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Offline sjlauritsen  
#1 Posted : 25 August 2015 15:26:17(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
It looks like there is a new decoder generation on its way.

http://www.maerklin.de/d...ten2015/60972u60972.html

mld3 and msd3.

And a new decoder programmer.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Online H0  
#2 Posted : 25 August 2015 15:45:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
The specs mention "mfx, MM1, MM2 und DCC", but no mfx+.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#3 Posted : 25 August 2015 16:19:58(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The specs mention "mfx, MM1, MM2 und DCC", but no mfx+.

No, sadly. I was hoping for that.

Other than that it looks great and promising. :-) I bet mfx+ is just a software update away though. I am sure they will release it, eventually. :-)
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 25 August 2015 16:22:37(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
Total 12 new items in fall 2015 is now online today.

See Fall 2015 database in English >LINK<
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline 3rail4life  
#5 Posted : 25 August 2015 16:23:28(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The specs mention "mfx, MM1, MM2 und DCC", but no mfx+.


yes, I found the omission of any reference to mfx+ curious, but they did say this:

Der Decoder ist vorbereitet für 32 Funktionen und erlaubt somit mehr reale Spielsituationen.

The decoder is prepared for 32 functions, thus allowing more real game situations.

So maybe the game gets bigger? a new name perhaps?

I really don't care for the game feature (mfx+) myself, but I am looking forward to the decoders and hoping the new decoder tool software will actually be something that can be used as advertised, this time...

Cheers,
Gordon

Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 25 August 2015 23:56:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Well I see three distinct groups of decoders in that line-up

60975, 60976, 60977 in one group.

60978, 60979, in a second group.

60985, 60986, 60987 in a third group.

But there is no explanation as to what their functions are.

Then there is 60972 and 60982 with no sound.

60973 seems to be altogether new.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline sjlauritsen  
#7 Posted : 26 August 2015 05:13:37(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
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Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
But there is no explanation as to what their functions are.

Expect them to do exactly what the previous decoders did.

The 60973 is a control board train sets with two pickup shoes. Like the ICE and so on.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 26 August 2015 08:34:56(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've added some explanation from the Marklin website linked in the first post above.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Well I see three distinct groups of decoders in that line-up

60975, 60976, 60977 in one group.

60975 - Sound decoder (Steam) with adapter PCB

60976 - Sound decoder (Diesel) with adapter PCB

60977 - Sound decoder (Electric) with adapter PCB

60978, 60979, in a second group.

60978 - Sound decoder for Hobby Diesel locos

60979 - Sound decoder for Hobby Electric locos

60985, 60986, 60987 in a third group.

[img]60985 - Sound decoder (Steam) with trailing wires[/img]

60986 - Sound decoder (Diesel) with training wires

60987 - Sound decoder (Electric) with trailing wires

But there is no explanation as to what their functions are.

Then there is 60972 and 60982 with no sound.

60972 - Non sound decoder with adapter PCB

60982 - Non sound decoder with trailing wires

60973 seems to be altogether new.

60973 - Adapter PCB for use in railcars using two pickup shoes

Kimball


Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 26 August 2015 08:43:20(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Yes Søren, so the line-up may look like:

21 pin 60975 steam, 60976 diesel, 60977 electric (replaces 60945, 60946, 60947).

21 pin 60978 Hercules diesel, 60979 Traxx electric (replaces 60948, 60949).

Hardwire/8 pin 60985 steam, 60986 diesel, 60987 electric (replaces 60965, 60966, 60967).

The names MLD and MSD are so annoying.
Everytime I am searching for a decoder, I have to refer to a paper catalogue.
Why can't I look on the internet for something I can sensibly remember, like MSD1-21 (for steam 21 pin), or MLD-8 (for 8 pin) etc.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 28 August 2015 19:46:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
I´m not really sure if mfx+ decoder will keep on as generation 3.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 28 August 2015 23:56:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not really sure if mfx+ decoder will keep on as generation 3.


