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Offline Timnomads  
#1 Posted : 16 September 2015 14:38:58(UTC)
Timnomads

Switzerland   
Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
Hi
I have just got into marklin and have designed a double loop layout with a station and shunting yard, in all its about 1.2 m by 5 m in size. I am now at the point of ordering the extra track having started with a starter pack with a CS2. The question is will I need a booster, how does it work, does it need to be connected to the track.
Tim
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 16 September 2015 15:04:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Tim,

Welcome to the forum.

The need for a booster depends on the power consumption, not on the length of the tracks.

With five trains running at the same time there should be no need for a booster (unless there are many trains that still use light bulbs for coach lighting).

The CS2 has an internal booster. With an external 60174, you have to split the layout into booster sections with centre rail insulation between those sections.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#3 Posted : 17 September 2015 04:26:35(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Yes welcome to the forum Tim.

You should have a booster to stop derailments and short circuits frying the brains of your CS2 !Scared

The Boosters are much more resilient and cheaper to replace, and a failed one (almost unheard of) still allows some running under CS2 only ! Wink (at your peril)

A failed CS2 = $$$$$$$$$$ & Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing

Same applies to all Brands of Digital Central Stations, Touch Screen Controllers et al, all should be isolated from Track power by a Booster.

You don't have to split your layout into power sections, if it is not that big, just never have it supplying Track power, but use it's track power output to power your accessory decoders (points, signals etc) directly Wink

This also allows you to reset points and signals whilst track power is interrupted and fix what probably caused the derailment in the first place. ThumpUp

You can use your existing SMPS to power the Booster and have a smaller less costly one to power the CS2, if you prefer, depending on how many Point (turnout) decoders and signals you envisage having, but don't sweat on that, go for two Marklin Switched Mode Power Supplies as came with your set, Ie buy one more (M60061?) and a 60174 booster, assuming your Starter Set is a current, one with a Switched Mode Power Supply.


Once again; very good personal advice from a former West Coast USA Marklin service agent, the late, Woolfgram Lietenberger (Jacques Vuye's successor)

And advice I will apply to my smallish layout where I plan one booster for the main part, one for the BTW (replenishment facilities and 12 Bay Roundhouse), and one for the lower "hidden station"

Now this is my opinion only, and qualified as above. What you choose to do is your business but do a search for CS2 problems in this forum, and you'll be Scared well advised to consider my suggestion Smile
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Timnomads  
#4 Posted : 17 September 2015 12:03:26(UTC)
Timnomads

Switzerland   
Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Yes welcome to the forum Tim.

You should have a booster to stop derailments and short circuits frying the brains of your CS2 !Scared

The Boosters are much more resilient and cheaper to replace, and a failed one (almost unheard of) still allows some running under CS2 only ! Wink (at your peril)

A failed CS2 = $$$$$$$$$$ & Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing

Same applies to all Brands of Digital Central Stations, Touch Screen Controllers et al, all should be isolated from Track power by a Booster.

You don't have to split your layout into power sections, if it is not that big, just never have it supplying Track power, but use it's track power output to power your accessory decoders (points, signals etc) directly Wink

This also allows you to reset points and signals whilst track power is interrupted and fix what probably caused the derailment in the first place. ThumpUp

You can use your existing SMPS to power the Booster and have a smaller less costly one to power the CS2, if you prefer, depending on how many Point (turnout) decoders and signals you envisage having, but don't sweat on that, go for two Marklin Switched Mode Power Supplies as came with your set, Ie buy one more (M60061?) and a 60174 booster, assuming your Starter Set is a current, one with a Switched Mode Power Supply.


Once again; very good personal advice from a former West Coast USA Marklin service agent, the late, Woolfgram Lietenberger (Jacques Vuye's successor)

And advice I will apply to my smallish layout where I plan one booster for the main part, one for the BTW (replenishment facilities and 12 Bay Roundhouse), and one for the lower "hidden station"

Now this is my opinion only, and qualified as above. What you choose to do is your business but do a search for CS2 problems in this forum, and you'll be Scared well advised to consider my suggestion Smile


Thank for your reply, I am suprised that the CS2 does not have some kind of protection since the booster is cheaper and by what you say better protected against such easily forseeable disasters.

Offline Timnomads  
#5 Posted : 17 September 2015 12:13:30(UTC)
Timnomads

Switzerland   
Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Tim,

Welcome to the forum.

The need for a booster depends on the power consumption, not on the length of the tracks.

With five trains running at the same time there should be no need for a booster (unless there are many trains that still use light bulbs for coach lighting).

The CS2 has an internal booster. With an external 60174, you have to split the layout into booster sections with centre rail insulation between those sections.


Thanks for your reply, since I plan on a maximum of 3 locos running at any one time, I will probably leave buying the booster until someone says what can I buy you for your birthday.
Tim

Offline NZMarklinist  
#6 Posted : 17 September 2015 12:20:53(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Timnomads Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Yes welcome to the forum Tim.

You should have a booster to stop derailments and short circuits frying the brains of your CS2 !Scared

The Boosters are much more resilient and cheaper to replace, and a failed one (almost unheard of) still allows some running under CS2 only ! Wink (at your peril)

A failed CS2 = $$$$$$$$$$ & Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing

Same applies to all Brands of Digital Central Stations, Touch Screen Controllers et al, all should be isolated from Track power by a Booster.

