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Offline GalacticAndrew  
#1 Posted : 03 September 2015 18:18:20(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
I am having a difficult time deciding between a Märklin mSD3 and an ESU 64499. I will be using an ms2. So:
1. Which one would you pick?
2. Where are the downloads for the sound files?
3. Do the current mSDs or Loksounds have better sound quality?

Thanks
Edit: I managed to somehow post this twice with different titles...

Edited by moderator 04 September 2015 14:09:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 03 September 2015 18:42:31(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
I am having a difficult time deciding between a Märklin mSD3 and an ESU 64499. I will be using an ms2. So:
1. Which one would you pick?
2. Where are the downloads for the sound files?
3. Do the current mSDs or Loksounds have better sound quality?

Thanks.


I suggest you try with the Märklins new decoder and give it an chance.
There is one reason why Märklin did start produce more advance decoder generation 3.
It´s to make it better than the old mfx decoder.
Märklin also present new speaker.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 03 September 2015 18:50:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I forgot to write,that the volume to adjust with the Märklins new generation 3 i´m not sure about that.
With the ESU you can do that via MS2.
With difference sounds function to adjust the volume is absolut must.
So perhaps it´s good to wait until decoder 3 arrives out and somebody did tested it first.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline biedmatt  
#4 Posted : 03 September 2015 18:52:03(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hi Andrew,

At present ESU has 231 european loko sound files.

I can't state who sounds better, I replace the M decoders right after I confirm the loko is good. But many say ESU sounds better.

http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...neration-4/loksound-v40/

I buy my ESU decoders here, he will load it with the sound file you desire.

http://store.sbs4dcc.com
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline witzlerh  
#5 Posted : 03 September 2015 19:13:46(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
ESU has better sound files on more loks than Marklin.
However I have found that there is the odd one that Marklin has done recently and ESU has not updated from their earlier attempts (Taurus in this case).

I am a fan of ESU despite having a CS2. But I am also a realist and will occasionally go with a Marklin decoder if they have a good sound file.

I also have a lok programmer now too and that helps with programming.
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 03 September 2015 19:20:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
1. Which one would you pick?
That depends on the prototype class and the model motor.
BTW: Presently we know nothing about the mSD/3 beyond the marketing bla bla they published.

Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
3. Do the current mSDs or Loksounds have better sound quality?
ESU have old and new sound projects. Some older projects were converted from the V3 decoder and do not take full advantage of the V4 capabilities, some projects are new and were made for the V4 decoders.
In general ESU projects show more variation: diesel working harder when loco accelerates, diesel easing up when loco slows down.
Currently available mSD are limited to 16 functions, current ESU decoders support 29 functions (and some decoders come with 29 preset functions).

Makes no difference for MS2 users as the MS2 is limited to 16 functions.

To upload sounds to an ESU decoder, a LokProgrammer is needed. You need Märklin tools to upload sounds to an mSD.
For your first conversion, you will probably look for a dealer who uploads the sound of choice to the decoder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline witzlerh  
#7 Posted : 03 September 2015 19:28:05(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
ESU and Märklin have samples of what their sounds are like for most cases.
ESU does have an English website listing the sounds...under downloads.

On the other hand, you have to struggle with the German Märklin website under Decoder-updates. There is a lot of pictures and symbols if you do not understand German at all. My German is not great but I can get to the files.

However with your MS2, you will have to get someone to load the sound files for you whether it is ESU or Märklin.

I have a CS2 and struggled without a manual to learn how to use it. (I later learned that there was a German manual and I google translated it as I needed to).

I have a LokProgrammer from ESU and that helps get the ESU sounds uploaded. Manual is in English too. Most good dealers will upload the sounds for you. You then can use the MS2 to adjusts the CV's to get you what you want....although it is tedious compared to CS2 or LokProgrammer software.
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 03 September 2015 20:09:05(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
ESU do have more sounds files to choose.
Märklin do also have sounds file.
But there is difference with theirs sounds decoders!
In nowadays i would choose an ESU sound decoder and try it.
Next project i suggest you get one Märklins new generation 3 decoder and test it,but wait until the present of the test result shows.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#9 Posted : 03 September 2015 21:13:55(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
After listening to the sounds on both websites I am going to go with the esu decoder. It will be for a BR44, BR01, and a BR18.4.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by GalacticAndrew
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 03 September 2015 21:21:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
With the ESU decoder, to download sounds into it you will need a Lokprogrammer if you are going to download them yourself, or to modify the sound files. You may have a local dealer with a Lokprogrammer who can load them for you, and you may be able to modify a sound file and take it to them to download, but more than one update to a file may get the dealer not want to do it for free.

Despite Goofy's enthusiasm, I am not sure what to make of Marklins new decoders. It is unclear to me if it is possible to use a CS2 to download the sound files if you wish to change them. You said you have an MS2, so would need to purchase a Marklin programmer anyway.

The software for both programmers runs on Windows only.

ESU decoders have the facility of changing CV values with any DCC system. The JMRI program can be used with almost any DCC system and has the added facility that all the CV registers, and where bits within registers have different functions, are all called out with English understandable names and saves having to remember CV numbers and bits that you wish to change. It is possible to get a basic programmer like an Sprog for a reasonable price if you don't have access to a DCC system. Once a sound file is loaded into the decoder everything can be done to allocate sound functions and operational functions (lights, smoke generator, uncoupler, etc) to function buttons by setting CVs.

