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Offline dominator  
#1 Posted : 24 August 2015 03:23:25(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Hi. first post for me.
Years ago I started buying a few digital locos, even though I had the old analogue system from the 50"s. I was told they would run in analogue so no worries. I read somewhere that the older blue transformers could ruin the digital, so I made the decision I had to get the right controls. I never used them much, but preferred to just look at the collection and run the older locos on the circuit.

I was fortunate enough to buy an old unused Delta Starter system complete. This system works great with the loco that came with the system, but I tried 4 of my digital locs and none of them worked. One of the Delta locos ran flat out on 2 of the settings, [ I think 24 and 60 ].

Have I buggered them.

Dominator
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline 3rail4life  
#2 Posted : 24 August 2015 05:10:10(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post


Have I buggered them.

Dominator


I doubt it but you never know, have you set the locomotives to the any of the five supported delta addresses? they can be viewed here:

delta decoder addresses

it sounds like the one running full speed is set for analog operation.

welcome to the forum,

Gordon




Offline dominator  
#3 Posted : 24 August 2015 06:33:25(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Thanks Gordon. I was just talking to a friend who replaced the reverse unit on my F-800. The reverse unit stuffed out about 18 years ago and I was advised to fit an electronic one. I was sold a delta decoder ( I think) for the price of the electronic reverse unit. A year or so later, the idler gears stuffed up, and finally about 2 years ago, I was able to sort through Marklin parts list to find a similar 18 tooth gear. I got a set of 3 from Walthers and got the loco fixed, but.. The reverse unit would not let the loco go. My friend then removed the electronic unit and put in the later analogue reveres unit. He told me the 15 years of no use was not good for these electronics.

I set the one running full speed on 2 of the Delta settings [ 24 and 60 I think ] and it went like hell on both.

What is your opinion on this. Most of my stuff lays hidden away and not used. Is it common for decoders to give up when not used. This actually pisses me off if that is the case.

I have been an avid supporter of Marklin since 1957 when my dad bought me a used set with 3 locos. I have gradually built the collection up over time.
Dominator.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 24 August 2015 07:33:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
What is your opinion on this.
If we knew the ref. numbers of your digital locos we would have a better idea which decoders they have and whether you should be able to get them running with a Delta Control.


Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Is it common for decoders to give up when not used.
Not in my experience. I once bought a Delta loco that had been used in analogue mode only (according to the seller) and the decoder failed in digital operation. So in my experience it rarely happens.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 24 August 2015 11:32:04(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Gordon. I was just talking to a friend who replaced the reverse unit on my F-800. The reverse unit stuffed out about 18 years ago and I was advised to fit an electronic one. I was sold a delta decoder ( I think) for the price of the electronic reverse unit. A year or so later, the idler gears stuffed up, and finally about 2 years ago, I was able to sort through Marklin parts list to find a similar 18 tooth gear. I got a set of 3 from Walthers and got the loco fixed, but.. The reverse unit would not let the loco go. My friend then removed the electronic unit and put in the later analogue reveres unit. He told me the 15 years of no use was not good for these electronics.

I set the one running full speed on 2 of the Delta settings [ 24 and 60 I think ] and it went like hell on both.

What is your opinion on this. Most of my stuff lays hidden away and not used. Is it common for decoders to give up when not used. This actually pisses me off if that is the case.

I have been an avid supporter of Marklin since 1957 when my dad bought me a used set with 3 locos. I have gradually built the collection up over time.
Dominator.


Hi 'Dominator',

Your post is a bit confusing but perhaps I'm reading it wrong?

First you state that the reverse unit on your F-800 was replaced and I read it as you being advised to fit 'an electronic one' - I am assuming you mean an actual electronic reverse unit the type of which were available for a few short years on more advanced models, but bear in mind this was the pre-Digital era so we are talking early-80's and older.

But reading on you say you were sold a Delta Decoder for the price of the electronic reverse unit.

And then in the comment about replacing the gears, you say "the reverse unit would not let the loco go" - I can't make any sense of this. It no longer has a reverse unit does it? And can you clarify what you mean by "would not let the loco go"?

Reading on, you say your friend removed the electronic unit and put in the "later" analogue reverse unit. But an Analogue (ie the traditional mechanical common style) reverse is the oldest of them all.

Phew, yep, I'm confused as heck. But I'm sure it's easily explained?? Confused

So just to be absolutely sure I understand you, the F-800 has a Delta Decoder correct? - do you happen to know exactly which version? Or can you post a couple of clear photos of the Decoder to help us?

As for the comment about Decoders giving up when not used. I would take that with a grain of salt frankly. It is true that some electronic devices do suffer from extended periods of non-use, mainly because of Electrolytic Capacitors drying out, but the Marklin Decoders do not have any Capacitors of this style. I suggest more likely would be a Loco that has been left sitting for years and years, the drive train has seized up and then the poor Decoder simply overheats trying to drive it.

