSW Australia
Hi John

what I would like to ask is there any improvement between the older type DC analogue and newer version digital motor driving characteristics ?

The answer to your query is, "Generally, yes."

I have number of Hag locos with the older motor, and 2 Re 6/6's and an Ae 4/7 with the newer type 88 motor. The newer motor was introduced by Hag in 1988. I understand that the reason for its introduction was that the older motor was too large for correct 1/87 scale models. Older Hag models such as the SBB Re 4/4'' and the BLS Re 4/4 are over scale, particularly in height and width. Hy reducing the thickness of the castings, the Had models of the Re 4/4', the Ae4/4 and the Ae 8/8 are closer to scale.

Whereas the older motor had a flat commutator like the Marklin LFC and SFC motors, the type 88 had a drum commutator like the Marklin DCM, but the constructions is far superior, and there are no brush alignment problems as with the DCM. The brushes are also quite long. I have an Re 6/6 which I acquired new in 1988. It has quite a bit of use over the years, and still has its original brushes which still do not need replacing. Its overall dimensions are smaller than the older motor, enabling Hag to produce correct scale model of the Re 6/6.

Its running qualities are generally better than the older motor. It is smoother and quieter, and has a lower minimum speed. However, there are some examples of the motor that are a little noisier than others. I have one in a second Re 6/6 that I acquired secondhand some years age. It runs smootly, but there is noticeable gear noise. My Ae 4/7 also has the newer type 88 motor, but I only acquired this loco new a short time ago and it waiting for me to fit a decoder. I have tested the motor with 2 wires from a transformer and it appears to run quietly and smoothly but I won't know until a decoder is installed and it has had a run on the layout.

On the other hand, some of the older motors can be exceptionally quiet. I have a BLS Re 4/4 which I acquired new in 1972 for the sum of $34. It is the quietest of the Hag locos I own with the older motor. It was converted to DCC with an ESU Lokpilot v 3.0 decoder some years ago and is one of my favourite locos despite its age. It is quieter than my noisy Re 6/6.

I am sure you will be impressed by the haulage powers of your 2 Swiss Express locos. Back in the 1970's, I tested one of my Hag Re 4/4's haulage power against my Marklin 3047, and was surpriised when the Hag won.

Geoff
Offline river6109  
#493 Posted : 16 November 2015 11:41:00(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Geoff, thanks for the history and your interest in HAG locos, to be quite honest I couldn't afford a new HAG loco and I was lucky with all 3 of them with a total cost of A$ 380.00, all of them I bought are DC so I didn't have to buy a perm. magnet. 2 will have a sound decoder and the other just a LOPI. driving characteristics are good and there is some noise but no louder or as loud as a Märklin loco from that era.
I can't get over the weight and everything you look at is made well. yes I am looking forward to haul heavy trains and I have a wide variety of options, AE 6/6 (4), Re 6/6 (4). Re 4/4 (4 = 1 BLS, SBB Express and 1 SBB) Ae 4/4 (1), Ae 8/8 (BLS), Re 465 (2) (BLS = Märklin - Roco), Re 460 SBB, (1), 3 x SBB Ae 6/8, 1 x Märklin, 2 Roco, 3 Re 4/4/IV = Märklin, 1 Ae 8/14 = Roco, 2 BLS Ae 6/8 = Roco, 1 Be 4/6 = Roco, 1 Ae 4/6 SBB, 1 SBB C 5/6, 3 x Ae 3/6 = Märklin, 2 Red Arrows,

I have found out many times, Märklin locos are not always the best locos for heavy loads, Märklin versus Roco Ae 8/14, Märklin versus Roco Ae 6/8,


regards.,


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Unholz  
#494 Posted : 17 November 2015 19:22:34(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
According to a statement made today by one of HAG's semi-official spokesmen in the German speaking HAG forum, the Starbucks IC double-deck coach will not be produced because there are not enough orders.