Confused Confused Confused what do you mean? Marklin will not be dropping mfx+ anytime soon. Confused Confused Confused
Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 30 August 2015 13:18:07(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
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Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The specs mention "mfx, MM1, MM2 und DCC", but no mfx+.


yes, I found the omission of any reference to mfx+ curious


These decoders are specifically for Retro-fit. Marklin have always retained the mFX+ decoder as a factory fit only and they will simply continue this policy. It is unlikely they will use different hardware and will just change the firmware.



Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#13 Posted : 30 August 2015 13:26:26(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
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Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I am suspicious about the "automatically calibrate" feature. Nothing is 100% automatic.

At the very best this might mean "when first installed after programming" , however there has to be other considerations e.g. perform on roller-desk and/or with no load (wagons) on a flat gradient. And there has to be something about ensuring the gears and transmission including side rods are free with no binds.

A similar feature on ESU decoders can be re-activated by setting a CV

It would be good to know if there is any ongoing monitoring and tweaking of motor performance over time.


Peter
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 30 August 2015 13:47:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
I am suspicious about the "automatically calibrate" feature. Nothing is 100% automatic.

At the very best this might mean "when first installed after programming" , however there has to be other considerations e.g. perform on roller-desk and/or with no load (wagons) on a flat gradient. And there has to be something about ensuring the gears and transmission including side rods are free with no binds.

A similar feature on ESU decoders can be re-activated by setting a CV

It would be good to know if there is any ongoing monitoring and tweaking of motor performance over time.




My understanding is that the ESU automatic motor calibration feature works extremely well. All that is needed afterward is to set up the speed curves.

Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 30 August 2015 14:51:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not really sure if mfx+ decoder will keep on as generation 3.


Confused Confused Confused what do you mean? Marklin will not be dropping mfx+ anytime soon. Confused Confused Confused


Well...let´s say Märklin start new generation CS3,which you can connect with the wi-fi and you download Märklin app.
With this app,you can simulate cab driver by present different locomotive.
You have mobil phone or tablets.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline sjlauritsen  
#16 Posted : 30 August 2015 22:26:37(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
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Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Well...let´s say Märklin start new generation CS3,which you can connect with the wi-fi and you download Märklin app.
With this app,you can simulate cab driver by present different locomotive. You have mobil phone or tablets.

It won't matter. It is important to understand that mfx+ is all about storing the information in the locomotive itself. mfx+ is not some special protocol, it is "just" a set of features and/or configuration values on top of the original mfx.

This means that no matter what control device you use with the Central Station, mfx+ will still work. This is a major difference from other systems that keeps the information in the controlling unit (e.g. Z21 is "just" a command relay box, the simulation (fuel consumption etc.) takes place in the controlling iPad only). If several controllers are used, they will have different ideas on the levels of fuel.

IMHO mfx+ is a more flexible system since more controllers can be in play. This means that no matter what controller you use, the locomotive will still run out of fuel when it is empty.

As with anything else there are pros and cons - and it is a matter of personal taste. I am sure some will disagree with me. Smile

- With the Z21 (and others) you do not need a special decoder, which is powerful in itself, but the information is stored in only one controller and cannot be shared. Fine, if you only use one controller.

- With mfx+ the information is stored in the locomotive. Any controller for the Central Station will automatically work with it. Great if you use mutiple controllers. A special decoder (or at least firmware) is needed. Potentially expensive should Märklin ever make it possible to retrofit locomotives. My guess would be that all current mLD or mSD can be mfx+-ified with a software update. This would of course make upgrading existing decoders free.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Goofy  
#17 Posted : 31 August 2015 06:58:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Well...let´s say Märklin start new generation CS3,which you can connect with the wi-fi and you download Märklin app.
With this app,you can simulate cab driver by present different locomotive. You have mobil phone or tablets.

It won't matter. It is important to understand that mfx+ is all about storing the information in the locomotive itself. mfx+ is not some special protocol, it is "just" a set of features and/or configuration values on top of the original mfx.

