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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2015 16:13:12(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Hello everybody.
I am thinking of buying my second Marklin loco and the candidate is Marklin 37116.
If someone already has this steamer, could you please tell me your impressions? Is it a good loco to acquire? What about the motor? (I am a little confused with all those different types). Is it a smooth and quite runner?
Thank you in advance.
Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Offline NZMarklinist  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2015 17:09:26(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
Hello everybody.
I am thinking of buying my second Marklin loco and the candidate is Marklin 37116.
If someone already has this steamer, could you please tell me your impressions? Is it a good loco to acquire? What about the motor? (I am a little confused with all those different types). Is it a smooth and quite runner?
Thank you in advance.
Paris


Hi Paris,

If you are looking for the "prettiest" version of a Klass 18 Marklin Lok, then the Wurtemberg C, (Beautiful Lady of Wurtemberg) is the right choice, and 37116 is it for an Era II version.
See the description copied from the M database;

37116 Express Locomotive with a Tender
Prototype: German State Railroad Company (DRG) class 18.1 express locomotive. Former Württemberg class C.
Model: The locomotive has an mfx digital decoder, controlled high-efficiency propulsion, and extensive sound functions. It also has a powerful motor with a bell-shaped armature, in the boiler. 3 axles powered. Traction tires. The headlights are maintenance-free, warm white LEDs; they will work in conventional operation, and can be controlled digitally. The tender is constructed of metal. There is a close coupling between the locomotive and tender. Length over the buffers 23.7 cm / 9-5/16".

The Bell shaped Armature Motor is a very smooth and good quality one, and is scorced from either Maxon (Made in Switzerland) or Faulhaber, (made in Germany) known for small RC modell type motors and also supply, or used to supply, electric motors to the greater the German Automotive manufacturers for things like electric windows and other various servo duties.

The latest offering (37117) has a "controlled high-efficiency propulsion with a flywheel" motor of dubious cost optimised, origin, likely China, and is unlikely to start off with a slow crawl, or come to a smooth stop, or last as long, as the earlier versions powered with a Glocken Ankor, (bell shaped armature) "Faully" or Maxon will.
I have 37113 (era I) and 37115 (era IIIa), I'd quite like a reasonably priced 37116 RollEyes Wink
The one thing the latest version, 37117, has, is the ability to fit a smoke unit, but I'd go for the better performance over the smoker any day ThumpUp
Lots of Marklin fans have modified those earlier versions to fit a smoke unit Sneaky

Good luck Smile

(E&O&OE) Wink

Edited by user 06 October 2015 05:36:47(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2015 19:58:22(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I don't want to start a discussion on this, but perhaps we should wait for the actual locomotive to be tested by someone before judging the motor in it?

There are a lot of good DC motors around nowadays without the expensive price tag of a Maxon or Faulhaber.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline mbarreto  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2015 20:32:36(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,251

37116 is great. It is one of the loks I most like, even among the Cs.



Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#5 Posted : 05 October 2015 22:25:37(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Glen, Ray, Miguel thank you all!!!
Your answers were very helpful indeed. I really appreciate it.
Best Regards
Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline foumaro  
#6 Posted : 06 October 2015 05:05:10(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Good morning,I have the 37115,a similar model so I can tell you that she is great.I believe and the new model will have the same faulhaber motor,one of the better marklin produce.Regards,Panayotis.
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#7 Posted : 06 October 2015 05:39:09(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Good morning,I have the 37115,a similar model so I can tell you that she is great.I believe and the new model will have the same faulhaber motor,one of the better marklin produce.Regards,Panayotis.


Hello Payanotis,

Well I do hope so, even the old analogue versions of the "C" had a "Glocken Anker" Motor, If it does I will buy one instead of looking for a 37116 Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Online H0  
#8 Posted : 06 October 2015 08:40:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Motors with bell-shaped armatures are maintenance-free motors - they have to be replaced when the brushes are worn.

37115 and 37116 have the same sparepart number for the motor - no longer available.
Sparepart list for 37117 is not yet around.

That's the point that worries me most about the dozens different motor types they used in the past few years: limited availability of spare motors.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#9 Posted : 06 October 2015 15:15:30(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Thank you Tom.

Please allow me a beginners question. What's the normal lifetime of such a motor (bell - shaped)?

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Online H0  
#10 Posted : 06 October 2015 15:46:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
I think that varies a lot from model to model, from manufacturer to manufacturer.

There was a time when Lux offered two versions of their vacuum track cleaner.
For the version with the bell-shaped armature motor they specified 2000 operating hours, for the version with the Mabuchi motor they specified 150 operating hours. I didn't find these figures on their site today.

I'm afraid that's about what we can expect from the motors in our model locos: a few thousand hours with coreless motors and a few hundred hours with other maintenance-free motors.