We are seeing this even with relatively modern Loco's and the story has been told here many times about stubborn locos needing some 'encouragement' (ie "percussive maintenance") to break the grip of old hardened lubricants. For this reason alone an annual run of your Loco's would be a good preventive measure.

But let's not assume too much until we know for certain what you have otherwise we may advise you incorrectly.

Look forward to helping you out once we know the details. Clarify about your other Loco's also and I'm sure we can sort those out as well.

Regards

Cookee


Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline dominator  
#6 Posted : 24 August 2015 11:56:39(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Gordon. I was just talking to a friend who replaced the reverse unit on my F-800. The reverse unit stuffed out about 18 years ago and I was advised to fit an electronic one. I was sold a delta decoder ( I think) for the price of the electronic reverse unit. A year or so later, the idler gears stuffed up, and finally about 2 years ago, I was able to sort through Marklin parts list to find a similar 18 tooth gear. I got a set of 3 from Walthers and got the loco fixed, but.. The reverse unit would not let the loco go. My friend then removed the electronic unit and put in the later analogue reveres unit. He told me the 15 years of no use was not good for these electronics.

I set the one running full speed on 2 of the Delta settings [ 24 and 60 I think ] and it went like hell on both.

What is your opinion on this. Most of my stuff lays hidden away and not used. Is it common for decoders to give up when not used. This actually pisses me off if that is the case.

I have been an avid supporter of Marklin since 1957 when my dad bought me a used set with 3 locos. I have gradually built the collection up over time.
Dominator.


Hi 'Dominator',

Your post is a bit confusing but perhaps I'm reading it wrong?

First you state that the reverse unit on your F-800 was replaced and I read it as you being advised to fit 'an electronic one' - I am assuming you mean an actual electronic reverse unit the type of which were available for a few short years on more advanced models, but bear in mind this was the pre-Digital era so we are talking early-80's and older.

But reading on you say you were sold a Delta Decoder for the price of the electronic reverse unit.

And then in the comment about replacing the gears, you say "the reverse unit would not let the loco go" - I can't make any sense of this. It no longer has a reverse unit does it? And can you clarify what you mean by "would not let the loco go"?

Reading on, you say your friend removed the electronic unit and put in the "later" analogue reverse unit. But an Analogue (ie the traditional mechanical common style) reverse is the oldest of them all.

Phew, yep, I'm confused as heck. But I'm sure it's easily explained?? Confused

So just to be absolutely sure I understand you, the F-800 has a Delta Decoder correct? - do you happen to know exactly which version? Or can you post a couple of clear photos of the Decoder to help us?

As for the comment about Decoders giving up when not used. I would take that with a grain of salt frankly. It is true that some electronic devices do suffer from extended periods of non-use, mainly because of Electrolytic Capacitors drying out, but the Marklin Decoders do not have any Capacitors of this style. I suggest more likely would be a Loco that has been left sitting for years and years, the drive train has seized up and then the poor Decoder simply overheats trying to drive it.

We are seeing this even with relatively modern Loco's and the story has been told here many times about stubborn locos needing some 'encouragement' (ie "percussive maintenance") to break the grip of old hardened lubricants. For this reason alone an annual run of your Loco's would be a good preventive measure.

But let's not assume too much until we know for certain what you have otherwise we may advise you incorrectly.

Look forward to helping you out once we know the details. Clarify about your other Loco's also and I'm sure we can sort those out as well.

Regards

Cookee



a
Hi Cookee & Tom, ref the F-800, the "electronic" reverse unit or whatever it was, was fitted in about 1999. The idler gears between the drive wheels shat themselves in about 2001. Approx. 2 years ago, I managed to find and fit new gears. When I went to test the loco. I could not get it to run. A later type analogue reverse unit [ single pulse and with no jerking ] was fitted to it about 2 years ago and it runs sweetly now. This loco had done huge mileage and I had made up oversize axels for it in about 1975. The idler gears were suspect at that time.
That is not the issue now, I just mentioned it because of the comment about old unused electronic units failing through lack of use..

The 4 locos I tried to get going on delta, all worked well on analogue, and I have been told I lubricate my locos too much so it isn't dry oil that is causing the problem.

the loco numbers are 3756, 37882, 37645 and 33185. I think it was the 3756 that seemed to run on the 24 and 670 position like it was still on analogue.
Hope that helps.
Dominator

Edited by user 25 August 2015 00:03:38(UTC)  | Reason: spelling mistakes

Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline dominator  
#7 Posted : 28 August 2015 00:24:56(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Looks like I don't have a problem. I presumed the writing on the Decoder indicated the direction the switches were in. I was obviously looking at the switch block upside down. Only one of the switch boxes had tiny markings on it and when I putt on 2 of glasses, I saw the numbers.
Thanks for your replies. Got most of the locos going last night.
All the best.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dominator
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 28 August 2015 10:09:09(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
This has happened to me before as well. The writing on those DIP switches is really tiny!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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