This means that no matter what control device you use with the Central Station, mfx+ will still work. This is a major difference from other systems that keeps the information in the controlling unit (e.g. Z21 is "just" a command relay box, the simulation (fuel consumption etc.) takes place in the controlling iPad only). If several controllers are used, they will have different ideas on the levels of fuel.

IMHO mfx+ is a more flexible system since more controllers can be in play. This means that no matter what controller you use, the locomotive will still run out of fuel when it is empty.

As with anything else there are pros and cons - and it is a matter of personal taste. I am sure some will disagree with me. Smile

- With the Z21 (and others) you do not need a special decoder, which is powerful in itself, but the information is stored in only one controller and cannot be shared. Fine, if you only use one controller.

- With mfx+ the information is stored in the locomotive. Any controller for the Central Station will automatically work with it. Great if you use mutiple controllers. A special decoder (or at least firmware) is needed. Potentially expensive should Märklin ever make it possible to retrofit locomotives. My guess would be that all current mLD or mSD can be mfx+-ified with a software update. This would of course make upgrading existing decoders free.


But you don´t need mfx+ to have simulate cabinet in the display like Rocos Z21.
With Z21 you need just only standard decoder.
That´s how to use wi-fi with the app too.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Online H0  
#18 Posted : 31 August 2015 08:12:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
But you don´t need mfx+ to have simulate cabinet in the display like Rocos Z21.
Yep. Søren wrote it is just a matter of taste.

RailCom has a patent on using loco feedback to determine loco position.
mfx+ has a patent to simulate loco resources in the decoder.


Would it be great to have cab control with Delta decoders, 6090 and 60901 decoders? Yep, great for the consumers.
But there is no money in it for Märklin.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 31 August 2015 09:25:32(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
With wi-fi in the new generation CSx it does help for the customer.
Just download app.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 31 August 2015 16:51:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
With wi-fi in the new generation CSx it does help for the customer.
Just download app.


But as Tom (HO) said, there is no money in that for Marklin. The cost of the app is not going to be a serious revenue stream for them the way mfx+ fitted locos are. The only reason to charge for an app is it makes it not worth any other company trying to use it on their system, and Marklin get some traceability on where they are selling.

I could envisage the current Marklin app being upgraded to handle the mfx+ functionality with a cab view - and they would probably charge twice the price for it, justified by the development effort.

Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 31 August 2015 18:18:45(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Wrong!
Let´s say an app cost €5 which Märklin sell to the Märklinist.
There is 10 000 Märklinist who has just bought new generation CSx with the wi-fi and start to download app.
That result for the Märklin company €50 000 in reward!
To keep on with mfx+ is therefore bad business for the Märklin company.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline witzlerh  
#22 Posted : 31 August 2015 18:48:51(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
Goofy, an app is nice but with it's own problems too.

First off, we need a physical interface between the wi-fi and the track. This interface would at most be a complex circuit or at least a small computer that would require upgrades anyway.

At a recent train meet, we had a guy with a Z21. He had fun until his iPad drained. I switched his track to my CS2 while he charged up his iPad.
Another problem was his iPad went to sleep while we were studying the Marklin Magazine centerfold (Lufthansa train). A collision was imminent and in the rush to wake up his pad, he entered the wrong password and the trains collided.

There were a lot of other issues, mainly getting other people's ithingy to connect. It was not an issue for a simple connect and play but it was an issue to have another idevice to have authorization to make roster edits.

Half of the issues we had to deal with were not Z21 related.

I used the Main Station iPad app frequently but if I allow my iPad it to go to sleep, I can quickly run to the CS2 to change something or stop everything. No such luck on the Z21. I would at least have an e-stop on the Z21...

If Marklin would go all the way and only provide an app and rely on someone else to provide the wifi-track interface, then if there are problems, everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else...not a one piece solution at all.

Edit. Going back on topic. The new wave of decoders is 21 pin so we can have more lights and functions. This is the main reason for the new decoders.
As more people want to have more functions, the 8pin decoder is not going to cut it anymore. It is getting very easy to add the extra lights and functions.
I do see that the CS2 will be going through an update to allow access to more than the current 16 functions.

