A mysterious short circuit!

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A mysterious short circuit! - Transformer overload

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Akil Elewa		#1 Posted : 20 July 2015 19:37:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/07/2015(UTC) Posts: 6 Location: England, London		Hello Guys, I need help please... I have just finished setting up the last 10% of the catenary wires over my track plan 3 from 50 years ago and the lights went out [ even without a locomotive on the track] , transformer cutting out and the trains both using catenary wire and track source electricity are very erratic...I went over the wires from the second hand feeder masts [ were working fine yesterday and no new ones today] and over the light circuit connections and cannot find the source of the short circuit / over load...!! I have used second hand masts and second hand catenary wires which I have just received today...is it possible to have a defective mast or catenary wires?..everything was working fine yesterday... I have changed the track section with the red and brown wire, individually isolated the catenary and the light circuit and could not identify the source of the problem... Very Frustrated... Grateful for any help I can get.. Thanks


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mike c		#2 Posted : 20 July 2015 20:38:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 7,890 Location: Montreal, QC		First question… Are you using M, K or C Track? Are you using the same transformer for both the track and the catenary? If so, is it possible that you reversed the brown and the red leads at some point, creating a short? The first thing to do would be to disconnect the red lead from the track (middle rail) and test the layout with only the brown and red for the catenary connected. Are there still any issues? If yes, then there is probably some connect between the live and the return (ground). You should check the feeder masts and check each mast to ensure that the metal backbone of the mast is isolated from the base plate which is clipped on to the track. Make sure that the base plate for each catenary mast is straight and that it is not coming into contact with the centre rail as it passes under the track section. Do you have a separate track connection for the brown (return) for the catenary circuit? If you are using separate transformers, make sure that the plugs to the wall are inserted so that all transformers are in phase. Make sure that you don't have a locomotive where the catenary/track switch is not properly positioned. On some older locos, it was possible to bridge the two if the switch was not completely thrown in a particular direction. Also check to see whether the lights are properly connected with the live being conducted by the wire and the return passing through the metal body. If this is inverted and the light comes into contact with the track, it can cause a short. Regards Mike C


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Akil Elewa		#3 Posted : 20 July 2015 21:50:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/07/2015(UTC) Posts: 6 Location: England, London		Hello Mike C, Thank you for responding. I apologise for the missing information. I use M track and use the same transformer for track and catenary. When I said the lights are out I was referring to the lights on the track stops and junction switches, all yellow wires connected to yellow on transformer.. I only have one brown for track, all catenary feeding masts are single red...... I tried with the track red out and still have issue.. I looked at all the masts...backbone and base look the same and the bases that clip on the track are straight.. I can hear the transformer clicking ..the safety mechanism? I will keep checking Thanks again Best Wishes Akil


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witzlerh		#4 Posted : 20 July 2015 22:12:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 417 Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada		Yes a clicking transformer is dealing with a short circuit. I try to have "zones" that I can quickly isolate. Failing that, you will have to gradually disconnect what you recently connected until you find the source of the problem. The feeder masts need to have the wire in good condition. if there is any abrasion, then it will short out. I have a feeder mast where I will have to replace the wire as it is worn through where it enters the mast section. disconnect catenary to isolate feeder masts and then turn off the feeder mast one at a time. The offending source will show up. Then you can focus on that zone to determine which component is grounding out. Be methodical and not rush. This goes for installation and troubleshooting. If you are losing patience, take a break and return to it later.
		Harald CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6


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Akil Elewa		#5 Posted : 20 July 2015 22:22:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/07/2015(UTC) Posts: 6 Location: England, London		Eureka... The culprit was the track stop: the bulb is held in place and more importantly the electricity reaches it by a metal piece on the underside of the track stop ..This is held in place by a screw at the back of the track stop..This metal piece slipped and was causing the short circuit when it touched the side of the track stop..All looks OK from the back and from the top ...Must look on the underside to see the slippage...5 seconds job to release the screw, move the metal piece to the correct position then tighten the screws...and 20 minutes to put the catenary and masts back.. Thank you for your help..it has encouraged me to find a fault rather than blame the transformer etc.. Best Wishes Akil

1 user liked this useful post by Akil Elewa		Ken Mitchell
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Akil Elewa		#6 Posted : 20 July 2015 22:26:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/07/2015(UTC) Posts: 6 Location: England, London		Originally Posted by: witzlerh Yes a clicking transformer is dealing with a short circuit. I try to have "zones" that I can quickly isolate. Failing that, you will have to gradually disconnect what you recently connected until you find the source of the problem. The feeder masts need to have the wire in good condition. if there is any abrasion, then it will short out. I have a feeder mast where I will have to replace the wire as it is worn through where it enters the mast section. disconnect catenary to isolate feeder masts and then turn off the feeder mast one at a time. The offending source will show up. Then you can focus on that zone to determine which component is grounding out. Be methodical and not rush. This goes for installation and troubleshooting. If you are losing patience, take a break and return to it later. Hello, Thank you for the advice..I was dismantling all what I have installed today..heartbreaking...then something pointed me to the track stops and I found that two of them have slipped plate [the one connecting electricity to the bulb]...50 years old pieces but now going strong again.. Thanks again Best Wishes Akil

1 user liked this useful post by Akil Elewa		witzlerh
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