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Offline Oliver SBB-CFF-FFS  
#1 Posted : 25 October 2011 17:11:21(UTC)
Oliver SBB-CFF-FFS

Sweden   
Joined: 22/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 544
Hi all,

I recently came across an auction on a swedish ebay-like site. The seller originally had a buy-it-now option set at 10.000 SEK (1522USD). Please see the link below:

http://translate.google....auktion_180701_142297356

Could someone explain why this loco is this valuable? Is it just very rare, or is there something more to it? I can recall seeing several of these on second hand sites on good/fair condition going for much less (500-1500 SEK). I have searched the forum, but not really found an answer, but bear with me if this has in fact been asked before.

/Oliver

SBB Era IV - VI
Offline igf2  
#2 Posted : 25 October 2011 17:28:50(UTC)
igf2


Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 268
Location: France
Hello

You are right : this loco is seldom especially in good shape. Few where issued during the 60's compared to other Nohab such as the Belgian or the Danish ones.

Moreover, it is one of the few models which have been always seen as valuable in the Koll's.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Offline ricky  
#3 Posted : 25 October 2011 18:15:18(UTC)
ricky


Joined: 07/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: California
Hi Oliver,

be very very careful before spending lots of money on a 3063, 3045 or 3052. These 3 rare models were derived from much less rare models, and are temptations for crooks. What you should look for in the case of the 3063 is a "bad paint job": the yellow stripes are not well painted, especially in the front, look at the pics posted above by igf2, this is a real 3063. If the stripes are too "crisp", beware!! I do not say that the loc you are referring to is a fake, but from the pics I see, I cannot really tell if it is genuine. You need more close-up pics. The 3063 decal on the box seems genuine, but again this does not prove anything for the loc itself (look for 3063 on ebay.de, there is an empty box for sale at 75 euros, with a "make offer" button.)

You might also want to read carefully this thread from not long ago:
https://www.marklin-user...o-sells-for-1247-12.aspx

By the way, thanks to Markus who wrote in that thread:
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ricky,

The faked 3063 which came to the market about 30 years ago, are easy to identify, even if you only know a photo of the original loco: The colors are to bright and to opaque, espacially the yellow stripes. The fakes are "better" than the originals.

Even the stickers are not as easy to fake as it appears. Original stickers are nearly transparent today and have a glazed surface. Not so easy to fake.

Regards

Markus


Good luck!

Cheers,
Ricky Smile
Offline Oliver SBB-CFF-FFS  
#4 Posted : 26 October 2011 17:38:07(UTC)
Oliver SBB-CFF-FFS

Sweden   
Joined: 22/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 544
Thank you very much for the pictures Jean-Pierre! It looks like a very nice loco indeed. Smile
Ricky, thanks for the warning. Always good to know and I will keep it in mind if I ever consider getting one of these. For the moment I am not, I was just curious as why the price for this loco was this high.

It is really nice knowing one can count on this community for quick and reliable answers. Thank you!

Kind regards,
Oliver
SBB Era IV - VI
Offline stenscience  
#5 Posted : 26 October 2011 21:19:36(UTC)
stenscience


Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 789
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Yah, we recently talked a little about this in the thread Ricky mentioned.There were a couple of other things that concerned me
1. It appeared that the seller spent some effort not to show the box art. It appears to be a box for the 3066 (Belgian Nohab).We have discussed the practice of Marklin using whatever box was to hand, but a knowledgable seller would point that out.When I bid on an expensive loco with a box, I want to see a good picture of the box, including the specific area of the sticker.
2. The silver authenticator tag is included, but not attached.Again, a warning.You can buy boxes and tags on Ebay.
3. The seller has very low feedback.This is apparently the first item he has sold. I would not bid on something that expensive, with a low feedback seller, unless there was a provision for escrow or some type of independent assessment.
4. If our colleague igf2's pictures are a reliable guide (and I have no reason to doubt)then I am concerned about the couplers and the roof color.
Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 26 October 2011 21:35:45(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
My 3067 came in a 3066 box with stickers (bought new in the 60's) so a 3066 box would not indicate a fake, really...
However, have never seen "authenticity" silver stickers - not even in the 60's...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline ricky  
#7 Posted : 26 October 2011 22:33:06(UTC)
ricky