The standard motors from Märklin, Fleischmann, Roco, and HAG where you can replace brushes as needed will last a bit longer, I do hope.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 06 October 2015 15:57:04(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
For me, the reality is that I will be long dead before any of my motors reaches the end of its lifetime! BigGrin

I run each loco for short periods, a couple of times a week, and rotate my 100+ locos regularly, such that each is only used one week in twenty five. This equates to probably about an hour's use every six months, so 100 hours of motor life would last me 50 years. Forgive me if I've totally screwed up my maths!

Of course if you run your locos for eight hours a day, five days a week, then I would recommend you buy a couple of spare motors with the loco. I guess if you have a commercial operation such as a permanent model railway exhibition then this is probably good practice.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline xxup  
#12 Posted : 06 October 2015 21:53:15(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,453
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
For me, the reality is that I will be long dead before any of my motors reaches the end of its lifetime! BigGrin


I wouldn't bank on it.. My 37643 with 10 hours on the motor died at two years old.. Have a look at this thread -> https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t13253-37643--Lights-are-on-but-no-one-is-home Two years after the release of the model the motors were no longer available from Marklin and Maxon could not supply an equivalent motor without milling the chassis of the locomotive. Just last week I checked with my dealer to see if the motors were back in stock - no..

So the only option I have now is to buy another loco (37627) and use it to pull the now motorless loco.. RollEyes

So these motors are solving a manufacturing problem for Marklin, but creating a maintenance nightmare for their customers.
Adrian
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Offline xxup  
#13 Posted : 06 October 2015 22:01:40(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,453
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
...That's the point that worries me most about the dozens different motor types they used in the past few years: limited availability of spare motors.


I agree 100%.. This is less about 3 pole vs 5 pole and more about long term support for the brand. Many of us have 50+ year old locos that we easily converted to digital and can still run on our layouts. I have two recent production locos that don't run any more and can no longer be repaired for lack of spare parts! This "disposable" loco trend must impact on the brand in the long term. Mad
Adrian
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Online H0  
#14 Posted : 06 October 2015 22:22:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
For me, the reality is that I will be long dead before any of my motors reaches the end of its lifetime! BigGrin
When I was a child I had three Märklin locos that I ran a lot - often I ran them at the same time on three ovals.

Back then even I as a child could afford buying new brushes and I also was able to replace them. I also swapped traction tyres and light bulbs.

With children as the new target group for sustained development of the MRR market, there could be disappointments when maintenance is needed.

Children have more spare time then we grown-ups - and they only have one, two, or three locos. And the favourite loco will have to do a lot running.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 06 October 2015 22:25:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A random failure is different from reaching the end of service life, which has more to do with wear of the bearings and brushes. Any mechanical or electrical device can fail due to random factors.

The fact that the old Marklin FCM and DCM motors can be serviced ad-infinitum does not make them better motors. In fact they are pretty awful. They are noisy, rough, inefficient, and take up lots of room. Their only saving grace is that you can still get spares for them.

I think we will see a source of after-market motor suppliers emerging in the future to allow us to re-motor these newer locos. It shouldn't be that hard. After all they are all basically 'can' shaped!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline steventrain  
#16 Posted : 06 October 2015 22:47:56(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,595
Location: United Kingdom
I have the 37115 and came with wooden box. Good smooth running yet!

I have look at spare parts list for 37115 and 37116 - both motors part number are the same.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#17 Posted : 07 October 2015 00:40:11(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,641
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I have the 37115 and came with wooden box. Good smooth running yet!

I have look at spare parts list for 37115 and 37116 - both motors part number are the same.


Excellent detective work, Sherlock.
The 37115 is one of my favorite locos. Along with all the others.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#18 Posted : 07 October 2015 02:51:31(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I have the 37115 and came with wooden box. Good smooth running yet!

I have look at spare parts list for 37115 and 37116 - both motors part number are the same.


Excellent detective work, Sherlock.
The 37115 is one of my favourite locos. Along with all the others.

regards
Kimball



Yes thanks for checking Steven ThumpUp

They maybe available, but are they, the spare parts motors, still a Glocken Ankur, Maxon, Faulhaber or whatever ?
(Sorry I'm not about to open up one of mine to check the original make) not this side of Xmas anyway RollEyes

(or are they just a cost optimised can motor) Sneaky Scared

And yes my 37113 and 37115 are favs of mine too RollEyes Smile

The Beautiful lady of Württemberg is the prettiest 18.X or Pacific Lok, (4.6.2) made anywhere in the Wold IMHO
What's more she could hold her own for overall performance, with the best of them, too Wink ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#19 Posted : 07 October 2015 03:25:46(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
With all this discussion about motor troubles, I hope Paris does not give up on getting himself a new Lok Blink Huh RollEyes

I'd happily buy a 37116 in a heartbeat if I could find one at a reasonable price.