Since the HAG company owner wrote exactly the opposite in his own little "manufacturer forum" on March 26, 2015 and announced a production batch for the last quarter of 2015, it remains to be seen who has the correct facts... Wink

Regards, Stefan
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Offline Unholz  
#495 Posted : 07 December 2015 10:57:21(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
A crazy auction result: A unit of the HAG model shown in the picture below was sold for no less than 5,516 Swiss Francs (approx. 5,089 Euros) in a Swiss online auction (www.ricardo.ch) last Saturday! 50 of these had been produced for the last Christmas sale at the factory shop in Mörschwil in December, 2011.

Prices for rare models that were made by the old HAG company generally seem to be rising - probably due to the fact that the traditional quality standards are no longer achieved by the current successors... Crying

data.jpg

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Offline Unholz  
#496 Posted : 13 December 2015 17:19:30(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
A first glance at the list of exhibitors at the Nuremberg Trade Fair 2016 shows the absence of a certain company...OhMyGod Nothing new or worthy of showing, I assume. ThumbDown
Offline jvuye  
#497 Posted : 13 December 2015 17:57:03(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
A crazy auction result: A unit of the HAG model shown in the picture below was sold for no less than 5,516 Swiss Francs (approx. 5,089 Euros) in a Swiss online auction (www.ricardo.ch) last Saturday! 50 of these had been produced for the last Christmas sale at the factory shop in Mörschwil in December, 2011.

Prices for rare models that were made by the old HAG company generally seem to be rising - probably due to the fact that the traditional quality standards are no longer achieved by the current successors... Crying

data.jpg


Mmmh.
There's one just like that in the display behind me.
Time to put it in a safe???😊
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Robert Davies  
#498 Posted : 13 December 2015 20:34:19(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
This is a HAG question although it is not related to any previous discussion, so if the Mod's want to move it to a new topic, please feel free.

I have my eye on a HAG Ae4/7 13 002-31 on Ebay to complete my stud of Swiss locos. Here is the link if you want to have a look -
http://www.ebay.de/itm/28176472...trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

It is in excellent condition and has scarcely been run (see the slider) but my view is that its current price (Euro 494.99) is a bit on the high side. (It started at Euro 550 but the seller has already reduced it once.)

It would be my first HAG loco so I want to ask the HAG experts here a number of questions:
1. Is this model up to the usual HAG quality? There is a suggestion that quality is dropping at the moment but this model dates from about 2002
2. Does this model have a good or bad reputation for reliability?
3. Is Euro 494.99 (ChF535, $545, £360) a reasonable price for this loco in this condition? I have been unable to establish what it would have cost when new, but such research that I have been able to do suggests that ChF475 / Euro 440 would be nearer the mark but locos of this type and quality do not come on the market very often.

The item has 11 watchers but it had them at the previous price as well, which suggests that they too think that Euro 494.99 is high.

Any advice will be gratefully received as always.

Edited by user 20 December 2015 11:04:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline jcrtrains  
#499 Posted : 14 December 2015 01:57:29(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Robert;

This was from the original factory and there should not be any quality issues at all. This was a complete retooling of the original Hag Ae 4/7. If you see one with the old box, it is the original first generation. The one you are pointing to is the retooled new generation.

I have two of these; numbers 10905 and 11007.

The price is not outstanding but not the highest. In the store, the digital listed for 780 CHF. Roundhouse still shows the price and actually has one available. I lucked out on mine for price but I recall they were both on ebay.com which nobody seems to look at for Hag.

There is another one on ebay that looks like it started at 1

Ae 4/7

There are a couple on Ricardo.ch but at higher prices
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Offline Unholz  
#500 Posted : 14 December 2015 06:03:29(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Robert Davies Go to Quoted Post

3. Is Euro 494.99 (ChF535, $545, £360) a reasonable price for this loco in this condition? I have been unable to establish what it would have cost when new (...)


The original manufacturer's recommended price was 680 CHF according to the HAG-UNUM database.

780 CHF as apparently stated by the Swiss dealer Roundhouse is far too high.

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