The challenge Marklin has is to do this while not making too much of a change to the current well designed display that we currently enjoy. Most users at first will not care to have the ability to have access to 17+ functions and will NOT like a smaller display that shows a lot of blank area for the few that have many functions.

I like the idea of the new decoders but currently am more comfortable with ESU decoders...but I use the odd mSD when Marklin has the odd sound file that is better than ESU. I will wait and see how far Marklin goes with this.
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
Offline kiwiAlan  
#23 Posted : 31 August 2015 19:43:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Wrong!
Let´s say an app cost €5 which Märklin sell to the Märklinist.
There is 10 000 Märklinist who has just bought new generation CSx with the wi-fi and start to download app.
That result for the Märklin company €50 000 in reward!
To keep on with mfx+ is therefore bad business for the Märklin company.


But that is only a 100 mfx+ locos to get €50 000

Offline kimballthurlow  
#24 Posted : 31 August 2015 23:42:35(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Some European dealers are still charging €100 for the M decoders that are soon to be superceded.
I guess the new decoders will be no different in price, so why buy now?

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Online H0  
#25 Posted : 01 September 2015 08:09:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
[...] so why buy now?
Some dealers offered the 60940 for EUR 40 and the 60946 around EUR 53 (incl. VAT).
You could always get them around EUR 65 anyway. Time will tell if the new decoders will come at the same street price.

I bought a few of those. The load regulation is not that good, but with well-behaving five-pole motors or with C Sine motors they are doing OK.

You will always find dealers that still list items that sold out at the factory.


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Let´s say an app cost €5 which Märklin sell to the Märklinist.
There is 10 000 Märklinist who has just bought new generation CSx with the wi-fi and start to download app.
That result for the Märklin company €50 000 in reward!
EUR 50,000 is the wage for one German software developer for a year (you can get it cheaper if you outsource to Ukraine or India).

EUR 50,000 sales in the shop include VAT and shop charges, so Märklin will get a much smaller amount.
EUR 50,000 is not much for a company aiming to sell for EUR 100,000,000 per year.
Can they get EUR 50,000 with the app every year?

Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
But that is only a 100 mfx+ locos to get €50 000
More likely 200 or more. The RRP includes VAT and the dealer's share and some mfx+ locos have a list price of EUR 280. They do have some material and labour costs with each loco.

But yes: they make more money with locos than with apps.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 01 September 2015 09:18:43(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Wrong!
Let´s say an app cost €5 which Märklin sell to the Märklinist.
There is 10 000 Märklinist who has just bought new generation CSx with the wi-fi and start to download app.
That result for the Märklin company €50 000 in reward!
To keep on with mfx+ is therefore bad business for the Märklin company.


But that is only a 100 mfx+ locos to get €50 000



That was totally unnecessary to use locomotive model to equal as app!
Märklin also use mfx standard decoder.
So don´t use locomotives as bad excuse!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#27 Posted : 01 September 2015 09:25:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Let´s say an app cost €5 which Märklin sell to the Märklinist.
There is 10 000 Märklinist who has just bought new generation CSx with the wi-fi and start to download app.
That result for the Märklin company €50 000 in reward!
EUR 50,000 is the wage for one German software developer for a year (you can get it cheaper if you outsource to Ukraine or India).

EUR 50,000 sales in the shop include VAT and shop charges, so Märklin will get a much smaller amount.
EUR 50,000 is not much for a company aiming to sell for EUR 100,000,000 per year.
Can they get EUR 50,000 with the app every year?


But yes: they make more money with locos than with apps.


I did present 10 000 Märklinist as exemple,but in fact does there is more than that.
50 000 euro is an drop of the ocean water,by selling app for 5 euro each time.
No they don´t make more money with the locos which have mfx+ than with the apps.
I believe Märklin will add wi-fi for the new generation CSx,which leads to mfx+ as waste!
Is that´s way Märklin didn´t present new generation decoder 3 with the mfx+ too??