I read Adrians other thread.
I nearly bought one of those Swiss Shunters, because I saw a brand new prototype of it, when I was in Mendrisio Hbf in 2005, visiting Galleria Baumgartner Wink
However as I don't do Swiss, apart from a replica of our "William Tell Express" Train, we road over The Gotthard to get there, and a few Crocs RollEyes oh and a couple of RE460's and Swiss IC Carriage Sets and add-ons. I decided I shouldn't order one. Blushing

Nice to know we can at least talk to Maxon Australia about product support, and they'll do their best to help ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#20 Posted : 07 October 2015 03:48:11(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Just thinking about Adrian's other thread, re his M37643, and the fact that the Maxon Motor had had a melt down, probably caused by too much load on the Loco (I doubt it) or too high a voltage at the track. Scared
And yes I know the decoder controls the voltage to the motor, but we don't know how much full throttle he, or Miss 16 gave it. (when he wasn't looking) OhMyGod
Can I suggest that anybody who has an Ecos type controller (Ecos I & II or CS1-R) , please check the output voltage of the SMPS, which can be done on screen, and make sure it indicates about 18-19 volts only.
This is adjustable on the ESU supplied, SMPS with a screw thingy at the output or low voltage end Wink
That said it is better to check it before connecting it, first time, with a multi meter, and set it at 18-19 volts, as I was instructed to do by my friend, Dennis The Train Dr, when first installing the "reload" into my CS1 Smile

This might help to prevent a repeat of Adrian's problem with the motor, in his M37643 Blink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline xxup  
#21 Posted : 07 October 2015 05:45:59(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,453
Location: Australia
This was not an over voltage problem either as I had an eCOS 1 at the time with the early (not adjustable) power supply. That particular machine, from memory, sat on a steady 17.3 or 17.5v for its entire life - verified later on with the right sort of DMM. However, having said that, we did run a couple of 6017 boosters with Marklin 52VA transformers, when the layout was much bigger - as the eCos does not report the output from these boosters and I did not have a RMS meter to measure the track voltage accurately (at the time), I can't say for certainty that the problem was not caused by over-voltage.

My personal opinion is that it was a manufacturing defect to have failed at such a low "mileage"..

And no, Miss 9 at the time easily recognised that this was a shunter and not a speed trial Zeppelin.. Flapper <---- from Miss 16!
Adrian
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Online H0  
#22 Posted : 07 October 2015 07:32:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I have the 37115 and came with wooden box. Good smooth running yet!

I have look at spare parts list for 37115 and 37116 - both motors part number are the same.


Excellent detective work, Sherlock.
The 37115 is one of my favorite locos. Along with all the others.


May I draw your attention to post #8:
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
37115 and 37116 have the same sparepart number for the motor - no longer available.
Sparepart list for 37117 is not yet around.


Yes, 37115 and 37116 have the same motor number in the spare part list. Price was around €120 and it is no longer in stock and won't come again (grey traffic light).
We do not know the number for 37117 yet. The motor from 37117 may or may not fit into the older models.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Online H0  
#23 Posted : 07 October 2015 07:46:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Just thinking about Adrian's other thread, re his M37643, and the fact that the Maxon Motor had had a melt down, probably caused by too much load on the Loco (I doubt it) or too high a voltage at the track. Scared
Märklin H0 locos are specified for up to 22 V track voltage. That's the voltage you get when using a 6021 or 6017 with 16 V AC. CS1 or CS2 used with 16 V AC give about the same voltage, about 20 through 22 V depending on the load.

The ECoS power supply comes with a default voltage of about 14 V. Those who don't read the manual and don't adjust the voltage may get problems because track voltage is too low for Märklin H0.

The decoder does not adjust the voltage that is passed to the motor, so higher track voltage leads to higher wear and may shorten the life of the motor. But even with 22 V there should be a reasonable lifetime.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#24 Posted : 07 October 2015 09:08:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I would agree with Adrian that this problem was probably caused by a defect in the motor, rather than over-voltage or other user-induced reason. Things sometimes break for no apparent reason.

Usually, the simpler a device, the less likely it will go wrong, hence the old Marklin motors, conceived during the last Ice Age, can go on seemingly for ever!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#25 Posted : 07 October 2015 14:36:18(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
After all, 37116 seems to be a good steamer. The price is very good also. I am pretty sure I will buy her in a few days time.
Thank you all for your help.BigGrin
Regards
Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#26 Posted : 08 October 2015 12:39:27(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Finally, I am the happy owner of a Marklin 37116 steamerBigGrin . OMG, she does look pretty!!!Drool Thanks for all the feedback.

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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