Joined: 07/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: California
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been boxes specifically for 3063 (with a drawing of a 3063 on the cover), the 3066 box/drawing was used for 3066, 3067, 3068 and 3063. Likewise there was never a box for 3045 and 3046, the 3047 box was used. Likewise there was no box for the 3059, the 3038 box was used. Other examples may exist. One of the members here has a "Capitole" box as avatar, but that is a Photoshop edit, I believe.

If there is any member that has a real illustration for one of the locs listed above (not 3066, 3047 or 3038), I would be very interested in seeing a photo of that box cover.

What was used were number stickers that were affixed on top of the original box loc numbers, on both end sides of the box, like 3063 stickers masking the original 3066 numbers.

Cheers,
Ricky Smile
Offline stenscience  
#8 Posted : 26 October 2011 22:48:07(UTC)
stenscience


Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 789
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Originally Posted by: ricky Go to Quoted Post
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been boxes specifically for 3063 (with a drawing of a 3063 on the cover), the 3066 box/drawing was used for 3066, 3067, 3068 and 3063. Likewise there was never a box for 3045 and 3046, the 3047 box was used. Likewise there was no box for the 3059, the 3038 box was used. Other examples may exist. One of the members here has a "Capitole" box as avatar, but that is a Photoshop edit, I believe.

If there is any member that has a real illustration for one of the locs listed above (not 3066, 3047 or 3038), I would be very interested in seeing a photo of that box cover.

What was used were number stickers that were affixed on top of the original box loc numbers, on both end sides of the box, like 3063 stickers masking the original 3066 numbers.

Cheers,
Ricky Smile

Thanks Ricky, for your clear statement-it helps a lot.I would really like to nail down the box/loco variants for my own knowledge. I guess I didn't express myself very well.I was just listing some of the thing that concerned me about the auction. I am actually mostly concerned about the differences in roof color observed when comparing the low quality auction photos with igf2's higher res ones, and it appears to me that the couplers are wrong for the loco type (hard to tell)
Having said that, I hope all works out in the auction.I don't like to see anyone get screwed in the hobby. The seller is new;he should have taken better care in the listing.
The Webmaster brings up a good point-does anyone know the 'silver tag'time frame?
Also;when I try to increase the image size, I get error messages-that's also a warning bell for me-the only way to increase the image size is to copy the thumb and stretch it,losing resolution unless you are a fancy app user.
Offline ricky  
#9 Posted : 26 October 2011 23:20:27(UTC)
ricky


Joined: 07/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: California
I agree, although I do not see something wrong with the couplers, but again, hard to tell.

Originally Posted by: stenscience Go to Quoted Post
Also;when I try to increase the image size, I get error messages-that's also a warning bell for me-the only way to increase the image size is to copy the thumb and stretch it,losing resolution unless you are a fancy app user.


I got the same error, but I realized that the link provided by Oliver was the Google translation of the original site (in swedish.) Because not everybody on this forum speaks swedish, Oliver provided a translation in English (Thanks Oliver!) If you copy the original link from the Google bar into your browser address box, you can view larger images without getting the Google error page, or just click below:

http://www.tradera.com/3...auktion_180701_142297356

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Ricky Smile
Offline igf2  
#10 Posted : 27 October 2011 16:24:25(UTC)
igf2


Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 268
Location: France
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
My 3067 came in a 3066 box with stickers (bought new in the 60's) so a 3066 box would not indicate a fake, really...
However, have never seen "authenticity" silver stickers - not even in the 60's...