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#28 Posted : 01 September 2015 14:12:23(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Sigh!

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline rorosha  
#29 Posted : 01 September 2015 15:33:30(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Sigh!



Absolutely no sense of reality.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#30 Posted : 01 September 2015 18:59:47(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Sigh!



Absolutely no sense of reality.


Glad he's not my accountant ... RollEyes Scared

Offline Goofy  
#31 Posted : 01 September 2015 20:47:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Why should Märklinist alone just have simulate cabinet with the mfx+ and not for the DCC??
Is that´s way Märklin did not present new generation decoder 3 with mfx+??
Right now in the CS2 there is no simulate cabinet for the DCC.
I believe Märklin will present new CSx with the wi-fi,so you can use simulate cabinet for the mfx and DCC protocol.
When you buy Trix locomotive,there is no mfx+ decoder,just mfx standard.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#32 Posted : 01 September 2015 21:10:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why should Märklinist alone just have simulate cabinet with the mfx+ and not for the DCC??
Is that´s way Märklin did not present new generation decoder 3 with mfx+??
Right now in the CS2 there is no simulate cabinet for the DCC.
I believe Märklin will present new CSx with the wi-fi,so you can use simulate cabinet for the mfx and DCC protocol.
When you buy Trix locomotive,there is no mfx+ decoder,just mfx standard.


Perhaps the reason is that someone else owns the patent to railcom, and Marklin don't want to pay for it to use it on DCC.
Offline Shamu  
#33 Posted : 02 September 2015 01:55:17(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Not to mention the fact that a great many of us don't give a rodents rectum about it.

In no way shape or form would it influence me to buy a loco (or decoder) just to have a totally pointless feature.

I want to watch my trains go around, not have to look at a screen most of the time....... if I did I could have saved 60K + and just bought Train Simulator Wink

Of course just my opinion. BigGrin
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#34 Posted : 02 September 2015 02:18:06(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
FACT :

Marklin and ESU are not friends at all, but fierce competitors in the digital equipment field !

WHY :

ESU totally ripped off Marklin who paid them to develop the CS1, and Marklin systems, including MFX, whilst ESU also developed the Ecos alongside and the old boffins at Marklin made the agreement so loose, that huge omissions in that agreement allowed ESU to "do there own thing" in parallel IE; the Ecos and after much angst and a new agreement, M4 (mfx) [thank goodness for that Wink ]

RESULT :

An embarrassing underdone CS1 that was totally Usurped by the Ecos, in that it did not have S88, or booster connections, or a turntable page just to mention two (edit three) deficiencies.
Fortunate/unfortunate result for CS1 owners, ESU's "Central Station Reloaded" which us CS1 owners had to pay more money for when that was already developed, but at least we got a new Switched Mode Power Supply and a stylus for our money, the firmware, M had already paid for and was already operating in the Ecos, but we paid for it again Blushing


RAILCOM, developed by ESU and Lenz, and owned exclusively by them, and could be licensed, but Marklin would not do that on principal ! IMHO
I have seen it work and it is good Cool

WHAT THE NEW M DECODERS BRING (IMHO) is; more functions and programming possibilities (and a better programming tool than the earlier one)

MFX+ has, and will always be, exclusive to New Factory Locos, so don't expect it to be available on the M retrofit decoders
I do have five or six MFX+ Loks and at this stage, and two more on order (Kl 41 37929 and 18.5 39030 Wink ) but I don't have a CS2 on order as yet RollEyes Scared but I do think MFX+ is fun and I will include it's full functional ability into my new layout, but IMHO I think it could become just a tedious distraction after awhile Confused

One more thing, I only own Marklin Locos Smile (99.9% Digital and 95% MFX Wink )
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Shamu  
#35 Posted : 02 September 2015 02:32:08(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Must admit I would be very happy if "M" bit the bullet and licensed Railcom, hell I'd even be happy to pay extra for the decoder...... then again I have enough to convert all my analogue/delta so I doubt I'll be buying any more.