You don't have to split your layout into power sections, if it is not that big, just never have it supplying Track power, but use it's track power output to power your accessory decoders (points, signals etc) directly Wink

This also allows you to reset points and signals whilst track power is interrupted and fix what probably caused the derailment in the first place. ThumpUp

You can use your existing SMPS to power the Booster and have a smaller less costly one to power the CS2, if you prefer, depending on how many Point (turnout) decoders and signals you envisage having, but don't sweat on that, go for two Marklin Switched Mode Power Supplies as came with your set, Ie buy one more (M60061?) and a 60174 booster, assuming your Starter Set is a current, one with a Switched Mode Power Supply.


Once again; very good personal advice from a former West Coast USA Marklin service agent, the late, Woolfgram Lietenberger (Jacques Vuye's successor)

And advice I will apply to my smallish layout where I plan one booster for the main part, one for the BTW (replenishment facilities and 12 Bay Roundhouse), and one for the lower "hidden station"

Now this is my opinion only, and qualified as above. What you choose to do is your business but do a search for CS2 problems in this forum, and you'll be Scared well advised to consider my suggestion Smile


Thank for your reply, I am suprised that the CS2 does not have some kind of protection since the booster is cheaper and by what you say better protected against such easily forseeable disasters.



Hi Tim

The CS2 does have overload and short circuit protection on both the Track output and the Programming track output, the same as the Boosters, but you have to remember it is a, Computer and is doing things digitally, a sudden short circuit is not a digital thing and in certain not so rare circumstances can affect the soft and or firmware.
Do as I suggest, but again from the wise council of the late Mr Lietenberger, a keen Marklinist, who had quite a layout, and you will have happy MRR experiences ThumpUp

As I said, search the forum for CS2 problems and you'll see what can go wrong Scared And again this is not an exclusive problem to the CS2, it applies to the Ecos, and all the other Digital touch screen type MRR Controllers, who ideally should all be isolated from Track power, it's just the nature of the beast ! And my suggestion is totally optional Wink

How many Computers have you heard about being affected/toasted/ruined by power surges ! ???

You did ask the question about needing a booster ! ?
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 17 September 2015 13:21:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
While Glen gives really good advice, it obviously is quite expensive to do what he recommends. If you are very careful with your CS2, you can use it to power your tracks, but just make sure you use feeder wires every 2 metres or so, and wire of a decent size gauge.

Always unplug it from the track if you are ever going to do wiring work or make alterations to your layout. Make sure you keep your track clean and don't leave stuff lying around that could create a short on your rails.

I would certainly get a booster and power supply and power the layout separately from the CS2 (I have done this with my layout) when funds permit.

As to when you would need more than one booster, well as others have said that will depend on how many trains you run and what additional lights / smoke units, etc they may have. The CS2 does have a screen that shows a meter that measures how much current you are drawing on the layout. When that is getting over 80% to 90%, then it might be time to start thinking about another booster.

Welcome to the forum!
Offline stevend  
#8 Posted : 18 September 2015 04:30:10(UTC)
stevend


Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Christchurch,
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
While Glen gives really good advice, it obviously is quite expensive to do what he recommends. If you are very careful with your CS2, you can use it to power your tracks, but just make sure you use feeder wires every 2 metres or so, and wire of a decent size gauge.


I also, do not to see the need to have a separate booster. It is overly protective. I've seen very few CS where the internal booster has failed due to accidents and these were repairable. The fix really does require a person who has the correct tools and skills. The ability to damage the PCB is VERY high.

There is a common thread to how each CS was broken....very, very,very early in the morning ; ) and putting AC where it don't belong.

: )
D

Edited by moderator 18 September 2015 12:46:59(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed 'quote' tags

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by stevend
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 08 October 2015 20:11:12(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,078
Location: Paris, France
Hi,

I am using since October 2011 a 60101 5 ampere switching power supply ) with my CS2 in 5A mode to power my entire layout.
I had many shorts during those years and my observations are:

- The current limit protection is very effective (no soldering effect on wheels, no damage to relays, no failure to CS2 output).
- because of my large number of locomotives (32 locomotives simultaneously of which 25 MFX ones), I experienced in the past difficulties with MFX registration: I was obliged to have the non registering ones on the programming track. I found also that Ethernet connection with a computer (I am using RocRail) may disturb the registering process.
- since version 4.1, the registration process is so effective that ALL locos register automatically by themselves.

So sorry for the long text but my conclusions are:
- CS2 works perfectly well in 5A mode in HO provided you have excellent feeder line (I have 2.5 mm2 line all around my lay-out) --> don't need to buy a booster (Cheaper and no burden of track feeding separation).
- current protection works exceptionally well on CS2 in 5 Amps mode.
- 60213 had a design flaw (mine burned and was replaced with a 60215 motherboard. 60215 CS2 are much better (when with 5A and galvanic protection capability).

Here is a view of my layout Video as it was one year ago. Since them many more locomotives and trains still with one CS2. This is to give an idea of how many locos can be used at the same time. They are all powered permanently (no conventional signalling with stop tracks).
Cheers

Jean
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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