I confirm that Marklin never issued a specific Box for this loco. They just added a sticker on the 3066 number on the side of the box.
Offline stenscience  
#11 Posted : 31 October 2011 13:45:33(UTC)
stenscience


Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 789
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Another confirmation. I pulled out most of my Nohabs from storage this past weekend. All of the blue box Nohabs were in 3066 boxes, with stickers attached to indicate 3066, 3067,3068, etc.
Offline MichelH  
#12 Posted : 27 September 2015 21:01:15(UTC)
MichelH

Belgium   
Joined: 27/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Arlon
Hello All,
The thread is a bit old but it matchs perfectly my search.
In a discussion with a fellow toy soldiers collector who happens to also collect Marklin trains, I just learned that he bought an old CFL loco at a impressive price.
After further discussing details it really looks like a loco I got in the 70s from an uncle who was a huge Marklin collector.
I think he bought it when on a trip in Luxembourg from his home in northern Belgium and gave it to me on his way back as I was living at the Luxembourg-belgian border.

It really looks like the one pictured above.
The box is a coloured one with various locos on it.
The number 3063 is on a sticker that cover the original numbering (3054) and a drawing of a loco.
Is that the same loco descibed in the article ? What can be its price in 2015 ?

Thansk for your assistance to a marklin noob.

Michel
Offline Mark_1602  
#13 Posted : 28 September 2015 07:58:53(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Michel,

I can only tell you what your locomotive is worth if you post detailed photos of it, taken from all sides, plus close-ups of the wheels, 2 photos of the box with the '3063' decals and the Serviceheft (if there is one). According to your description, it's a 3063.2 (or 3963), and in mint condition (i.e. never used!) it would be worth around 1,000 euros. You should also test the locomotive and open it to check if everything is original.

Collectors would pay more for the first version made from 1965-1967 if the light blue illustrated box and the instruction manual were included; the second version is rarer than the first, but collectors prefer locomotives from the 1960s in light blue boxes.

Probably your locomotive is used, so I need photos to tell you what it's worth. There are also fakes based on the 3066.2!

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline MichelH  
#14 Posted : 28 September 2015 21:08:56(UTC)
MichelH

Belgium   
Joined: 27/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Arlon
Hello Mark,
Thanks for your feedback.
Please find below some pictures of the loco.
Yes it has been used 35-40 years agowhen I was a kid and again 4 years ago when I played with my son (who wasn't much interested).
No booklet anymore and I guess every part is original as it as been with me for all this time (most of the time stored in the attic).
3063 5.jpg3063 4.jpg3063 7.jpg3063 2.jpg3063 1.jpg3063 6.jpg3063 3.jpg

Thanks again for your assistance.

Best regards,

Michel
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by MichelH
Offline Mark_1602  
#15 Posted : 29 September 2015 14:37:03(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Michel,

I've had a look at your photos. It seems to be an original 3063.2 from the 1970s and it's still in good condition though a bit used. Have you had a look inside? If it has been converted to digital, you can forget about the collector's value, but if it hasn't been tampered with, you should get at least 800 euros for the locomotive in case you want to sell it. The 3063 decal on the box looks original as well, in comparison with the boxes I have.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline Unholz  
#16 Posted : 29 September 2015 15:36:59(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
The 3063 decal on the box looks original as well, in comparison with the boxes I have.


Interesting thread. ThumpUp Sorry to interfere, but why does the 3063 sticker cover the drawing and number 3054? That would suggest a DB electric loco model, and wouldn't the styrofoam insert be different for such an item? Just curious...

Offline Mark_1602  
#17 Posted : 29 September 2015 19:03:34(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post


Interesting thread. ThumpUp Sorry to interfere, but why does the 3063 sticker cover the drawing and number 3054? That would suggest a DB electric loco model, and wouldn't the styrofoam insert be different for such an item? Just curious...