Off on a bit of a tangent......... you can disable MFX+ can't you Confused, won't be a happy camper if I'm forced to use it with the couple I have.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#36 Posted : 02 September 2015 02:54:46(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Shane,
I have a MFX+ loco (37167) and I use it quite happily with old CS1 and MS1.
I am unable to use the cab control features, but that at the moment does not appeal to me.
I did not have to disable anything.
And even with a CS2, you are not obliged to use or activate cab control.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#37 Posted : 02 September 2015 04:19:33(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Must admit I would be very happy if "M" bit the bullet and licensed Railcom, hell I'd even be happy to pay extra for the decoder...... then again I have enough to convert all my analogue/delta so I doubt I'll be buying any more.

Off on a bit of a tangent......... you can disable MFX+ can't you Confused, won't be a happy camper if I'm forced to use it with the couple I have.


Hi Shane,

Railcom's only advantage is that it gives a faster recognition speed and, if you have the extra equipment, the location of your Loco on the layout,
but most computer operating programs give you that via S88s anyway, which are essential to a computer operated environment.
I admire railcom but do not pine for it at all, and once a Loco is registered, I find iMFX absolutely effective. My layout with 20 or so locos at once on it including those in the 12 bay roundhouse, that will get rotated out and hopefully still get added to, may tell me something different, but I'll deal with it when the time comes ThumpUp
Ecos' have their problems at times as obviously does CS2's but sometimes I suspect it's because of a non ideal environment / connection and operator issue, and probably I'll be giving mine that too, but thanks to this forum hope to avoid or remedy most problems !? RollEyes

The one personal MFX headache avoiding tip I can offer is, don't delete a Loco from your CS/MS Controller whilst it is on the track

Cheers
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline Hackcell  
#38 Posted : 02 September 2015 05:55:14(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post


Hi Shane,

Railcom's only advantage is that it gives a faster recognition speed and, if you have the extra equipment, the location of your Loco on the layout,
but most computer operating programs give you that via S88s anyway, which are essential to a computer operated environment.
I admire railcom but do not pine for it at all, and once a Loco is registered, I find iMFX absolutely effective. My layout with 20 or so locos at once on it including those in the 12 bay roundhouse, that will get rotated out and hopefully still get added to, may tell me something different, but I'll deal with it when the time comes ThumpUp
Ecos' have their problems at times as obviously does CS2's but sometimes I suspect it's because of a non ideal environment / connection and operator issue, and probably I'll be giving mine that too, but thanks to this forum hope to avoid or remedy most problems !? RollEyes

The one personal MFX headache avoiding tip I can offer is, don't delete a Loco from your CS/MS Controller whilst it is on the track

Cheers


Computer software detects where a loco is located on the layout because it keeps a record of where the locomotive was. If I stop the program/CS2 and then move a locomotive to another section or swap the location of two the program will be pointless.

railcom doesn't have that problem as long as you have the needed hardware.

I'd also love to see Marklin including railcom support.



Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Goofy  
#39 Posted : 02 September 2015 07:00:14(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why should Märklinist alone just have simulate cabinet with the mfx+ and not for the DCC??
Is that´s way Märklin did not present new generation decoder 3 with mfx+??
Right now in the CS2 there is no simulate cabinet for the DCC.
I believe Märklin will present new CSx with the wi-fi,so you can use simulate cabinet for the mfx and DCC protocol.
When you buy Trix locomotive,there is no mfx+ decoder,just mfx standard.


Perhaps the reason is that someone else owns the patent to railcom, and Marklin don't want to pay for it to use it on DCC.


