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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 25 October 2015 04:20:54(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hello, Everyone:

As some of you may know, I recently acquired a Roco digital set that has two trains, one Ice Train and another complete train with wagons as well as a Multimaus. The set is very nice and I recommend it to everyone who must have a digital layout and is willing to pay for the extra cost of doing so.

That is where I am now having some self-doubts.

I am no longer so sure that the extra cost of a decoder is worth it. If the decoder is without sound, then you are easily looking at $100.00 or more for the decoder AND the installation AND the taxes. An analogue loco would not run any differently from a digital loco without sound and the latter would cost more.

If I then add a sound decoder, then the extra cost can easily double the cost of a regular analogue loco, from about $200.00 to $400.00 plus taxes.

Is the sound worth it? Maybe, maybe not.

An electric loco, really, only gives out, normally, a nice whistle or warning sound, but little else. A steam loco gives nicer sound effects. Once you have one of each type, do you really need more?

Marklin is another story.

All the Marklin locos are digital, so you do not save any money by staying analogue, that is very important. As indicated above, in 2 rail, there is normally an analogue DC version and an identical loco with a DCC version at a higher price.

Moral of the story, if I learn to keep analogue locos parked on the layout (see my separate request for help today on this forum on point), I think I will continue with an analogue DC layout and a digital Marklin layout.

What do you think? Am I missing something important?

(I don't really need to run two Roco locos at the same time on the same track, since I can do that on the Marklin track next to it. It would be too hard to supervise two sets of locos at the same time, four locos, to make sure there is no mishap.)

Thank you for your views and insight on point.

BigGrin ThumpUp
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 25 October 2015 04:48:31(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
There is ready made sound locomotives for the 2 rail system too.
It depends which brand you choose.
I did had Trix sound locomotive and in Denmark the shop dealer says,it`s very hard to sell them.
It´s more easier to sell Märklin and if the locomotive was the same as the Trix,customer buys Märklin instead.
Today i did decides to start Märklin K tracks again.
My dealer did said,you did choose good start again with the Märklin brands.
So to use digital with the two rail are good too like three rail track system.
There are drawbacks with the two rail and it´s the dirty on the rail,which makes worse contact.
Of course you do have same problem with the Märklin tracks too,but you just need to clean them up.
Is it worth to use digital for the two rail?
Yes but you do have problems too.
Can i equal with the three rail digital?
Yes!
There are both pros and cons.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 25 October 2015 09:27:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I am no longer so sure that the extra cost of a decoder is worth it. If the decoder is without sound, then you are easily looking at $100.00 or more for the decoder AND the installation AND the taxes.
A decent decoder is EUR 25 incl. VAT, that's about CAD 31 without VAT. Add postage and taxes, but do the installation yourself. Can any fellow club member show you how to do it?

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
An analogue loco would not run any differently from a digital loco without sound and the latter would cost more.
I like the benefits of load regulation and improved slow-speed running. I've learned in the past that you have different priorities with respect to loco speed, so decoder benefits may be less important for you.
I like to have lights on while the loco stands. I like the ability to configure lights (e.g. turning red rear lights on or off as needed).

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
As indicated above, in 2 rail, there is normally an analogue DC version and an identical loco with a DCC version at a higher price.
Trix is Märklin, Trix is on the road to "all digital".

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
An electric loco, really, only gives out, normally, a nice whistle or warning sound, but little else.
Recently we had a thread about Taurus sounds with links to prototype videos. ICE 3 and BR 141 are other interesting examples (the market leader sold some BR 141 locos with BR 110 sound, so not everything that is advertised as firecracker sound is really the sound of a firecracker loco).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 25 October 2015 10:05:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Silvano,

The question about whether to go digital or not is a very personal one and can depend on many factors. I could have saved myself a lot of money by keeping to an analogue Marklin layout, but I decided to go digital for various reasons.

For me sound is only an incidental advantage. If the loco has sound I will sometimes run it with sound, but mostly I run them silent and only "toot" the whistle or horn occasionally.

For me the main advantages are twofold. The increased realism of slow speed running and the possibility of running two or more trains at the same time with each one in control.

There are other things you can do with digital, such as complicated automatic running with trains and routes under computer control, but this is not something I need to take advantage of on my small sized layout.

I think the pros and cons are no different for two rail and three rail systems. Sound, improved motor control, multiple running, automation etc, all apply equally to both. As to cost, I think DCC decoders are mostly cheaper than Motorola or DCC ones, and it is much harder to convert most AC locos than their DC counterparts, many of which come factory fitted with a socket for a decoder.

You say that Marklin trains all bring a decoder, but this is only true of newer models, and if you buy a Marklin loco from before 2000 it is just as likely to be fitted with an analogue reversing unit. New locos in DC almost always bring a socket for a decoder, so conversion is very easy. I can't imagine why a dealer would charge as much as $100 for opening a loco and plugging in a decoder!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline sjlauritsen  
#5 Posted : 25 October 2015 10:58:25(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
When starting from scratch - today - I simply see no reason to run analogue - at all. Yes, you pay something extra for the decoder on 2-rail. Try comparing loco prices, the majority of 3-rail locos with decoders cost a bit more, because the decoder is built-in. You will of course be able to find exceptions, but for the most part this is true.

Also: Most locomotives comes prepared for a decoder (8-pin plug, PluX, MTC and so on), installing it is simple and easy. This video shows then process from start to finish (45 seconds):
- I do not hope you pay a lot for the dealer to do this for you. I would expect a dealer to do this for free - unless the loco is without a plug and complex soldering is involved.

At the end of the day, it is a matter of taste, IMO the benefits of running digital by far outweighs any arguments not to. Being able to run two locomotives completely seperate from each other on the same track, without having to spent hours on wiring the layout means a lot to me. Like Tom, I appreciate that the headlights stay on when the locomotive stops. Small things like that.

With regards to sounds, I like locomotives with sounds, but not at any price. I would much rather have a great looking model with a good decoder with great motor control (I prefer ESU LokPilot), than I would a locomotive with an inferior sound and a higher cost.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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