JMRI has one disadvantage in doing this, it is slow compared to a Lokprogrammer as it has to do all operations using NMRA defined methods to access and set CV values in the decoder. The Lokprogrammer uses a proprietary method of accessing the decoder data that is a lot faster.

JMRI can also run on a Mac or Linux system as well as Windows.

Personally I would go with an ESU decoder, as I already have a Lokprogrammer, and a system that can access the CV registers and will interface with JMRI.

Another item you may wish to consider is the ESU decoder tester. Like the Marklin programmer the decoder plugs directly into it, and contains a motor, speaker, LEDS for function output indicators, and connectors for attaching to a host control unit. This allows you tune the decoder CVs for setting up the function matching and motor control tuning. This should be useable with a Marklin decoder as well.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 03 September 2015 21:31:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
See also my post over on this other thread.
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#12 Posted : 03 September 2015 22:15:58(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
I admit to being a die hard Marklin fan, and have only ever bought M products since 1959! Until a few months ago when I bought the ESU decoder for my old 1970 V200 - Modelbahnshop Lippe loaded the correct sound card for me - and I must admit the sounds are truly excellent ThumpUp - the only drawback of course is that I am limited to "only" 16 sounds on my MS2; I miss out on the other 5 or 6 sounds! ...maybe an ECOS is the way to go...... RollEyes ???
Joe
Offline clapcott  
#13 Posted : 03 September 2015 23:44:03(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Makes no difference for MS2 users as the MS2 is limited to 16 functions.


The MS2 may only be able to operate/trigger function F0-F15, however , as the promotional video portrays ,a function may be defined that links multiple other decoder functions.

Within the decoder these other function may be in the F16-31 range and be utilised indirectly via the lower Fx that the MS2/MS1/602x can access
Peter
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#14 Posted : 04 September 2015 09:45:25(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
Does anyone know what you need in addition to an ESU decoder and motor kit to convert a 3047, 48, and 3518?
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 04 September 2015 10:48:48(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know what you need in addition to an ESU decoder and motor kit to convert a 3047, 48, and 3518?


If you are willing to keep the old flat commutator 3 pole motor and just use the ESU permanent magnet that comes with the kit you need nothing else.

If you want to convert them to 5 pole DCM motors then you need the Marklin motor kits. I believe 3047 is a straightforward conversion with the Marklin 60944 kit, but the 3048 requires a special kit available from Marklin specifically for this loco. The 3518 has one of the unusual and short lived analogue 5 pole motors. You may be able to convert it with the MArklin 60901 motor kit, but I'm not sure.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 04 September 2015 12:01:55(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,635
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
another option and I think a better option is the 5 pol motor kit available on ebay.de at a reasonable price, why I'm saying this and my current experiences have been with the ESU perm.magnet I haven't been able to program them in a way at slow speed and some of you may not require or opt for this choice.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 04 September 2015 14:05:40(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
Edit: I managed to somehow post this twice with different titles...


The two threads created have been merged into this one.
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Offline GalacticAndrew  
#18 Posted : 04 September 2015 17:21:21(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know what you need in addition to an ESU decoder and motor kit to convert a 3047, 48, and 3518?


If you are willing to keep the old flat commutator 3 pole motor and just use the ESU permanent magnet that comes with the kit you need nothing else.

If you want to convert them to 5 pole DCM motors then you need the Marklin motor kits. I believe 3047 is a straightforward conversion with the Marklin 60944 kit, but the 3048 requires a special kit available from Marklin specifically for this loco. The 3518 has one of the unusual and short lived analogue 5 pole motors. You may be able to convert it with the Marklin 60901 motor kit, but I'm not sure.


Do you know what the article number of the motor for the 3048 is?
Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 04 September 2015 17:57:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know what you need in addition to an ESU decoder and motor kit to convert a 3047, 48, and 3518?


If you are willing to keep the old flat commutator 3 pole motor and just use the ESU permanent magnet that comes with the kit you need nothing else.

If you want to convert them to 5 pole DCM motors then you need the Marklin motor kits. I believe 3047 is a straightforward conversion with the Marklin 60944 kit, but the 3048 requires a special kit available from Marklin specifically for this loco. The 3518 has one of the unusual and short lived analogue 5 pole motors. You may be able to convert it with the Marklin 60901 motor kit, but I'm not sure.


Do you know what the article number of the motor for the 3048 is?


The Marklin part number is E188838
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline jeehring  
#20 Posted : 06 September 2015 15:00:56(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
the sound quality depends mostly on the quality of the sound recording,sound pickup, sound engineering... ...
some records are old, some are newer and made with the best equipment ...
Some sounds probably can be remasterised as well ...

I do not know all the sounds of all the decoders installed in either the manufacturers, ESU or Marklin ...
Personnally I just realized :
that it was not long ago there was still some "old" sounds at ESU (they have developped their range early...)
that some Marklin models of SBB loks (Swiss loks) have really good sound....
No particular rules....excepted that if the quality of the source ( registering) is good it means a better opportunity to obtain nice sounds....
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