No...i mean to put mfx+ decoder in the Trix locomotive too.
You can use mfx with two rail too.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline NZMarklinist  
#40 Posted : 02 September 2015 07:07:43(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why should Märklinist alone just have simulate cabinet with the mfx+ and not for the DCC??
Is that´s way Märklin did not present new generation decoder 3 with mfx+??
Right now in the CS2 there is no simulate cabinet for the DCC.
I believe Märklin will present new CSx with the wi-fi,so you can use simulate cabinet for the mfx and DCC protocol.
When you buy Trix locomotive,there is no mfx+ decoder,just mfx standard.


Perhaps the reason is that someone else owns the patent to railcom, and Marklin don't want to pay for it to use it on DCC.


No...i mean to put mfx+ decoder in the Trix locomotive too.
You can use mfx with two rail too.



Goofy, you can buy an ESU Loksound decoder V4, and put it in a Trix lok but to use Railcom you will need an Ecos Sneaky
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Online H0  
#41 Posted : 02 September 2015 08:04:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
ESU totally ripped off Marklin who paid them to develop the CS1, and Marklin systems, including MFX, whilst ESU also developed the Ecos alongside and the old boffins at Marklin made the agreement so loose, that huge omissions in that agreement allowed ESU to "do there own thing" in parallel IE; the Ecos and after much angst and a new agreement, M4 (mfx) [thank goodness for that Wink ]
We don't know whether there was a ripp-off and, if yes, on which side.
We do know that adults signed the contracts.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#42 Posted : 02 September 2015 09:32:00(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
I´m sure Märklins new generation decoder 3 will put in the Märklin/Trix locomotive as standard when you buy ready sound locomotive.
So you can choise mfx or DCC protocol by disable.
If you have CSx with the wi-fi you can simulate cabinet for both 2 and 3 rail.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline steventrain  
#43 Posted : 09 September 2015 20:54:05(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
Delivery Dates!

60971 -SEPT
60972 -OCT
60973 -OCT
60975 to 60979 -SEPT
60982 to 60987 -OCT
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Goofy  
#44 Posted : 10 September 2015 19:56:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Delivery Dates!

60971 -SEPT
60972 -OCT
60973 -OCT
60975 to 60979 -SEPT
60982 to 60987 -OCT


That was fast delivery!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Online H0  
#45 Posted : 10 September 2015 22:19:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
That was fast delivery!
Some decoders of the first generation ran out of stock in April.

They didn't want to announce the new decoders while they had old decoders in stock.

They must have prepared this for several months. Some dealers sold the rest of the mSD 60% under RRP only weeks before the Fall new items were announced.
Limited availability from April till September/October? Not the best thing that can happen to a company that wants to sell, sell, sell.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline jonas_sthlm  
#46 Posted : 10 September 2015 23:08:59(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 881
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Collecting Swedish items since the 80s / CS3+ / MSW / 60175 Booster / 60881 S88 AC / TC10 Gold / K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class Ra / modelltag.se - Forum modelltag.se - Facebook modelltag.se - YouTube
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#47 Posted : 10 September 2015 23:22:55(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Hi Jonas,
That is a useful explanation of all the things I wanted to know about the decoders.

The progress that has been made by Marklin is great.

Of course, the programmer MDT/3 is only useable when the decoder is not installed in the locomotive.
The next step will be a USB interface under the locomotive.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline biedmatt  
#48 Posted : 10 September 2015 23:58:19(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Nothing about additional options to implement automatic brake control? Still only done via a DC signal from a power source other than your controller?
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#49 Posted : 11 September 2015 02:17:27(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Nothing about additional options to implement automatic brake control? Still only done via a DC signal from a power source other than your controller?


Yes, Matt, I don't see why that could not be implemented by a coded signal from an auxiliary input.
Such as a length of track isolated prior to a signal, in which the signal aspect (Stop, Go etc) provides a a code to the decoder.

The existing alternatives (with my limited capability) are just too hard.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Online H0  
#50 Posted : 11 September 2015 07:30:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Of course, the programmer MDT/3 is only useable when the decoder is not installed in the locomotive.
It seems the new (forthcoming) mDT can be used like the current mDT: with USB flash memory and CS2.
If the decoder is in the loco, use the CS2 to make the changes.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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