Hi,

The box of the 3063.2 (a.k.a. 3963) was a special case. To start with, that version was usually sold without a box between 1972 and 1976 as it was a so-called 'Teilesatz'. Usually those kit versions were shipped unmounted in unmarked brown boxes and often assembled by dealers, but customers (or dealers) could order a matching box from Märklin. During those years, that would have been a standardised dark blue 'photo' box like the one in Michel's photos, a.k.a. "Hippiekarton" (hippie box) among German Märklin fans. Those boxes were printed in several sizes, and usually featured stickers with the product number of the best-selling model in that category, which happened to be the 3054 in the case of the 26.5 cm box. That explains the seemingly 'wrong' number underneath the 3063 sticker. Märklin had a different styrofoam inset for each type of locomotive (e.g. 3067 for the Nohab/AFB diesel), so that was not a problem.

Another thing that needs to be said is that the 3063 sticker is different from the ones on other Märklin locomotives from the 1970s. Stickers printed since 1972 included an outline or silhouette of the locomotive, not just the number. I suppose that the number of boxes ordered for the 3963 must have been small, and unlike the 3067, 3066, or 3068, the 3063.2 was not in the Märklin catalogue in the 1970s, so the typical stickers were never printed for the 3063.2, though the other Nohab/AFB diesels got them in the 70s. A transparent 3063 sticker on top of a 3054 one is probably authentic; if it's not transparent at all, it's suspicious.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline MichelH  
#18 Posted : 29 September 2015 20:27:17(UTC)
MichelH

Belgium   
Joined: 27/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Arlon
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michel,

I've had a look at your photos. It seems to be an original 3063.2 from the 1970s and it's still in good condition though a bit used. Have you had a look inside? If it has been converted to digital, you can forget about the collector's value, but if it hasn't been tampered with, you should get at least 800 euros for the locomotive in case you want to sell it. The 3063 decal on the box looks original as well, in comparison with the boxes I have.

Best regards,

Mark


Hello Mark,

Thanks for all this information.
Maybe a last advice, where is the best place to sell this loco ?

Best regards,

Michel
Offline Mark_1602  
#19 Posted : 29 September 2015 21:16:26(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Michel,

I sometimes sell things from my own collection on Ebay.de. Auctions that start at 1 euro work best for me, but I already have a good reputation as a private seller on Ebay, so I often get bids from guys who have bought stuff from me in the past few years. It's an uphill struggle if you're a newbie on Ebay and come up with a well-known collector's model. Some buyers won't trust you because you've never sold anything like this before. You can also try selling it on this forum. Just add some more photos and show people the inside of the locomotive. It's already attracted a certain amount of attention here, so you might find a buyer.

In general, it's not so difficult to sell a 3063 because there are a lot of collectors who would like to have one.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline MichelH  
#20 Posted : 30 September 2015 21:14:09(UTC)
MichelH

Belgium   
Joined: 27/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Arlon
Mark,
Thanks again.
I will do as you advise : take more pictures and post them on this site.
Best regards,
Michel
Offline MichelH  
#21 Posted : 04 October 2015 16:03:53(UTC)
MichelH

Belgium   
Joined: 27/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Arlon
Hello All,

Please find some more pictures of a 3063 CFL loco that I received as a gift in the 70's and that I have now for sale.
It was then used by me for a few years and stored in the attic for nearly 3 decades. I used it again a few years ago when I played with my son (who didn't show much interest).
3063 04.jpg3063 09.jpg3063 03.jpg3063 05.jpg3063 07.jpg3063 08.jpg3063 01.jpg3063 06.jpg3063 11.jpg3063 10.jpg3063 02.jpg
Please contact me for any question if you are interested in purchasing it.
Thanks,
Michel
Offline MichelH  
#22 Posted : 04 October 2015 16:05:43(UTC)
MichelH

Belgium   
Joined: 27/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Arlon
And here is a short movie of a test made this afternoon.
Michel

3063 a.mp4 (8,377kb) downloaded 123 time(s).
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